#indiewebcamp 2014-03-03

2014-03-03 UTC
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snarfed interesting. "…Everyone should be identified by a URI…That premise turned out to be wrong
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snarfed ordinary human beings apparently don’t think of themselves as Resources that need Uniform Identifiers, or some such."
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snarfed https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2014/03/01/OpenID-Connect
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snarfed i have to admit, i kind of agree with him
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tantek snarfed, nope, he's making the "mass adoption" mistake: http://indiewebcamp.com/antipatterns#mass_adoption
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tantek also, one does not prove a negative by providing examples of failure
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tantek so his logic is also wrong
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snarfed oh, definitely, but we're conflating a few different things
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snarfed i think we're doing the right thing by building for us, not for the "mass audience"
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tantek just because ALL OpenID UIs sucked, it doesn't mean that URLs intrinsically have any problems whatsoever
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tantek it's a classic mistake that (perhaps former) OpenID enthusiasts are making (repeatedly)
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tantek but that's their mistake to puruse
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tantek s/puruse/pursue
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Loqi tantek meant to say: but that's their mistake to pursue
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tantek :)
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snarfed to be fair, he wasn't saying URLs had inherent problems, just that the average (non-technical) person did currently think of themselves as an email address, but not as a URL
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tantek sure, and they didn't think that either, before email became popular
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snarfed assertions about the "mass audience" like that are always debatable
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snarfed true!
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tantek another classic mistake pattern
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aaronpk email has always had a better UI than OpenID
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tantek forgetting that new tech / identity is always awkward at first
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snarfed of course
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tantek aaronpk HAHAHAHAH you're kidding right? when was the last time you walked through all the screenshots of setting up a NEW email account?
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tantek it's total crap
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aaronpk i didn't say it was *good*
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tantek anyway, this is an FAQ for us: http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in#Why_not_email - Tim Bray is just flat out wrong on this point.
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tantek snarfed, aaronpk, in particular it sounds like you may be hearing a variant of: http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in#But_emails_are_widely_understood
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tantek and http://indiewebcamp.com/Why_web_sign-in#But_everyone_has_an_email_address
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snarfed i agree that concluding "don't design for URI identities" is probably wrong
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snarfed but i have to also agree that *currently*, people get email addresses as identity but not URIs as identity
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snarfed which makes me all the more happy that we don't care about that and do it anyway, for ourselves to start
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tantek snarfed - well, he's welcome to go explore the non-URI-identity design space. I mean, *I* think it's a waste of time and doomed to fail, but his exploring it will help map that out too.
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snarfed for all the reasons you mentioned, tantek
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snarfed sure
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tantek it's always a surprise when well experienced people like Tim Bray fail to take a long term technology adoption overview.
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tantek and not realize: "Email is simply the current such transitional legacy technology."
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snarfed yup, fair
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tantek long term = decades, not years.
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tantek and he has plenty of decades of experience. maybe insufficient reflection?
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snarfed well. difference of opinion. :P
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tantek I remember when (non-tech) friends made fun of me for saying that everyone would have an email address and use it (nearly) daily.
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tantek so I've been here before ;)
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snarfed sure, of course
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snarfed but plenty of other things *didn't* catch on
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tantek snarfed, difference of opinion? on what? the patterns I pointed out about landline # -> fax # -> email? that's more than just opinion.
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tantek that's the longterm perspective that's apparently lacking from the anti-URI-identity crowd
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snarfed sure. difference of opinion on what will catch on, which patterns to pay attention to, etc.
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snarfed one conclusion i take is that picking winners is hard. email won, but lots of others didn't. it's too early to say whether URIs for people is a winner or not.
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snarfed i hope so! but we don't know yet.
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tantek snarfed "lots of others"? like?
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snarfed are you kidding? history of tech is littered with failures
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tantek specifically in the identity space
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snarfed winners are the exception, not losers
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tantek hence the pattern I pointed out
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tantek "tech" sure. The pattern I pointed out is very focused.
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snarfed sure! my point is that we can only identify those patterns in hindsight
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snarfed still. email is old enough that we can call it. URIs, not yet.
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tantek we can see the benefit/adoption curves and extrapolate from there.
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tantek in identity in particular
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snarfed sure. and sometimes that gets it right, sometimes not.
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snarfed regardless, we're mostly agreeing violently. i *love* that we don't use arguments like tim's for deciding what to design
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snarfed so i'm with you there
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tantek right, we document them, and then encourage experimentation in the space
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snarfed exactly
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tantek as long as people aren't doing things that are *obviously* wasteful
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tantek e.g. doing extra work for microdata or RDFa or JSON-LD as compared to microformats2
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tantek alternatives that are more work and provide no benefits are ignorable
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tantek the only motivator for that that I've found is the selfdogfood principle
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tantek motivator/reinforcer
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tantek people that don't need to build things themselves tend to design far more complicated shit
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snarfed definitely
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snarfed on a totally unrelated note, this is kind of hilarious, on so many levels: https://snarfed.org/gp_orkut.png
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tantek wow that's meta
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tantek From Tim's post: "OIDC assumes you’ll identify people using email addresses, which isn’t perfect but app-builders like it
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tantek and bothers people less than URIs. " <--- and yeah, Persona is/was about 2+ years ahead on this.
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tantek snarfed, note that Tim's post fails to mention Persona at all.
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tantek So I dismiss his reasoning/predictions etc. based on that alone.
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tantek He failed to do sufficient homework.
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snarfed well
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tantek But he's welcome to go try to validate Persona's "failure"
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snarfed i'm sure he knew of persona
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tantek so then why didn't he mention it in his blog post which discussed history of these things?
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snarfed i doubt he thinks it "failed," but maybe that it's too early
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snarfed most good writing doesn't try to be exhaustive :P
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snarfed good for encyclopedia articles, not so much for blog posts
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tantek so in 1-2 years we'll see a post about OIDC similar to: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Identity/Persona_AAR
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tantek snarfed - it's not a matter of being exhaustive
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tantek it's a matter of bad science
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tantek of leaving out an OBVIOUS similar/same approach
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tantek hence why I quoted the above sentence
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tantek failing to cite priori similar/same work/research in your field is reason to dismiss a paper
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snarfed true, yeah. it is one of the few obvious alternatives worth mentioning.
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tantek s/priori/prior
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Loqi tantek meant to say: failing to cite prior similar/same work/research in your field is reason to dismiss a paper
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tantek snarfed, IMO this is partly due to Tim working at Google
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tantek I've noticed from some (maybe most? not all certainly) Googlers that there's a level of arrogance that translates into ignoring others' efforts at similar things.
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tantek ignoring or dismissing
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tantek so he may be succumbing to some of that culture
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tantek so it's good that he's leaving. we'll see how long his perspective takes to reset.
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snarfed yeah, maybe. imho it's usually not arrogance as much as working somewhere with extreme NIH
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tantek snarfed - yes, the two are often hard to distinguish.
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snarfed google builds *so much* itself, they don't get the chance to work regularly with external stuff
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snarfed eh, maybe. arrogance is kind of an ad hominem :P
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snarfed but regardless, point taken
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tantek !tell aaronpk, snarfed thanks so much for uploading the FB mobile web event screenshots!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed welcome!
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 14 seconds ago: thanks so much for uploading the FB mobile web event screenshots!
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tantek_ snarfed re: arrogance, indeed, hence labeling a culture/company as being (tending to be) arrogant rather than a specific individual, which would be ad hominem
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tantek_ so glad you guys were able to screenshot the "old" FB mobile web event UI! (switching to a more productive topic :) )
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snarfed heh
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tantek_ it's so much nicer than what they changed to
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tantek_ they lost the nice map bar in both mobile and "large" UIs. so sad.
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tantek_ I'm using what you uploaded as inspiration for my indie event UI design
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tantek_ i.e. what my event posts will look like
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tantek and now that they've made THEIRs look worse, I have even more incentive to get my implementation working
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snarfed true!
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tantek it's a powerful story to tell - that the indie web can pick and choose from the best of what silos invent
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tantek or design
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tantek and then when the silos inevitable gunk up or otherwise regress their UIs, the indie web can keep doing better.
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gavinc tantek: so reading the event wiki, as of yet no one's got RSVPs/events POSSEing to FB without doing it twice?
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tantek what do you mean by "twice"?
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gavinc post it yourself, post it on facebook
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tantek that's called manual POSSE
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gavinc Yes.
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tantek what you're seeing with event posts right now
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tantek ideally the "post it on facebook" step is done automatically by your server
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tantek as a bunch of us do with automatic POSSE of notes to Twitter (and FB, and other kinds to other silos)
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tantek but nearly everyone with nearly every post type starts with manual POSSE
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gavinc Yeah, was starting to get into facebooks API for that
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tantek nice
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tantek manual POSSE is a good way to get a feel for what you want your automatic POSSE to do
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tantek there's lots of design to do for each silo and post type to silo
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tantek to POSSE
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tantek there's URL design, microcopy, abbreviation/ellipsing, permalinks, defaults for silo fields
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gavinc Sadly my current answer is event.md file + Google Calander Add + Facebook event, and none of the events really connect very well
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gavinc It goes okay until there's an update to the event ;)
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tantek Google Calendar is shit for that unfortunately
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tantek it's interop with anything else event related is very poor
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gavinc indeed
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tantek it can't even get its own interop with its own way of doing things, and staying in the "google" world
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tantek e.g.: http://tantek.com/2013/351/t1/no-gmail-event-google-calendar-sucks-identity
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tantek did I mention Google sucks at email identity?
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tantek unless you use a single Google gmail identity publicly for everything
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snarfed gavinc: shh, don't tell yet, but i have automatic posse for FB rsvps working
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tantek WOOT!
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Loqi yay!
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gavinc snarfed: ooooohhhh
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snarfed still pre-alpha, but i'm going to demo it at IWC SF this weekend
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tantek needs to build some stuff to demo ;)
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snarfed along with posseing Twitter retweets and favorites, FB comments and likes, etc
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snarfed tantek, true!!!
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tantek is hosting the W3C AB meeting @MozSF TW which will cut into his pre-IWCSF last-minute-hacking time.
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snarfed eh don't worry about it. you do more than enough with community organizing
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tantek snarfed, everyone must create and contribute. no exceptions. no excuses.
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snarfed community mgmt and writing are absolutely contributing
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gavinc tried to get someone else who has their own site and has working indyauth to go, but their too busy that weekend
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gavinc and since I haven't managed even a blog post since uh... October 2011. Ouch.
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KartikPrabhu !tell tanek: http://ruben.verborgh.org/phd/semantics/ A chapter in a thesis dealing with semantic hypermedia. Microformats make an appearance. Though this might be too much academic theorising for your tastes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu boo tell fail
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KartikPrabhu !tell tantek: http://ruben.verborgh.org/phd/semantics/ A chapter in a thesis dealing with semantic hypermedia. Microformats make an appearance. Though this might be too much academic theorising for your tastes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] http://unreally.com/2014/1622485150 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://unreally.com/2014/1622485150 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://unreally.com/2014/1622485150 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://unreally.com/2014/1622485150 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi tantek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 3 hours, 53 minutes ago: http://ruben.verborgh.org/phd/semantics/ A chapter in a thesis dealing with semantic hypermedia. Microformats make an appearance. Though this might be too much academic theorising for your tastes
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tantek KartikPrabhu - it's interesting that the academic papers are trailing the state of the art by about 2-3 years. That paper only mentions "classic" microformats and failed to notice / recognize microformats2 (generic syntax etc.)
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tantek !tell KartikPrabhu - thanks for the link. Always good to see how others outside a core community are interpreting the work that is being done. it's interesting in particular that the academic papers are trailing the state of the art by about 2-3 years. That paper only mentions "classic" microformats and failed to notice / recognize microformats2 (generic syntax etc.)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek catches up on logs
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tanek does this work?
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tanek hey Loqi
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Loqi tanek: KartikPrabhu left you a message 4 hours, 6 minutes ago: http://ruben.verborgh.org/phd/semantics/ A chapter in a thesis dealing with semantic hypermedia. Microformats make an appearance. Though this might be too much academic theorising for your tastes
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tantek all cleared out. thanks Loqi :P
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek !tell benwerd good to see more idno adoption - just saw unreally.com
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek ICYMI, the most retweeted tweet of all time (likely the most reposted post of all time on any platform/site/silo?) https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/440322224407314432
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@TheEllenShow If only Bradley's arm was longer. Best photo ever. #oscars https://twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/440322224407314432/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/440322224407314432)
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Loqi KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 5 hours, 24 minutes ago: - thanks for the link. Always good to see how others outside a core community are interpreting the work that is being done. it's interesting in particular that the academic papers are trailing the state of the art by about 2-3 years. That paper only mentions "classic" microformats and failed to notice / recognize microformats2 (generic syntax etc.)
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@aral @3rdEden @npmjs Time for a decentralised NPM? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/440480429070876672)
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KartikPrabhu adactio: Your links feed (specifically for CSS A/Z) shows the following error: "Notice: Undefined index: html in /var/www/includes/services/embedly/functions/getEmbedCode.php on line 61"
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adactio KartikPrabhu: Thanks for the heads-up. Should be fixed now.
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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barnabywalters morning tantek
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KartikPrabhu adactio: fix confirmed!
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KartikPrabhu morning tantek!
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tantek going to remind folks at Mozilla today about IndieWebCampSF
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tantek expect to get a few more sign-ups
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move past HWC to past" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-02-26-homebrew-website-club (+79) "SF RSVP URL" (view diff)
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tantek fascinating, the not-logged-in FB event web presentation is still the "old" one
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tantek I wonder if it's worth capturing the "not-logged-in" presentation as well
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tantek (there could be subtle differences)
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Loqi pfefferle: tantek left you a message on 2/28 at 11:54am: awesome work with the webmentions and reply context functionality! POSSE (especially POSSE threading) is definitely more challenging. Glad to hear you're looking at it, and looking forward to see you @-reply from your own site :)
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tantek aaronpk - how did you take the long iOS screenshot?
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/images/7/73/fb-event-iphone-mobile.png
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tantek is going to upload in 3 parts
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-03-03-fb-event-new-ui-1.jpg]]""
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tantek.com moved /File:2014-03-03-fb-event-new-ui-1.jpg to /File:2014-03-03-fb-event-new-ios-web-ui-1.jpg
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-03-03-fb-event-new-ios-web-ui-2.jpg]]""
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2014-03-03-fb-event-new-ios-web-ui-3.jpg]]""
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+384) "Added myself to remote participants" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /event (+388) "/* Silo Examples */ embed old and new iOS web UI screenshots, add a couple more regressions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+612) "add a couple of months of Homebrew Website Club placeholders so they show up in people's calendars" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF (+0) "direct link" (view diff)
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tantek Ben - could you create a Lanyrd event for http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF ?
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tantek see http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK for how we did it on that one
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tantek realizes he needs to disambiguate and !tell
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tantek !tell benwerd hey fellow indiewebcampsf co-organizer, could you create a Lanyrd event for http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF? (see http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/UK for how we did it on that one)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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caseorga_ tantek: will you be going to dconstruct this year and should we do an indiewebcamp there again?
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tantek caseorganic, yes, and Adactio is already reserving space at the new Clearleft offices for us for that :)
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tantek in fact, we've already put it on http://indiewebcamp.com/Events
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tantek just need to create /2014/UK :D
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tantek you're of course welcome to help co-organize, but I'm not going to explicitly ask you since I know you're already fairly overloaded. ;)
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tantek Awesome Scott Jenson is coming!
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tantek (this weekend)
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caseorga_ tantek: Scott Jenson is coming? YES! I love him!
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@t The very first IndieWebCampSF is this Friday & Saturday. Very limited space. RSVP and join us: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (ttk.me t4Us1) (twitter.com/_/status/440528697217798144)
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caseorga_ tantek: that's going to be fantastic. I think I talked with him about IndieWeb last year.
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tantek caseorganic - yes we did
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caseorga_ tantek: wonderful! so excited about that
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tantek he was at dConstruct - and I challenged him a lot to go forth with his own identity rather than tweeting everything
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tantek so looks like he finally signed up on the wiki!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Jenson.org :D
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tantek love this: "As a UX designer I loathe the fact that this is so damn hard. I want to fix that. "
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caseorga_ tantek: ok, good. aaron and i are doing calendar planning for 2014 right now and there's room to go do dConstruct. if either of us somehow spoke there it would make it super easy to get approval from Esri to go to dConstruct like last year, otherwise it may be a 50/50 chance
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tantek need more brave UX folks like that
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caseorga_ tantek: excellent!
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tantek caseorganic - you do know that dConstruct typically always has new speakers right?
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tantek (like I think only one person in its entire history has spoken twice)
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tantek (that's part of the thing of dConstruct)
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caseorga_ tantek: yep! i don't think aaron spoke last year, right?
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tantek no I don't think aaronpk has every spoken at dConstruct
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tantek so you'd have to lobby adactio for that ;)
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caseorga_ tantek: hehe, i think i might do that
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tantek yes!
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caseorga_ tantek: i might need a backup voucher once i make the initial vouch, so i might ask you about it in the future
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tantek of course!
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caseorga_ tantek: but yes, if i can get approval to do dConstruct, aaron and i will be happy to help with indiewebcamp uk, one of the best times of last year
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tantek great!
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tantek would be wonderful to co-organize that with you two and adactio of course.
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tantek !tell brianloveswords how is it going with getting Mozilla sponsorship for part of IndieWebCampSF? Can you help with Saturday? http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF#Sponsor
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk tantek: re screenshot: I took 4 screenshots and combined them in photoshop
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message on 3/2 at 4:46pm: thanks so much for uploading the FB mobile web event screenshots!
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tantek oh cool! I took 3 screenshots and cropped them using the iOS Photos app and then uploaded them and stitched them in the embedded markup.
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tantek your solution sounds better. I haven't used photoshop in years
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tantek feel free to photoshop my 3 screenshots too!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/event#Redesign_2014-02-27
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aaronpk ha ok
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aaronpk wish there was an automated way to do that
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tantek aaronpk - like a web-based stitcher?
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@kevinmarks RT @t: The very first IndieWebCampSF is this Friday & Saturday. Very limited space. RSVP and join us: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (ttk.me t4Us1) (twitter.com/_/status/440537725972656129)
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aaronpk yeah, like email 3 photos and the service figures out how to stitch them and emails them back
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tantek email?!? how about just upload? ;)
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aaronpk cause email is easier for that :)
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tantek and then it shows you the result
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jedahan wondering the chance of participating remotely...
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tantek aaronpk - disagree, email is rarely easier for anything :P
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tantek (especially if you don't set it up on your mobile device)
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aaronpk in this case I believe it is, only because of the integration with the photos app
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tantek interesting
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tantek aaronpk, caseorganic, do you know if Jessy or any other Embassy folks will be joining us at IndieWebCampSF? If you could reach out to your Embassy contact(s) and explicitly invite them to RSVP (or be your apprentices) that would be great.
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caseorganic tantek: jessyk will be out of town
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tantek Always good to involve the hyperlocal community.
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caseorganic tantek: that's my contact there, already asked her
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tantek caseorganic, then who is our contact for getting setup and getting the space etc.?
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caseorganic tantek: jessykate
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tantek that doesn't work - we need someone physically there to let us in etc. perhaps an hour before opening for setup etc.
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aaronpk we're staying there, we'll have the door code
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tantek ah, so YOU are the local resident contact, got it ;)
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caseorganic tantek: yep! aaron and i will be it
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aaronpk this looks useful: https://itunes.apple.com/tw/app/web-scroll-capture/id483112957
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tantek was confused for a moment.
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caseorganic aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 377 karma
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tantek aaronpk - I think the Embassy has a house calendar or something - is IWC on it so the other residents know about it? Can check it out?
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tantek do you know any of the residents that will be in town for it?
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aaronpk yep it's on the calendar
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aaronpk ah it's marked private right now. should I make it public?
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "update HWC next meetup" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - make it public if you can put in the explicit RSVP link
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aaronpk yep looks like I can
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/440528697217798144/440537725972656129 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (webmention)
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tantek and if you can reach out directly (IM, txt etc.) to other residents, that would be great too. I'll try to do the same.
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-6) "/* IndieWebCamp */ fix links" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - would be good to assess # of rooms for breakout sessions and availability of projector(s) / whiteboards also.
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tantek goes to capture this on the wiki
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF (-4) "# of people" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF (+48) "/* Schedule */ organizer setup" (view diff)
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tantek !tell brianlovewords are you coming to IndieWebCampSF? Be sure to add yourself to the Guest List explicitly! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek darnit
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tantek !tell brianloveswords are you coming to IndieWebCampSF? Be sure to add yourself to the Guest List explicitly! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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brianlovewords yo Loqi clear that mismessage.
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Loqi brianlovewords: tantek left you a message 50 seconds ago: are you coming to IndieWebCampSF? Be sure to add yourself to the Guest List explicitly! http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List
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tantek Thanks Loqi :P
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek feels bad about cluttering Loqi's queue.
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Loqi :)
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barnabywalters I love that switching identities is a tool for calming overenthusiastic robots
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+35) "/* Event */ Added plancast and lanyard URLS" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+466) "realized I hadn't RSVP'd myself yet" (view diff)
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caseorganic.com edited /2014/SF (-31) "/* RSVP */ Added Lanyrd and Plancast URLs" (view diff)
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@schnarfed RT @t: The very first IndieWebCampSF is this Friday & Saturday. Very limited space. RSVP and join us: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (ttk.me t4Us1) (twitter.com/_/status/440552749780848640)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/440528697217798144/440552749780848640 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (webmention)
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Jeena I'm now officially payed to write C++ code which is kind of odd because I never wrote real C++ code in my life.
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KevinMarks_ presumably you have to read a lot of C++ code first. Hope the codebase is in a good state.
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Jeena yeah it looks like that and they seem to have tests for everything as far as I could see in the repos
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Jeena My bigger problem during the first month will be money, I have two old customers who should have payed by now but didn't and I had to talk to my father so he would send me some money.
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@kevinmarks Looking forward to seeing (some of) you at #IndieWebCamp SF, 7th-8th March 2014 http://lanyrd.com/2014/indiewebcamp/ http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF (twitter.com/_/status/440560698972598272)
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snarfed Jeena: hopefully c++11!
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tantek aaronpk, caseorganic thanks for adding the lanyrd & plan cast urls!
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caseorganic tantek: welcome!
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tantek I'm going to try to recruit more people from Mozilla today.
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caseorganic tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 24 karma
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sparverius so i just let 4 domains lapse
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sparverius feels good man
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snarfed sparverius++
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Loqi sparverius has 2 karma
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caseorganic sparverius: lucky - i bought 6 or 7 of them the other week
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caseorganic snarfed: i'm still thinking about a day where everyone works on their various domains that haven't been developed
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snarfed caseorganic: …?
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aaronpk http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/01/29/1/domain-name-purgatory
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snarfed you mean, you wish more people would follow through on projects?
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snarfed ah, reading
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caseorganic snarfed: there are a lot of hackathons out there where you work with other people's technology on a new project, but there's not a day for working on your own domains
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caseorganic snarfed: yeah! people have lots of fun domains they own lying around with project ideas for each, but then don't have the time to develop them
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snarfed sure!
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snarfed i think "domain" as a first class entity is maybe a red herring, though
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snarfed lots of people have wishlist of projects and/or web sites they'd like to make
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snarfed which is great!
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caseorganic snarfed: yes!
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snarfed whether you also have domains sitting around for some of them, ok, but that probably doesn't make a project more or less worth doing
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aaronpk also see: sunk cost
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sparverius at this point id rather use subdomains
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snarfed regardless. probably agreeing violently
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aaronpk http://messymatters.com/sunk/
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snarfed sparverius: hell yes! i love doing most small projects on appspot.com, not as their own domains
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sparverius i have a very short domain which is nice for that
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sparverius plus it attaches it to me
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snarfed aaronpk: agreed. sunk cost fallacy, whee. gotta distrust your brain.
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sparverius although i havent done any real web stuff in a while
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aaronpk appspotdomains--
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Loqi appspotdomains has -1 karma
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aaronpk better to have a subdomain of one of your own IMO
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sparverius dude i have such a sunk cost fallacy going on. i collected old video games for like 5+ years
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aaronpk that's why I have pin13.net
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snarfed aaronpk: good point!
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snarfed subdomains ftw
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snarfed sparverius: eh, it's only the fallacy when it guilts you into doing things that you otherwise wouldn't care about as much
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sparverius it's guilting me into keeping two bookshelfs of video games
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sparverius although also some of them are really expensive so i've got that going for me too *fuck
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snarfed but it hasn't guilted you into playing them all!
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snarfed that's the key point for me at least
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snarfed sinking costs isn't inherently bad. you can't predict the future. following sunk costs with more time/money when you otherwise wouldn't, that's the bad part.
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sparverius no the cost in this case is the space they take up
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snarfed oh, hah. eh, there's an easy answer for that.
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sparverius yeah i know
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sparverius fucking sell them all and donate a few
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snarfed yup
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snarfed and of all of the problems in your life, i'd guess shelf space isn't the top of the list
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snarfed (that's just my guess though :P)
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tantek so many domains. so many projects. so little time. :/
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sparverius snarfed: actually it's pretty high up there
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sparverius i'm really good at finding problems and then dismissing them with predjudice
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snarfed sparverius: wow, ok. i'm jealous, your life must be pretty good otherwise!
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snarfed got it
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sparverius i mean you know, i have problems that i cant fix but i try not to count those because they're largely out of my control
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snarfed good idea
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tantek FYI: It's confirmed: http://2014.xoxofest.com/
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sparverius hell yess
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sparverius xoxo++
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Loqi xoxo has 1 karma
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: The very first IndieWebCampSF is this Friday & Saturday. Very limited space. RSVP and join us: http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (ttk.me t4Us1) (twitter.com/_/status/440572073476235264)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/440528697217798144/235193328 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/440528697217798144/440572073476235264 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (webmention)
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sparverius yo anyone want to be my creator? i'm going to sign up as an apprentice since i dont really run anything public
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sparverius actually i do have something that could probably qualify but it's not really "mine"
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snarfed sparverius: happy to!
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snarfed it sounds like you can probably be a creator yourself
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snarfed you don't have to have anything big that's already existing
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sparverius well i dont have anything public anymore
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snarfed aha
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aaronpk you can still log in to the wiki, yea?
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sparverius except for all my twitter<->irc stuff and i think most of that is protected
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sparverius yeah
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snarfed throw up a bare bones personal web site with an h card, then you can sign in via indieauth
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snarfed that's good enough to sign up as a creator
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sparverius ugh i need a photo too.
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sparverius actually i dont have the hcard microformat
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snarfed np, only takes a coupld seconds to add
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sparverius no i mean i have a microformat
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sparverius it's the rel one
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sparverius rel-me
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snarfed ah. all you need for indieauth is rel="me" links
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sparverius i guess i should put hcard up too
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snarfed sure!
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snarfed you can plan to flesh out more of that stuff when you're actually at IWC, too
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sparverius i have dozens of txt files ive written on my site, i should just fucking put a php header on all of them and call it a day
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snarfed lol
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sparverius ahhh shit guess im buying a laptop too
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snarfed do whatever's fastest right now, then iterate on it
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pius.me edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+391) "RSVPing" (view diff)
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snarfed damn, busy day
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tantek yay Pius!
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Loqi giggles
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pius.me edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+1) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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pius.me edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-389) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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tantek wat
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aaronpk I've finally found a hackernews clone I don't mind standing up for random stuff https://github.com/antirez/lamernews
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+200) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+3) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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sparverius wth
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-4) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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sparverius okay so show preview works
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+1) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-200) "reverting because somehow im fucking everything up" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/440528697217798144/109900810 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (webmention)
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (-4) "/* Creators */ fixing wiki markup" (view diff)
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4c4d.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+202) "now that the markup is fixed, adding myself should work without annihilating the layout" (view diff)
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sparverius any time i start doing anything with front end, clown music starts playing at about 20% slower than it was meant to
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Loqi [mention] http://upon2020.com/blog/2014/03/indiewebcamp-san-francisco-this-friday-and-saturday/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://upon2020.com/blog/2014/03/indiewebcamp-san-francisco-this-friday-and-saturday/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/SF/Guest_List (pingback)
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@Johannes_Ernst IndieWebCamp San Francisco this Friday and Saturday http://upon2020.com/blog/?p=1891 (twitter.com/_/status/440582320349667328)
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@ARCScon The web mention code from Herbert Van de Sompel's talk: http://webmention.org #sparc2014 (twitter.com/_/status/440596582782627840)
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@hjoseph RT @ARCScon: The web mention code from Herbert Van de Sompel's talk: http://webmention.org #sparc2014 (twitter.com/_/status/440596763557523458)
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@mfgaede RT @ARCScon: The web mention code from Herbert Van de Sompel's talk: http://webmention.org #sparc2014 (twitter.com/_/status/440596853344575488)
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aaronpk orly?
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@jillemery RT @ARCScon: The web mention code from Herbert Van de Sompel's talk: http://webmention.org #sparc2014 (twitter.com/_/status/440597100615585792)
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@jsicot RT @ARCScon: The web mention code from Herbert Van de Sompel's talk: http://webmention.org #sparc2014 (twitter.com/_/status/440598100357697536)
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@DominiqueVanpee RT @ARCScon: The web mention code from Herbert Van de Sompel's talk: http://webmention.org #sparc2014 (twitter.com/_/status/440600930279768064)
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tantek WTH is sparc2014?
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tantek likely not this: http://www.sparc2014.org/
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tantek maybe this? http://www.sparc.arl.org/events/OA14
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tantek keeps digging
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tantek http://www.sparc.arl.org/sparc-2014-oa-meeting-program
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tantek "2pm-3:30pm - Practical Implementation Session (Salon 2&3)
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tantek Accelerating Impact: Exceptional Real-World Applications of Open Access Research. Sponsored by PLOS. " - "Herbert Van de Sompel, Digital Library Research & Prototyping, Los Alamos National Library "
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+1) "/* Official Guest List */ updated counts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+0) "/* Creators */ sort" (view diff)
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iboxifoo.com edited /2014/SF/Guest_List (+304) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /projects (+277) "added my Wordpress setup" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /projects (+114) "Added my Shaarli use" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /projects (+126) "added my use of IndieBoxProject" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /projects (+56) "updated our ownCloud use" (view diff)
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j12t On Friday, is there any hope of parking in the neighborhood?
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tantek j12t - probably
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barnabywalters vastly improved my main reader columns UI: http://waterpigs.co.uk/intertubes/
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barnabywalters next steps: being able to subscribe to more than 4 feeds per column, making columns easier to reorder, add reply contexts to columns, speed loading up
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barnabywalters sad to hear that cloudmade are turning off free mapping services for tinkerers in favour of enterprise-only plans — they did good maps
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aaronpk turns out maps are hard
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barnabywalters at least Leaflet is provider-agnostic, so in theory changing providers is a matter of swapping a URL out
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aaronpk also in practice!
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barnabywalters any recommendations for tile providers?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: does esri do tiles?
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aaronpk open mapquest is a reasonable free one
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aaronpk esri does too, technically you need a free developer account to use the tiles
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aaronpk we actually have semi-official support for leaflet now too https://github.com/Esri/esri-leaflet
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barnabywalters does esri use OSM data or it’s own to generate the tiles?
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aaronpk its own data
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aaronpk wel, compliled from several different providers behind the scenes, but as far as you're concerned it's esri data
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barnabywalters okay, I think I’d rather go with something pulling directly from OSM
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aaronpk but yeah if you're using leaflet it's really easy to swap out the tiles. I definitely would do that.
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barnabywalters mapquest looks good, I’ll give them a go
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aaronpk open mapquest (not regular mapquest) is the easiest/free-est
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aaronpk http://open.mapquestapi.com/
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aaronpk here ar ethe tile URLs http://developer.mapquest.com/web/products/open/map