#indieweb 2025-05-25

2025-05-25 UTC
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[morganm] Just inspired by Scout's post about maintaining online relationships such as this place in lieu of in person opportunities I think its a really really common quandary of modern life trying to balance how many or any less connected relationships to have because our brains were not really optimized for this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number. I think its fair and gentle enough to say that to many people by virtue of having our own
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[morganm] websites we are already considered pretty neuro-interesting compared to many people
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[morganm] ALSO- Glitch? Shutting down Web Apps? Like Costco removing its $2 hot dogs or something? What else does it really do 😐 ?
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[morganm] Im sure they get hammered with bots, and the infra around is not trivial
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[social] [morganm] in the last sliver of 2000 I started posting to my blog in Blogger. It was mostly a link blog of sorts with many thoughts throughout the day for the daily lozenge post. In later 2001 I moved to my own crafted CMS for blogging where I could post to and have as many categories / tags applied to the post as I wanted and capture the type of post (blog, essay, or journal - 99.99% of posts were blog posts), plus add location where I posted.
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[social] But, the magical thing was when I added RSS and had a few people checking it when I mentioned it in communities and Google surfaced it, people of like interested did drive-bys and left comments. Conversations started in comments, emails, invites to communities and forums. The posting on one’s own site was an attractor for other who are neurointeresting with curiosities and willingness to explore and talk about things of common interest.
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[social] together. The pages we post on our sites and bring our sites to other’s screens and people are closer. But, the bringing a page from a server we created and posted to some other person’s (and people’s) screen(s) leads to bringing people together.
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[social] In 2002 I stumbled into a Model of Attraction - https://vanderwal.net/essays/moa1.html. It was a replacement of the navigation metaphor for getting to things on the web and flipped the thinking to attracting things to your screen. You put a search term into Google and you are attracting things related to that term or search phrase. You click on a link because of what it will attract to your screen. The attraction is bringing things of interest
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[social] If what we are building is ours and something we own and create, there is less between us and others. We get more person to person over time. The neurointeresting join and connect.
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[social] I have a tiny page about and linking to things around The Model of Attraction - https://vanderwal.net/essays/moa/index.php
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Loqi [social]: that's a lot of dev jargon! RSS, PHP... can you move to #indieweb-dev?
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[social] @Loqi it is about this focus of indieweb, it is in the right spot
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[tantek] It's not though. Both of those are plumbing and nothing to do with user features for owning your identity, content, reading experience etc.
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[tantek] Most people who are hooked on posting on social media have never heard of either of those and frankly seeing them makes them think ugh this is not for me
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[tantek] jargon--
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Loqi jargon has -1 karma over the last year
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[morganm] Theres a few different topics or points to potentially spin from, but basically I more and more return to the fact that our society and species is basically still reeling and reacting to the overflow of "stuff". Thoughtful and kind people may be more inclined to curate with an RSS feed, leave thoughtful notes, that sort of thing, but basically all of us collectively and individually are having content and "stuff" (I cant even use the word
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[morganm] information without an * anymore) at us at a rate thats huge
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[tantek] Why not just say "feed" [morganm] ? The jargon doesn't add any readability (worsens it) nor additional comprehension
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[morganm] Would you prefer Feed to RSS? In my head the word RSS implies a meaning adjacent any jargon usage. I understand the longstanding goal to promote reducing jargon though
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[morganm] I could elaborate with a car analogy heh
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[morganm] Like one or two or three usages of a term is acceptable jargon usage, if someone says they are a "Chevy person" when they mean to say "I like a particular brand of car" its when its whole paragraphs of stuff that each require like 5-6 searches to decipher I see the anti jargon impulse
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[morganm] (I myself have posted such paragraphs here before heh)
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[morganm] Thomas's post even with some jargon or tech phrasing to me was a thoughtful reflection on good qualities of internet connectedness
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[morganm] Adjacent to this groups philosophy and goals I see it as an ongoing conversation about what it means to be online and prosocial which to my mind (having read too much internet over the years possibly) is increasingly facing the facts of AI slop, bots, sometimes bad actors, nation state propaganda, just to name a few things. We just gotta keep the torch alive, own some of our own content and mindshare online I guess
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[social] [tantek] I don’t fully agree, IndieWeb is plumbing, but also with personal creation the social scales of interaction are far different than in large social platforms. It is like the difference of inviting someone to your home and meeting someone in a stadium with thousands of others. There is a techinical side that is core, but also a social interaction side.
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[social] Shutting comments or moving them to external feedback (I love webmentions for this and part of my updating the code is finally being able to enable webmentions).
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[morganm] Sometime in the next few weeks Im thinking of adding web mentions and some markup to http://morganwebdev.org
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[social] I agree many who are in the large social platforms don’t know about personal sites. One of my friends from grad school who is now the podcast producer for a large DC think tanks podcasts asked at one of our regular dinners, “blogs are still a thing?”
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[social] Today I ran across my 2014 blog post about some rework in the underpinnings of my site I was doing and called out a hope to add web mentions and other IndieWeb elements. The referral ID on my homepage may have been about as far as I got (pointing to GitHub and/or WordPress and rel=me).
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[tantek] Nope IndieWeb is not plumbing. That's pretty clear in the principles etc. yes we have various bits of common plumbing but they are all purely a means to an ends. We could swap out all the plumbing tomorrow and everything indieweb would still be indieweb
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[tantek] What are principles?
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Loqi 🗽 The IndieWeb Community is largely based on principles that we practice and aspire to, such as own your data and remember to have fun! https://indieweb.org/principles
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[morganm] of mythical cursed device
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[morganm] As Ive got older I have more internally adopted a metaphor which is weirdly economics-y sounding, that people make baskets of choices. You go to a market, you choose a selection of items in your budget at any given trip, and some of these may be healthier and less healthy. For example, Tantek, you are still the controller of the almost mythical one letter X/former twitter handle. In a game like Skyrim or some other RPG, this would be some sort
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[morganm] I work on my own website a bit, but I still go to even dark places like Linkedin to see occasionally "whats out there"
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[social] [tantek] I misunderstood your plumbing or “those are plumbing” reference above. My bad.
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[tantek] What is plumbing
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Loqi Plumbing in the context of the IndieWeb, refers to all the underlying code, backend setup, protocols, formats that is all merely there to support the design and user experience of a site, the actual user visible and interactive parts https://indieweb.org/plumbing
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[tantek] [morganm] http://x.com/t *is* a _mythical cursed device_ 😆 — it still shows up on Google first page of results for "t". If you google search from Europe, it is the top result.
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[tantek] Because of that, it is like a cursed magical object which the user is unable to get rid of
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[social] I have my two sites I run both now on my host and control both finally. But, I also manually syndicate out to LinkedIn and Medium for longer posts and other venues for shorter places.
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[social] er, “venues for shorter pieces.”
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[tantek] It's also now (almost) the shortest URL to find me (http://ttk.me is one char shorter)
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Loqi [preview] Tantek Çelik
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[tantek] [social] am definitely curious to better understand your specific LinkedIn syndication use-cases
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[social] I had http://ifi.nu for a long stretch, but never used it and it got quite expensive for the yearly fee.
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[tantek] That would be worth documenting on the wiki
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[tantek] Do you get much traffic from LinkedIn or Medium links to your original posts?
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[social] Okay. The reason I post longer more professional focussed pieces to LinkedIn and Medium is they focus on things that can draw in costumers or employers. Both have more traffic to them than my own site. Both link back to my site when the canonical version exists. I do get traffic to my site that is source from the other sites, but it also generates conversations around working with others. I use the other sites as attraction nodes as a tractor
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[social] I would get 20 to 40 new people to my own site from posting to the large traffic sites.
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[social] My sites have outlasted many other external sites I’ve manually syndicated to over the years, so having my own content on my own sites is very important. But, the bigger sites have more traffic and “people walking by”. I get more comments and direct messages from other sites than my own.
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[social] feed back to me.
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[morganm] One thing which feels a little surveillance-y minded is that I think when I create my personal website presence Im looking to build rapport with people who might search me up, based on a name or a handle, and basically to paint the best picture possible in a few minutes they might search. I guess what Im saying is that the stuff I put up is sort of catering to some unforseen visitor, who I dont really know, in a sense this is a sanitized
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[morganm] version of myself that makes it online basically
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[morganm] Ive thought way too much about the basic About Me page which is my first google result for my name
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[morganm] Not really keeping up the principle remember to have fun as much as trying to fulfill some purpose or business need
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[social] But, when I blog I mostly am writing to explain things I found or have been thinking and working through. I’m often looking for others to connect around those. I have around 140 different categories for things on my http://vanderwal.net blog some are related, but an about page around that expanse gets odd.
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[social] I really don’t like my About Me page as I have a few different contexts and domains I play and work in. Others think those domains don’t overlap nor interrelate so I couldn’t know it. That has left me with an About Page that is quite out of date (but my LinkedIn is too).
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[social] My homepage (it doesn’t have my blog posts on it, which I may add with an upcoming revision) and sort of works as a high level about page.
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Loqi [preview] Thomas Vander Wal
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[morganm] I currently register these domains/ these are my personal websites:
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[morganm] https://www.morganwebdev.org/
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[morganm] https://whatcompublichospital.org/
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[morganm] The public hospital one has been my hobby-cause for a while. It comes up in first page results for several search phrases related to Hospitals in my area in the USA and has been the opener for many good interactions with people passionate about healthcare in our basically woeful system.
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[morganm] https://morganwebdev.com/
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[tantek] [social]++ good way of expressing it. I'll see if I can write something up for /LinkedIn
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Loqi [social] has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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[social] [tantek] thanks. It feels like the larger sites are like putting a billboard along a freeway to get them to my home.
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[tantek] It's good to document the use case and reasons so we can remember to re-assess them and disconnect when they disappear
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[social] Agree
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Halian I need to make a personal site at some point, but I don't have anything to put there ._.
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lain` pictures of geese
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[Jo] pictures of geese are always good
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perryflynn Happy towel day.
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doesnm !kick osvald785
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Loqi osvald785 joined 29136421 minutes ago and can no longer be kicked this way
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aaronpk i took care of it