#indiewebcamp 2015-02-23

2015-02-23 UTC
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@davidmead Does Ello have an API @jkn? Would love to syndicate there from my @withknown blog. /cc @cacheflowe #indieweb http://blog.davidjohnmead.com/2015/does-ello-have-an-api-jkn-would-love-to-syndicate (twitter.com/_/status/569654755158437889)
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acegiak morning, all
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GWG Morning, acegiak.
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GWG I have a little side project
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acegiak yeah?
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks/pull/18
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GWG I cleaned up my previous pull request.
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GWG Hoping to get this in.
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GWG To auto-accept brid.gy and such
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acegiak neat
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acegiak I like it
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acegiak the other thing I'd like to see is auto-accepting from people on my blogroll
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acegiak actually, what I should do is make it populate your domain whitelist with people from my blogroll and the people in their xfn network
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GWG You want linkbacks only or comments too
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GWG ?
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GWG I added a pre_linkback_approved to just target linkbacks
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acegiak ah ok
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acegiak I'll look at it later
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acegiak at the moment I don't mind maually approving comments
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GWG But you should be able to hook onto it, or add into the options field.
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acegiak yeah
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GWG Assuming pfefferle approves it.
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GWG The original version was messy
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GWG I rewrote it. I
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acegiak wait, it's semantic-linkbacks
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GWG Yes
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GWG You co-authored it, I believe
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acegiak oh I see. pfefferle's fork
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acegiak I just don't understand github fully
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GWG His is 3 commits ahead of yours
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GWG And 2 commits behind yours
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GWG I'm working on getting better at git, along with everything else.
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GWG That and not driving people crazy with odd whitespace in my code.
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acegiak oh. hmmm
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acegiak that merge will be fun
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GWG acegiak: For some reason, both snarfed and pfefferle have a philosophy about adding settings to their work.
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GWG So, I hid this one
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GWG It appears on the discussion page.
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acegiak they think you shkuldnt need settings?
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acegiak i mean you could avoid needing settings in this situation by using a links category as your whitelist
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GWG acegiak: It's a simplicity thing.
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GWG I understand the rationale.
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GWG I try to minimize them as much as possible.
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GWG So, for example, I swapped a setting in Post Kinds for a declaration of theme support.
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GWG It's the "Just Works" philosophy.
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acegiak yeah
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acegiak afk a bit
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GWG Considering how long the list of Settings sub-pages can be if you have a lot of plugins, I get it
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aaronpk only a few hours in to caseorganic.com running wordpress and already getting tons of pingback spam
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GWG aaronpk: May I recommend a plugin?
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aaronpk other than akismet?
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GWG Akismet is spam filtering.
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aaronpk does that not filter pingbacks?
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aaronpk oh wait these may have been regular comment spam
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GWG Simple Trackback Validation
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GWG It does something Akismet doesn't do.
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GWG It checks the IP address of the linkback against the IP address of the web server it supposedly came from.
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GWG I find that flags a lot of garbage
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acegiak gwg: your whitelist should be a separate plugin
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acegiak semantic linkbacks should have hooks allowing other plugins to autoapprove or autotrash
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GWG I thought about that, but I'd still like the hook.
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GWG The comment approved hook is at a very different place in the chain of events.
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acegiak yeah no a hook has to be added
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GWG Removing the domain function would be easy, leaving the rest
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GWG Hooks are good, either way. I need more hooks.
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acegiak yeah
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aaronpk kylewm: it appears Woodwind is not de-duping posts in a stream by looking at redirects?
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kylewm aaronpk: if an entry is in two feeds, it'll appear twice, is that what you mean?
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aaronpk no, all of caseorganic.com posts have new URLs
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aaronpk but the old URLs are sending redirects to the new ones
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aaronpk it found all the new URLs, but the old ones are still appearing in the stream as their own posts
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kylewm no, it doesn't look at permalink pages at all, just the h-feed
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aaronpk ah k
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aaronpk it's an interesting problem
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aaronpk it's going to happen to me as well when I change URL schemes
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GWG aaronpk: What are you changing to?
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/86
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kylewm not totally unrelated, it's difficult to tell if a post has been deleted, or if it's just fallen off the bottom of an h-feed
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aaronpk yeah deleted posts is tricky
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aaronpk making an HTTP request to a deleted page should return HTTP 410
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aaronpk but polling URLs to find if they're deleted seems unsustainable
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kylewm yeah, might be reasonable to check the 10 latest posts per feed, once a day, or something
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aaronpk I'd consider checking posts that were recently viewed
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kylewm it's especially nefarious with PuSH because you don't even have a couple minute window
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aaronpk I wonder if an extension to PuSH could solve this...
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aaronpk here's an idea maybe
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aaronpk if you subscribe to the topic "http://aaronparecki.com", you'll get pings when my home page feed changes
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aaronpk if I delete a post (whether or not it's on the home page), I could also send a ping to the hub with the same topic
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aaronpk but also include a specific URL that changed
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aaronpk you'd then go fetch that URL and see the 410
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aaronpk it would also work for updates that way
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aaronpk wow tue superfeedr docs are dense
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aaronpk no wonder nobody understands how this stuff works. it seems really complicated.
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aaronpk i thought I remembered seeing a really simple explanation of PuSH somewhere
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GWG aaronpk: Who is maintaining the spec for PuSH?
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GWG And is that person(s) active anywhere?
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aaronpk julien51, as well as brad fitzpatrick and brett slatkin (both were at IWC PDX 2013)
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aaronpk it's not necessarily the spec that needs updating, the spec actually is quite generic
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aaronpk anyway what I was looking for is the payload that the hub sends to subscribers when the feed updates
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aaronpk IIRC it includes pretty much only the "hub.topic" URL
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aaronpk I was thinking it could optionally include "hub.url" pointing to a single URL that changed, which may not be listed on the topic URL anymore (assuming the topic URL is a feed showing the latest N things)
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kylewm the content of the ping is actually unspecified. it can be anything
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aaronpk yeah that's what I gathered from the spec
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aaronpk which seems odd
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aaronpk also I couldn't find docs on superfeedr for what the ping contains
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kylewm https://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.4.html#publishing
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aaronpk that's between publisher and hub. i'm talking about between hub and subscriber.
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aaronpk which is https://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.4.html#contentdistribution
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aaronpk I didn't realize PuSH 0.4 could have any arbitrary body and just required two Link headers
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aaronpk now I'm tempted to write up a profile of PuSH 0.4 (would totally count as being PuSH 0.4) but specifying this stuff a little more concretely
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aaronpk I feel like this has the same problem as OAuth 2.0
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/01/15/1/so-you-implemented-an-oauth2-api
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GWG aaronpk: I'd enjoy reading it
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ben_thatmustbeme Votes on user stories in socialwg brought up an interesting idea. I had thought of adding polling before but I think polling, q &a , and events may all be I generalized to a single type
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ben_thatmustbeme Events are just polls where the answers are "attending" our not. But if you generalize it to a post that can list a set of expected optional responses
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ben_thatmustbeme And also maybe an optional "accepts new values" option
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ben_thatmustbeme So you list "attending" & "not attending" as the possible responses. But you allow people to respond with new values "unlikely" "will try" etc
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aaronpk i had a draft post i was working on a while ago about that
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aaronpk i don't think i ever published it
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aaronpk but the ideas ended up resulting in micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme And every new option gets added to the list
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aaronpk it turns out we already have a pretty good way of representing Q/A, polls, etc on the web... HTML forms!
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aaronpk so you can just make an HTML form for your poll, listing out the options you want or whatever, and people can submit the form! except instead of submitting it to you, it can first post to their site
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@Setvp @plaaid @t Cofounder: #indieweb #barcamp @IndieWebCamp @microformats. Working @Mozilla: @CSSWG @W3CAB. Making: @Falcon @CASSISjs. #fightfor (twitter.com/_/status/569716120695021569)
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ben_thatmustbeme A form anyone can post to. You want to see where the responses are from
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@iamaegibson trying to test quill and i get this "Your endpoint did not return a Location header." what am I doing wrong #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/569716519493509120)
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@aaronpk @iamaegibson Did you read the section on how you're supposed to respond to a Micropub request? https://quill.p3k.io/creating-a-micropub-endpoint#the-response #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/569716928656252929)
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channy.creation.net created /WordPress-ko (+8379) "/* initial update */" (view diff)
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@andkjaer Social Media Jobs: Move, Brigade Marketing, Snapchat >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=615671&utm_content=buffer6e176&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Nadine Cheung. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/569798171360149504)
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GWG Morning
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petermolnar morning
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Loqi petermolnar: kylewm left you a message on 2/18 at 11:26am: i sympathize about the extra space copied from api key/secret. i've done that more times than is reasonable.
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petermolnar GWG I've seen the weekly updates about the wiki, including the many many types of indieweb taxonomy in WordPress Data, and I have to say, I might not get some of them; I mean, for example, why fav and like and bookmark? is that not redundant?
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GWG petermolnar: To each their own.
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GWG People use them. Up to the user to decide what works for their site.
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petermolnar I think it's then just some mindset difference, that I would like to shift my things to a more simple setup, and now I'd have to deal with tags, categories, post types and indieweb taxonomy and it kind of getting a bit too much for me; I'm doing more work on the markup and the meta than on actual content and that is definitely not a good sign
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GWG petermolnar: I have a feature to choose which ones are enabled
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petermolnar oh, this is not about the plugin :)
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petermolnar it's just whining the massive complexity wordpress & the metadata is headed for
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petermolnar s/whining/whining about
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: it's just whining about the massive complexity wordpress & the metadata is headed for
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notizblog.org edited /User:Notizblog.org (-97) "/* working on/selfdogfooding */" (view diff)
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GWG petermolnar: I agree to a point. I don't use categories much. But disabling them is difficult
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petermolnar that do makes sense then; indieweb taxonomy + tags would indeed make a better structure then post formats + categories
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petermolnar did you think of some migrator/mirror plugin? for example, to automatically ( to old posts as well ) add 'photo' to image type posts
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GWG Not specifically. I did it myself for most.
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@rhiaro "Surveillance is bad." "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!" Still figuring out how to deal with this. Anyone link to good discussions? Cc #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/569880976144404481)
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders if we should have a page for all the "vendor" extensions for micropub being used. would be nice to know what to add support for. I want to ensure interoperability of my clients
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ben_thatmustbeme I know aaronpk has begun using things like p3k-consume p3k-type, etc. wonder what he uses for weight
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gRegor` Morning, indieweb
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loqi.me created /this_bullshit (+52) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /this_bullshit (-30) "r" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /Docker (+498) "/* Issues */ added some issues noted after reading about and experimenting with Docker" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Woodwind (+89) "add websockets-based live updates" (view diff)
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snarfed KevinMarks: re writing a journalist-friendly article about how the FB API changes have hurt us...not sure if it'd be worthwhile, but maybe!
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snarfed KevinMarks: the tl;dr is, if a user authed an app w/the 1.0 API, the app could read (and like, comment on) anyone else's posts that the user could see. the 2.0 API only lets the app read/write the user's own posts, for the most part.
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snarfed i actually think it's a good policy change. e.g. if i post something on FB for just my friends, i definitely don't necessarily intend that arbitrary apps can see it too
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snarfed but the fallout is definitely still sad
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GWG Afternoon.
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gRegor` o/ GWG
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GWG I've decided to try to accomplish something today.
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gRegor` How goes the WordPress indieweb?
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aaronpk gRegor`: caseorganic.com is on wordpress now!
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gRegor` Ooh! Lemme look
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aaronpk my microformats2 import plugin is complete!
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gRegor` "It's alive!"
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gRegor` Looks great!
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gRegor` What theme did you use?
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aaronpk i didn't do anything with hte themes
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aaronpk i just imported the data
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aaronpk it's all caseorganic now!
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gRegor` Cool
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GWG aaronpk: How did caseorganic decide on p3k initially?
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gRegor` Do the WordPress webmention plugins rely on the XMLRPC endpoint?
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GWG gRegor`: No.
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gRegor` And if so, do they require pingback?
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gRegor` I recommend this plugin to disable pingback: https://wordpress.org/plugins/disable-xml-rpc-pingback/
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aaronpk why do you need a plugin to disable pingback? there's a checkbox in settings for it
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GWG The pingbacks setting does need to be enabled, but not the XMLRPC component
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aaronpk ah
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aaronpk GWG: is that documented on the wiki somewhere?
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aaronpk sounds like a good addition to the wordpress getting started page
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gRegor` scratches head. I don't follow that GWG
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GWG aaronpk: Which?
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aaronpk "The pingbacks setting does need to be enabled, but not the XMLRPC component"
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gRegor` aaronpk: Hm, not familiar with that checkbox. I think this just moves it up one level, instead of doing a DB check to see if pingbacks are allowed, it just responds to pingback saying the server doesn't support it.
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GWG gRegor`: Exactly, the setting would turn off all types of Linkbacks. Telling the XMLRPC component to not accept pings is a different level
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gRegor` No, the plugin disabled pingback.ping XMLRPC method
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gRegor` s/disabled/disables/
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Loqi gRegor` meant to say: No, the plugin disables pingback.ping XMLRPC method
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gRegor` and pingback.extensions.getPingbacks, and removes the X-Pingback header
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tantek we need venues for HWC this week!
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tantek working on SF
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tantek aaronpk, dietrich PDX HWC?
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jonnybarnes hey tantek
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GWG I will volunteer my house as a NYC venue, and myself as the sole attendee.
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aaronpk time flies!
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tantek GWG - do it!!
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aaronpk yeah I can do HWC at esripdx this week
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GWG tantek: I just did.
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tantek GWG, I didn't see the wiki edit ;)
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jonnybarnes so I had a look at wikipedia, and rel=canonical link for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/{page} is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/{page}
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tantek oh dear
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tantek that's no good
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jonnybarnes so should we leave the IWC pages as they are?
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tantek jonnybarnes: we should prefer https
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jonnybarnes or link to https://en.... anway?
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tantek since wikipedia always redirects to it
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GWG tantek: That will have to wait
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tantek right - per their own redirect policy
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dietrich tantek, aaronpk: i'm in out of town this week
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tantek jonnybarnes: i.e. their *action* (redirect) overrides their *words* (rel=canonical markup claim)
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jonnybarnes I have no idea where to raise an issue with wikipedia about that, are they on github?
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aaronpk dietrich: "i'm in out of town"?
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GWG Anyone have an example of a venue page handy?
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GWG Never done venue
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tantek what is a venue?
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Loqi A venue is a named location or address/geo that is typically used for checkins https://indiewebcamp.com/venue
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dietrich aaronpk: i... have problems staying in this dimension?
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tantek SF location @MozSF
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club (-5) "SF location confirmed @MozSF, RSVP" (view diff)
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GWG Have to decide how to venue in Wordpress
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tantek GWG, what's the use case you're trying to solve?
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GWG Check in and rsvp
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tantek RSVP doesn't need venue
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GWG Tantek, if I am hosting an HWC by myself, don't I need a venue?
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tantek GWG, for the HWC use-case you can start with using just the wiki
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tantek like Chicago does (did?)
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tantek don't put so many steps in front of yourself for the first time you do something
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GWG I'm not building something today. Just thinking
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tantek keep it minimal and simple and get it done ASAP. then learn and iterate.
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tantek doing, reflecting, iteration is a faster way of solving the problem than thinking a lot about it
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GWG I rsvped to a previous HWC
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tantek sure for that you don't need a venue on your site
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GWG Manually. Want to iterate to less manually.
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tantek GWG, keep doing it manually until it hurts
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GWG My exercise is usually how do I build it in my system?
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tantek hey aaronpk - can you update http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club#Where ASAP for Portland?
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tantek folks are going to be looking it soon from MozPDX
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tantek SF, Chicago folks - RSVP for this week's HWC! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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aaronpk whoever keeps setting up the future HWC pages is copying from a really old version... because i always have to keep removing the "cancelled tonight" message from pdx
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club (-32) "hosting at esripdx" (view diff)
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tantek checks history ;)
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tantek thanks gRegor` for setting up the future HWC pages :)
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gRegor` np
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gRegor` I linked the homepage blurb to /next-hwc so in the future we just need to update the dates in the text and maybe the locations.
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gRegor` (and /next-hwc of course)
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tantek that helps!
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ Chi" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ KartikPrabhu was there even if he's too lazy to rsvp ;)" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-01-28-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek alright, now that we have venues confirmed for HWC, let's get some indie events posted!
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loqi.me created /withings (+121) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah that. sorry :P
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KartikPrabhu lazy/busy
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aaronpk it's still too hard for me to post events
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aaronpk is hoping someone with magic design/js skills will make a good event posting UI for micropub
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tantek !tell benwerd, kylewm could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for this week's HWC meetup in SF? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club#URLs Thanks!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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loqi.me created /weight (+116) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - an alternative is a "plain text" UI for entering events
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aaronpk that's why i have right now
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aaronpk what
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tantek like a picoformat / microsyntax
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tantek per markdown methodology (not markdown syntax)
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aaronpk ah
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tantek e.g. (off the top of my head)
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tantek This Wednesday, 17:30-19:30 Homebrew Website Club Meetup @ESRIPDX
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+59) "No Chicago meetup this week" (view diff)
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aaronpk i think as long as you use typical language a parser could do a reasonable job with that
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gRegor` What is picoformat?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "picoformat" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=picoformat&summary=prompted+by+gRegor%60+https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcamp.com%2Firc%2F2015-02-23%2Fline%2F1424719154607
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tantek but that's something I might type - the key is to figure out what *YOU* would naturally type as a brief english description of an event
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tantek picoformat is /microsyntax
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loqi.me created /picoformat (+24) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-23/line/1424719154607 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: I know you've been busy. Only teasing. :)
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KartikPrabhu i know :D
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KartikPrabhu I won't rsvp for this weeks too ;)
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blog.andrewshell.org edited /River4 (+105) "Adding another river4 example" (view diff)
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tantek hey are reviews anywhere in the user stories? e.g. http://www.yelp.com/biz/hipstermaid-mountain-view-2
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tantek one thing I realized while reading that, it's got use-cases both for indieweb publishing (individual reviews, comments, likes)
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tantek as well as indie readers / aggregators
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tantek e.g. would love to see a time series charting of the ratings #s for any given business
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tantek such timeseries would also put overall average review more in context
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blog.andrewshell.org edited /User:Blog.Andrewshell.Org (-245) "Moved to correct location" (view diff)
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@nhoizey @pivwan webmentions FTW! (twitter.com/_/status/570005770013679616)
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