#indiewebcamp 2012-05-05

2012-05-05 UTC
tantek, davida, brennannovak, singpolyma, danbri and danbri_ joined the channel
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aaronpk I just launched indieauth logins on the indiewebcamp wiki!
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aaronpk Do you think anyone would mind if I disabled OpenID logins now?
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aaronparecki.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-44) (view diff)
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aaronpk apparently I forgot how to design logos
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:IndieAuthLogo100.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (+3) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (+3) (view diff)
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singpolyma aaronpk: just tried the indieauth thing on the wiki. ick
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singpolyma very un-indie
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aaronpk please elaborate
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aaronpk it's an implementation of RelMeAuth, are you familiar with that?
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singpolyma it requires me to have and account with some external big-name provider that I do not own or control
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singpolyma and uses that
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aaronpk true, however your identity is not tied to the provider
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aaronpk since in the end, you are authenticated as yourdomain.com
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aaronpk which means if you want to change which provider you use for authentication, you can, just by changing the links on your home page
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singpolyma sure, I mean, it's better than a "log in with Twitter" button
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aaronpk it's analogous to delegating openid logins to other providers
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singpolyma right, only I can delegate to any OpenID provider
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singpolyma here I can only delegate to a well-known "big name"
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aaronpk yes, that is a limitation because OAuth implementations aren't actually very standardized right now.
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singpolyma sure, because OAuth is explicitly not intended for this use
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aaronpk ah, I see you've already commented on tantek's article on RelMeAuth http://microformats.org/wiki/RelMeAuth
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singpolyma OpenID should almost definitely be supported as at least a fallback, both because it has more traction/support and also because it's more indie
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tantek I agree with OpenID as a fallback
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aaronpk yes, OpenID fallback for indieauth would be good
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tantek aaronpk - it would be great if we could use the IndieAuth plugin as an update / replacement for the OpenID plugin
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tantek I'd like to set that up on microformats.org
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tantek and I bet others wouldn't mind upgrading from the OpenID plugin also
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tantek (mediawiki plugin)
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singpolyma also, I'm not sure what I mean by "fallback", since obviously my OpenID URI is a valid RelMeAuth page
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singpolyma but I would never want to use twitter or github to login if I can help it
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aaronpk tantek: cool, it's currently written as an auth plugin for mediawiki, and integrates pretty seamlessly into the wiki. it actually replaces the default login form instead of adding a special one
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tantek sure - I'm not talking about UI
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tantek I'm saying that if it fails to find any relmeauth providers, then it should jump to the previous OpenID code to attempt to use the URL for OpenID login/discovery etc.
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tantek completely seamlessly - no change to the UI
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tantek singpolyma - I think it makes more sense to prefer RelMeAuth over OpenID since RelMeAuth is easier to setup.
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tantek (for users / IndieWeb site owners)
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singpolyma I think OpenID endpoints should just be considered valid RelMeAuth endpoints (in the way that known OAuth sites are already done as a hack)
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singpolyma that way more providers instantly get support
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singpolyma (like identi.ca)
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singpolyma without having to specialcase everyone
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singpolyma and then indie sites will also work
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tantek oh I see what you mean - rel=me as a method for OpenID discovery
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aaronpk singpolyma: agreed. I will see about adding openid support to indieauth.com
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singpolyma cool
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tantek so if you're rel=me confirmed to a site which then has openid link rels, then use OpenID to validate that identity
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tantek s/validate/authenticate
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Loqi tantek meant to say: so if you're rel=me confirmed to a site which then has openid link rels, then use OpenID to authenticate that identity
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singpolyma tantek: yeah. something like that
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tantek that way the indieweb site owner could choose where it is in the fallback
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aaronpk couldn't you just look for the openid tags on the user's website that they enter? skip any rel=me if that's present?
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tantek aaronpk - no, because then you don't get fallback
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singpolyma aaronpk: well, if the page itself has OpenID rels, I think that counts as "a rel=me confirmed site having OpenID rels"
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singpolyma since a page is confirmed to itself
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tantek better to simply follow the rel=me's in order
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tantek and then, if at some point you find a rel=me to an openid provider, then you can do openid authentication on that
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aaronpk oh I see, so that would mean a user wouldn't have to actually delegate their domain with openid tags
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tantek bingo
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singpolyma yeah
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aaronpk cool
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tantek e.g. I could simply use rel=me to visibly link to http://tantek.myopenid.com/
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tantek rather than having to use invisible cryptic 2-4 <link rel="">s
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singpolyma or an identi.ca profile
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tantek (have always hated that about openid delegation - why so many link rels?)
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singpolyma I just think a page should be considered confirmed to itself, in case the page is itself an OpenID endpoint (such as a WordPress blog self-hosting OpenID)
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tantek singpolyma - how do you detect something as an OpenID endpoint vs. OpenID delegation?
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singpolyma tantek: I wouldn't bother, but you probably can
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singpolyma since the markup is different
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tantek right, how is it different I am asking you
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singpolyma oh, sorry. let me look it up
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tantek and yes - I'd agree that if a site is it's own Oauth or OpenID endpoint, it should be used directly instead of rel=me to an external authenticator
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aaronpk isn't it rel="openid.delegate"
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singpolyma delegations have a (in the old-school, deprecated <link> way) openid2.local_id or openid.delegte <link> that is not the same as the current page
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aaronpk wait, <link> tags are deprecated for openid?
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tantek aaronpk - yeah I think they replaced them with something even more complicated
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singpoly1a sorry, my system froze
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tantek bummer that myopenid.com doesn't have a "URL" or "home page" field for your profile page, e.g. http://tantek.myopenid.com/
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tantek anyone suggest any OpenID providers that do?
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aaronpk identi.ca?
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-23) "/* Who */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2012/Guest_List (-20) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Getting_Started (+6) (view diff)
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tantek wow looks like identoo.com died at some point (was an OpenID provider)
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tantek anyone know what happened? when it died?
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singpolyma a lot of the small-time guys just stopped when Google and Yahoo got into the game
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singpolyma wasn't identoo noserub?
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singpolyma noserub.com is also gone
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singpolyma I feel like it was there last time I looked...
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aaronparecki.com created /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain (+1494) "Created page with "You must be ''this'' independent in order to contribute: # you must have your own domain, and # have figured out how to set up [http://microformats.org/wiki/web-sign-in web sign..."" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Getting_Started (+4) "web sign-in" (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek: have you thought about a "web sign-in" logo?
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tantek a bit, yeah - more like a standard button - I have some sketches
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-54) (view diff)
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tantek aha - of course identica supports OpenID, hCard, and rel=me!
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aaronpk ok well I'm happy the indiewebcamp wiki is switched over to web sign-in
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aaronpk I'm going to have to work on openid support for it later tho
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tantek aaronpk - sweet
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tantek nicely done
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tantek looks like Plaxo also dropped OpenID support (and hCard for that matter). sad to see that's what happened after Joseph Smarr left.
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Loqi [http://twitter.com/Indie_Auth] The IndieWebCamp wiki just launched IndieAuth! http://t.co/5CBEl1mW Sign in with your own domain name!
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Loqi [http://twitter.com/indiewebcamp] Now you can sign in to the IndieWebCamp wiki without needing to set up OpenID! http://t.co/VAYB0hyN Try it out!
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