#meta 2019-10-29

2019-10-29 UTC
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[tantek] Did you test the ICS feed?
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] if you’re awake, I’ve got a first draft blog post about our Redecentralize session written (mostly on the flight) summarizing in prose what we discussed
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[tantek] I should probably add a note in the source of the event templates of what to regression test for
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Loqi yea!
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gRegorLove Good point, I wonder if it's in the h2vx conversion of the events
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gRegorLove The template update didn't change the parse. This is pre-template update: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20191029013613732
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[tantek] Then I’d revert it
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[tantek] Changes thy don’t do anything should be avoided
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[tantek] Blog post for review posted in chat
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gRegorLove I think I misread the template update, let me look at it more closely
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@t #Redecentralize 2019 Session: IndieWeb Decentralized Standards and Methods: https://tantek.com/b/53H1 (twitter.com/_/status/1189002042854928384)
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aaronpk ugh that snippet is such a mess. even just now looking at it it's super not obvious what the parsed value is supposed to be
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aaronpk at some point the effort to avoid duplication of data at the expense of readability is just not worth it
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aaronpk it's like reading those programming challenge solutions where you're just like sure that's technically more efficient, but now nobody can debug that code
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[tantek] what snippet?
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@planetmozilla Tantek Çelik: #Redecentralize 2019 Session: IndieWeb Decentralized Standards and Methods https://ift.tt/335hC33 (twitter.com/_/status/1189017037756084224)
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@RSSFeedsCloud Tantek Çelik: #Redecentralize 2019 Session: IndieWeb Decentralized Standards and Methods https://rssfeeds.cloudsite.builders/2019/10/28/tantek-celik-redecentralize-2019-session-indieweb-decentralized-standards-and-methods/ https://t.co/maeAa6RjLw (twitter.com/_/status/1189022484504428545)
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@murderofcrows HWC Wednesday at Wayward Coffeehouse. I can’t make it, Steve will officiate. #HWC #Seattle #IndieWeb @timswast @dangerdave @SteveStreza @altsalt @funwhilelost @rrrrrrrix @codynhat @phedhex (twitter.com/_/status/1189022856207884288)
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@murderofcrows Join us for an evening of IndieWeb personal site demos and discussions! (twitter.com/_/status/1189031044722364416)
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[tantek] cool
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@schestowitz Tantek Çelik: #Redecentralize 2019 Session: #IndieWeb #Decentralized Standards and Methods https://tantek.com/2019/301/b1/redecentralize-indieweb-standards-methods (twitter.com/_/status/1189041500233097217)
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aaronpk The one Gregor posted above
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gRegorLove Ok, removed the title attributes for the purpose of the snippets and added comments: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20191029050640468
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gRegorLove and snippet of the current version of the template: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20191029050708746
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gRegorLove A quick test looks like <time> is supported now in templates, so maybe we can move away from using VCP
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gRegorLove 🤞
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@nhoizey My talk about #POSSE at #ParisWeb used quotes from @brad_frost , @accessiblestef, @aworkinglibrary, @STPo, @SaraSoueidan, @mozilla, @ElieSl, @adactio and I talked about @indiewebcamp and @eleven_ty Thanks for your wise words I’ve been able to build upon! https://talks.nicolas-hoizey.com/AXGNM8/ne-vous-laissez-plus-deposseder-de-vos-contenus (twitter.com/_/status/1189084482348994560)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ There's https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnooshu.github.io%2F (monocle is an indieweb feed reader) and http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnooshu.github.io%2F&html=&pretty=on which gives a json parse. You don't have any feed level properties - you could put p-name and p-summary at that level, and put a p-author h-card there (twitter.com/_/status/1189102616380428288)
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@Borisson It looks like we will get @swentel back into core development with getting webmention and the indieweb to drupal https://t.co/BBZdlk6g1L (twitter.com/_/status/1189105832300023808)
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@cashbuilderss @wencesg says: "we're facing the unethical evolution of many social platforms, but there is a movement called the #IndieWeb that understands you're done with others owning your content and your identity!" https://buff.ly/32LLQbb #startup (twitter.com/_/status/1189106605700386816)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Also, http://chat.indieweb.org is good for this - available as Web, slack, irc and matrix. There are #microformats and #dev channels to help (twitter.com/_/status/1189108647592415232)
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@Joulse_ The IndieWeb Movement: Owning Your Data and Being the Change You Want to See in the Web https://www.jvt.me/posts/2019/10/20/indieweb-talk/ (twitter.com/_/status/1189139319132438528)
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@svanlooy Homebrew Website Club Berlin, tomorrow, 6:30pm. Information here: https://roderick.dk/2019/10/29/homebrew-website-club-2019-10-30/ #homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/1189149269544058885)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+49) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2019/Berlin2 (-13) "/* RSVP */ no longer coming soon" (view diff)
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[tantek] gRegorLove aaronpk we CANNOT move away from using VCP because it's still the simplest (least easy to screw up) way of marking up the events so that they're both h-event and hCalendar which is required for the Add to Calendar feed on the Events page via H2VX
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[tantek] I have to ask once again that you regression test *any* event template changes with H2VX. Like even more preferable if you're actively subscribed to the ICS feed from /Events in your own personal calendar program (it should show up as its own toggleable calendar) and thus see changes there
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[tantek] The event templates are not just for wiki viewing, they are for H2VX consumption.
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-10-30-homebrew-website-club () "(-510) de-dup Berlin. going to start dropping some commented out cities that haven't met for 3+ months" (view diff)
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[tantek] authorship is supposed to be spec for consuming code, not general purpose documentation about authors
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[tantek] all the "how to mark up an h-entry with ..." should be in /h-entry
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[tantek] all the "how to markup an h-feed with ..." should be in /h-feed
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[jgmac1106] snarfed shared this which some people find helpful: https://indieweb.org/h-card#Issues
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[jgmac1106] that question comes up a lot where people don't want an h-card in every h-entry and may or may not want in the footer of the article, I have meetings now but will try to take a look later at the h-entry, h-feed articles on the IWC wiki
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[jgmac1106] authorship has a section on "How to Publish" https://indieweb.org/authorship#How_to_publish
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[jgmac1106] and the article is written with publishers and not consumers in mind "if you have an h-card on your website" etc maybe move that section to their respective placers on /h-entry or h-feed?
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[tantek] no I disagree that sharing issues is useful to someone asking "how to" questions
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[tantek] that's only a way to confuse people further with things that may have nothing to do with what they're trying to do
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[tantek] is that not obvious from a learning perspective?
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[jgmac1106] yeah just sharing the links people pass around when folks ask about hiding their author info
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[tantek] not helping
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[jgmac1106] cool if you want to add a section to /h-entry and /h-feed would happily share those with people luckily Maxwell found it helpful https://www.maxwelljoslyn.com/blog/2019/10/28/1 but agree we can make a more accessible resource for folks..well off to meetings
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Loqi With advice from Greg McVerry, Aaron Parecki, and Ryan Barrett, I finished getting this blog set up for subscription using the h-feed microformat, and made other improvements along the way: all pages now have a self-link in the title all pages, not ...
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[tantek] I'm saying don't share links just because other people do, that's not helpful
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[tantek] question whether those links are actually helpful from a beginner's and learning perspective
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[tantek] also even if/when people do get things figured out, they may have still struggled with the documentation that was provided.
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+33) "IWC SF!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-11) "SF to make it fit" (view diff)
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[tantek] !tell [manton] is HWC Austin meeting on 11/13 (normal HWC date), or literally the first Wednesday on 11/6? Trying to get November HWCs mapped out.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /Events (+2) "move past October events to recent" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+1297) "/* 2019 */ add HWC November & December events" (view diff)
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[manton] [tantek] 11/6. We always do first Wednesday in Austin.
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[manton] Related, I have a call scheduled with the IndieWebCamp venue folks in about half an hour and hope to have everything locked down soon.
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gRegorLove excellent. same venue as last year?
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[manton] Ask me again in half an hour. 🙂 But yes, unless something unexpected comes up, that's the plan.
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[tantek] Excited!
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loqi.me created /Bussator (+119) "prompted by jeremycherfas and dfn added by jeremycherfas" (view diff)
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@artlung Independent publishing is always and has always been hard work. Good publications must stop selling to corporations and rich idiots. I know the money is appealing. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1189246021244784642)
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www.bradleyallen.info edited /User:Www.bradleyallen.info (-17) "/* Bradley Allen */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2019/Berlin (+173) "warning go to upcoming IWC Berlin2 because this one come up in Google search results" (view diff)
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[tantek] [Bradley_Allen]
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[tantek] [Bradley_Allen] ++
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Loqi [Bradley_Allen] has 1 karma over the last year
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tantek.com edited /Events (+383) "/* November */ HWC Austin 11/6" (view diff)
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@jevdemon Alternatives to some of these issues exist. Check out #IndieWeb, #Sovrin, #Soild, and DIG at CSAIL. https://cacm.acm.org/opinion/articles/240487-50-years-ago-i-helped-invent-the-internet-how-did-it-go-so-wrong/fulltext (twitter.com/_/status/1189269310201585664)
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[tantek] speaking of authorship ^^^ that article says "by Los Angeles Times". I'm sorry the Los Angeles Times did not invent the internet
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[KevinMarks] #Soild
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[jgmac1106] ... Ummm built by a bunch of rich cis white dudes coming out of "Summer of Love" who could dream of digital utopia since they never had to deal with threat vectors... Plus it was the 60s... Everyone thought the world would change...man...
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[jgmac1106] Not a single mention that a lack of diversity from the start lead to the utopian view and specific design decisions
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[tantek] the world did change, just not in all the ways expected
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[jgmac1106] Yes it did mightily...and still you get the same sentiment in JPBs manifesto some 30 odd years later.
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[jgmac1106] ... All in 50 years... less than one life time...Hard to believe... The change is far from over... And hopefully we remember more voices this go around
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[qubyte] _in cylon voice_ Networks were a bad idea.
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[jgmac1106] Wonder if original article had the correct author and ACM just trading on the name cache of LA Times
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @xor The Web is still there and made of open standards - lots of blogs too. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1189276798539980801)
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[tantek] lots of folks in this thread that would be great to *gently* reach out to (like if you think you're socially awkward or a bull-in-a-china-shop then don't 🙂 ) https://twitter.com/mollylambert/status/1189229640692518912
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@mollylambert RIP blogging we all tried real hard to make the internet good and then corporations and rich idiots destroyed everything a generation of writers tried to build (twitter.com/_/status/1189229640692518912)
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gRegorLove pin13 and php.microformats.io have the lang flag on
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gRegorLove Doesn't appear that xray does, or at lest it doesn't show up in the jf2
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[tantek] jf2 hasn't adopted anything lang attr related, so that makes sense that it wouldn't show up there
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[tantek] it's a different format anyway
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gRegorLove oops, I meant that for -dev
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[tantek] :thumbsup_all:
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[tantek] hmm is there anyone with github repo org access that can monitor the #knownchat channel and delete spam like the link dropped into https://chat.indieweb.org/known/2019-10-27 ? (also wondering if it's possible to add that domain to a Loqi block/kick list)
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[tantek] I've deleted it from the Slack
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aaronpk that spammer quit right after posting the link so it wouldn't have made a difference
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[tantek] adding to a block/kick list would hopefully make difference to it not ending up in the archives / propagating to other networks
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[tantek] adding that domain that is
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aaronpk sure but it's unlikely that it'll appear again anyway
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[tantek] maybe it's whack a mole, however if we see a domain once we may see it again
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[tantek] yeah maybe unlikely. not sure
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[tantek] tempted to propose blocking any domains with *memes* in them 😛
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[jgmac1106] Y U NO no like memes
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[jgmac1106] I didn't meme it on purpose....
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] we were talking about a spam in the Known channel that linked to a domain with "memes" in the name
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@daveloyall ↩️ Didn't read much of this because you kids didn't listen when us old folks of the pre-platform internet told you it would happen. Go ask the #indieweb for solutions. (twitter.com/_/status/1189300846401593344)
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[tantek] lol
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[tantek] wait are we the kids or the old folks? or somewhere in between?
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loqi.me created /how_to_delete_spam_from_the_logs (+35) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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www.bradleyallen.info moved /User:Www.bradleyallen.info to /User:Bradleyallen.info "Remove Www to be less verbose"
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www.bradleyallen.info deleted /User:Bradleyallen.info "Deleted to make way for move from "[[User:Www.bradleyallen.info]]""
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aaronpk well that's not really gonna work
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[KevinMarks] we're gen X, always the ones inbetween
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[tantek] [Bradley_Allen] the way to fix that is to fix your website to not use www., not to mess with the wiki User: pages
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[tantek] what is nowww
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "nowww" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "nowww is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] what is no-www
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Loqi no-www is a movement to deprecate use of "www." at the start of URLs as being redundant, unnecessary, and a waste of resources https://indieweb.org/no-www
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www.bradleyallen.info edited /chat-names (+63) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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[tantek] nowww is /no-www
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /nowww (+19) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] [Bradley_Allen] you really want to do the fix on your site first, otherwise all the edits will still be with your www. username
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bradleyallen [Tantek] Thank you, where do I fix this on my website?
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bradleyallen I think I found out where
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[tantek] [Bradley_Allen] try looking at https://indieweb.org/no-www for how to fix it
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[Bradley_Allen] [tantek] I started with www due to netlify cms caching recommendation, now I’m all about no-www
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[tantek] hmm, do you have a URL to their docs that recommended it? we can document that as an "avoid" on /Netlify
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[Bradley_Allen] Will look for URL after I get my site up again
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[Bradley_Allen] https://www.netlify.com/blog/2017/02/28/to-www-or-not-www/
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[Bradley_Allen] https://docs.netlify.com/domains-https/custom-domains/multiple-domains/#apex-domains-and-www-subdomains
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[Bradley_Allen] Despite their strong recommendation no-www will work fine too
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bradleyallen.info created /Template:bradleyallen (+324) "Created page with "= [http://bradleyallen.info Bradley Allen] = {{Infobox person |name = Bradley Allen |url = https://bradleyallen.info |photo_url = https://bradleyallen.info/images/social-sha..."" (view diff)
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[dougbeal] I think github has similar recomendations for custom domains on Github pages