#dev 2024-03-26

2024-03-26 UTC
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[tantek] [KevinMarks]++ thanks for the nested quote example. You're right that's in the context of a larger article, and I was looking for a quote post of a quote post, but it's at least adjacent.
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Loqi [KevinMarks] has 19 karma in this channel over the last year (35 in all channels)
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[tantek] hmm, I may need to write a new line-by-line processor to actually support thinks like nested ">" for nested blockquotes, and at that point, I might as well figure out paragraphs and headings as well
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[tantek] is there a best practice for adding soft line breaks to a large nested quote that requires explicit wrapping so that the "> " show up at the beginning of each line of the quote? one trailing space on the end of each line to indicate a soft line-break is what I'm thinking, and maybe soft-wrapping at last soft-wrap opportunity before 70 chars on a line, including the leading "> ", or if no such opportunities then breaking at the 68th character
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[tantek] from the source
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[KevinMarks] I think Gmail reflows as a blockquote in that context
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[tantek] Gmail is actually really bad at this and somehow attaches extra semantics to plain text so you never know if you copy&paste and delete a ">" character if it will actually make it NOT look like it's part of a quote, or vice versa, if adding a ">" character will actually make it look like part of a quote or just literal text. It's really unpredictable and horrible to use for plain text emails with ">" quoting.
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[tantek] capturing my questions / brainstorms for now on the wiki
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[Erik] [gRegorLove] It would? That would be great. Checking that out, thanks!
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capjamesg [KevinMarks] Do you know of any good reads on graph theory applied to computer science?
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[schmarty] probably relevant beyond #indieweb-dev but definitely IndieWeb-related in terms of private feeds, etc. https://www.404media.co/email/4e6c0b81-03f6-4370-8fc8-98dab30bfd45/
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[tantek] what is a capability URL?
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Loqi A Capability URL (AKA hard to guess URL or secret URL) is a URL that provides access to a resource to anyone who has the URL without an explicit login https://indieweb.org/capability_URL
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[tantek] [schmarty] could be worth adding to that ^ as an example or perhaps to /Ghost as a 3rd party feature
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[aciccarello] I've never heard that term before
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[aciccarello] Looking at the w3 pages now
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[aciccarello] What distinguishes it from unlisted URLs?
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[tantek] what is an unlisted URL?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "unlisted URL" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "unlisted URL is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] 🤷‍♂️
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[aciccarello] What is unlisted?
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Loqi unlisted are publicly visible posts that are not included in a homepage or feed(s), and are typically excluded from site search features and broader web search services https://indieweb.org/unlisted
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[aciccarello] unlisted << [[capability URL]]
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Loqi ok, I added "[[capability URL]]" to the "See Also" section of /unlisted https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=94370&oldid=86124
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[tantek] I wonder if "publicly visible posts" there should instead be "posts accessible without login"
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[tantek] unlisted URL is /unlisted
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Loqi ok
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gRegor Haven't read the spec, but I think capability URLs are supposed to be hard to guess, vs "unlisted URLs" could be any path, even if it's obvious, that you don't link to
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[aciccarello] It seems like the name "capability" has in mind actions like password resets
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[KevinMarks] Duncan Watts's Six Degrees is quite good - I preferred it to Barabasi's Linked
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[KevinMarks] Capability often implies a URL that causes an action, ie something that you POST to rather than GET
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[tantek] we may need to gather some UI terminology that is used for these URLs
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[tantek] aciccarello, the password reset link (or one-time email sign-in link) is an interesting example, those are also ephemeral
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[aciccarello] "Capability URLs should expire. For example, it may be suitable to have a capability URL that can only be accessed once, or one that expires after a week. Password reset links should expire after the password has been successfully changed, or when the email address on the account changes."
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[tantek] there is also the way Flickr did (does?) private access URLs for folks without logins, where it sets a cookie for some set of otherwise limited access URLs (like photos in a photo album), and you can browse around them without logging in
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[tantek] Flickr limited access URLs do not expire until explicitly disabled/deleted by the person who created them
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[Joe_Crawford] Based on the definition an RSS feed url which is secured with a token or attached to iCal feeds would be capability URLs.
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aaronpk that w3c definition of capability URL always seemed quite academic to me
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[aciccarello] Those are actually mentioned https://w3ctag.github.io/capability-urls/#google-calendar https://w3ctag.github.io/capability-urls/#flickr-images
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[tantek] "capability" makes sense as part of the name when using the URL *does* afford some other feature / ability, like changing your password, logging in, or browsing *other* URLs that would otherwise require login
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[tantek] the phrase "private address" in the UI for Google Calendar shown here https://w3ctag.github.io/capability-urls/#google-calendar makes sense to me along with the warnings.
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[tantek] one possible distinction is URL permanence semantics
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[tantek] capability URLs do not promise any permanence, in fact expiring or resetting them is a feature
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[tantek] I would expect "unlisted" URLs to persist
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gRegor makes sense
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[tantek] capability URL << similar or at least adjacent conceptually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_security
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Loqi ok, I added "similar or at least adjacent conceptually: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_security" to the "See Also" section of /capability_URL https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=94374&oldid=94373
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btrem I have a site planning question. It'll take a bit of explaining, so if I ask here, it'll have to be over several messages. I find irc a difficult forum for complicated questions. Is there a better way to do this?
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gRegor A note on your site? Maybe unlisted? :)
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gRegor Or a gist on github maybe
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gRegor what is indiewebforum
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Loqi IndieWebForum is an experimental place for people to ask questions and start discussions at a slower pace than in chat https://indieweb.org/IndieWebForum
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gRegor There's also that new experiment^
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btrem Hmm, I found indieforums. Last post there was two years ago. :/
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btrem indiewebforum.eu looks a bit more up to date.
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btrem Not much going on there, either. 7 "introduction" posts. Only two questions.
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capjamesg The .eu one just started.
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capjamesg It has an active owner.
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capjamesg If you leave a note you should see a response. And if you don’t I’ll respond 🙂
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btrem What? No indieauth?!
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btrem For shame! :-D
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mahboubine what's the backend of this forum?
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mahboubine it looks beautiful
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[tantek] what is indiewebforum
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Loqi IndieWebForum is an experimental place for people to ask questions and start discussions at a slower pace than in chat https://indieweb.org/IndieWebForum
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[tantek] ^ see that mahboubine
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btrem Screw it. I'll ask here in irc, but in #indieweb. Hopefully, no one gets annoyed. And Loqi doesn't chastise me.
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[tantek] if you stick to user features you should be ok in #indieweb
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btrem Off I go.
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[tantek] if you find a need to mention any plumbing, protocols, formats, jargon, then keep in in #indieweb-dev
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btrem It's mostly a question of how to avoid repeating myself, but not losing details. The longish question is now in the main channel. If it requires some technical discussions, I'll move it back here.
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[KevinMarks] on the unlisted/capability discussion, should we define 'visibility' for the category they're instances of? Currently it's pointed to the micropub extension, but it seems to be the broader term, per this discussion, and could link back to the micropub example https://twitter.com/FreyaHolmer/status/1772615971171148242
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[aciccarello] btrem Here's my 11ty code for that section https://github.com/aciccarello/ciccarello.me/blob/main/_includes/mentions.html
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[aciccarello] The email href includes the some prefilled content that's url encoded
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[aciccarello] I'm using liquid but I bet there's a nunjucks way to do that too
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[KevinMarks] yep, it's a pipe filter https://mozilla.github.io/nunjucks/templating.html#urlencode
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btrem [aciccarello]++ thanks, I'll have a look. Liquid and nunjucks are different, but not /that/ different. Should be easy to port if I want to.
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Loqi [aciccarello] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (25 in all channels)
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] it's called "audience"
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[KevinMarks] https://www.404media.co/email/4e6c0b81-03f6-4370-8fc8-98dab30bfd45/
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[KevinMarks] no, 'visibility' is what micropub, mastodon, wordpress etc call the post's public/private/unlisted state
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[tantek] yeah visibility is not it
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] that post was shared by [schmarty] earlier today, it's what kicked off the capability URLs conversation https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2024-03-26#t1711464843787400
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[KevinMarks] what is visibility?
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Loqi Micropub extensions are Micropub protocol-related features that are proposed, prototyped, or implemented in Micropub clients and servers beyond the official Micropub specification https://indieweb.org/visibility
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[KevinMarks] it's not that
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[tantek] it actually literally is, per what you said "the post's public/private/unlisted state" — follow the link, it's to a sectino
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[tantek] section* even
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[KevinMarks] yes, but calling that 'visibility' is not just what micropub does, but what alot of other things do to
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[tantek] better reason: it deserves its own top level page that provides a user-centric definition rather than purely a Micropub extension
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[KevinMarks] yes, that's what I meant
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