#indiewebcamp 2013-02-11

2013-02-11 UTC
scor and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk, as IndieWebCamp co-organizer, I'd like to adopt this (modified for s/open source/indie web) as our code of conduct for IndieWebCamps: http://opensourcebridge.org/about/code-of-conduct/ (please ping caseorganic about it too).
#
tantek since that code of conduct is CC-licensed it's easier to copy/modify without asking
#
tantek I also like O'Reilly Media's, but it doesn't have an explicit shareable license on it: http://oreilly.com/conferences/code-of-conduct.html
#
aaronpk tantek: that sounds great to me
#
tantek ooh I just found one that's CC-by: https://us.pycon.org/2013/about/code-of-conduct/
#
tantek which means we can copy it, credit them, and then publish it CC0.
#
tantek (in #indiewebcamp style ;) )
#
tantek thanks for your support aaronpk
#
tantek I'm writing a larger blog post on this issue, and this is a necessary step.
#
tantek Ooh - this one is CC0: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Conference_anti-harassment/Policy
#
tantek aaronpk, ok, I'm going to assume you'll trust my general judgment to draft this up on our wiki and then we can edit / refine from that point.
#
tantek tommorris - do any of the WikiMedia conferences have codes of conduct like the above that are worthy of referencing?
#
aaronpk yes, I defintiely trust your judgment on this, will review it later
#
tantek thanks much
danbri, tantek, tantek_, lmorchard, Stevef, eschnou, samobk, samobk__, adactio, friedcell and mxuribe joined the channel
#
notizblog.org edited /2013/Guest_List (+811) "/* Remote Participants */" (view diff)
scor, eschnou, danbri and rektide_ joined the channel
#
tantek another site death, with apparently some loss of user data: http://blog.everyblock.com/2013/feb/07/goodbye/
#
tommorris ooh, overpass API have fixed the bug that was preventing me from using it for getting data from OSM
#
tommorris also, tantek: +1 on implementing anti-harassment policy.
#
tantek thanks tommorris. let me know if you know of any Wikimedia conference precedents that I can cite.
#
tommorris yeah, we had a problem at Wikimania in DC last year
#
tommorris basically this...
#
tommorris https://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy
#
tommorris https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy
#
tommorris https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Participation_policy
#
tommorris https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAMcamp_DC/Friendly_space_policy
#
tommorris and the issue I was alluding to is documented at - http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Benevolent_dictator_incident
Stevef, scor, morrocco_mole, bnvk, eschnou, barnabywalters, tantek and friedcell joined the channel
#
barnabywalters did anyone else see this SOCML proposal for a "common data format for the federated social web" on the fedsocweb wiki/mailing list? http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SOCML_Proposal
#
aaronpk yea...
#
barnabywalters I was a little irked that the proposed said he had done "little research"
#
aaronpk lol yea
#
barnabywalters looking at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SOCML:Connection_Requests (the only currently existing technical document) does not inspire me with confidence
#
barnabywalters it seems very much centred around hyper privacy and encryption, when almost all of twitter, and (I suspect) a fair portion of facebook’s user-published data is not private
#
tantek "has done little research" = don't bother with crackpot garage inventions
#
tantek worse yet - they have no concept nor respect of their own identity - they created and edited the wiki pages as a pseudonymous "Socml" rather than something that is *them* and not just their proposal: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/index.php?title=SOCML_Proposal&action=history
#
tantek BarnabyWalters - feel free to write-up a fisking of all the things wrong with that proposal and it's approach.
#
tantek http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisking
#
tantek on the positive side, this article seems worthy of mining for bits for indiewebcamp.com (including more links to relevant things)
#
tantek https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/03/introduction-distributed-social-network
#
tantek Loqi, why aren't you summarizing what's on the other end of a URL?
#
Loqi :)
#
barnabywalters tantek: yeah, that they made a 'socml' account is really weird
#
tantek barnabywalters - it is ironic that someone that presumes to invent something about the social web doesn't even bother to have a web identity of their own. pretty much defeats the entire idea.
#
barnabywalters tantek: yeah, I think that’s another good nonsense-idea filter, along with "are the creators actually using the things they’re making"
#
tantek yeah - the self-dogfooding filter is a good one
#
tantek this one was surprising though - yeah - if the name of your wiki account is the very thing that you're proposing on the wiki - ok, you're a crackpot - go away
#
barnabywalters hm, perhaps substitute "go away" with "try building and using what you’re suggesting"
#
tantek barnabywalters, also, LOL at the original URL you provided:
#
tantek <firstname></firstname>
#
tantek <lastname></lastname>
#
tantek "try building and using what you’re suggesting" is a good response to the non-self-dogfooder
#
tantek but someone who doesn't even bother to use a person-based identity (vs.a project-based identity) ...
#
tantek perhaps the better questions are:
#
tantek Who are you?
#
barnabywalters hah, yes
#
tantek What is your personal URL?
#
tantek and if they can't answer that, then point them here: http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
#
tantek and tell them to come back when they've gotten themselves setup with something on the web like that
#
barnabywalters and if they can’t answer the first question, direct them to a local hospital
#
tantek that sounds good
#
tantek we should write this up in a script
#
tantek ]
#
tantek oh this Socml thing just showed up a couple of days ago: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history
#
tantek how odd
#
barnabywalters "So you’ve got a fedsocweb idea. Assess it’s usefulness with this useful flowchart!" sorta thing
#
barnabywalters yeah, I saw it pop up in the mailing list (yuk, yes) yesterday
#
barnabywalters that fedsocweb wiki URL is fairly horrible. 2005/Incubator :/
danbri and tilgovi joined the channel
#
barnabywalters hah, I’m writing a brief reply to the proposal and I’ve just noticed the title is: SOCML: A standardized social media data standard
#
barnabywalters STANDARDIZE ALL THE STANDARDS
#
Loqi STANDARDIZE ALL THE STANDARDS http://loqi.me/6UL
#
tommorris barnabywalters: I saw that on the w3 list and just thought "that ain't going anywhere". didn't even need to read it.
#
barnabywalters tommorris: yeah, I’ve written up a little reply but I’m not even sure if I should even post it. Perhaps the best way would be to just ignore it.
#
tommorris also, most things that are marketed as "markup languages" (*ML) are barely languages and usually don't contain any text that is marked up.
#
barnabywalters however: if the guy really is interested in improving the state of the social web, I can perhaps point him in a more sustainable direction.
#
tommorris I've seen things that are marketed as "markup languages" (because they use XML) and which contain no XMLTextNodes.
#
barnabywalters ha
#
tommorris it's like 'Pimp My Ride' but with no ride. They just give you a train ticket.
bnvk joined the channel
#
tommorris also, I've spent half of today turning web pages into BibTeX citations. We *really* need to solve this.
#
barnabywalters "if you can’t make an [X markup language] by writing the plaintext content and adding tags, it’s not markup language"
#
barnabywalters s/X markup language]/X markup language] document
#
Loqi barnabywalters meant to say: "if you can’t make an [X markup language] document by writing the plaintext content and adding tags, it’s not markup language"
#
barnabywalters I still don’t really understand the benefits of TeX over HTML
#
tommorris pretty rendering, mostly
#
barnabywalters I did briefly try using it for science projects in secondary school but went back to HTML immediately
#
tommorris the LaTeX renderer spits out *beautiful* typography
#
tommorris http://tommorris.org/files/naturalism.pdf for instance (my Masters dissertation)
#
barnabywalters ooh, that is pretty
#
tommorris the bibliography at the end is particularly pretty.
#
tommorris HTML still doesn't do small caps very well
#
tommorris s/HTML/CSS, and the current browser implementations and fonts in widespread use,/
#
Loqi tommorris meant to say: CSS, and the current browser implementations and fonts in widespread use, still doesn't do small caps very well
#
barnabywalters I’m assuming that typeface is liberally licensed and could/can be used on the web?
#
tommorris yup, Computer Modern.
#
tommorris not sure if there's a webfont version. if not there ought to be
#
barnabywalters the whole point of web fonts and font-family is surely that it no longer *matters* which fonts are in widespread use
#
tommorris but it's more than just the font. Knuth put an enormous amount of work into getting layout right
#
tommorris so TeX does some really sophisticated line length and page length optimisation
#
tommorris if you've got Computer Modern installed, you could write something that looks like a LaTeX document in Pages or Word, but when you print a LaTeX doc, it looks pretty close to what a professional typesetter would do.
#
barnabywalters there is a webfont http://stackoverflow.com/a/9286333
#
tommorris for me, the main benefit is good bibliographic management. having a big database file containing all the references, and having a little Python script I can run to re-render, and being able to keep the whole thing in version control...
#
tommorris if you are doing academic stuff, LaTeX can be really truly wonderful
#
Loqi CONTAIN ALL THE REFERENCES http://loqi.me/6UM
#
barnabywalters perhaps I would need to go through higher ed to understand the benefits :)
#
tommorris it's only used in maths, CS, physics and some other physical sciences. a lot of philosophers use it. I was a geeky outlier in my department. ;)
#
barnabywalters having read a few dissertations and academic documents about violin physics, I completely understand the need for good typography in academic work ;)
#
tommorris well, small pleasures. it makes up for the years of work for low or no pay.
#
barnabywalters some of them were all over the place. no comic sans, but not very easy on the eyes
#
tommorris Manchester University seem to have gone to all the trouble of storing Dublin Core metadata for their webpages. But created/updated aren't things they seem to care about. sigh.
josephboyle and danbri joined the channel
#
@julien51 If you own a blog and think it's your most valuable online asset, I want your feedback on http://www.subtome.com/ #indieweb
#
tantek good to see julien51 working on that problem
bnvk_ and morrocco_mole joined the channel
#
@BarnabyWalters Great to see @superfeedr using web action delegate patterns for http://t.co/n9WRmLAm! #indieweb #webactions (http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/937/)
#
tantek barnabywalters, remind me what are web action delegate patterns?
#
tantek !tell barnabywalters,remind me what are web action delegate patterns?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek uh what
#
tantek !tell barnabywalters remind me what are web action delegate patterns?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
tantek okee
#
@brennannovak Just added more features: media attachments &amp
#
Loqi short URLs to the POSSE implementation of my personal #IndieWeb site... http://bnvk.me/DpU
#
brennannovak.com edited /Semantics_Of_Article-Note_Distinction (+1002) "/* Personal, subjective distinctions */" (view diff)
gwenbell joined the channel
#
tantek welcome gwenbell!
#
gwenbell holler!
#
tantek gwenbell - see if you can add yourself to the 2013 Guest List: http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/Guest_List
#
gwenbell tantek: first time playing with indieauth
josephboyle joined the channel
#
aaronpk crosses fingers it's easier to use now!
#
tantek public user test!
#
gwenbell Shout out to the peers who made indieauth: rad! I totally signed in using my own domain (once I rel="me"ed Github)
#
aaronpk great!
#
gwenbell aaronpk: thank you!
#
tantek woot!
#
Loqi :D