#indiewebcamp 2013-07-25

2013-07-25 UTC
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shaners how are people marking up attribution links from a silo (in this case, wordpress.com) that allows markup back to the original post ?
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shaners aaronpk: are you attribution links from POSSEd posts back to your site?
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aaronpk you mean like on twitter?
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shaners like that, but from a place that allows html
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shaners aaronpk: i put .u-syndication links from http://sbb.me/b4PF1 to http://wp.me/p1LP-1Pa. I want to link back FROM wp TO sbb.me. what rel / class are you/others using for the link back?
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shaners wycats_: i didn't know that you hung around these parts. howdy!
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bret I cant remember the name of this application platform. It was like heroku but had a main emphasis on html5 applications... ring a bell for anyone?
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tantek !tell shaners re: "attribution links from POSSEd posts back to your site" that's one of the uses of rel=canonical
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell shaners, re: the gender/text-field/Diaspora post - that's an out of date point in the discussion. that plus input from other folks resulted in all the gender-* pages / research on the microformats wiki. the result was sex and gender-identity fields we made happen in vCard4, and thus h-card.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi shaners: tantek left you a message 11 minutes ago: re: "attribution links from POSSEd posts back to your site" that's one of the uses of rel=canonical
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Loqi shaners: tantek left you a message 9 minutes ago: re: the gender/text-field/Diaspora post - that's an out of date point in the discussion. that plus input from other folks resulted in all the gender-* pages / research on the microformats wiki. the result was sex and gender-identity fields we made happen in vCard4, and thus h-card.
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shaners tantek: attribution links should only use rel-canonical? or also a class too?
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@eschnou I don't think #indieweb and Google Analytics together make a lot of sense, felt some cognitive dissonance for ... http://eschnou.com/entry/i-dont-think-indieweb-and-google-analytics-together-make-a-lot-of-sense--62-24997.html
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@virer_dot_net RT @eschnou: I don't think #indieweb and Google Analytics together make a lot of sense, felt some cognitive dissonance for ... http://t.co/…
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tantek !tell shaners links from a POSSE copy to original are not just "attribution", it's more specific than that, hence rel=canonical. for linking from a copy to the original.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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neuro` Hello
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Loqi shaners: tantek left you a message 56 minutes ago: links from a POSSE copy to original are not just "attribution", it's more specific than that, hence rel=canonical. for linking from a copy to the original.
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@dikapratamaarya SSTCGO - DC 1.5 (Client): SSTCGO 1.5 was succesfully updated in indieweb community.Remember SSTCGO is in spani... http://www.indiedb.com/news/sstcgo-dc-15-client?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
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christopheducamp.com created /reply-context-fr (+8475) "[fr: first draft translation to be reviewed]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /reply-context-fr (-40) "[fr: ''Cette page a démarré sur [[reply-context]]'']" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /Comment-presentation-fr (+38) "r. comments-presentation-fr" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /comments-presentation-fr (+5435) "[fr: sync'd translation to be reviewed]" (view diff)
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iamshane.com edited /Homesteading (+4209) "added a very rough draft IndieMark section to the Homesteading page. formatting is not pretty." (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /why-fr (+915) "[fr: sync'd translation to be reviewed]" (view diff)
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erikmaarten_ eschnou: commented on your latest post, but it seems the comment permalink wasn't generated properly. The comment source seems to have been parsed though. Did I send something odd?
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eschnou erikmaarten_, it is because your first argument in the pingback xml rpc did not contain http://
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eschnou I received this: <string>erikmaarten.com/notes/2013/07/25/comment</string>
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eschnou I should be a bit more robust and add the protocol if not present, i'll file an issue about this
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Loqi yea
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cweiske eschnou, you should not accept invalid URLs
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cweiske the client should send proper messages
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cweiske you can't expect that it works when omit the scheme
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tommorris be liberal in what you accept and conservative in what you send. ;)
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cweiske that led to HTML as we know it
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erikmaarten_ eschnou: oops, will fix that!
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tommorris cweiske: the alternative view led to XHTML 2.0
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cweiske tommorris, the more liberal you are in accepting shit, the more shit you get
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eschnou cweiske, well, I agree with Tom, why reject people who take the time to ping me with interesting content... I should however take proper actions to fix it and maybe return a warning to them.
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cweiske no. they don't take time to ping
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cweiske their software pings you
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eschnou cweiske, I treat software as people :-)
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tommorris if you have a sane way of doing error handling, sure.
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tommorris like, if someone sends you a URL without a scheme but it contains things that are obviously URL-like, it makes sense to sniff that and correct it into a URL, then check to see if there's a linkback
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cweiske ok, how do you treat relative urls?
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cweiske source: http://example.org/foo/bar.html
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cweiske target: baz.html
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cweiske do you make target relative to source?
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cweiske do you check if there is a referer header and make source relative to the referer?
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cweiske to you make it relative to the xml-rpc endpoint url?
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cweiske how far do you go?
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tommorris that's a difficult problem
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cweiske and why are you stopping there?
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cweiske the only solution is to only accept full URLs
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tommorris well, the fact is that nobody is going to send relative URLs, so you don't have to worry about them. ;)
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eschnou cweiske, I have a totally different approach to these questions, much more iteratve, i implement what I need for my use case and then fix/patch depending on what people send me
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tommorris if someone sends you something that could be a relative URL or a broken absolute URL, you can treat it as a broken absolute URL
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cweiske .. thus send a fault back
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cweiske when the scheme is missing, do you try http first, then https?
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cweiske or only http?
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cweiske why http first, and not https?
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cweiske we're talking about software speaking with each other
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cweiske there is no need to bel lenient
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sandeepshetty I'm with cweiske on this. Throwing an error is also a fail fast approach that gives feedback to fix things that are broken
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neuro` The problem with relative url: what if they come from a central system managing a bunch of sites
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neuro` ?
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erikmaarten_ eschnou: will the ping/mention be reparsed if I send it again, or ignored/duplicated?
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eschnou erikmaarten_, I've deleted the mention, so you can ping again.
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kiakanpa hi
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erikmaarten_ sorry eschnou, managed to get the same result after adding scheme ... turns out I uploaded the wrong file to the server :) Would you mind removing that mention again?
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eschnou erikmaarten_, done!
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erikmaarten_ thanks, I'll try again!
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erikmaarten_ eschnou: success, at last! :) Thanks for your patience
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eschnou erikmaarten_, thanks for your efforts!! all this for a comment :-)
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erikmaarten_ well, from now on it should hopefully work smoothly!
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erikmaarten_ efforts for a bright future :)
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erikmaarten_ eschnou: by the way, isn't 40 characters a bit sparse for a comment?
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erikmaarten_ eschnou: Let me withdraw that statement, that's my fault for publishing a short summary ... had forgotten about that.
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erikmaarten_ (or p-name, rather)
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tantek aaronpk, how much work would it be to configure Loqi to *not* report page creations/deletions, user blocking on a per channel basis (I'm thinking in #microformats in particular) ?
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tantek (i.e. only report page *edits*)
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tantek (since most non-spam pages that are created get edited shortly thereafter, I think this would be fine)
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aaronpk that's a good idea
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aaronpk unfortunately that part of loqi is the most rudimentary... it's literally just the mediawiki recentchanges bot
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Loqi woot!
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aaronpk I don't know how much customization hooks are available in mediawiki for that. it'd have to be a setting in the wiki somewhere
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tantek but the channel to report changes to is in Loqi
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tantek couldn't it be an output filter?
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aaronpk that would involve me hacking at some perl code :(
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aaronpk or finally switching freenode loqi over to the new framework
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tantek e.g. if the output starts with "[[Special:Log/delete]]" or "[[Special:Log/block]]" then don't display it?
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aaronpk check out the "server_read" method here http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:MediaWiki-Recent_Changes-IRCBot
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tantek or has "New page: " (which would be fine in a coarse way)
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aaronpk that's literally how it works right now :/
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aaronpk I think the best thing would be for me to finish porting freenode loqi over to the new zenircbot framework, then it would be a lot easier to add this filter
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tantek has coded some perl in the past
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tantek so presumably I could add a filter by checking $ircmessage and then exiting before $irc->yield in that "server_read" method?
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aaronpk tantek: something like that. here's the actual code https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/6081167
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aaronpk so you could add more elsif's to the chain
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tantek oh cool
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tantek so it's already scoped to the microformats server
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aaronpk yep, heh
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aaronpk an ugly hack that has lasted like 7 years
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aaronpk Loqi: a/s/l
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Loqi 154217720/bot/internet
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aaronpk oh, 4.8 years, sorry
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tantek presumably I'd have to add an if test *inside* the "if( $ircmessage =~ m/^ACTION / )" right?
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aaronpk inside the very last else actually
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aaronpk ACTION is for when loqi does /me things
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek oh ok
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tantek then an elsif just *before* the very last else
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aaronpk yea, adding an elsif before the last else that catches the ones you want to ignore would work
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tantek ok cool. I'll try to write something up. going for a run!
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aaronpk cool! fork the gist and I'll see it there!
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JonathanNeal Good morning, Indies.
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aaronpk good morning!
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neuro` Hello aaronpk
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@julien51 #IndieWeb people: How do you consume other people's #indieWeb content?
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f-a via rss
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f-a I and consume my life via rss too, since I've got 200 of them feeds :s
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@silverton #PostPRISM mobile: every app copy/paste, view/save page-source, bandwidth $1/GB/mo, TOR-protected open tethering @IndieWebCamp
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neuro` In case you want to PESOS with your existing Twitter statuses, the global twitter export provides mainy interesting resources
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neuro` - JSON files per month
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neuro` - the JSON has both the shortened and long URL
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neuro` - every RT you did are also stored under the old form "RT..." so you can import that
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neuro` - every reply to related information you need to rebuild the conversation
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tantek neuro` - yes the twitter export has many useful things in it - good for backfilling. I wouldn't bother with PESOSing from Twitter though - much better (and not that hard) to POSSE to Twitter instead.
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tantek you should add the details you noted to this section in a subsection perhaps: http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Download_all_your_tweets
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Loqi yea
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neuro` tantek: will do. I'm POSSEing to Twitter, but I wanted to get my previous tweets as well.
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neuro` tantek: BTW, how do you POSSE RTs? Been thinking about this for a few days, only solution being classic RT @foo
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aaronpk if you know the tweet ID of the original, you could make an RT API request to twitter
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bret tantek, just bought a plane ticket to SF aug 6-9 :)
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neuro` Hmmm yeah. Implementation would be easy.
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neuro` aaronpk: thank you. Will think about it.
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neuro` Most of the remaining job on Publify is now making it user friendly to use (even more on mobile)
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bret also at oscon, there was someone giving a talk about POSSE, but I dont think they are directly involved with iw projects. I wonder if a video will come out of that session
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tantek neuro` - I wrote it up on the Twitter page :) (how to POSSE an RT) just a few weeks ago
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#POSSE_Reposts_of_Tweets
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tantek bret - awesome!!!
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tantek (re: coming to SF)
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tantek also - POSSE talk at OSCON by someone we don't know? (not in IWC community?) that's amazing too. glad to see the ideas spreading :)
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tantek URL to session description?
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bret I ran into will norris and he told me about it. He went to the github session at the same time though and missed it
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bret I didnt have an access badge to the sessions so I couldn't go
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bret tantek will try to find it hang on
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tantek cool
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bret tantek I *think* http://www.oscon.com/oscon2013/public/schedule/detail/31422
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neuro` tantek: awesome! thank you
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tantek neuro` see also how to POSSE favorites to Twitter :)
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tantek (sections after the reposts/retweets sections)
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tantek bret that is great!
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neuro` I was reading that, it's on my TODO
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neuro` However, next thing I want to do is connect with Pocket API
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tantek bret - could you add that session to http://indiewebcamp.com/events#recent ?
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bret sure :)
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tantek neuro` perhaps consider adding Publify to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects ?
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neuro` tantek: I planned to do so but wanted to add a POSSE implementation first
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neuro` will fill in documentation after lunch, my wife's asking me to spend less time on indie Web things :)
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tantek neuro` you should add it immediately and then just note on indiewebcamp.com/Publify that you want to add a POSSE implementation!
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tantek oh dear - yes, please be sure to keep up with those priorities :)
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bret.io edited /Events (+333) "/* 2013 */ Added federated POSSE talk from oscon to events page" (view diff)
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bret tantek, I'll let Harry know I am coming for sure. I would be interested in doing a demo of another (besides ben's, aaron's and yours) indieweb implementation if its appropriate. I have mobile friendly, form based posting working now, and mentions displaying automatically. Webmentions still are manual.
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t37.net edited /projects (+746) "Adding Publify as an indie Web project." (view diff)
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neuro` !tell donpdonp Please, can you add yourself as a Publify (formerly Typo) user at http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Publify please?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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neuro` Now's real lunch time, ttyl
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donpdonp aaronpk: indieauth is failing for me, logging in with donpark.org, selecting github, github.com/donpdonp has <a class="url" rel="nofollow me" href="http://donpark.org/">
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Loqi donpdonp: neuro` left you a message 1 minute ago: Please, can you add yourself as a Publify (formerly Typo) user at http://indiewebcamp.com/projects#Publify please?
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donpdonp error: "
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donpdonp Parameter "profile" must be one of the rel=me links in the site specified in the "me" parameter
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donpdonp neuro`: oui.
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donpdonp (as soon as I can login)
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aaronpk donpdonp: try clicking the bottom github button
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aaronpk donpdonp: let me know if that works
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neuro` That thing is funny https://towtruck.mozillalabs.com/
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t37.net uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:frederic-de-villamil-large.jpg]]""
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bret aaronpk are you going to day 1 of the W3C open social workshop?
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aaronpk i'm flying in on the 6th
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aaronpk so I believe so
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bret some of these talks look abstract
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aaronpk indeed
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@eschnou @julien51 1) twitter 2) rss and soon by polling their site and extracting json from mf2 markup. WIP. #indieweb
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bret all the stuff I am would be interested is on the second day
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t37.net edited /User:T37.net (+1016) (view diff)
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t37.net edited /Twitter (+276) "Add information about PESOS a Twitter history from the Twitter archive" (view diff)
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neuro` Hello musigny
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musigny hello neuro`
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neuro` How are the Alps going?
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musigny well well! nice people and projects around EPFL and Geneva university
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@CraigSJ Michael_Jackson_eating_popcorn.gif at the whole indieweb today. Y'all are getting weird.
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f-a :s
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musigny neuro`: do you plan to come around in the coming months? may be for the open knowledge conference in september in Geneva? :)
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neuro` musigny: I'd love too. Last summer I spent 2 weeks next to Chamberry, 2 and 3 years ago we were in Annecy, but this year we spent our vacation in the Pays Basque.
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neuro` I miss the Alps
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neuro` musigny: when is the conference
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musigny 16th-18th September
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musigny thinks that it could be great to have a #indieweb meeting "around" okcon
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neuro` Unfortunately I'm starting my new job sept the 15th.
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musigny neuro`: new job?? what a scoop ^^ after so many years with the same people/compagny
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neuro` Yup, joining the cool kids of Botify as a platform manager
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neuro` talk to you tomorrow dude, it's time to sleep
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f-a nite
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musigny neuro`: I will have a look on Botify. But we'll chat in 2 weeks: leaving tomorrow for 2 weeks online with my wife and my 3 children :)
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shaners aaronpk bret: did we ever decide a time/place to meetup this weekend?
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aaronpk I don't think so, no
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iamshane.com edited /Twitter (+141) "update your tweets archive" (view diff)
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bret it sounded to me that sunday morning would work, or maybe saturday evening
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bret but its up to you guys. My schedule is flexible on the weekend.
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donpdonp aaronpk: yes, the bottom github auth choice works!
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bret shaners: would saturday evening or sunday morning / afternoon work better for either of you?
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aaronpk bret: shaners: i'm busy saturday, sunday is better for me
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aaronpk donpdonp: sweet glad that worked. I will fix that bug in the near future
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bret aaronpk: I saw the Ersi booth at oscon :)
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bret esri*
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aaronpk oh cool! I haven't seen it yet, haha
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donpark.org edited /projects (+65) "/* Publify */" (view diff)
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barnabywalters just pushed: in-stream reply contexts http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes?tagged=reply
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aaronpk whoa nice!!
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barnabywalters which has the added side effect of including reply context mf data on stream pages
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bret barnabywalters: I love it. It looks really great!
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barnabywalters my mum complained about not being able to know what my replies were about (she hadn’t figured out how to get to permalink pages) so something had to be done
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barnabywalters thanks guys
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bret thanks mum
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aaronpk that's awesome. i should probably do that soon too
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barnabywalters I think I got past twitter’s weird in-stream conversation direction changes by completely separating each indididual conversation from each other
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barnabywalters aaronpk: it took about 5 mins as I’m reusing all the same styling from individual note pages :)
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barnabywalters so it should be equally easy for you
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bret barnabywalters: are you and aaronpk running the same software?
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bret or similar
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aaronpk interesting. I'm not sure that is necessarily true for me :)
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aaronpk no, totally different stuff, but we share a few libraries
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bret ah i see
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barnabywalters yep, very different
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barnabywalters but we’ve both released small, useful bits of software which we share around
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barnabywalters e.g. php-mf2, and mention-client
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neuro` mention-client is a nice piece to start porting web mention to other languages
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barnabywalters goodnight all
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Loqi sweet dreams
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@BarnabyWalters So I got in-stream reply contexts showing — perhaps summaries of #indieweb comments next? I like Facebook’s app… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4RBNk3/
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aaronpk I like how each of barnaby's notes are in a separate little white background, makes it convenient to put the grey reply above each
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tantek barnabywalters - sweet!!
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aaronpk looks really good
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aaronpk i'm trying to figure out how I could fit that in with my design
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aaronpk cause I don't have much of a visual separation between my notes in the list
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tantek aaronpk - I like what Twitter did
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aaronpk interesting, twitter separates out a tweet when you expand it: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3816/9366434567_a0103721d8_o.png
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aaronpk they also have horizontal lines between tweets
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aaronpk tantek: I never got to see this design, but when twitter was doing the inline contexts, what was the significance of the blue background? http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Twitter_home_page
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bret Its looks like additional visual grouping
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aaronpk what happens if there are two tweets with inline reply contexts in a row?
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bret thin grey line? I'm not sure I didn't actually see it just a guess
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donpark.org edited /projects (+3) "/* Publify */" (view diff)
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werd.io edited /idno (+159) "Adding to people using idno on their own site" (view diff)