#indiewebcamp 2013-06-27

2013-06-27 UTC
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tantek.com
edited /responses (+992) "move citations of posts / discussion threads to related section"
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tantek.com
edited /responses (+758) "/* object of action */ debunk common usage, note utility of "liked-*" pattern, suggest other possibilities like "liked-object", "liked-post"."
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werd.io
edited /responses (+366) "Comment / question about rel="liked-*""
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+1169) "debunk any need to use 404 for deletes"
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+623) "/* Issues */ follow-up on issues"
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+112) "expand on tombstoning as an option"
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tantek.com
edited /comment (+146) "/* Update a comment */ handle another update scenario, when comment no longer links to the original, treat it like a deleted"
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tantek
aaronpk - I don't "get" potluck.it - seems like a social bookmarking science experiment?
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tantek
would it be too mocking to develop an *actual* Federated Potluck Protocol? (as a special case of events of course, just adding a notion of requested "dishes" to the Event, and a "what dish I'm bringing" to the RSVP)
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tantek
half tempted to write it up just to see if benwerd implements it ;)
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tantek
benwerd, btw, I showed you chicken posting / POSSE functionality to a special friend, and she loved it. she found it inspiring from a fun / constructive creativity perspective :)
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benwerd
awesome! :)
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tantek
we couldn't stop laughing. so good.
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benwerd
my main challenge is now not to be the chicken guy
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benwerd
glad folks liked it! :)
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tantek
when are you back in SF?
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benwerd
right now
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benwerd
I came back earlier today (was on the channel from the sky, even)
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tantek
whoa.
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tantek
my dinner plans fell through. got any?
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benwerd
my sister's coming round here to cook vegan food and possibly watch a movie. you're welcome to join if you don't mind the trek ;)
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benwerd
otherwise I'm pretty clear from here on out
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tantek
that depends on how far from BART you are
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benwerd
10 mins walk, equidistant from N Berkeley and Berkeley
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benwerd
I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to wait until an SF day though ;) I'm around most evenings now
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benwerd
would definitely love to hang out
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tantek
yes - let's figure something out soon
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tantek
I feel like I'm close to getting posting replies (with webmention) working
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tantek
which then means I should be close to RSVPs
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tantek
and then I can respond to one of your events :)
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benwerd
cool :) and in the meantime allllll my contact details are rel="me"d up on werd.io now
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benwerd
(thanks for noticing that the plugin I wrote last night displayed all my site content twice ..)
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tantek
oh good you caught that
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benwerd
also also, what does potluck actually *do*?
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benwerd
because it sort of looks like something that could be implemented using the resharing mechanism that sandeep demonstrated, inside a collection
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benwerd
Alright. Speaking of sisterly meals, I'd better hop and get some ingredients. No new features from me tonight.
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bret
I have to go do something right now, but I am just going to leave this idea sitting here for when I get back: Find a way for IRC logs to be microformatted so that we can see how they fit into all of these indieweb mention/reply development. IRC plays a huge part in our colaborations, and the log pages is IRCs extension into the "web"
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bret
developments*
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bret
Like maybe the webmention endpoint on the logs could be some kind bot that relays the mentions directly from any valid webmention
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bret
for a particular page or line
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bret
or whatever else folks might find useful
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@eschnou
@benwerd Thanks for the mention! I hope to get more time soon to improve storytlr #indieweb support and test federation with #idno.
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@xtof_fr
RT @t: First federated #indieweb event+RSVP with 2 sites+implementations
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bret
oh hey there it is
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aaronpk
I just need to make a permalink page for each line as well
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aaronpk
and contain a few lines above and below the linked line
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bret
that would be really great
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bret
even though it might not have a wide appeal, it would demonstrate the flexibility of this system
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bret
it would be useful among friends here :)
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aaronpk
I dunno, personally I'd like to be able to reference specific lines of IRC logs in notes/articles
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bret
me to
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bret
I need to fix my note implemention
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bret
it only does replies at the moment :)
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aaronpk
oooops
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bret
the site doesnt build if I do a note without a in reply to url
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bret
it was fun meeting up with everyone at back space the other night, aaronpk. Do you do that kind of thing often?
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aaronpk
whenever i'm actually in town, yes
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aaronpk
I wonder if there's enough people in Portland to do a weekly indieweb hack night
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bret
maybe we can make more
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bret
maybe there is a more general interest hacking group that we could work with / recruit from
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aaronpk
there's the thursday night hack nights. I haven't been in a couple months tho
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aaronpk
I dunno...there was a good turnout for the IRC bot hacking night, that's kinda niche
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bret
we need more table space
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aaronpk
side door is a good hack spot
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aaronpk
although i'm determined to find something in NW that works well
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bret
I have not been there before
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aaronpk
or maybe Amnesia brewing
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bret
im still trying to get used to the hacking session. I tent to distract easily/cant focus
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bret
err hacking enviroment*
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aaronpk
that's ok too
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aaronpk
cause half the goal of getting together to hack is meeting and talking to people
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bret
when we are hacking i want to see what everyone is doing, and when people are demoing I just want to hack
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bret
i just need to turn that around and Ill be good
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bret
aaronpk, did you mention that new.indiewebcamp.com parsed even data?
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aaronpk
I think it's not quite right yet
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aaronpk
still need to add 1) permalink pages for individual lines and 2) map IRC nicks to domain names from the irc-people page http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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aaronpk
goodnight!
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Loqi
don't let the bed bugs bite
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bret
what cool!
morrocco_mole, seyz, acegiak, spindritf, bizybee, josephboyle, wycats_, hadleybeeman, brixen, aaronpk, marjolein, singpolyma, lindas, sdboyer, Garbee and bnvk joined the channel
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bret
Doing a roundup post of my experience this weekend
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neuro`
Looking forward to reading it.
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Loqi
barnabywalters: tantek left you a message on 6/25 at 12:24pm: what do you think of this proposed way to handle deleting (and deleted) comments? http://indiewebcamp.com/deleted
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@sandeepshetty
#converspace now has a nice Recent Mentions page: http://www.sandeep.io/mentions #indieweb
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erikmaarten
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 168 karma
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erikmaarten
for coming up with the karma idea!
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erikmaarten
aaronpk, don't you think karma or something like that could be implemented on a broader scale, across the indieweb?
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erikmaarten
as a means of showing appreciation/trust
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erikmaarten
with karma points being possible to validate with the sender of those karma points
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barnabywalters
erikmaarten: do indieweb likes/favourites not already do that?
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erikmaarten
barnabywalters: I was thinking about that for a moment, but karma could be more of a trust network
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barnabywalters
(by which I mean the multiple working implementations of indie likes)
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erikmaarten
but in a sense, you're rigth
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erikmaarten
it depends on how one thinks of likes
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erikmaarten
comparing to how likes are used on facebook, there is usually not much consideration going into them
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barnabywalters
erikmaarten: which is dependent on how they’re displayed and how they influence future content
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barnabywalters
has lots of thoughts hashed out from previous IRC conversations about this which need writing down
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erikmaarten
well, yes
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erikmaarten
it quite depends :)
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erikmaarten
I think I haven't been very optimistic about likes because of the facebook-y connotations
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erikmaarten
but thinking of it that way is probably just a bad habit
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erikmaarten
barnabywalters: wouldn't it be good if likes were somehow restricted? So that each like would be more valuable?
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@sandeepshetty
The Recent Mentions page on #converspace now links directly to the mention id anchor on the post page http://www.sandeep.io/mentions #indieweb
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: you around?
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pfefferle
sandeepshetty: yo
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sandeepshetty
yo! I'm seeing duplicate mentions on http://www.sandeep.io/mentions from you... problem at your end or mine?
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sandeepshetty
and did you resend an older mention?
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pfefferle
at my… you can delete the one with the date in the url
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pfefferle
i posted it on the wrong section
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sandeepshetty
sorry haven't looked into my db yet.. was the date on the target or source?
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sandeepshetty
also there seems to be some cruft in your gravatar link... it's got the link itself again as a query params... I think you can remove that.
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sandeepshetty
I'll actually finish implementing delete tonight so you can delete it yourself :)
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pfefferle
i tried
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pfefferle
didn't work out
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pfefferle
the gravatar thing comes from wordpress…
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sandeepshetty
I meant *will* be finishing tonight
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pfefferle
any ideas?
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sandeepshetty
I tried removing some of the cruft and it still works so there seems to be some bug in it
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barnabywalters
erikmaarten: how were you thinking? certainly this is something I’ve thought about in the past (flattr, restribted “love” vs limited like, tangible like outcome such as printing), but all of those are either silo-specific or dependant on implementations
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barnabywalters
“value” of likes is difficult to judge
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barnabywalters
and what is the benefit of it?
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: RE converspace#2 should be a config issue.. most probably with the domain..
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barnabywalters
which is why I personally prefer more tangible verbs like bookmark
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pfefferle
sandeepshetty: that means?
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: also RE http://notizblog.org/replies/converspace-activity-syntax/ it basically one post type but does some special handling based on machine tags: http://indiewebcamp.com/plaintext#Experiments
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: what have you setup on your development.conf.php file?
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: put it in a gist.. we can edit it there..
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sandeepshetty
the whole file..
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: BTW this was about the gravatar link http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-27#t1372339205
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: is this (http://127.0.0.1/converspace/) where its installed on your system?
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pfefferle
the site runs perfectly until the persona login is finished
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sandeepshetty
wait lets do this in the task and not create noise on IRC
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: I think I know what the problem is.. comment on the issue
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sandeepshetty
s/comment/commented
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Loqi
sandeepshetty meant to say: pfefferle: I think I know what the problem is.. commented on the issue
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erikmaarten
barnabywalters: Well, I don't know how to go about creating such a system. If it's a distributed system, it seems everybody can just make an implementation that doesn't take any limits into account. Or if everybody had their own 'like' aggregator on their own site, one could figure out values of likes according to one's personal standards. That might work out, and in that case no limits would have to be imposed on anyone. That
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erikmaarten
might be very resource-intensive though, except for figuring out the likes targeted at oneself.
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pfefferle
sandeepshetty: jiha! thanks
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sandeepshetty
did it work?
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pfefferle
but now i got "Sorry! Error while saving post!"
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erikmaarten
barnabywalters: and I quite like the flattr-style dilution of influence, though I don't think it's ideal for donations ...
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: reopening the same task
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: Converspace hasn't been packaged yet to be used by others... but I'm glad you installed it.. motivates me to work on it :)
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barnabywalters
sandeepshetty: that is one of the few good reasons I’ve heard to open-source entire products instead of just useful components
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sandeepshetty
yeah it's part of the reason I open sourced it from the start :) plus IMO, it's always better to get as many eye on code as possible.. like how pfefferle caught the fact that I wasn't validating that the u-like/repost wasn pointing to target
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pfefferle
ok, now it works! can you tell me how to load the as-view?
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sandeepshetty
you mean for a post?
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sandeepshetty
just add .as to the url
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sandeepshetty
.mf2 will give you the mf2 json
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pfefferle
Matching handler function not found
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: 127.0.0.1/1.as?
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: I meant 127.0.0.1/converspace/1.as
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pfefferle
aaaahhh… ok, thought there was one for the home
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barnabywalters
I use /index.fmt for my index page
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sandeepshetty
nope.. only posts have them...
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pfefferle
oh! craches if i use a unknown handler… ups
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sandeepshetty
barnabywalters: I have to get around to that soon...
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: ?
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barnabywalters
sandeepshetty: really it’s only for two things: people wanting to play with my data by hand, and for my JS to get a copy without having to make a separate API
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barnabywalters
I don’t actually expect any standards/implementations to use that data
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barnabywalters
s/expect/want
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Loqi
barnabywalters meant to say: I don’t actually want any standards/implementations to use that data
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pfefferle
thats my json version
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sandeepshetty
barnabywalters: Haven't got around to it becuase you just get it from my homepage using php-mf2
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barnabywalters
sandeepshetty: exactly, that’s how everyone should get all data off our sites. .json URLs are good for debugging or quickly playing with data
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pfefferle
ah ok barnabywalters uses the mf2 array instead of as
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: I tried using AS for a while and got annoyed with it
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pfefferle
yes… i loved the atom version until they switched to json
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sandeepshetty
I'm toying with the idea of interop with pump.io using AS json...
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pfefferle
but i implemented it far before mf2 was specified...
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sandeepshetty
that way I get to explore/lern pump,.io as well
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barnabywalters
if/when there’s actual, tangible value in publishing DRY-violating copies of my data I might start publishing it
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barnabywalters
sandeepshetty: can pump subscribe to arbitrary AS-JSON feeds or do you have to do message posting and other infrastructral stuff too?
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: funny I didn't get a fatal error for http://127.0.0.1/converspace/1.xyz
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pfefferle
disabled in your php.ini?
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barnabywalters
status.net could always subscribe to AS-ATOM feeds if they were PuSH enabled
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sandeepshetty
barnabywalters: IIRC, you have to push AS to it and receive AS
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: nope.. on dev I have E_ALL
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barnabywalters
sandeepshetty: data has to be sent on the wire? that seems unwebbish
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pfefferle
sandeepshetty: i added a lot of work in the ostates thing, until they switched to pump.io… don't know if i will do it once again
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barnabywalters
but I suppose it is a “stream server”
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sandeepshetty
barnabywalters: yeah plus there isn't a hub.. that's one of the reasons it's written in node.js i think.. to handle lots of connection
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: what was the line no on the fatal error?
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pfefferle
Fatal error: Cannot redeclare hcard_photo_fallback() (previously declared in /Users/matthias/Sites/converspace/templates/index.html.php:148)
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@caseorganic
@Moniker42 Mainly #pdxtech, #indiewebcamp and #nspdx iOS developers) and a bunch of private channels hosted on servers run by friends.
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: ok you have an older version.. haven't pushed yet.. pushing now...
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sandeepshetty
pfefferle: Pushed. I work directly on master because no one else uses it yet.. but I should move to feature branches soon...
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barnabywalters
bah. I want to make a service which sends webmentions for replies, retweets and favourites on twitter, but the twitter API just doesn’t accommodate it
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barnabywalters
you can get the favourite_count of a tweet but not the actual tweets which favourited it, same for replies, etc etc
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pfefferle
the favs aren't tweets
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: yeah, there might have been some way to verify them though
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barnabywalters
like looking on a users favourite list page
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pfefferle
yes, sadly the activities are not accessible
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barnabywalters
yeah, and there’s no “show me all tweets which are in reply to this tweet” endpoint
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barnabywalters
although actually we could crawl that from the web version…
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barnabywalters
hm, maybe there is some potential here
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barnabywalters
a little service which you hook up your feed to, and it periodically crawls the syndication permalinks for new replies. If there are new ones, it sends you webmentions for their permalinks
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pfefferle
i think you can find the linked tweets through the search api https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1.1/get/search/tweets
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barnabywalters
backfeed for free, based purely on open standards — no need for all creators to integrate with the API
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: I’m thinking it might not actually be needed, for replies at least
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barnabywalters
which IMO are the most interesting and valuable form of feedback
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pfefferle
i meant for track the users who mentioned one of your urls
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: yeah, that’s another thing the service could do
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barnabywalters
I’m finishing up my real work for the day, I might try to build this
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pfefferle
i am still at work :(
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: where do you work?
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pfefferle
thought about implementing webfinger-like into spreadly… every time you share a link, it send also a u-like to the shares page...
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pfefferle
s/webfinger/webmention
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Loqi
pfefferle meant to say: thought about implementing webmention-like into spreadly… every time you share a link, it send also a u-like to the shares page...
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: that would be very very cool! also have you seen http://indiewebcamp.com/friendly ?
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barnabywalters
moving, bbiab
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pfefferle
barnabywalters: oh nice, thanks!
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pfefferle
barnabywalters: had the idea of a mf2 PuSH hub yesterday evening… perhaps this gets my next spare-time project
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pfefferle
push the hub every time you wrote a new post, the hub parses the mf2s and pushes the json h-entry to the subscibers
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tantek
pfefferle - that would be sweet!
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tantek
I would switch to using that hub immediately.
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: that’d be one way to do it, IMO pubsubhubbub v2 or something like what I specced out on /pubsub would be more useful as a) it doesn’t limit content to mf, or even HTML and b) it leaves parsing mf to the client so they can use whatever parser and set it up however
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barnabywalters
it’d be great to see either get built though!
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barnabywalters
I have it in the “eventually” section of my todo list
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pfefferle
yes, the new spec is not type limited
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pfefferle
you can push any content you like
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pfefferle
vcards, html, ...
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pfefferle
and instead of <link rel /> they switched to the link header
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pfefferle
tantek: barnabywalters: perhaps i have some spare time at this weekend so i could have a look at the new spec and the google and superfeedr hub to figure out how to use them or if a mf2 hub would be more useful
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barnabywalters
pfefferle: that would be great! I’m currently working on the twitter reply webmention shim
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pfefferle
barnabywalters: let me know if you need a beta tester :)
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: what is the status of twitter handling in php-mf2-shim? I need it for a thing, just cloned it and ran tests
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aaronpk
it's not very full featured yet, but the structure is there
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aaronpk
I think it pulls out one property right now. Need to write a bunch more xpath/css queries
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: seems to be finding tweets twice… I’m going to fork + hack on it for a bit
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barnabywalters
making a service which shims reply webmentions for replies posted on twitter
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tantek
barnabywalters - that would be amazing
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aaronpk
oh, interesting
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tantek
would really help with reverse-syndication of silo replies from Twitter
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aaronpk
using the streaming API?
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: which fork of the shim is the canonical one?
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: ha, no not initially
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aaronpk
indieweb should be the canonical one
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barnabywalters
ideally without using the API at all
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barnabywalters
hence the shim
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aaronpk
ah! how will you find them then?
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barnabywalters
okay, forking
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: replies are shown on permalink pages ;)
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tantek
exactly - polling that
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aaronpk
well that works
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barnabywalters
one case in which the web interface (user needs) are better than the API (bizdev restricted crap)
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barnabywalters
you could even get favourites from the web UI (and not API), if only they had permalinks :(
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tantek
barnabywalters - are the faves / retweets not in the permalink page somewhere?
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tantek
the counts are certainly there
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tantek
and when you click retweets or favorites - there's a little div pop-up that shows you the people in order
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barnabywalters
tantek: yeah, but then it’s a like of your content from it’s POSSEd copy, which is just weird
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tantek
no weirder than a reply to a POSSE'd copy
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barnabywalters
I’m not ruling it out (I think there is another way too) but not as high priority as replies
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tantek
oh definitely
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barnabywalters
tantek: it is weirder as it’s YOUR possed copy of YOUR content favouriting YOUR content as someone else ;)
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barnabywalters
mirrored POSSE conversations make sense
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tantek
barnabywalters I don't think I followed that
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aaronpk
you mean the favorite itself doesn't have a permalink?
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barnabywalters
tantek: exactly :)
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: yes
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tantek
reverse-syndicating silo faves doesn't seem semantically much different than reverse-syndicating silo replies
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barnabywalters
tantek: it wouldn’t be if the favourites actually had permalinks
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tantek
ah - right, the lack of a silo fave permalink makes it not as interesting
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tantek
perhaps just the counts then, for silo faves / retweets
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barnabywalters
tantek: yep, that’s potentially valuable, but probably best left up to individual creators who want to implement it
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tantek
when I turn my "View on Twitter" link into a set of Twitter web actions, I could display the counts of existing faves/retweets next to those buttons.
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barnabywalters
idea of the shim is that we can pretty bolt on open standards to silos (with a little shimming of twitter)
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barnabywalters
tantek: great idea!
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tantek
yes that's a good approach
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tantek
barnabywalters - that's the concrete personal use case I have for polling the fave/retweets counts from POSSE tweet permalinks
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barnabywalters
tantek: sure, I’m totally wanting to build that now
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tantek
to show those numbers next to the respective Twitter-specific tweet actions
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tantek
barnabywalters - hah - you'll probably get it built before I do :)
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barnabywalters
I’m having major *too many things to build* problems — is this because I have a job and half a social life, or because my experience/my tools are lacking, I wonder
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tantek
btw - aaronpk, barnabywalters did you get a chance to compare the write-ups of "like" vs "favorite" that I did on the wiki?
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tantek
barnabywalters - the too many things to build problem is solved by putting it on the /Taproot page on the wiki
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tantek
and prioritizing there
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barnabywalters
tantek: hah, syncronicity — was actually going to do some research on exactly that. where is it?
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tantek
as aaronpk and I have done with /p3k and /Falcon respectively
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aaronpk
tantek: no didn't see that yet
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barnabywalters
after ranting extensively about it on IRC a few days ago
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tantek
just keeps braindumping to the wiki assuming everyone watches recent changes :)
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barnabywalters
I watch the IRC logs, not recent changes
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tantek
the recent changes are often richer than the IRC logs
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@benwerd
So, uh, I had a whole SMS conversation with an unknown number using just the word "chicken" last night. Was it you? #indiewebcamp
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tantek
basically I check both of those before I jump in the channel in the morning
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tantek
benwerd LOL - I know who it was :)
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tantek
and it wasn't me :)
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tantek
there's a REALLY big hint in the IRC logs from yesterday ;)
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benwerd
goes to check
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benwerd
is a serious web professional
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barnabywalters
argh I never thought I’d say this but I actually don’t like CSS selectors for this job
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barnabywalters
because xpath does relative queries
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aaronpk
but xpath is so ugggllyyy
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: the mf parser wouldn’t exist without relative queries
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barnabywalters
if xpath just had a way of doing sane class selectors it would be more bearable
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aaronpk
you can just switch out with xpath where you need, the library I found just converts a css query to xpath
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aaronpk
yea the class selectors in xpath are super annoying
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aaronpk
i really need a filter that prevents my "b 22" messages from going to IRC
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barnabywalters
what are they?
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aaronpk
my IRC client is controlled entirely by keystrokes, so that's me trying to switch to tab 22
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aaronpk
i missed the preceding "/"
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barnabywalters
and whilst I’m ranting, what is it with twitter and weird amounts of blank lines?!
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barnabywalters
16 blank lines inbetween the last attribute and the > — WTF?
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barnabywalters
newspaper sites do it too, but why?!
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aaronpk
must be an artifact of their html generator
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aaronpk
some of my html does that too sometimes
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tantek
artifact of their templating system
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aaronpk
like when I have <?= ($condition ? '<stuff>' : '') ?> then it prints a blank line if the condition doesn't match
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tantek
really needs to build support for replying to indieweb posts and not just tweets.
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tantek
cc: benwerd
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benwerd
will get to it too (I can manually do it, of course, but I'd prefer if it was invisible)
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aaronpk
wants a self-hosted cloudapp
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tantek
benwerd - do your replies not send webmentions automatically?
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benwerd
tantek - they do - but, eg, if someone has posted to twitter with a link to their indieweb original, the reply doesn't also go to the original automatically
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benwerd
or vice versa, if I reply to an indieweb post and there's a syndicated link to twitter, the twitter reply isn't automatically linked to the tweet
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KevinMarks
what's a self-hosted cloud app?
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benwerd
that, yep
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KevinMarks
a webserver in your clothing?
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tantek
KevinMarks - it better be elastic clothing
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aaronpk
http://getcloudapp.com/ just really simple photo / file sharing
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aaronpk
i use flickr for that right now, sometimes dropbox
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benwerd
Oh, hey, Webmention for Elgg. Good luck getting that accepted into core.. https://github.com/mapkyca/elgg-webmention
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KevinMarks
oh, cloudapp is a brandname.
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aaronpk
yea, kinda a weird name honestly
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KevinMarks
sounds like camlistore is close to that
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aaronpk
screencast -> .mov -> .gif -> URL
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KevinMarks
cries that GIF is still the dominant video standard
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Loqi
hehe
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benwerd
KevinMarks: don't. even. get. me. started.
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benwerd
GIF is literally the only format that is guaranteed to play across browsers
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KevinMarks
have you noticed that no image sharing site considers SVG to be an image format?
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aaronpk
i think the recent explosions of social video sharing with short clips (vine, instagram) will help a single video format emerge as the new "standard" to replace GIFs
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barnabywalters
KevinMarks: yeah, that’s pretty sad
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KevinMarks
aaronpk: you might think that... I think they're both using mp4 underneath
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benwerd
Honestly, it's really got to be h.264 MP4, but the patent issues around that are heinous
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KevinMarks
h263 is patent free
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barnabywalters
but, much as I hate to say it, I often prefer to use gif and raster images purely because they are tangible
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barnabywalters
you can barely drag and drop a SVG onto your desktop and then do anything with it, let alone video
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benwerd
the problem is hardware support - just about every piece of consumer video hardware produces mp4 now
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barnabywalters
raster images and gifs are tangible and understandable — everyone can grab an image and do something interesting with it
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barnabywalters
bar is *much* higher for SVG and real video
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benwerd
barnabywalters: video really should be the same way. In my day job (i.e., what I should really be doing right now) that's what we're trying to do
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KevinMarks
this is why I'm crying, given that QuickTime was over 20 years ago
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barnabywalters
benwerd: trying to make video more tangible? that would be amazing
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KevinMarks
and actually solved this problem well
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benwerd
KevinMarks: even working with QT files is a pain though, although the format's great. The libraries are closed, so, eg, munching a QT reference file becomes a much harder task than it should be
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KevinMarks
yes, the closedness is the bug
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KevinMarks
and Apple Legal fucking things up with patents
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benwerd
I agree with that here, and in the most general case. Closedness *is* a bug.
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KevinMarks
mp4 took the QT file format, then ignored a lot of what was good about it (datarefs especially)
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benwerd
There are some great open source alternatives, but man, the politics, and the lack of hardware support are hard.
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benwerd
This is going to be interesting when an indieweb publisher tries to start publishing videos.
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: other nice thing about xpath relative queries is you can actually write reusable code
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tantek
benwerd - are you going to post short 6-15 second videos on werd.io?
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benwerd
tantek: I'm staying well away from video for now
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tantek
and POSSE them to Vine/Flickr?
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tantek
can you take a video from the browser on your phone?
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benwerd
I think creating an indieweb video uploader starts to get sticky for me
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tantek
like you can take a picture?
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KevinMarks
in theory, yes
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barnabywalters
closest thing to that I’ve done are my two little gifs: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/?tagged=gif
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benwerd
yes, but uploading it is a problem, because they're huge
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neuro`
Good evening KevinMarks termie aaronpk barnabywalters
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KevinMarks
hi neuro`
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barnabywalters
greetings neuro`
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benwerd
this is where latakoo could actually come in handy, but .. we'll see
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aaronpk
i really like the UI for video in instagram, I would want to have something similar for posting my own videos to my site
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benwerd
*nod*. Watch this space ;)
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KevinMarks
wishes they'd ban juvenile content
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barnabywalters
lol KevinMarks++
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tantek
sounds like another good citation for the /why page
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tantek.com
edited /why (+304) "blog was / is being removed"
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KevinMarks
aaronpk: which is he best of the current personal tracking gadgets again? The jawbone up?
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aaronpk
that's my favorite
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barnabywalters
first push to php-mf2-shim adds support for parsing tweet replies
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barnabywalters
battery dying, goodnight all
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Loqi
see you in the morning!
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aaronpk
tantek: this page seems like it should be marked up as h-cards http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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aaronpk
is there a timezone offset property for h-cards?
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tantek
aaronpk yes!
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aaronpk
tantek: looks like "tz" is listed under backwards compatible properties for h-card
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tantek
aaronpk and p-tz reserved I think
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tantek
guess I should expand on it then
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tantek
there you go
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tantek
aaronpk - this should be good enough for now: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card#Property_Details
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tantek
if we end up using p-tz on more than one page, then perhaps it's worth upgrading it from a "reserved" property to just another property in the list
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bret
has anyone been in contact with the pump.io folks?
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aaronpk
yea evanpro gave a talk on it at osbridge!
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aaronpk
he couldn't make it to indiewebcamp this year unfortunately
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bret
:( i missed so much by not going to that
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bret
maybe a video or audio archive will surface
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aaronpk
they will eventualy
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bret
aaronpk: does it sound like they are going to be able to talk to webmention enabled sites?
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aaronpk
yea I think evan said he would gladly accept a pull request that adds the proper mf2 markup
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bret
aaronpk: are you doing anything with activity streams?
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aaronpk
not really
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aaronpk
actually not at all
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bret
im kind of confused what it is
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aaronpk
I realized that none of the presentation on my site is third person, it's all just the content
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aaronpk
e.g. I never say "Aaron commented on ____" or "Aaron posted an article"
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bret
i kind of like that
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aaronpk
it was somewhat unintentional, but I like it too
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bret
its like there isnt some invisible mark z. in the room annotating what you have done
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bret
it puts the conversation in context of a more direct interaction
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bret
the iwc wiki article puts activity streams into context
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bret
still a little fuzzy though
#
aaronpk
bret: up for hacking tonight at Side Door?
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bret
Yeah! maybe. What time are you planning to be there?
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@erik_paulson
@southpolesteve there's some really cool stuff happening around #indiewebcamp that's in that wheelhouse
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aaronpk
bret: maybe like 6 or so
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aaronpk
5:30-6
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Loqi
!calc 5:30-6
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bret
Ill try to make it
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aaronpk
sweet. I'll be hacking on some more indieweb stuff, trying to get through my backlog
#
bret
Im pretty back logged from the week. The momentum from the weekend kind of distracted me from some other things that need doing
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aaronpk
haha yea
#
bret
this domain change is a huge headache. I dont ever want to deal with this agian
#
bret
all of these little settings everywhere
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aaronpk
I imagine a legal name change would be similarly annoying
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bret
oh god
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aaronpk
address changes are hard enough
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bret
you never quite are able to change all of those addresses associated airline frequent flyer accounts
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bret
i think its a rule of the universe or something
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aaronpk
in fact... I should probably fille out another change of address form from my old address since it's been >12 months and there was probably something I haven't changed the address on yet
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barnabywalters
aaronpk: I think working on mf2-shim will finally push me to implementing this: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QiLWq/
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benwerd
barnabywalters: that is a good and worthwhile project and I would use the hell out of that.
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barnabywalters
okay, consider it added to my todo list
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barnabywalters
dammit, every time I try making something cool I end up building another parser. how does this happen? :D
#
bret
need moar parsers
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barnabywalters
parse all the things
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Loqi
PARSE ALL THE THINGS http://loqi.me/7YW
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Loqi
goodnight!
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tantek
catches up on logs
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tantek
!tell barnabywalters re: wrapper around PHP DOMDocument - totally agreed. That's an itch of mine too, since I used PHP DOMDocument to read/write my storage files. I want to wrap it with actual JS DOM written in #cassis.js naturally.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek
Thanks Loqi
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Loqi
you're welcome
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aaronpk
is scheming ways to speed up indieauth.com
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bret
aaronpk, I'm not sure if I can make it out tonight actually, I might be able to join remotely later in the evening though
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aaronpk
ah cool
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bret
i like meeting up with folks for these kinds of sessions. We should start posting them as indieweb events
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aaronpk
agreed :)
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aaronpk
i might hack on that tonight
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aaronpk
so many things to do!
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bret
I started writing up some of the things I saw this weekend
#
bret
ill probrably finish that up tonight
#
aaronpk
then submit it to indienews! :)
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bret
right!
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bret
I dont even thing I have my article format marked up with MF yet
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bret
think*
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www.sandeep.io
edited /deleted (+2019) "/* 404 Discussion = */ debunk weak delete semantics of 404"
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#
www.sandeep.io
edited /deleted (+301) "/* Issues */ Another use-case for which there isn't a good solution for remote deletion."
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@benwerd
I'm going to eat burritos and talk #indieweb tomorrow night: http://werd.io/event/51ccc9ecbed7deaf58e8ff5e/indieweb-burritos
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pdurbin
KevinMarks: love it when you're on TWiG
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pdurbin
I've got a guy trying to explain Linked Data to me: http://irclog.greptilian.com/sourcefu/2013-06-27#i_9736
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pdurbin
I'm not sure I get it... but that's ok :)
#
aaronpk
really enjoying my new RSVP posting UI :)
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bret
aaronpk screenshot?
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benwerd
aaronpk - nice work!
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bret
totally great!
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aaronpk
tacked on to my existing posting UI even!
#
bret
i didnt know slugs were called slugs
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benwerd
I'm still in awe of the bar / coffee shop where you were working on that the other night - nothing like it in SF
#
bret
backspace?
#
aaronpk
seriously? i'm surprised!
#
benwerd
not that I'm aware of, anyway. partially the *space* that made it
#
bret
has anyone thought of autopopulating their posting fields some how? where should that happen? some kind of button on the page originating page? a browser plugin? content discovery from the reply url?
#
aaronpk
we've experimented with that a little already
#
bret
i dont like the idea of a reply button
#
bret
thinking about that now
#
aaronpk
I wrote a browser plugin that rewrites the twitter "reply" buttons to my own site
#
benwerd
I uploaded a screencast of some of my reply interfaces, and that was the main feedback I got
#
benwerd
"how can we avoid all that copy and pasting?"
#
KevinMarks
I'm thinking of making an app that eats the intents on android
#
bret
it feels weird putting an interface for somebody else on your web page
#
benwerd
KevinMarks: that would be really handy, particularly as (eg) there's no way of copying tweet permalinks from the Twitter app
#
bret
isnt there some kind of social api in firefox? would that be useful at all?
#
aaronpk
check out that video
#
bret
thank ill check it out
#
aaronpk
it's like 9 seconds long
#
aaronpk
i should have gif'd it
#
KevinMarks
the twitter app doesn't even handle the intents, it delegates them to the browser
#
bret
whoa
#
bret
how is that click getting intercepted?
#
aaronpk
browser plugin
#
KevinMarks
click that on android, it offers you twitter as an app (possibly among others)
#
bret
browser plugin sounds appropriate
#
bret
but it would be neat to find a way around one
#
KevinMarks
if you choose twitter, it bounces you out to the default browser, potentially requiring another login
#
aaronpk
it'd be even cooler if the browser plugin addded some new buttons in the menu for that, to avoid putting reply buttons on the web pae itself
#
bret
aaronpk have you looked at the social api at all?
#
bret
in firefox
#
aaronpk
no not yet
#
benwerd
aaronpk: in that particular case, it could just be a set of bookmarklets, tbh
#
aaronpk
yea true
#
benwerd
which could even be cross-browser
#
benwerd
which would be very nice!
#
aaronpk
i already use bookmarklets for a couple things like that
#
bret
i use bookmarklets for bookmarking pretty much 100%
#
bret
via pinboard
#
benwerd
something to consider.
#
bret
someone was talking about a javascript client side based website that lets you update jekyll blogs over the weekend, was that anyone who is around right now?