2014-02-04 UTC
lukebrooker, brianloveswords, grantmacken and fmarier joined the channel
_46bit joined the channel
# 00:25 snarfed hey! yeah, that's probably a change i rolled out last night. bridgy h-entries now have p-names
# 00:25 snarfed for replies, they're a snippet of the full content
# 00:25 aaronpk i'm getting a little frustrated with the whole p-name vs p-content thing
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
# 00:28 aaronpk i think i'm preferring p-name over p-content in some cases
# 00:28 aaronpk when the content is actually an article, then I do want to show the p-name, not the p-content
# 00:29 aaronpk but it's hard to tell when the p-name is explicitly set vs automatically parsed
# 00:30 aaronpk not your fault, kind of the fault of the microformats parsing algorithm
# 00:31 aaronpk notice how amber's link doesn't highlight the title of her article, but barnaby's does
# 00:31 snarfed they are necessary, but they're just so uninteresting, at least to me personally
# 00:31 aaronpk no it's the critical piece in all this, we have to get it right
# 00:32 snarfed i'm just glad other people are more conscientious than me and get it right so i can just stand on their shoulders :P
fmarier, paulcp_, tilgovi and snarfed joined the channel
# 02:02 Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
# 02:02 tantek gRegorLove - yeah I'll write it up on the wiki as promised and hopefully that will make it more clear.
Akron, paulcp, marjolein, spinnerin_, tantek and snarfed joined the channel
DeltaWhy, snarfed and lukebrooker_ joined the channel
# 03:36 DeltaWhy anyone here use jekyll/octopress? I'm looking to move my site away from wordpress
snarfed joined the channel
# 03:39 DeltaWhy in particular I'm wondering if it would be feasible to have a dynamic posting interface on top of jekyll or if I should look at something else
# 03:46 Jeena good morning! Why can't I log in with IndieAuth to the Microformats Wiki?
npdoty joined the channel
# 04:18 bret I started with jekyll, but now moving away from it for a dynamic web framework instead
# 04:19 Jeena sometimes it is frustrating, I want to have program so much stuff but I just don't have the time to do everything myself :-/
# 04:20 bret Jeena: when you feel that, its a good time to figure out what you can work on that is imediately useful/better with the time you do have
# 04:20 bret sometimes its not as lofty, but it beats feeling that way :)
# 04:21 Jeena hehe yeah, I could ditch all the work for clients then I would have all the time in the world to do my own stuff :D
# 04:22 Jeena that is what I think is the cool thing about being rich, you don't have to please other people and can do what you yourself think is important/cool
# 04:23 bret it would be cooler if everyone could do that
# 04:24 bret tantek, maybe i can go when I get a real job )
# 04:24 Jeena that is what the unconditional basic income will be for in some distant future, perhaps
# 04:29 bret DeltaWhy: It is a great way to do static sites. Its kind of hard to do POSSE and distributed web interactions with beyond manual webmentions and webmention.io
# 04:29 bret but I can totally give you any pointers if you are trying to learn it
# 04:31 DeltaWhy yeah if I was just going to be blogging it would be no question, but if I want to add notes I'm not sure it's the right route
# 04:31 bret You can totally do notes! They just dont end up on twitter automatically
# 04:31 bret unless you build something that can figure out all of htat
# 04:33 DeltaWhy the main difference is for notes I would need a low-friction mobile-friendly interface since I currently tweet from my phone most of the time
# 04:35 DeltaWhy what I do like with jekyll is using simple yaml/markdown files as the source rather than a db
# 04:35 DeltaWhy makes backup and such really easy
# 04:36 bret its pretty cool to be able to go back to any point in history and see what the site is, and distributed offline development is pretty neat too, but what I really want is a way to update the site from any device
# 04:36 bret and the github online editor isn't cutting it
# 04:37 DeltaWhy yeah I'm just wondering if there's a good middle ground where I can write long-form in vim offline, and also post notes easily online
# 04:39 bret DeltaWhy: Idea... Its hacky as hell but if you set up a jekyll repository and ran the jekyll watch that output the rendered site into apache or nginx, it wouldnt be too hard to make a web interface that could present a form with the proper fields that could add a new post to the jekyll site folder
# 04:40 bret that way you get jekyll and a light posting inferface
# 04:41 DeltaWhy yeah that's sort of what I was thinking
# 04:41 bret Authenticate -> Webform -> save front-matter markdown file into the _post directory -> jekyll build --watch into a webserver folder
# 04:43 bret sounds rickety, but would probrably work to some degree
# 04:43 bret DeltaWhy: I've been dorking around with node/express using front-matter markdown files as a data store
# 04:44 DeltaWhy I think it would be fine for posting, but if I wanted to start adding webmention support, comments, etc. I may be better off building something from scratch
# 04:44 bret it might be a better place to start, or gain inspiration from... i have not had a chance to play with it yet
# 04:45 edrex i just tuned in to this channel, and I was like "hey, that conversation is relevant to my interests"
# 04:45 Jeena Or you could do it like flickr does, via email
# 04:45 edrex except, i kind of gave up on jekyll and prose while back
# 04:45 edrex prose had a bad rewrite
# 04:46 edrex and looks to be mostly unmaintained now
# 04:46 Jeena you can have a private email address which only you can post to because only you know the email address
# 04:46 bret I was adding some project pages to my site though, and I love how freeform it is... new markdown file and you just type and your site get bigger
# 04:46 Jeena and then if something comes in there you post it as a note, DeltaWhy
# 04:46 DeltaWhy that's not bad although I haven't really used node, more of a rails guy right now
# 04:47 bret DeltaWhy: Look for a rails/ruby project
# 04:47 edrex bret yeah, i think prose is really well designed
# 04:47 edrex i have contemplated forking it
# 04:48 bret the source is all crazy backbone stuff
# 04:48 edrex but it's not in my critical path right now
# 04:48 edrex before the rewrite there wasn't any backbone
# 04:48 edrex that posts to github?
# 04:49 bret i kind of wanted to get away from github
# 04:49 edrex yeah, so where would it post to?
# 04:49 bret or at least, have it as a side channel
# 04:49 edrex there is git http
# 04:49 edrex and then gitlab has a REST api similar to github
# 04:50 DeltaWhy I should probably just get something up with octopress and worry about it later - the majority of the work is going to be building the layout/theme
# 04:50 bret i would prefer to not have to host gitlab
# 04:50 edrex there is gitlab.com
# 04:50 edrex can't vouch for uptime, but it seems fairly solid
# 04:51 bret are you still using the other static generator?
# 04:52 edrex i haven't updated my blog in awhile. working on a couchdb app. going to loop back and clean up my blog probably this week
# 04:52 edrex but yeah, it is using harp and deploying to s3
# 04:54 edrex i've been digging couchdb lately
# 04:55 edrex well, it's not really a db
# 04:55 bret I'm still trying to catch up on my software engineering basics
# 04:55 edrex it's really an application server for client-side apps
# 04:55 edrex so you don't have to write your own serverside in Ruby or whatever
# 04:56 edrex I really like having a standard data storage and retrieval interface
# 04:56 edrex and with pouchdb, getting data back and forth from the client is pretty effortless
# 04:57 edrex couchdb has a similar focus to unhosted. but it's a lot farther along.
# 05:00 bret Is that different than what couch originally set out to make?
melvster_, snarfed and gregone joined the channel
spinnerin_, cweiske, tofferma1n, lukebrooker, thatryana, Nagahz and netweb joined the channel
tilgovi, tantek, Jihaisse and dvirsky joined the channel
# 08:46 jjuran The events page is out of date. It lists 2014-01-29 for the Homebrew Website Club meeting.
squeakytoy, eschnou and Sebastien-L joined the channel
glennjones, dietrich, pasevin, dvirsky, squeakytoy, melvster_, srushe, eschnou, jcbsnd, adactio, LauraJ, marcthiele, barnabywalters, edsu, the_merlin, joeysim, caseorganic, Sebastien-L, mko, marcthie_, CheckDavid and scor joined the channel
# 15:15 gRegorLove Is this note on http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention still valid, or should it be removed? "See the Webmention Spec (note: out of date as of 2013-10-17, resolved issues not reflected, fails to include rel=webmention) for a full description of the protocol."
# 15:16 gRegorLove The spec appears up to date to me. Perhaps that's when webmention.org wasn't just github?
# 15:21 cweiske it once was a separate page instead of a redirect
CheckDavid, bnvk, melvster_, LauraJ, Sebastien-L, benprew, tantek, jonnybarnes and tolstodum joined the channel
# 17:06 tantek so Twitter finally made their fonts consistent between lists of tweets pages, and tweet permalink pages
# 17:06 tantek (used to have some serif font on permalinks, and sans serif everywhere else)
squeakytoy joined the channel
npdoty joined the channel
_6a68 joined the channel
# 17:16 tantek and yet - all white default background / UI - that feels familiar ;)
# 17:17 tantek heh, the blue bird in the middle of the their header bar is not clickable. duh.
iangreenleaf and paulcp joined the channel
michel_v_, snarfed, inimino`, bnvk, bear and tolstodum joined the channel
# 18:08 EHLOVader interesting look at how trusting a silo for all your services, accounts, email, etc is a single point of failure and could turn disastrous
# 18:09 EHLOVader it is a fictional tale, like a copypasta/creepypasta story from message boards
paulcp joined the channel
# 18:17 gRegorLove Clicking the twitter bird at the top jumps you back to the top of the current page.
caseorganic and snarfed joined the channel
# 18:38 gRegorLove Talking to me, EHLOVader? I was referring to the home timeline or interactions. If you're scrolled down and click the twitter bird it takes you back to top.
# 18:42 EHLOVader bitlbee is one of the first things I will be adding to sovereign and contributing back
# 18:43 EHLOVader not throwing that together yet is holding up my edits for the wiki
hallettj_ joined the channel
# 18:44 snarfed maybe caused by the space in the permalink? replacing it with a dash has the same problem
# 18:45 aaronpk oh odd, yes that seems to be a problem with the space
# 18:48 snarfed so, the snippet there says humans.txt is in use by google, flickr, and others
# 18:48 snarfed and yet google and flickr's humans.txt files both say "this was made by lots of people! more details on our web site!"
# 18:49 snarfed i mean, it makes the case perfectly that it's a solution in search of a problem
# 18:49 EHLOVader it doesn't say "see our site for more info on who" it says "if you wnat to work for us here are our jobs"
# 18:50 EHLOVader in source of sites comments with "you think you could do better, here are our jobs, come do it"
# 18:50 snarfed at least it's pretty harmless. just seems silly to me, solution in search of a problem
# 18:52 EHLOVader often on corp sites where they wouldn't take kindly to outward shouts
# 18:54 snarfed aaronpk, your consolidated likes are looking pretty good! i'm jealous
# 18:55 snarfed looks like you combine likes and reposts and cap at 10 icons
# 18:56 aaronpk not sure why there are only 10 icons showing up lol
# 18:59 snarfed ahh ok, so if the like and repost counts are duplicated, then 10 total, sure
# 18:59 snarfed maybe you're de-duping webmentions themselves but not their counts
dvirsky joined the channel
# 19:03 gRegorLove I have a humans.txt, but I was wondering about it last night as I was working on webmentions. Could be a problem with rel=author lookups that look for an h-card.
_6a68 joined the channel
# 19:04 gRegorLove I forgot I had it and admittedly just added it at the time because it seemed interesting. Probably not very useful.
# 19:07 aaronpk was simple, forgot to urldecode when comparing the request with the canonical post
# 19:09 snarfed yeah, it retries individual wms 30 times and 3 days, whichever is longest
tantek, KartikPrabhu, eschnou and LauraJ joined the channel
Acidnerd, KartikPrabhu, LauraJ, scor and paulcp joined the channel
skinny, gRegorLove, tilgovi, LauraJ, tantek and chloeweil joined the channel
# 22:24 tantek aaronpk - I just resent a webmention for the comment on that post of yours and it added a *new* comment!
# 22:25 tantek I should say - I just copy/pasted the URL into the form at the bottom of the post
# 22:26 aaronpk odd, why does it think the url is tantek.com/2013/?
# 22:26 aaronpk nah all it does is make a post request to the webmention endpoint
poppy joined the channel
# 22:28 tantek uh, I think there might be a problem with your webmention receiving processing
# 22:30 aaronpk i'm supposed to be storing each mention individually, but only rendering unique ones
# 22:31 tantek the first webmention there just has the link to my site, and no icon, but correct permalink on the date
# 22:31 tantek the three I submitted through your web form have my icon and comment content etc., but permalinks are all truncated at /2013/
# 22:32 aaronpk there's something wrong with determining the URL though, cause the permalink says /2013/
# 22:32 tantek that's only when I submitted them through your webform
# 22:32 aaronpk but i have a feeling that's why it gets added multiple times
# 22:32 tantek the first one (without icon or comment content) has the right permalink
# 22:34 tantek stops sending duplicate webmentions with slightly different redirect URLs.
# 22:36 tantek I just copy pasted into your "Send Webmention" form
# 22:36 tantek from the initial comment that was there (just below the row of Twitter thumb-up icons)
# 22:36 aaronpk that should be identical to making a post request from any other source
# 22:36 aaronpk but yeah i probably need to test when the source sends a 301 better
# 22:37 tantek perhaps your webmention handling changed since the initial comment was webmentioned?
# 22:37 tantek since I'm pretty sure my markup didn't change (that much?) since then, and yet you're finding more info at that permalink now
# 22:37 aaronpk ah yeah I probably have an updated version of php-mf2
# 22:39 tantek goes to indiewebcamp.com/webmention to add some more implementation guidance
# 23:01 tantek.com edited /webmention (+567) "improve definition per webmention.org, add explicit implementation note - must follow redirects, move FAQ to near issues, keep "Why" at top" (
view diff )
# 23:02 tantek ok aaronpk I explicitly added "must follow redirects" to implementation notes since it is a potential "gotcha"
# 23:06 tantek the black&white FB like icon next to the row of icons with the Twitter bird "stamp" on them is certainly a bit cognitively dissonant!
# 23:06 aaronpk mostly just cause I am not syndicating anything to FB so there are no FB mentions yet
# 23:07 aaronpk but in reality all profile photos from twitter users have the logo on them now, not just the ones in the "like" section
# 23:07 aaronpk and not many people are sending "like" posts from their own sites yet
# 23:07 tantek originally I was trying to resend the webmention to hopefully see my comment there updated/expanded with icon and comment text BTW
# 23:08 aaronpk me either :( I thought I was handling that properly
# 23:09 tantek also I think it was the first time trying your shiny "Send Webmention" form :)
# 23:09 tantek I was excited to be able to update your post purely using the UI on the post itself!
tilgovi joined the channel
# 23:24 snarfed aaronpk, fwiw i've started sending likes from my own site. mixed results so far. 0/2 with no content, 1/2 with content
# 23:27 aaronpk how did I manage to break all of my webmention handling
# 23:27 snarfed lol. don't stress, like handling is way way early
# 23:27 snarfed probably most people who actually do it are overfitted to bridgy right now
# 23:27 aaronpk i need a test suite to run against my site or something
# 23:29 snarfed if you have a local/staging install of your site, i can imagine pointing something at it and letting it generate a bunch, with different types, then telling you what to check for
# 23:30 aaronpk HA it's cause of your single quotes, and i'm using a regex to check for the link *headdesk*
# 23:32 aaronpk that's the *only* thing I use a regex for, to check for the presence of a link before running it through the actual mf2 parser
lukebrooker and tantek joined the channel