#indiewebcamp 2013-03-18
2013-03-18 UTC
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@IDMclean POSSE Publish On Site Syndicate Elsewhere: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
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@xtof_fr Les flux #rss sont en train de mourir. Bienvenue aux flux sémantiques ! http://christopheducamp.com/wiki/%C3%80_propos_des_silos_vs_un_Web_Social_Ouvert#flux-s%C3%A9mantique /by @t #indieweb
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@digpenSW RT @BarnabyWalters: Booked ticket for @digpensw — so if anyone wants to talk #microformats, #indieweb or #webactions… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1142/
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waterpigs.co.uk created /webactions-verbs-brainstorming (+1854) "Created with conversation dump" (view diff)
# waterpigs.co.uk edited /webactions () "(-4717) Removed research and brainstorming, replaced with links" (view diff)
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tommorris http://dashes.com/anil/2012/12/the-web-we-lost.html is very true though ;)
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tantek tommorris - interesting that that post garnered so many posts/comments, yet no comments on the follow-up: http://dashes.com/anil/2012/12/rebuilding-the-web-we-lost.html
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@charlesroper All students and teachers and makers of the Web should read this about silos vs selfhosting #indieweb http://tantek.com/2013/073/b1/silos-vs-open-social-web +@raymondpirouz
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# tantek tommorris - funny thing about Anil's "Web We Lost" posts - the day he posted the second one, Brian Oberkirch IM'd it to me and I got into a "heated" discussion with him on IM - which resulted in this post: http://tantek.com/2012/353/t1/chat-spew-blog-post-into-im-push-buttons
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@jgbarah Indie Web Projects: #freesoftware for growing the independent web http://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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@jorgecortell RT @jgbarah: Indie Web Projects: #freesoftware for growing the independent web http://indiewebcamp.com/projects
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@pgsimoes #indieweb http://www.downes.ca/post/60127/rd?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (via @oldaily) #elearning #edtech
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@JeromeSimon RT @pgsimoes: #indieweb http://www.downes.ca/post/60127/rd?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (via @oldaily) #elearning #edtech
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tantek.com edited /Why_web_sign-in (+153) "/* Why not 3rd party provider email */ Spoofed emails can cause a DoS on your ability to send" (view diff)
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eschnou barnabywalters, I have comments/questions on your webaction toolbelt, where is best to discuss ? Github issues ?
# eschnou barnabywalters, did you see I have enabled them on storytlr ? (check http://eschnou.com)
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barnabywalters eschnou: here for the mo, we can solidify any actionable outcomes as issues
# barnabywalters awesome! I hadn’t seen that (looks)
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@StarryKari ~73K Facebook fans, put up a post 2 hours ago, and only 11 people were shown it. 11!!!!! This is why, well everything. #indieweb #paytoplay
# barnabywalters eschnou: looks great, and fallback is perfect
# eschnou barnabywalters, well, the look is my key issue :-)
# barnabywalters yeah, it’s not nice
# eschnou can't we find a way that you don't mingle with my content ? I add an 'action' and style it as I want, you trigger whatever when clicked.
# barnabywalters eschnou: where would fallback content do then?
# barnabywalters or, let the user choose the name, and leave the styling to the host site?
# eschnou outside, and let ME decide if it should be hidden or not if actions are supported (through whatever class,rel)
# eschnou with the fallback inside the tag, it makes it impossible to add text/images/whatever
# barnabywalters ME being the website owner? whole point of web action toolbelt is to put the user firmly in control
# eschnou no, ME the user :-) I may want to still have the tweet button handy
# barnabywalters ah, okay, that’s interesting
# barnabywalters so you say you may want the tweet button handy — solution, add it as a service to that verb/tweet button customiser
# eschnou or G+ or whatever, so as the site owner, I could mark these through whatever means as the fallback, and the extension would hide them based on the user choice.
# barnabywalters eschnou: by choice you mean, give the option to (instead of replacing fallback content) add web action buttons next to them?
# eschnou yes
# eschnou I also wonder how we can make this looks good. One idea is that the site owner designs it and you don't interfere with the content, only display a popup when clicked.
# eschnou Or can I add some css to my site to tweak their look ?
# barnabywalters eschnou: I am currently overriding very few CSS properties on the buttons, but I can add a class so you can style them however you want
# eschnou ok, happy to try that route
# barnabywalters right, adding classes now
# eschnou I also would like to add a 'reply' action that is different than 'post' <- why is that one not 'share' by the way ?
# eschnou My use case: click reply, reply on my site refering to your post, pingback your post with my reply
# barnabywalters eschnou: yep, I have a reply action on individual notes and am going to add it to note lists
# barnabywalters see http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Brainstorming and http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Verbs for verb reasoning, research and brainstorming
# eschnou barnabywalters, Ok, just saw the favorite and reply, really nice. It would be great if we could find a way to enable the site owner (e.g. you on your site) to style it so the action looks like the 'fallback' ones.
# barnabywalters eschnou: part of the fun of <action> for me was letting go of some of the control I have
# barnabywalters but I realise it might be useful to be able to add images
# tantek there's some good reasoning about how such "social buttons" are actually bad for the design of a site: http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Drop_Social_Buttons
# barnabywalters eschnou: okay, I added some classnames to the replaced UI. .toolbelt-web-action, .toolbelt-web-action-button and .toolbelt-web-action-select
# barnabywalters you’ll probably have to use !important, I think style attr styles have higher specificity than styles in classes
# eschnou tantek, sure but then you need the actions button to be in your browser toolbar ?
# eschnou tantek, to me they still make sense displayed next to individual entries. E.g. I browse your timeline of your notes and reply to one in particular.
# barnabywalters there’s a lot to be said for positioning these things near the content itself — which is why I was so excited to rediscover that margin marks UI brainstorming
# barnabywalters an then, highlights actionable content on hover of margin mark
# barnabywalters I haven’t checked if web action toolbelt replaces spy buttons before they have time to track people — seems unlikely if they use cookies
# barnabywalters but other extensions handle that better anyway
# barnabywalters tommorris: ooh, that’s dodgy
# tantek perhaps add that example to that section? http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions#Drop_Social_Buttons
# barnabywalters if you have a reply action configured, do=reply rolled out to http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/
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# waterpigs.co.uk edited /webactions-verbs-research (+215) "/* Attendee Verb Usage */ Added eschnou’s action element usage" (view diff)
# tantek.com edited /webactions (+593) "/* Verbs */ add Action tag examples in the wild section" (view diff)
# barnabywalters tantek: good plan, thanks
# barnabywalters tantek: and that frees up research for YAY TABLES
# barnabywalters making tallies of verb usage
# tantek would be great if the headings where had IDs for linking to: http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/experimental-markup :)
# barnabywalters tantek: yeah, been meaning to implement that
# barnabywalters now someone’s actually asked I’ll make it a priority
# barnabywalters tommorris: I was a little uncomfortable at first but now I’m actually using it that’s evaporated :)
# tantek.com edited /posts-elsewhere (+316) "considering changing heading on my posts from Elsewhere to Syndication" (view diff)
# barnabywalters tantek: RE ^, that terminology is probably worth disucssing
# barnabywalters esp. because, as you mentioned, we’ve all come up with different terms for the same thing
# barnabywalters yes — I have a load of note-UI design sketches and notes I need to scan and write up
# barnabywalters I split my note content into primary, contextual, metadata and network
# barnabywalters I don’t think I publish any of mine at the moment
# tantek tommorris - re: head/profile, feel free to help out with: http://microformats.org/wiki/html5-profile
# eschnou barnabywalters, I've restyled the button on my site... have a look and let me know what you think.
# barnabywalters eschnou: what should I be seeing? rebuilt+refreshed+cleared cache but I can’t see any difference, or detect any via inspection
# eschnou barnabywalters, hmm... your button is gone and you should just see a lighter link that integrates better in the rest of the design
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# eschnou barnabywalters, the class you added was .web-action-hero-toolbelt-button ? correct ? that's what I used to style it.
# barnabywalters eschnou: ah, no, it was what I typed :) toolbelt-web-action and toolbelt-web-action-button
# barnabywalters but if the full name makes more sense I can change it
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# barnabywalters tommorris: cool, any and all feedback appreciated when you do :)
# barnabywalters especially RE the quoting UI — the buggiest part but the part I use the most
# eschnou ha, so maybe I failed to refresh my extension and it uses old classes :-)
# barnabywalters if only all browsers supported getBoundingRect
# eschnou do I need to recompile something to get it updated in chrome ?
# barnabywalters eschnou: my bad, when I committed the changes I forgot to rebuild! should work now
# barnabywalters you will have to refresh it in the extension prefs
# eschnou I've done that, but somehow I don't see the new classes
# barnabywalters the latest version in GH has the classes: https://github.com/barnabywalters/web-action-hero-toolbelt/blob/master/src/common/shim.js#L13
# barnabywalters so pulling and refreshing should sort it
# eschnou yum, see it in the gitpull.. will close chrome and try again
# barnabywalters (cross browser extension development can be a bit sketchy)
# barnabywalters but worth it
# eschnou barnabywalters, killall/reload, no changes. Do you/do I need to rebuild it for chrome ?
# eschnou I've loaded it from the output folder
# eschnou barnabywalters, ok, the shim.js in output/chrome is not updated. Is there a way for me to do it or do you need to do some magic ? :-)
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# barnabywalters eschnou: right, I rebuilt and pushed again, and my copy of shim.js in output/chrome is good
# barnabywalters so it should work now (crosses fingers) :)
# eschnou barnabywalters, yup ! let me fix my css
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# barnabywalters eschnou: yay!
# eschnou barnabywalters, and also added the reply action, so you should see both
# barnabywalters eschnou: I see them (and new styling) — looks great
# eschnou barnabywalters, I think your site would look better if you could restyle your actions to have the same look as the fallback
# barnabywalters eschnou: yep, I’ll probably do that
# eschnou this css trick seems to be enough to achieve pretty much anything, I like it
# eschnou just wonder if I could replace an action text by an image through css only
# barnabywalters eschnou: .toolbelt-web-action-button::before
# eschnou barnabywalters, indeed, CSS3 is awesome :-)
# eschnou barnabywalters, on another note, do you support pingbacks ? I haven't seen a link element on your site to your server.
# barnabywalters eschnou: I support pingbacks the lightweight way, through the X-Pingback header
# eschnou aaronpk, last time I asked, they told me to first do pingback because of userbase :-)
# barnabywalters still needs to implement webmention
# eschnou barnabywalters, hmmm.. I'm using the php pingback lib, does not seem to get the header, will need to add that
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aaronpk you're more than welcome to use my pingback->webmention gateway to avoid writing xml code https://github.com/aaronpk/Pingback#webmention
# eschnou aaronpk, I'm almost done with pingback, I promise webmention comes next :)
# eschnou by the way, I finally had my woaw moment when I realized the power of pingback + microformats :-)
# eschnou getting the hatom from the source entry to display it nicely on my site is awesome :-)
# eschnou aaronpk, by the way, your example on using pingbackme for testing in the wiki leads to a forbidden
# eschnou aaronpk, http://indiewebcamp.com/pingback#How_do_I_test_sending_pingbacks.3F
# eschnou barnabywalters, and a final unrelated question: your notes have fullname and links to indieusers (e.g. tantek.com) but your tweets refer to their nick (@t). Got some code to fetch their twitter username from page etc... or you are doing it manually ?
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# barnabywalters eschnou: I have rather a lot of code doing that! Some of it needs to be pruned as it is slow
# barnabywalters the flow is: #cassis transforms @names into .h-x-username anchors, linked to twitter
# barnabywalters then, if I have the person in my address book, it’s expanded into an h-card with details from my db
# barnabywalters otherwise, I fetch their details from the identengine.com API
# barnabywalters which is great, but slow, so I’ll probably replace that with just getting their details off their twitter page/their page linked from twitter at the most
# barnabywalters and I store the original @name in data-at-name, which is replaced at syndication time
# eschnou so, when you write your note, you typed @t and not @tantek.com ?
# barnabywalters eschnou: yep
# eschnou ha, I was planning to do the opposite, feels more indie :-)
# eschnou write @tantek.com when I type my note, and the fetch his page, look up rel=me to twitter, and grab his username there
# barnabywalters eschnou: indeed, main reason for twitter @names is the speed
# barnabywalters and also that #cassis handles the autolinking so I don’t have to write any regexes l)
# barnabywalters ;), rather (not sure what that smiley is…)
# eschnou :-) but what is cassis ?
# barnabywalters Loqi knows things!
# eschnou lol
# aaronpk ok... fixed permissions check http://pingback.me/api/links?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpingback.me
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# barnabywalters signing off. goodnight all
# eschnou I was planning to transfor @-indieweb names to @-twitter ones... we'll see how this works out
# eschnou hehe... more code to write ;-)
# eschnou I'll have a look at that one
# eschnou but my idea was to simply go for indieweb users, with autocompletion based on people I already interacted with
# eschnou will ping you when I get something functional, so we can play with. Until then... goodnight all !
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