#indiewebcamp 2012-09-11

2012-09-11 UTC
tantek, spinnerin, Alphi and dascher joined the channel
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@xtof_fr Vivre dans un silo peut être dangereux http://www.windley.com/archives/2012/09/living_in_a_silo_can_be_dangerous.shtml /by @windley #kynetx #twitter #api #vrm #indieweb
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@BarnabyWalters A couple of screenshots from @IndieWebCampUK remote participation, featuring @aaronpk @xtof_fr @glenux + his signs: http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/photos/tags-indiewebuk/list
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barnabywalters greetings tommorris
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barnabywalters I see you managed to get indieauth working in the end!
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friedcell https://indieauth.com/ down ?
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barnabywalters friedcell: looks it :(
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barnabywalters ping aaronpk
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friedcell aaronpk: ping? :)
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tommorris yup
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tommorris hey barnabywalters
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barnabywalters hey
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barnabywalters just doing some reading up on Semantic web stuff
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barnabywalters as you mentioned it @IWC
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tommorris is sort of duty-bound by loyalty to my tribe to mention it even though it is always a futile suggestion. ;-)
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barnabywalters :)
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barnabywalters what is the reason it's always a futile suggestion?
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tommorris oh because people always look at me with a strange pitying look they might give to a badger that's been hit by a car.
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barnabywalters heh
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barnabywalters I have always seen the ^Semantic web stuff as academically interesting but lacking immediate real-world usage cases
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tommorris but my replacement blogging system has a mixture of RDFa and microformats
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barnabywalters tommorris: are you developing this publically?
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tommorris no, but I should be
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barnabywalters yeah, me too :)
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barnabywalters actually, I have a blog post in progress of the value of *not* making source code publically available
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tommorris it's currently too rough and ready for putting on the public web (the voice of Aral tells me otherwise)
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tommorris but the nice thing with both microformats and RDFa is you can stack these things together
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barnabywalters one thing which I am thinking would be real-world useful but µf doesn't provide is a way to list collections
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tommorris so a blog post entry can be both an hAtom entry, and a sioc:Post and a foaf:Document and have dc:title type stuff
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barnabywalters e.g. "here, I am at waterpigs.co.uk, here's a link to my notes, my contacts, my articles"
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barnabywalters is that doable via RDFa?
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barnabywalters sure
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tommorris well, in RDF land we have this nice concept of rdfs:seeAlso which is a relation that says "hey, there's more stuff about this same resource available here"
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tommorris like, I might say on tommorris.org/tag/London (which doesn't exist) that if you want to know more about London, there's stuff at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London
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tommorris well, the RDF equivalent for "there's more stuff about this topic" is rdfs:seeAlso
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barnabywalters hmm, that's a more vague relationship than I thought it was based on what you were saying @IWC
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tommorris of course, if you were expressing facts about an individual person, pretty much every document about them that contains facts is a good candidate for rdfs:seeAlso
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tommorris well, it is and it isn't
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tommorris because of the way RDF works, it's pretty loosely coupled
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barnabywalters yes, that is a very valid point
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tommorris so, I might say A seeAlso B, but if B doesn't also express some facts about A, there's no harm done other than a few GET requests
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tommorris the semantics of the seeAlso relationship really are "hey, there might be some interesting stuff here, follow your nose"
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tommorris now, you imagine mywebsite.me/photos might contain some interesting facts about a person like "this is a photograph I took", well, that's a seeAlso'able link
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tommorris at work, if I have a very large government data set, seeAlso works as a pretty good way of doing paging. ;-)
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barnabywalters so I'm thinking in terms of client apps/crawlers being able to do a request to an identity URL and follow RDF/@rel values to get a list of other pages exposing content relating to/produced by the person
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barnabywalters tommorris: hah :)
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tommorris yep, well, in microformats, the rel=next and rel=prev links do something like that
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tommorris in fact, I believe Twitter used to use those before we entered the crazy mad world of infinite scrolling and hashbangs
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barnabywalters I'm thinking something like <a rel="see-also articles" href="/articles/">Articles</a> would allow loose-coupling with extensibility
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barnabywalters so if you understand rel=articles, great
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tommorris well, the problem with seeAlso on the human web is that pretty much all hyperlinks have the same semantics as seeAlso
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barnabywalters if you understand rel=see-also, still grest
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barnabywalters s/grest/great
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: if you understand rel=see-also, still great
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tommorris if there's a hyperlink on the page, by definition you intend to suggest that there's more that's useful about the same topic
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tommorris or a related topic
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barnabywalters tommorris: hence the need for a more detailed semantic to point crawlers in the direction of more parsable content
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tommorris seeAlso is weird because the semantics of it match up exactly to the semantics of hyperlinks, but the pragmatics don't
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barnabywalters instead of blindly following every hyperlink
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barnabywalters isn't rel=vcard in use?
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tommorris which is a philosophical way of saying people on the web use hyperlinks to point to things that have nothing to do with the current document. ;-)
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tommorris don't know about rel=vcard
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barnabywalters tommorris: yes, and that that is a very good thing!
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barnabywalters the point being that it's not saying anything like 'there are articles at this URL', it's saying 'there are parse-able h-cards at this URL'
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barnabywalters which is more useful to a crawler
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barnabywalters so for articles/notes/whatever, rel="h-entry see-also"
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barnabywalters for listings of contacts, rel="xfn see-also"
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tommorris well, in RDF land we had "scutters" which are RDF crawlers and "scutter plans". all named after Red Dwarf, I believe. ;-)
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barnabywalters goes looking in the µf wiki for rules on new rel values
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tommorris weren't the HTML 5 crew doing something like requiring rel values to be listed on the W3C or WHATWG wiki?
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barnabywalters no idea
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tommorris y'know, distributed extensibility and all that. ;-)
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barnabywalters p.s. http://rdfsseealso.net/ ?!
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tommorris that's… interesting.
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tommorris hey, it's xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd
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barnabywalters yes, looks like it has… valid rdf in…
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tommorris <body typeof="foaf:PersonalProfileDocument" about="http://rdfsseealso.org" rel="foaf:maker" href="http://turnguard.com/turnguard">
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tommorris I dunno who made this, but it's amusing
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tommorris http://turnguard.com/turnguard.html returns an Apache Tomcat 404 error
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barnabywalters yep, and the root domain is… weird
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barnabywalters µf has http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home
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tommorris yeah, some crazy Austrian dude
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barnabywalters I wonder if using @rel to let crawlers know where there's parseable data is valid usage
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barnabywalters or if anyone cares
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tommorris I think with the strict microformats on, we'd have to follow usage rather than make something up.
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tommorris s/on/hat on/
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Loqi tommorris meant to say: I think with the strict microformats hat on, we'd have to follow usage rather than make something up.
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barnabywalters so pave such cowpaths as exist?
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barnabywalters s/exist/happen to exist
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: so pave such cowpaths as happen to exist?
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tommorris barnabywalters: did you see http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Tommorris.org - the OpenStreetMap as open source venue DB bit?
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tommorris might split that out into a separate page on the wiki.
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barnabywalters tommorris: fab, open source venue databases probably deserves it's own wiki page
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tommorris who needs foursquare when we can just have an OpenStreetMap-backed system that posts a special entry to one's blog/blog-like-thing saying "Tom is currently at bla".
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barnabywalters absolutely
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barnabywalters I think aaronpk is planning some kind of fancy checkin system
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barnabywalters certainly he had some demo pages somewhere
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tommorris tantek was suggesting that if the venue doesn't already exist, you could 'create' it, by which we just mean make a post to your site saying "hey, there's a pub at this geo location called this and here's some data about it". just a vcard with geo and whatnot
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barnabywalters that works
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tommorris and if we can get the licensing stuff right, shouldn't be difficult to license those posts in such a way that OpenStreetMap could pull them in and create venues
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barnabywalters rel=license and such thing :)
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barnabywalters I wonder if we could automatically create a new OSM venue
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barnabywalters it's all an open wiki, right?
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tommorris Potentially. You'd have to check something doesn't already exist
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tommorris the problem there is the use case of "I'm on my phone, I'm trying to check into bar X and it doesn't exist" is de-duplication
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barnabywalters isn't that the first line of tantek's suggestion? check if the venue already exists in OSM?
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tommorris and also that GPS isn't that reliable
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barnabywalters sure
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tommorris wander around the City of London and your GPS will go skewiff very quickly
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tantek good morning
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tommorris hey tantek
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Loqi guten morgen! Clear and 50 degrees
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barnabywalters morning tantek!
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barnabywalters Loqi: where does your weather data come from?
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tommorris barnabywalters: well, OpenStreetMap has a sort of 'bugs database', so you could always just submit a bug to the bugs DB saying "I think there's a pub at this location, tommorris.org/post/this-awesome-pub-I-found" and a human could eventually merge it in
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tommorris it's like bugzilla but for if there's a bug in the map
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barnabywalters I'm not experienced with OSM… how eventually is "eventually"?
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tommorris well, whenever a volunteer gets around to it
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barnabywalters okay
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tommorris I closed a bug in my village
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barnabywalters woo!
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tommorris a street which was marked as a road but actually isn't accessible to cars but only pedestrians and bikes
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tommorris closing the bug required me to go and check said road in person
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tantek reads the scrollback for the morning
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barnabywalters tantek: there's rather a lot
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tantek tommorris, re: "the HTML 5 crew doing something like requiring rel values to be listed on the W3C or WHATWG wiki?" - the HTML5 WG decided on using the microformats wiki for the *official* rel registry
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barnabywalters seriously? awesome
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friedcell indieauth is still down - is there a list of servers that run the indiauth software so that when one goes down users can still log in? :)
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barnabywalters friedcell: I'm pretty sure it's only indieauth.com at the mo :|
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tommorris oh yeah, tantek, what's your thoughts on BrowserID?
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friedcell barnabywalters: interesting, I'll try to set up another one somewhere…
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barnabywalters friedcell: that's be *great*
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barnabywalters s/that's/that'd
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: friedcell: that'd be *great*
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tommorris should probably put his crappy blogging system up on Heroku in dev mode
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barnabywalters friedcell: the ideal situation would be for everyone to eventually have their own, and their own PuSH server, but for the mo having centralised infrastructure isn't really a huge issue
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barnabywalters tommorris: I've got my latest site iteration up at http://test.waterpigs.co.uk
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barnabywalters that's the one with the tag+indieauth+cardDAV auth system
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barnabywalters which of course isn't working right now 'cos indieauth is down
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friedcell barnabywalters: I know, but currently anybody using indieauth can't log in which makes it a bit hard to rely on...
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barnabywalters friedcell: sure. We need at least two or three to be really reliable
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friedcell barnabywalters: what I want to do is setup another one and make it easy to setup more :)
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barnabywalters it's ruby, right? Can we get one up on Heroku? are there security implications?
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barnabywalters friedcell: you just summed up the indieweb movement :D
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friedcell barnabywalters: the big problem might be the certificate - you need one for SSL, no idea how that works on Heroku
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barnabywalters friedcell: me neither
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barnabywalters I've actually never set up a domain with SSL, let alone on heroku
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barnabywalters I assume it's available as it's kinda important for stuff which allows signing in
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tommorris yeah, SSL on Heroku is a pain in the ass
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barnabywalters https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/ssl
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barnabywalters looks like if you use *.herokuapp.com you get ssl for free, or am I reading that wrong?
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tommorris yup
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tommorris yes, I meant it's a pain if you are doing it from your domain
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barnabywalters ah, okay
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tommorris in fact, I looked into using Heroku as an alternative for a work site, and it's fine but for the SSL thing. once you factor in the cost for SSL support, it's about the same for smaller sites as using a VPS provider like Linode
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friedcell but we could just use indieauth.herokuapp.com
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barnabywalters friedcell: yep, and then do a basic GET request to some endpoint to see which server is up
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tommorris hmm. after an hour of noodling with Rails getting tagging sorted, think I might move on and do some visual design
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barnabywalters +1
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tommorris my list of things that need doing is very long. it's been such a long time since I built a site from scratch, you sort of forget all the crap you need to do
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tommorris also, Rails is really ugly by default
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barnabywalters tommorris: yeah, we force ourselves to reinvent so much every time we do even a basic site
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barnabywalters never used rails and never really intend to
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tantek tommorris - this is the official rel registry: http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-rel-values
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tommorris ooh, mentions GRDDL
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tantek re: browserid - I think it's the best approach to email-based distributed identity yet, so I'm happy to see the iteration along that path.
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tantek my bias/preference is towards everyone owning their own domain, and thus using RelMeAuth / IndieAuth, but BrowserID is a good step towards that, getting people used to / desiring of owning their own identity.
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tantek tommorris - do you hang out in #microformats ever?
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tommorris I used to. I pretty much hang out in #geeksoflondon, some wikimedia channels and work channel (#linkedgov)
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tommorris I should probably hang out in #microformats and #swig (the semweb dork channel)
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Loqi I agree
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tantek Loqi :)
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Loqi dude
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barnabywalters tommorris: is #swig about Capital-S Semantic web stuff that's always way over my head?
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tommorris yeah, it's mostly W3Cers chewing the fat over standards and stuff
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tommorris but some of the Capital-S Capital-W people are also pragmatic. I'd like to think I'm in that camp.
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tommorris hey, some of us write HTML. ;-)
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barnabywalters ah, okay. I'll stick to here and #microformats :) I can just about handle that
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barnabywalters tommorris: woo! Yeah, you seem to be fairly down-to-earth about RDF usage
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tommorris well, I have the benefit of being able to do RDF stuff for work, so I'm less inclined to inflict it on normal people
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tommorris #swig has an interesting page at http://swig.xmlhack.com/ which lists all the links that get posted, with annotations
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Loqi http://loqi.me/53_
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barnabywalters Loqi++
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Loqi Loqi has 57 karma
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barnabywalters tommorris: is there a listing somewhere of current, real world usages for RDFa, i.e. people/organisations who are consuming it and doing something useful with it? I can't find anything
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tommorris not sure
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tommorris I used to maintain something like that, but it sort of fell off the web when I didn't renew a domain. ;-)
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tommorris I know, teh suck right?
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barnabywalters e.g. microformats has loads of pages on parsers, real world usage, etc
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tommorris that page should exist. I might stick one up on the W3C wiki
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barnabywalters it just seems to me that the first use case in http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-rdfa-primer-20120607/ is *exactly* what microformats does
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barnabywalters tempted to add RDFa to some of my pages anyway
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tommorris so, this is what I'm working on - https://gist.github.com/3697790
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tommorris it's got RDFa using SIOC+FOAF+schema.org and microformats
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barnabywalters cool
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barnabywalters I'm assuming rel=tag and rel=next/prev have yet to be added?
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barnabywalters looks nice and semantic!
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tommorris yeah, I only started building it on the train home from indiewebcamp
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tommorris and yesterday I was in London without much laptop battery ;-)
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barnabywalters btw, h-entry (µf2 version of hentry) is clearing up some of the vague semantics which leaked from ATOM into hentry
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barnabywalters e.g. replaced entry-title with p-name
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tommorris ah, I'll look into that
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tommorris grabs notebook and adds "microformats 2 h-entry" to the long list of todos
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barnabywalters I have a couple of suggestions for that markup
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barnabywalters shall I write them here or in comments on the gist?
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tommorris either is good
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barnabywalters okay, I'll add them to the gist (woo rich text)
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barnabywalters probably all stuff you already know, but hey :) Collab is good
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barnabywalters okay, commented
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barnabywalters I'd be interested to head feedback regarding whether or not rel=next|prev should go in the article
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tommorris thanks
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barnabywalters p.s. there's some awesome unicode arrow chars which look way better than < and > — I think aaronpk is using them on his notes pages
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barnabywalters I can never remember the entities for them though
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tommorris yep, I was on the train while doing them and was just hacking them in
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tommorris is just editing the RDFa page on the W3C wiki to add usage examples
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barnabywalters ooh, fab
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tommorris heh, ben adida isn't eating RDFa dogfood anymore. shame
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tommorris http://www.w3.org/wiki/RDFa
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barnabywalters okay, spent the morning hacking on the SocialIgniter installer, now I'm going to do an autocomplete test UI
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Loqi morning. Clear and 47 degrees
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tommorris presents some silliness he has just been working on: https://skitch.com/tommorris/e139w/ideas
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barnabywalters tommorris: nice. clean.
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barnabywalters presents a bare-bones posting UI with autocomplete: http://test.waterpigs.co.uk/post-ui.html
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aaronpk barnabywalters: nicely done!
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barnabywalters aaronpk: thanks, but I didn't actually do anything apart from steal the only textarea autocomplete code I thought was any good :)
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barnabywalters it works alright thought
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barnabywalters s/thought/though
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Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: it works alright though
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barnabywalters http://imankulov.github.com/asuggest/ is the code I used, but don't try getting the source from the github repo
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barnabywalters the only copy that works is the one on his site
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barnabywalters which I have now *ahem* archived over at test.wpc
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tommorris hmm.weird, not working in firefox aurora
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tommorris will try in a sensible browser shortly
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barnabywalters so now it just needs some server side stuff to a) generate the lists of people and tags, and b) change them both into real markup once posted
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barnabywalters tommorris: ooh, haven't seen aurora before
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barnabywalters I'm up for using twitter @names on the authoring side then turning them into <a class="h-card" href="domain.tld">Full Name</a> markup on the server side
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barnabywalters i.e. the @names are just an authoring shortcut, they don't actually get shown to anyone else
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tommorris Aurora is just Firefox +2 versions, so it's about 6 weeks ahead of release
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barnabywalters tommorris: the code may be broken anyway, it's two very old jQuery libraries (last tested with jQuery 1.4, the latest version is 1.8)
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barnabywalters just doing some cross browser testing now
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barnabywalters works for me in Safari 5, FF 14 and whatever chrome I'm on now
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barnabywalters they're on 21 already? woah
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@BarnabyWalters @aral app•net syndication fail :| Good on you for marking @anna_debenham up as a URL, try http://maban.co.uk next time maybe? #indieweb
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@BarnabyWalters @aral ah, so it's an app•net bug :)
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@aral @BarnabyWalters Nope, it’s an Aral, breaking things feature ;) And thanks, re: @IndieWebCampUK :) Was lovely meeting/chatting :)
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barnabywalters having a bit of a nightmare with keycodes and charcodes trying to improve the usability of this autocomplete
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tommorris remembers why he has an actual front-end developer to delegate tough JavaScript jobs to at work. ;-)
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barnabywalters tommorris: yeah, I'm not much of a client side guy either. Trying to get better though
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barnabywalters this little fix is almost sorted
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barnabywalters and now I can say I've gone into libraries from years ago and made them more usable :)
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barnabywalters okay, http://test.waterpigs.co.uk/post-ui.html is now a bit more usable. space or comma accept a suggestion and append themselves, return and right arrow accept the suggestion without appending anything
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barnabywalters usability feedback RE which keys do what would be great :)
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aaronpk oops I get "false" when typing right arrow
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aaronpk #ind[right-arrow]
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aaronpk turns into: "#indiewebfalse"
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barnabywalters ah, okay
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barnabywalters which browser
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barnabywalters ?
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aaronpk chrome 21.0
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tommorris that's awesome
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tommorris although still not working in Aurora
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barnabywalters okay, just trying in chrome
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tommorris not even showing the list of names and tags like it does in Chrome
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barnabywalters damn! it only seems to work right in safari :|
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tommorris works alright in Chrome for me
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barnabywalters tommorris: then there's a js bug somewhere, can you bring up the aurora js debugger and see if there's any obvious errors?
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barnabywalters I'll have a look in a min
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barnabywalters aaronpk: so it does. That's very odd, but shouldn't be too tricky to fix
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barnabywalters front end is fun!
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tommorris has just found "Responsive Design View" in Firefox Aurora. didn't know that existed.
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barnabywalters turns out every browser treats keycodes, charcodes, onmousedown, onpress and onmouseup differently!
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tommorris have you considered using textInput instead?
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barnabywalters tommorris: ??
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tommorris when I was looking into this stuff the other day, I came across a StackOverflow Q that suggested that textInput should be used
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barnabywalters never come across it
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tommorris http://help.dottoro.com/ljhiwalm.php
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barnabywalters I am just hacking on some old autocomplete library
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tommorris again, I don't know much if anything about JS. ;-)
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barnabywalters looks like it's not supported by opera or FF, but something similar *is*, but it works slightly differently
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barnabywalters that looks useful, I'll look at that if I end up implementing my own code
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tommorris Hmm. Loqi hasn't picked up my tweet.
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@tommorris Wondering whether keeping some distributed copies of one's distributed version control repositories is a good idea. #github #indiewebcamp
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tommorris ah ther we go
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aaronpk definitely a good idea
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tommorris trying to read documentation for Rails OmniAuth is kind of difficult when Github goes down
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aaronpk if you're up for installing stuff on your own server, there's a really good github clone http://gitlabhq.com/
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barnabywalters aaronpk: no way! I looked for something like that a while ago but must have missed it
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barnabywalters cool
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aaronpk yea it's pretty nice!
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tommorris didn't it only come out recently?
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aaronpk kinda recently
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aaronpk I can give you an account on my server if you want to try it out a bit
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barnabywalters I don't suppose it does distributed pull requests?
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aaronpk not really
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barnabywalters that's probably too much to wish for :)
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tommorris oh well, if I can't read the back end docs I need, all the more reason to polish the front end a bit
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I fixed the false bug in chrome
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barnabywalters not entirely sure *how*, but it seems to work now…
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aaronpk sweet
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barnabywalters so what is the consensus on space, comma accepting + appending, and return, right arrow accepting but not appending anything? Usable?
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barnabywalters certainly I find it intuitive and it solves my problem
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barnabywalters tantek: I made an autocomplete demo: http://test.waterpigs.co.uk/post-ui.html
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tommorris barnabywalters: looks good actually. was going to suggest that for things like that, following the lowest common denominator principle of what the text field in both Windows and OSX does is a good principle
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tommorris I'd call it "pave the cowpaths" but "don't fuck with my expectations" is more my style.
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barnabywalters +1
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barnabywalters tommorris: off the top of my head I can't think of anywhere in OSX (no idea for windows) which does this sort of autocomplete
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tommorris Safari URL bar
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barnabywalters I'm basing what I've done off a mixture of what iOS does, and what I don't like about what iOS does :)
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barnabywalters ah, of course!
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tommorris actually, that does drop-down
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tommorris also, an interesting thing I found yesterday: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/9/9b/Historical_Coverage_Europe.gif
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barnabywalters and it's a *very* different context to textareas
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tommorris an animated GIF showing the development of the coverage of Europe on OpenStreetMap
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barnabywalters text input autocomplete vs text area autocomplete are complete(argh)ly different things
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barnabywalters hey, cool
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tommorris then, I guess, find the least annoying behaviour from some widely used software
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barnabywalters tommorris: that'd be iOS, then
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tommorris pretty much
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barnabywalters iOS tends to be fairly unannoying about auto completion
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tommorris I was gonna suggest IDEs like Eclipse and Visual Studio. but, nobody really praises them for being not annoying
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barnabywalters I suppose there is a difference between auto completion and correction…
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barnabywalters for me, the ideal would be to recreate the unix command line tabbing perfectly
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barnabywalters but it'd be tricky and unintuitive for most people
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tommorris well, and it depends which shell you are using. there's slight variants between bash and zsh
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tommorris now I've switched to zsh, I can't go back. ;-)
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tommorris of course, when I switched to bash from tcsh, I couldn't go back either.
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tommorris but, yeah, that's not a bad compromise
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barnabywalters tommorris: so switching shells is a valve. you can only ever go one way :)
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barnabywalters hmm, there's a lot of documentation out there on text input autocomplete, but almost nothing on textarea autocomplete
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barnabywalters I should start an article collecting various examples of it and comparing them
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tommorris IntelliSense is what Microsoft call it in Visual Studio
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tommorris useful term for googling
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barnabywalters cheers
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barnabywalters heh, that's so microsoft
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tommorris hey, if you've ever used Java IDEs, Visual Studio is a massive step up
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tommorris say what you will about Microsoft, they know how to make a good developer-focussed product
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barnabywalters I'm not bashing MS's products, just their naming!
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barnabywalters most of my projects aren't large enough to have forced me to move to a proper IDE
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barnabywalters I just use Coda, or even vim/textedit every now and again
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tommorris you don't need it. really. I used NetBeans at a previous job. most productive with MacVim+terminal
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tantek.com edited /2012/UK/Demos (+20) "/* Demos */ g" (view diff)
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barnabywalters just got my brother to use my autocomplete interface. Consensus is, it's intuitive apart from up/down arrow keys to cycle through potential results
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barnabywalters so that's good feedback
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@t Inspiring sessions and demos @IndieWebCampUK this past weekend. Notes on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/UK/Schedule #indieweb (ttk.me t4Ku1)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2012/UK/Demos (-461) "moving my demo to [[What works]] page" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /What_works (+461) "moved my demo from [[2012/UK/Demos]] page" (view diff)
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tantek barnabywalters - nice demo! though I think the more precise term is autosuggest
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tantek !tell barnabywalters - nice demo! though I think the more precise term is autosuggest. and about the markup it generates, can we combine that with our thinking re: indie hovercards?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tommorris tantek: been working on my own stuff today - https://gist.github.com/3697790 and https://skitch.com/tommorris/e15pq/newtm2
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tantek tommorris - awesome!
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 12 minutes ago: - nice demo! though I think the more precise term is autosuggest. and about the markup it generates, can we combine that with our thinking re: indie hovercards?
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aaronpk yeah agreed about the hovercards!
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tommorris tantek: I'll reconstruct the instructions I used
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barnabywalters_ hey Loqi
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aaronpk better
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barnabywalters_ okay, RE iOS keyboards, looks like the email keyboard is *perfect* for note writing
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barnabywalters_ exposes spacebar and @
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barnabywalters_ # is just a tapdrag away
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barnabywalters_ so I'm seeing if I can get that keyboard to pop up for textareas
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tantek huh - that seems unintuitive, I'd rather just use whatever keyboard the other authoring tools use
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tantek perhaps we need <input type="markdown"> :)
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barnabywalters_ tantek: for tweets, iOS uses it's own private keyboard which exposes all the tweet microsyntax
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barnabywalters_ tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 4 karma
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barnabywalters_ type="markdown" would be amazing
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barnabywalters_ or the ability to add a keyboard accessory view from in HTML
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tantek barnabywalters - can you screenshot the private keyboard you speak of (and from what app) and post it in some shared space?
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aaronpk or to be able to define a custom keyboard
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barnabywalters_ will do, wait a sec…
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aaronpk chrome went and built their own custom keyboard
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barnabywalters_ aaronpk: well, that would be the ultimate :) A pity native apps can do it but HTML5 can't
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aaronpk you can sorta tell it's not a real iOS keyboard tho, it feels slightly off
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barnabywalters_ anyone know people at apple who they can bug about it?
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@BarnabyWalters Signs @ IndieWebCampUK http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/p/m1
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tommorris tantek: http://tommorrisbeta.herokuapp.com/posts/4
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tommorris I've also just been trying to explain the indieweb stuff to a friend of mine.
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tommorris he read Mark Hendrickson's post and said "wow, that sounds really cool, does that work yet?"
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tommorris I had to say "no, but geeks are working on it"
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barnabywalters_ tantek: screenshots of iPad and iPhone tweet sheets and native app UI http://photos.waterpigs.co.uk/photos/tags-tweet-ui/list
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aaronpk tommorris: this one? http://markmhendrickson.com/homesteading-on-the-indie-web
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tommorris yep
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tantek.com created /autosuggest (+814) "draft a decent stub with links to sessions, hack, prototype" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - awesome
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barnabywalters so the WHATWG define @inputmode http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#attr-fe-inputmode
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barnabywalters mob safari textareas don't respond to it, unfortunately
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barnabywalters hey brennannovak
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brennannovak barnabywalters: ah I missed that last message, Limechat made me restart
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brennannovak I saw a bunch of your tickets / comments this morning
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barnabywalters cool
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barnabywalters I did a load of fixes to the installer
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barnabywalters it's shiny now
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barnabywalters lots of helpful error boxes :)
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barnabywalters how was remote participation? work alright?
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barnabywalters I need to update my page on it with new stuff I've learnt from IWC UK
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barnabywalters I added most of the regular #indiewebcamp folks to the autosuggest demo list of @names, so the tab-to-see-other-alternatives is more interesting now http://test.waterpigs.co.uk/post-ui.html
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barnabywalters needs up/down arrow support to be little-brother compliant
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tantek barnabywalters - see my notes of work to date on indie autosuggest here: http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/autosuggest
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barnabywalters tantek: 404
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barnabywalters http://indiewebcamp.com/autosuggest
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tantek lol
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tantek yes that
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barnabywalters you've been spending too much time gardening the µf wiki of spam ;)
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@BarnabyWalters .@indiewebcamp people: please play with http://test.waterpigs.co.uk/post-ui.html and let me know what you think RE usability http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/263
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barnabywalters !tell tantek Great page, I'm adding some of my multiline autosuggest patterns documentation + photos
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /autosuggest (+1335) "Added a whole load of autosuggest patterns" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /autosuggest (+217) "/* Examples in the Wild */ Added common denominators" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /autosuggest (-6) "/* Examples in the Wild */ Fixed external photo links" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk created /location (+353) "Templated out a basic page for indieweb location handling" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Main_Page (-19) "/* IndieWebCampUK */ Changed IWC UK copy to past tense" (view diff)
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barnabywalters aaronpk: any thoughts on getting Loqi to only notify the IRC channel about non-minor wiki edits?
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Loqi :)
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barnabywalters instead of posting all the edits
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Loqi http://loqi.me/53o
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barnabywalters yes, I did that on purpose
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aaronpk :)
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aaronpk i would assume the mediawiki recentchanges bot has an option for that
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aaronpk :)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2012/UK (+305) "/* Posts About */ Added TomMorris's retrospective" (view diff)
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barnabywalters Okay, regarding that linking of tommorris' blog page, I'm getting some odd behaviour when I click through from the wiki
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barnabywalters the URL is right, but safari either complains or goes blank. On refresh it works fine
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barnabywalters tumblr domain thing?
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aaronpk what url?
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barnabywalters http://blog.tommorris.org/post/31262308998/hackdiary-indiewebcamp
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barnabywalters worked alright that time
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barnabywalters On http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/UK#Posts_About
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barnabywalters yep, seems to be okay for me now, after a few refreshes
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barnabywalters weird
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aaronpk hm yea i don't have any trouble with it
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barnabywalters meh, some transient bug on my end then
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barnabywalters okay, I'm signing off for the night
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barnabywalters bye for the mo
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aaronpk goodnight!
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Loqi gute nacht!
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barnabywalters good… afternoon, or whatever time is is in the US :)
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Loqi tantek: barnabywalters left you a message 44 minutes ago: Great page, I'm adding some of my multiline autosuggest patterns documentation + photos
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@xtof_fr @glenux croisé brique argu #barcampgarden via @fbaud_fr : "info@amiando.com taggé comme adresse spam usuelle par GMail". #indieweb ?
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tommorris tantek: come up with a thing I've noticed with building the microblogging side: on-page-posting. https://skitch.com/tommorris/e16bn/on-page-posting
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tommorris popped it here - http://tommorrisbeta.herokuapp.com/posts/7
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tantek.com edited /User:Tommorris.org (+200) "/* Wishlist */ see [[autosuggest]]" (view diff)
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tantek tommorris - re on-page-posting, that's exactly what made the *early* Twitter so nice and successful
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tantek the tweet box was *right above* the top of your current stream
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tantek so when you tweeted, what you tweeted turned "solid" and scrolled into the feed right below the text box.
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aaronpk oh yea that was really nice
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tantek almost like an IM/IRC interface, but turned upside down (with text input box at top rather than bottom)
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tantek sad that they've lost that
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tantek early screenshots show it
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tommorris indeed
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tommorris the more of this I build, the more I'm realising how much there is to do
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aaronpk good point about the in-page posting
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aaronpk right now i have a separate page for posting, since I started my site with no posting interface at all
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tommorris so, AutoHyperlinks.Framework really needs to be ported into various front-end and back-end languages
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tommorris AutoHyperlinks is a library built by the Adium developers for detecting URLs in instant message chats
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tommorris has comprehensive unit tests and stuff. very handy.
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tantek tommorris - checkout the auto_link function in github.com/tantek/cassis :)
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tantek works in JS and PHP :D
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tantek oh? I could perhaps use the unit tests
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tantek link to the tests?
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tommorris !tell tantek http://hg.adium.im/adium/file/dd84299f466b/Frameworks/AutoHyperlinks%20Framework/UnitTests is where the unit tests are for AutoHyperlink. have fun decoding Objective-C. ;-)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi tantek: tommorris left you a message 29 minutes ago: http://hg.adium.im/adium/file/dd84299f466b/Frameworks/AutoHyperlinks%20Framework/UnitTests is where the unit tests are for AutoHyperlink. have fun decoding Objective-C. ;-)