#indiewebcamp 2014-10-27

2014-10-27 UTC
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fiatjaf isn't all this idea that "the open web is HTML over HTTP" undermined by the Same Origin Policy?
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fiatjaf in other words: CORS should be encouraged by the indieweb
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finchd what is CORS?
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Loqi CORS is an acronym for "cross-origin resource sharing," a mechanism for allowing browsers to make JavaScript requests to fetch resources from other domains http://indiewebcamp.com/CORS
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finchd hmm... sounds like the XSS I use NoScript to prevent
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tantek posting here for follow-up: http://bcc.npdoty.name/Dealing-with-harassment-and-spam-on-the-Web
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tantek !tell npdoty 1) for automated spam, I'm pretty convinced /vouch squashes it. 2) for abuse and targeted spam (which is just a form of abuse), we have /block - which frankly is a solved problem - Flickr got it right, everyone else needs to just copy their model. 3) for ways to publish blocklists, see http://microformats.org/wiki/blocklist. 4) what will you implement on your own site? write it down on /User:Npdoty.name perhaps in a new sec
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek "Working On"
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tantek also, CORS++
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tantek CORS++
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Loqi CORS has 0 karma
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@ideajungalist RT @feesable: great post by @benwerd (cofounder of @withknown) on the #social #indieweb https://medium.com/indie-web/your-audience-isnt-your-social-network-ab25ccc1f33f (twitter.com/_/status/526575469856952321)
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snarfed quiet weekend
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snarfed (go giants!)
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tantek !tell fiatjaf,finchd CORS is a good thing. Based on CORS, we've written up some of this: https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomains
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks__ Hmm http://blogs.aws.amazon.com/security/post/Tx3LP54JOGBE0AY/Building-an-App-using-Amazon-Cognito-and-an-OpenID-Connect-Identity-Provider?sc_ichannel=em&sc_icountry=GLOBAL&sc_icampaigntype=launch&sc_icampaign=em_125664930&sc_idetail=em_7542727&ref_=pe_411040_125664930_8
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pfefferle good morning all
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /couchdb (+35) "redirect to CouchDB" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /couchDB (+21) "redirect to CouchDB" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /CouchDB (-7) "Redirected page to [[CouchDB]]" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /couchdb (-14) "Redirected page to [[CouchDB]]" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /CouchDB (+7) "Redirected page to [[Apache CouchDB]]" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /couchdb (+7) "Redirected page to [[Apache CouchDB]]" (view diff)
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fiatjaf don't judge me.
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Loqi fiatjaf: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 58 minutes ago: CORS is a good thing. Based on CORS, we've written up some of this: https://indiewebcamp.com/subdomains
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fiatjaf tantek: I was thinking I could do webmentions and discovery using mf2 tags from the client side (using javascript in one page to fetch data from other pages), but I totally forgot about the Same Origin Policy and now I think it is very bad for the indieweb. javascript running in the browser could be a powerful tool, not requiring people to have and maintain their own servers, but still let them do a lot of interesting things from client side.
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fiatjaf I don't know exactly how this fits, because the indieweb is about having a domain name, but a domain name does not imply a full-featured webserver.
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voxpelli fiatjaf: Firefox OS and web apps can perhaps be interesting in that regard as they allow you (like all apps do) to request any webpage without having to think about CORS: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13873025/firefox-os-packaged-apps-and-xmlhttprequests
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voxpelli I guess same is true with Chrome apps: https://developer.chrome.com/extensions/xhr
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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@loicmathaud Next step: add webmention requests when publishing a new post on my site (twitter.com/_/status/526729495873867777)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor nick
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kylewm tantek: when you say CORS is a good thing, do you mean the cross domain restriction is good or the disabling thereof?
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Loqi [mention] http://io.donbain.com/2014/tip-of-my-hat-to-known-and-withknowncom-and-founders linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://io.donbain.com/2014/tip-of-my-hat-to-known-and-withknowncom-and-founders linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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mko Anyone have good IndieWeb examples of data displayed not in a post/entry format? I'm looking for a way to post my genome publicly, but it sits at approximately 1 million SNPs, which seems kind of absurd to try to publish as h-as-gene posts. :-)
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mko Similarly, I've got around 300k energy usage data intervals that I want to publish, and I feel like even those might need to be displayed as something other than an entry (though they're easier to publish as an entry as they've got explicit time boundaries, unlike the gene data).
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gRegor` Publishing your genome, mko? Wow. (No ideas)
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aaronpk I'm still unclear on how block actually can work on the indieweb
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Loqi aaronpk: kbs left you a message on 10/25 at 11:32am: oh, woops and apologies - just realized hexagon/honeycomb was from a different aaron *blush* so, ignore all of it (some PGP fingerprint visualization discussion from long back.)
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Loqi aaronpk: GWG left you a message on 10/26 at 9:54am: Have an indieauth problem again
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aaronpk oh hai
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chrisroos Hi, folks. Apologies in advance if this is off-topic..
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chrisroos I've been working on a video service for the last few weeks. It's similar(ish) to Wistia, Vzaar and others with one main difference being that the videos are served from a domain you own.
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chrisroos We started out essentially building a self-hosted product on top of AWS but have since moved to hosting the videos in our AWS account and serving them on users' domains.
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chrisroos We're not really sure where we're going with it yet - it started out as a bit of a toy project - and it's possible we might release it all as open-source.
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chrisroos Anyway. Would anyone be interested in either chatting about what we're doing, or trying it out for us?
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Mark87 I don't know anything about Wistia/Vzaar. What does your service do?
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chrisroos Oh, and just in case that looks like a completely spammy sales pitch. That's really not the intention! The service we're imagining would be zero lock-in, handle some of the challenges described in http://indiewebcamp.com/video#Web_support and result in videos served on your own domain.
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chrisroos @Mark87 It allows you to upload videos, transcodes them to suitable web formats and then makes them available at a URL like videos.<yourdomain>.com
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aaronpk i'm potentially interested in the self-hosted open source version of that
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Mark87 by make them available, are you merely providing a transcoding service, or is it hosting as well to save us bandwidth?
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Mark87 of serving them to our visitors
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tantek chrisroos - let's start with - what's your own personal site, and are you using whatever video service you're talking about on your own site?
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tantek we tend to apply a pretty strong selfdogfood filter on things discussed here
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tantek see https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
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chrisroos @Mark87 They're hosted as well but we'd be looking to charge for the service - we can't afford to run it for free. The alternative is the possibility of the self-hosted version (in which case you'd pay the charges directly), although we've not discussed that in detail yet.
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ShaneHudson I tend to be more interested in tools than services personally. I've lost trust for services
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aaronpk but yes what tantek said. are you using this service on your own website?
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chrisroos @ShaneHudson Lost trust because they disappear?
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ShaneHudson chrisroos: Yes, or I stop being able to pay and loose the links etc.
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chrisroos @aaronpk @tantek____ No, I'm not. But, yes, I plan to. I have a (very) small number of videos on YouTube, Vimeo and directly on my site. I plan for this to replace those.
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chrisroos @ShaneHudson The fact that you'll own the domain, and therefore URLs, means that it should be easy for you to move your videos anywhere else at anytime
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chrisroos Ah, I just realised I don't need the @ in front of names. Apologies.
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ShaneHudson So it will be easy to export? That makes it more interesting, I don't have many videos personally though
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chrisroos ShaneHudson: That's the idea, yup.
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@Wim_DS . @Synology: Your data. Anytime, Anywhere. (#dutch) http://www.youtube.com/ #cloud #privacy #ownyourdata #private #NAS #server #security (twitter.com/_/status/526784390844907520)
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aaronpk I tend to be skeptical of things people aren't actively using themselves, whether it's a service or open source code
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aaronpk or phrased anotherway, I trust something more if the developer is using it themselves
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chrisroos aaronpk: I completely agree.
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ShaneHudson Yeah, make something that works for you and then see if others are interested :)
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ShaneHudson That way you have a reason to develop it even if it doesn't end up making much money etc
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upon2020.com edited /Indie_Box (+264) "Added recent articles" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /Indie_Box (-59) "Updated links" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /Indie_Box (+108) "Added UBOS" (view diff)
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chrisroos Thanks for the feedback, folks.
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tantek_ FYI we're live at the Social Web WG today: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2014-10-27#t1414431328875
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tantek_ if you're an invited expert, please feel free to join on IRC and lurk on talky
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tantek_ (if not, why haven't you applied? ;) )
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mko tantek_: how does one apply to be an invited expert? I thought you had to be invited? :-P
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ShaneHudson Hah yeah that confused me at first too
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mko Serious question though. How do you apply?
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ShaneHudson https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg
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ShaneHudson Check the Participation bit, it forwards you to http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/ieapp/ but you need to log in with a w3.org account
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mko ShaneHudson++
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mko Thanks
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Loqi ShaneHudson has 12 karma
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tantek_ mko - see: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#How_to_participate
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@benkeene My lean toolkit: Analytics @CrazyEgg @GoSquared @mixpanel @KISSmetrics @google @WebMention https://medium.com/@benkeene/my-lean-startup-toolkit-ec6a32ce19b1 https://twitter.com/benkeene/status/526798387501596672/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/526798387501596672)
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aaronpk huh, different "web mention"
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aaronpk https://web.mention.net/
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tantek_ boy am I glad we're *not* dealing with namespace nonsense
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ShaneHudson I think the domain part of the namespace is quite important. If it is in one place and not distributed then that one place must be trustworthy. Luckily indiewebcamp.com is :)
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barnabywalters ShaneHudson: that’s the case if the domain part is actually used (i.e. resolving namespaced terms actually produces content). Otherwise it’s just a string of characters :)
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Loqi barnabywalters: kylewm left you a message 1 week, 4 days ago: It doesn't look like I'm getting webmentions from you, any idea why?
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ShaneHudson Heh yeah the name of the namespace means nothing to me, just that urls resolve :)
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barnabywalters wow has it really been 11 days
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barnabywalters kylewm: interesting, not sure what’s happening there! I’ll see if there’s anything interesting in my logs
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mko lol barnabywalters. Welcome back. :-)
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barnabywalters mko: thanks :)
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ShaneHudson That's practically hibernation :p
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barnabywalters heh
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tantek.com edited /posts (+37) "/* Inferring post kinds from properties */ p-invitee -> invitation" (view diff)
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Mark87 tantek, interesting wiki edit on /posts about inferring type.
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Mark87 I've been pondering a similar thought for a few days now
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Mark87 I wonder why we even need post "types"
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ShaneHudson I find post types useful for UI. For example a photo post type doesn't always need a text box whereas my longform content has a UI that consists of [+photo, +text, +quote] etc
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aaronpk ShaneHudson: are you talking about creating a post or displaying a post?
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ShaneHudson Creating
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aaronpk I think so far tantek has been referring to displaying/marking up posts
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aaronpk also see facebook's UI for some interesting type-less post creation UI
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aaronpk probably worth documenting some of that
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benjaminterry.net created /User:Benjaminterry.net (+281) "/* Benjamin Terry */" (view diff)
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ShaneHudson True, Facebook's UI is a very cut down version of my longform in a way. You add the content types to the post as opposed to starting with the type
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Mark87 What does it matter what "type" we assign to a collection of properties, if the doesn't tell us anything more than the presence of the properties themselves
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Mark87 if the type**
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Mark87 If there's a p-name, we know the objects name, if there's e-content, we know its content, if there's u-url, we know its url, if there are other properties we don't know about, that's fine, we won't render them, but we can still show what we know about the object, namely its name, content, and url
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kylewm Mark87: it's not article vs. note, there are also events, invites, rsvps, photos, other media (videos, audio), checkins, bookmarks, etc. that might all be displayed differently
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kylewm if it's not useful to you to differentiate, then don't worry about it
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Mark87 kylewm well i'm wondering why its useful to anyone really.
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Mark87 For instance, Notes vs RSVPs, the only real difference is the presence of the p-rsvp property
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Mark87 it still might have a p-name
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Mark87 and e-content
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ShaneHudson A photo might not hav a p-name
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ShaneHudson *have
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Mark87 no but it will have a the photo property
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Mark87 which also might be in a note or article or rsvp or bookmark
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Mark87 I'm just thinking out loud
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kylewm Mark87: see how aaronpk displays received RSVPs differently http://aaronparecki.com/events/2014/08/27/1/homebrew-website-club#rsvps
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Mark87 kylewm that's very cool. Do you mean differently than a note?
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Mark87 or differently than what?
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kylewm yeah differently than a regular comment
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kylewm or like or repost
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (+38) "clear the TOC" (view diff)
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tantek adactio got micropub working right? on his site as a receiver? or his client?
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kylewm tantek: receiver, based on his using OwnYourGram
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aaronpk tantek: his site is now a micropub endpoint so can be used by many clients
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aaronpk he was testing with Quill, but I think he got photo posting via OwnYourGram working too
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aaronpk he said he was relieved to be able to use ownyourgram because he missed sharing photos with people on instagram after switching to posting from his site
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aaronpk (due to the limitation of instagram not having a post api of course)
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KartikPrabhu caught up on logs
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KartikPrabhu weird that https://web.mention.net/ does not say anywhere what it does?
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tantek aaronpk - could you add that about adactio to http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub#IndieWeb_Examples ?
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: you have to create an account to find out what the site is for anti-pattern
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KartikPrabhu yup
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KartikPrabhu my guess is it sends notifications for all the silo mentions
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KartikPrabhu but <shrug> don't care
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juansantiago Hi, ¿alguien habla español?
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KartikPrabhu juansantiago: hi! err I don't really speak spanish :P
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juansantiago ok 1 minit please i,m go auto taslate
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KartikPrabhu yes sure :) also welcome
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juansantiago ¿Indieauth is a free protocol?
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KartikPrabhu juansantiago: by "free" you mean "open" then yes :)
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juansantiago I am a conscientious objector to the entire platform or proprietary software
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juansantiago great :)
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juansantiago license?
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juansantiago sorry about my english
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KartikPrabhu juansantiago: see: http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth
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juansantiago ok thanks
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KartikPrabhu juansantiago: no need to apologise for language differences! :)
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@kazuhito IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the IndieWeb http://www.indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/526857554450989057)
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juansantiago Yes, I saw the website but I found nothing about the license
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kylewm juansantiago: the software that runs on Indieauth.com is under the Apache License
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kylewm the protocol itself is CC0 -- public domain
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KartikPrabhu yes ^^
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kylewm ref: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/blob/master/README.md
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aaronpk everything on the wiki is CC0
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juansantiago In a project like this is the expected free license, but I like to be sure :)
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tantek kylewm - ref: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamp:Copyrights
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tantek for http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth and anything else at indiewebcamp.com
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: can the CC0 license for indieauth the protocol be made explicit on the wiki page. for new comers
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aaronpk yeah it should probably be added there like the micropub page
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tantek aaronpk yes
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tantek also - please add adactio to http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub#IndieWeb_Examples while you're in there!
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juansantiago thanks for de info
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juansantiago the info :)
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KartikPrabhu juansantiago: do you have your own website already?
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juansantiago I've done a lot of websites, I am now working with https://diasporaforum.org/ and are exploring possibilities to authenticate
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aaronpk but do you have your own personal website? like what do you consider your "home" on the internet?
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juansantiago my own site is http://piesnegros.org/ and this is my home http://juanruetter.piesnegros.org/
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aaronpk great!
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kylewm juansantiago: you are considering adding Indieauth support to Discourse?
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cweiske aaronpk, any news on federated login in indieauth.com?
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juansantiago yes
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aaronpk cweiske: sadly no new progress
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cweiske ok :/
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juansantiago is a user propssal in a forum
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aaronpk the good news is I am done traveling for a while so might be able to actaully pull this off
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juansantiago https://diasporaforum.org/t/sign-up-using-indie-auth/51/1
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kylewm cweiske: aaronpk: isn't the ideal for individual sites to defer to authorization_endpoint, rather than always going through indieauth.com?
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aaronpk yes
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kylewm juansantiago++ that would be *awesome*
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Loqi juansantiago has 1 karma
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aaronpk right now indieauth.com doesn't look for your authorization_endpoint
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cweiske kylewm, aaronpk wants to keep indiewebcamp.com using indieauth.com
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aaronpk which is what cweiske is bugging me about
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aaronpk remember that indieauth.com can be used in two different ways
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cweiske to keep the mediawiki plugin simple
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aaronpk right. I don't want to have to write the auth code for every project I make, so in that case I want to use indieauth.com this way https://indieauth.com/developers
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cweiske g'night
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kylewm juansantiago: a good first step would be to sign in to indieauth using your own site. linking to a Twitter or Github page are common options. if you don't have those, or prefer not to publish links to them, it's possible to sign in with SMS, an email address using Mozilla Persona, or with a PGP key (https://indieauth.com/gpg)
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juansantiago Yes, just the idea is not to have any relationship with platforms like gogle or twitter :)
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davidpeach Hello people. just thought id drop in and say hi.
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kylewm hi davidpeach :)
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davidpeach hi. how are you this evening?
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tantek wonders where the vector diagram for vouch went
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aaronpk bret: if you email the omnigraffle file to me I can finish it up
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tantek is this the latest one? https://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-285-webmention-vouch-drawing.png
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aaronpk oh hey he linked to the graffle file on that page
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aaronpk yes I think that's the latest
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aaronpk it was almost done but there was still a probelm with it which is why you reverted the embed on the /vouch page
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tantek I thought he updated it since then
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tantek and I just hadn't gotten a chance to re-review
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aaronpk oh maybe!
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /coisas (+1245) "Created page with "[http://github.com/fiatjaf/coisas coisas] is a multipurpose CMS that runs in the browser and deploys the static HTML it generates to GitHub Pages. It forces you to organize your..."" (view diff)
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@jtauber @joeld …including @t talking about Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/526881449127837696)
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fiatjaf how can I upload images to the wiki?
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fiatjaf what is upload
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "upload" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=upload
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KartikPrabhu fiatjaf: the footer has file upload
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aaronpk oh I had no idea lol. I usually just type in a file URL like indiewebcamp.com/File:whatever.jpg
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fiatjaf.alhur.es uploaded /File:aXYEzFn.png "Screenshot of [[coisas]] UI."
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (+156) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add adactio" (view diff)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /coisas (+56) "added screenshot." (view diff)
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@bmann @floriidaaa we need to organize an #indieweb day / night - @flipzagging likes this stuff too. Plus @sintaxi @rob_ellis etc. Etc. (twitter.com/_/status/526884701043048448)
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