#indiewebcamp 2015-11-25

2015-11-25 UTC
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kylewm it doesn't supporting editing or deleting yet, but I would be thrilled to add it
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kylewm and also I would like to know how far we are with editing/deleting too
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tantek kylewm - editing / deleting via silopub would make for a great demo next HWC 12/2!
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kylewm do any clients support editing/deleting?
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tantek is it possible to construct a test HTML form to try editing/deleting?
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kylewm that's true, also curl
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kylewm that is not very exciting to me right now though :)
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tantek kylewm: true - not exciting to demo, but useful for testing
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tantek I wonder how snarfed tested his editing/delete support on his micropub WordPress plugin
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snarfed curl
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aaronpk I was testing mine with curl too
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tantek editing UI is hard ;)
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aaronpk I need an example of an editor that people like, and then I can copy the UX of it to make a reference micropub editor
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bengo Postman is a good/easy cURL GUi
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aaronpk that's not what I mean ;)
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tantek aaronpk, IIRC snarfed is a fan of the WordPress iOS client
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snarfed (android :P but yes)
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aaronpk okay I'll take a look at the wordpress app
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aaronpk there must be a simpler one too though
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tantek er, sorry, I should just say, WordPress native mobile client :P
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tantek aaronpk, the next I'd look at (if I hadn't uninstalled it) would be a Tumblr native mobile client
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tantek IG does have some editing capabilities
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tantek hidden in the (...) button on the far right side of the like, comment, forward buttons is an "Edit" choice
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tantek which turns the "caption" (i.e. your own first comment) into an editable field, and then shows "edit" buttons for location and people
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tantek that's a combination reader/editor though
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kylewm might be a good indie-config action, like, reply, repost, edit
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tantek indeed
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tantek both IG and Twitter have "Delete" as an option in their (...) on their permalinks
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aaronpk I suspect "delete" may be a better starting point
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aaronpk given that twitter doesn't even let you edit posts
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tantek easier
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kylewm it looks like the micropub wordpress plugin supports an earlier iteration of the editing spec?
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kylewm edit-of=url without all the update vs. add vs. remove stuff
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snarfed yeah iirc there's an issue for that
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snarfed micropub evolved pretty fast
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kylewm tbh, the mp-action=edit looks overcomplicated to me
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kylewm i hadn't really dug into it before
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tantek kylewm: from what I recall, each step in the evolution had pretty strong considered reasons, but aaronpk may be able to better recall
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kylewm I don't doubt that it did
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kylewm I guess my question is why mp-action=edit&add[properties][category]=indieweb instead of mp-action=add&category=indieweb
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kylewm (my question for aaronpk and ben_thatmustbeme)
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aaronpk it gets tricky when you want to remove things
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aaronpk looking at this again, I could see making it a little simpler, mp-action=edit&add[category]=indieweb
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aaronpk basically dropping the [properties] bit since all that gives us is closer parity with what a microformats2 edit post looks like
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tantek simplification++
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Loqi simplification has 1 karma
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tantek now's a good time to do this, with fewer implementations, and more intentions to implement soon
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kylewm how about mp-action=listremove&category=indieweb
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kylewm I'm curious what gets tricky
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aaronpk removing a value from a list vs removing a whole property
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aaronpk similarly, replacing a value vs adding a value to a list
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aaronpk there are a handful of cases that need to be considered, maybe I should write those all down outside the context of this syntax
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tantek yes!
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tantek writingdownusecases++
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Loqi writingdownusecases has 1 karma
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kylewm not sure I'm advocating this, but removing a property is similar to editing a property to nil
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tantek oh dear no
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk yes it's similar, but there are no consistent serializations of that
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kylewm what's wrong with that tantek? mp-edit&category=
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aaronpk blank value does not necessarily imply nil
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tantek right
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tantek what if its multivalued and you only want to drop one of them?
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kylewm then you would use a different action instead of edit
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kylewm I'm just saying the action+subaction thing seems more confusing on the whole
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aaronpk give me a sec to write this down
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kylewm but +1 to use cases instead of bikeshedding syntax which I am doing right now :)
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aaronpk i'm not disagreeing with you necessarily
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aaronpk and frankly if there is a non-nested way to do this that makes sense i'm all for that
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tantek kylewm while you wait for aaronpk to capture the usecases, mind reviewing the issue noted in #microformats?
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kylewm is not sure he has the mental bandwidth
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kylewm will try
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GWG Still talking Micropub?
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bret oh man, feeling super out of touch with the state of micropub
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bret anyone have a tldr? or a wiki page thats up to date?
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bret jsmp?
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bret wish i could make it to iwc sf
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aaronparecki.com created /edit-examples (+899) "Created page with "== Create an Object == * Some properties have a single value, some have multiple values, e.g. ** name: Hello World ** category: foo, bar == Add a Value == * Adding a new propert..."" (view diff)
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aaronpk okay there are 6 kinds of operations https://indiewebcamp.com/edit-examples
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tantek wow
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aaronparecki.com edited /edit-examples (+516) (view diff)
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aaronpk added requirements for each
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kylewm so this assumes every property of a Post is a string or a list of strings
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GWG bret: I contributed to a Micropub client and I'm still confused.
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aaronpk yes, because microformats does it that way
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kylewm just making sure
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tantek strings++
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Loqi strings has 0 karma
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tantek wat
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kylewm hehe
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aaronpk a string can also be a URL of course
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tantek of course, best way to store a URL is as a string
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kylewm i guess that's true, you can't have a list-of-lists-of-strings in microformats
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tantek kylewm we're still unsure how best to represent geotags
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GWG How can an endpoint tell you what properties it understands?
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tantek 2d arrays of coordinates
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tantek GWG, step away from the WS-deathstar problem
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tantek what is WS-deathstar?
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Loqi For reference: WS-Deathstar [1][2][3][4][5], e.g.: https://indiewebcamp.com/WS_Deathstar
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kylewm haha
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kylewm it's like asking how to solve a problem where someone else knows it reduces to traveling salesman
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GWG tantek: I'm simply looking for the exhaust port.
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tantek in scrolling to the top of that page I realize we are lacking an entry on the "field of pipe dreams" anti-pattern
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aaronpk okay i have to run. if someone wants to take a stab at making up names for all the things on that page that would be an interesting exercise
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aaronpk also good homework is to look at the wordpress api and document which of the 6 operations they support and what they call things
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aaronpk any volunteers?
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GWG aaronpk: It isn't going into WordPress core till 4.5. The infrastructure is going into 4.4, and I was considering having a look at that.
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kylewm GWG: is it roughly the same API as wordpress.com? https://developer.wordpress.com/docs/api/
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kylewm looks like that API just has what `replace' which it calls `edit'
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kylewm s/has what/has what you called
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: looks like that API just has what you called `replace' which it calls `edit'
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kylewm on consideration, yall were right about null != []
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GWG kylewm: I'm not sure. I've been meaning to look into it more. But I'm not as concerned about .com. I care about .org
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kylewm GWG: it would be interesting to look at the proposed JSON API, could you help me find it?
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GWG Yes. I'll find the link.
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GWG http://v2.wp-api.org/
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tantek.com edited /antipatterns (+599) "capture field-of-pipe-dreams-antipattern in the inbox" (view diff)
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GWG It is still being finalized. But the plumbing is due in 4.4 in December. The actual API will go into 4.5 as of now, due in 2016.
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GWG I wanted to look to see if the infrastructure going into 4.4 might be a better way to implement the Micropub and Webmention endpoints.
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kylewm thanks GWG
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kylewm (it was hard to tell what was official and what were third party efforts)
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kylewm definitely not the same as the wordpress.com api
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kylewm supports Create (POST /wp/v2/posts) Update (POST /wp/v2/posts/<id>) and Delete (DELETE /wp/v2/posts/<id>)
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GWG It is newer. They've been working on it for a long time now.
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kylewm interesting that they used POST instead of PUT for edit, but DELETE for delete
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tantek that is an odd bit of partial REST verbism
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aaronpk Huh interesting: filter[s]=awesome
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aaronpk That page is terrible on mobile
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aaronpk GWG: is post meta how Wordpress does tags?
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GWG No, taxonomy
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aaronpk hmm the new api doesn't have methods for taxonomy
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aaronpk I see how they're avoiding the issues I am trying to solve though
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aaronpk they treat all properties of a post as single value
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aaronpk when there are multiple values, they are treated as a separate resource to manage
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aaronpk GWG: when you create a post with the API do you have to add tags after the post is created?
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GWG I've never used it
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GWG I thought it was still evolving.
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aaronpk From what I can tell there are like 3 APIs
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GWG Wordpress.com, Wordpress.org and?
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aaronpk XMLRPC
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aaronpk metaweblog
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GWG Oh, that thing
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aaronpk json api
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aaronpk new thing
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GWG That's the .org I referred to.
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tantek aaronpk: the first thing in /Micropub-brainstorming sounds more like an FAQ - https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Why_aren.27t_Micropub_requests_sent_as_JSON
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tantek Is there a micropub FAQ?
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aaronpk Hmm! There isn't!
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aaronpk new page?
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aaronpk i think that section started out as a suggestion to use JSON as the payload format
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aaronpk So xmlrpc supports adding tags to the post when it's created
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GWG Yes
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aaronpk It's hard to tell on the others
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aaronpk apparently wp-api has already been deprecated in favor of v2
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aaronpk i don't feel so bad about Micropub going through these revisions now ;-)
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GWG aaronpk: Bingo
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tantek aaronpk indeed!
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tantek btw I think what you meant by "xmlrpc supports" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaWeblog
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aaronpk Oh I meant the Wordpress xmlrpc api
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aaronpk so I kind of want to go through that list I just made and make a version that doesn't use nested form encoded names at all
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aaronpk just to see what that looks like
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tantek hmm seems like we should document some of this
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tantek let's see if I can find a thread to tug on
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tantek what is pingback?
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Loqi pingback is a protocol for web sites to notify other web sites when they've posted a link to them (respectively) https://indiewebcamp.com/pingback
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tantek not specific enough
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aaronpk i think you'd only be able to edit one property per http request in that case tho
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aaronparecki.com edited /edit-examples (+214) (view diff)
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aaronpk I'm on a phone right now. Anyone want to continue doing what I am doing there?
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tantek If I had more of an idea where it's going
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kylewm aaronpk, what does the A: signify?
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aaronparecki.com edited /edit-examples (+219) (view diff)
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aaronpk there are some more
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tantek.com edited /pingback (+25) "legacy XML-RPC" (view diff)
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aaronpk im planning on doing alternate versions called B and C
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aaronpk etc
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aaronpk didnt want to think about what to call it right now
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kylewm I'll take a cut
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aaronpk kylewm: is that what you were implying earlier about making a flatter version?
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kylewm.com edited /edit-examples (+141) "A's for delete a property and delete an object" (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: yes exactly
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aaronpk It's limited to manipulating one value per request right?
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kylewm well that's true
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kylewm and for "Replace a Value", that's not acceptable
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kylewm for Add a Value, Delete a Value, and Delete a Property, I think it's ok to limit it to one at a time
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aaronpk Interesting
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aaronpk Flickr treats adding and removing tags as individual operations
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aaronpk wordpress has a "save" button you have to press after changing the tags
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aaronpk so Wordpress does multiple tag edits in one request
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kylewm You can add multiple tags to one photo with one call to the flickr API
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kylewm 'tags': ','.join(tags),
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aaronpk oh yeah
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tantek kylewm tags I think are more complicated than that in Flickr - though maybe not in API?
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aaronpk the UI doesn't support that anymore tho right?
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tantek Flickr tags are space separated by default, unles you have a tag with spaces in it, in which case comma separated
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kylewm tantek: talking about machine tags?
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tantek all tags
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aaronpk tags are pretty simple in flickr IIRC, like there's no IDs for them, they aren't treated as their own resource, etc
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tantek.com created /Micropub-FAQ (+1650) "stub with JSON FAQ" (view diff)
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kylewm I'm just quoting every tag when sending to the api
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aaronpk wordpress has the concept of tags having their own IDs, and heck tags are just one of the possible taxonomies you can use to add things to posts
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kylewm so it's like "indieweb","homebrew website club"
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tantek quoted is fine
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tantek yes that works
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tantek and would (should) also work without commas
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tantek.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming () "(-1431) move an FAQ to separate page" (view diff)
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aaronpk flickr tags can have spaces?? How did I not know this
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tantek aaronpk - since you asked for help - started Micropub FAQ
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GWG Categories and tags are taxonomies in WordPress, and there are custom taxonomies available.
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aaronpk awsome thanks
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tantek aaronpk: Flickr tags can be space delimited
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aaronpk ive occasionally found myself wanting to use tags with spaces on my own site
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tantek.com edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+171) "Past or other blog publishing APIs" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - yes it's the past of tagging
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tantek hashtags have done away with spaces in tags
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aaronpk Ah yes
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aaronpk my site was built around the hashtag idea of tagging
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kylewm.com edited /edit-examples (+132) "/* A */" (view diff)
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aaronpk Clever
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kylewm I'm not sure :)
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kylewm.com edited /edit-examples (+205) (view diff)
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kylewm remove/clear/delete are probably all too synonymous
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kylewm but i'm looking at it like the "required" cases are: create, update, delete
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kylewm and the other three are sugar
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kylewm and maybe should have more specific names like listadd, listremove, listclear
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kevinmarks delicious didn't support spaces in tags, flickr and technorati did
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kevinmarks delicious treated tag1+tag2 (+ being an escaped space) as a join over the 2 tags
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kevinmarks so when I tried to show their tags for a space-separated tag on technorati I took down their db
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kevinmarks they switched to _
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kevinmarks what is A about in /edit-examples ?
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kylewm trying out some possible formats for micropub edit parameters
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@jden415 @jongalloway have you seen https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention ? less volatile than precise selectors (twitter.com/_/status/669416895653761024)
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@jongalloway RT @jden415: @jongalloway have you seen https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention ? less volatile than precise selectors (twitter.com/_/status/669418636713570304)
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@stevedowe My Current Indieweb Setup | Acegiak – life at warp | Acegiak http://stevedowe.me/2015/11/current-indieweb-setup-acegiak-life-warp-acegiak.html (twitter.com/_/status/669469642952282112)
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petermolnar second step of slowly and painlessly walking away from wordpress in progress: moving the theme to Twig bases; it's not as bad as I thought. ( first step was to have all posts auto-exported in dir/yaml format )
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andicascadesf So I took a stab at an updated logo design for Indie Web Camp. http://andigalpern.com/clients/iwc/iwc-logo.jpg
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andicascadesf I removed the gradient and simplified everything.
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cweiske IVO?
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kylewm ohh pretty big fan of removing the gradient
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petermolnar right, but it does read IVO, as cweiske pointed out
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petermolnar it might be a little too simplified
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kylewm agree about the O
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@voxpelli @sanduhrs Noticed you're working on IndieWeb and Drupal – you may be interested in that Multiping now supports PuSH: http://blog.superfeedr.com/drupal-pubsubhubbub-multiping/ (twitter.com/_/status/669539568324968448)
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voxpelli Current logo also says IVO so not really a criticism of the new look but of the logo in general though?
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kylewm yes
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kylewm well current logo might say 3VC
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kylewm but i guess you don't immediately recognize them as letters
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aaronpk I always thought the current logo looked like EVO
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aaronpk I wonder if andi's version had a white line on the right side it might split the O and make it look more like a C
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[snarfed] it would. also a trapezoid instead of the triangle (ie flattening the bottom) would probably look more like a W
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@mdvfunes @abentleybear yes, it is a way in. Yet authors I've been reading focus more on social media and its corporate interests. @indiewebcamp hlps (twitter.com/_/status/669550814369681408)
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@abentleybear @mdvfunes @indiewebcamp The coporate take over is well underway. Am actually in the process of setting up my own website for my content. (twitter.com/_/status/669552132379414528)
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petermolnar I never really felt the need of a templating engine, since PHP started it's life as one. But I have to admit, Twig is ridiculously fast, and I'm yet to understand, how.
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aaronpk isn't twig the one that compiles down to PHP code?
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petermolnar yep, that's the one
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petermolnar though it compiles into a bit more complicated code than I expected
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aaronpk I'm in a similar boat, never really been a fan of templating engines because PHP is one, and I think it's silly to learn another syntax
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aaronpk but i started using twig recently and I kind of like it
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petermolnar portability is a relatively good reason
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petermolnar I'm having the crazy idea of moving to, for example, python in the future
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aaronpk interesting
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petermolnar and since jinja2 is more or less the same as twig, it might come handy
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petermolnar see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_%28web_framework%29#Other_languages
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petermolnar this experiment also highlights how incredibly bloated the wordpress themes are; the core is pretty snappy right now
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bret been playing with https://github.com/substack/node-trumpet its a pretty wild template system
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petermolnar what is js;dr ?
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Loqi js;dr is JavaScript required; Didn’t Read https://indiewebcamp.com/js;dr
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petermolnar unless this is on the node side
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petermolnar in that case, it's interesting, yes
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bret https://www.npmjs.com/package/hyperstream
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bret also cool
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petermolnar cool and interesting, true, but the only reason for me to switch to templating is portability
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petermolnar and this is not portable at all :)
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bret universal javascript is so accessible now, not getting a server rendered view is harder to justify
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petermolnar "universal javascript is so accessible now" in the age of spreading noscript? disagree.
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bret adblockers are spreading, noscript is still super fringe
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petermolnar that depends on your audience
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bret cant win em all
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bret been playing with react lately, i think a lot more of it now that I see its just a template engine that doesn't have a preference where it runs
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kevinmarks I like jinja2, though I get tempted to write too much code in the templates
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bret but anyway, hyperstream its just a template engine without any dsl's
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kevinmarks too much code in template example: https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung/blob/master/hfeed.html
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tantek templating is one of those low level code-restructuring itches for me
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kevinmarks I keep effectively doing it manually, and it means my pages have inconsistent includes
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tantek my current situation is I have thin static template files for the "outer" parts of my home page and Atom feed - which get dynamically filled in with a list of posts/entries respectively.
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tantek my permalink pages are 100% generated inside PHP
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tantek actually the same one PHP file does all three of those: filling in h-entry composite stream for home page, filling in <entry> elements in Atom feed, generating complete HTML page for permalinks.
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tantek the conditional code for different presentation for different (implied) post types is getting complex enough that I'll likely refactor at some point and try to move some of the code to static files
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bear I really enjoy jinja2 and how it makes me think about how i'm building a page up from the different template parts
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tantek what is jinja2
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jinja2" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107s
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tantek what is a template?
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Loqi A template is a file used to generate a page https://indiewebcamp.com/template
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kevinmarks jinja2 is a python-based [http://jinja.pocoo.org templating language] for html with rich macro support.
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loqi.me created /jinja2 (+130) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448472854360 and dfn added by kevinmarks" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek can you add it to the right section in /template too?
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kevinmarks not sure what the right section is
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tantek what kind of templating system is it?
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kevinmarks on that fits the 'Nearly all template formats use {{}} (e.g. [1]) or that and {% %}' definition
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kevinmarks which doesn't have a list
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tantek yes it does
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tantek the next section
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tantek I'll update the summary to make that clearer
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tantek hey benwerd - want to demo more goodness to an even broader audience 2015-12-02 HWC SF?
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kevinmarks a subhead of 'template formats that use {{}} might eb helpful
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tantek nah - they're all a mess ;)
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kevinmarks if we're taxonomising
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bear or break "HTML based.." up into smaller chunks by language
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kevinmarks 'cos there's another subset like jade
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tantek none of those are HTML based
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tantek fixing now
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tantek if you're using random punctuation instead of HTML, you're not HTML based
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kevinmarks right
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bear that's why I was suggesting just using language as the primary - html, js, ruby, python...
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kevinmarks there's HTML-based (which barely exist); HTML plus escaping (widespread even though tantek dislikes them); html generating from other markup
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tantek.com edited /template (+251) "update summary descriptions of HTML based vs Other" (view diff)
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tantek kevinmarks - what are specific examples of "HTML plus escaping"? None on wiki so far
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kevinmarks the set defined by 'Nearly all template formats use {{}} (e.g. [1]) or that and {% %}' and PHP
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tantek that's not HTML-based sorry
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tantek that's ASCII-based at best :P
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tantek since they assign new meaning to ASCII characters {{}} {% %}
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tantek rather than assigning new meaning to HTML markup (e.g. class="mytemplatelang-special")
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kevinmarks it is an important subset and needs a crosshead. Pick one you like
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tantek.com edited /template (+173) "/* HTML based template formats */ add clarification new ASCII {} [] markup vs. actually re-using HTML markup" (view diff)
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tantek why is it an important subset?
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voxpelli my main focus in non-static-page projects is to distinguish between what the code wants render and what a theme uses to render that – to decouple the code from the template files
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kevinmarks because of widespread use
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kevinmarks if we are to get an HTML-based one off the ground, we need to solve the iteration usecase
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tantek.com created /templating (+22) "r" (view diff)
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tantek what is the iteration usecase/
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voxpelli much prefer to have a theme system inbetween my code and the rest – that way I can more freely refactor my templates without changing my code and the other way around
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tantek.com edited /jinja2 (+71) "link the term, not a phrase, uses %} new markup syntax" (view diff)
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tantek voxpelli: yup - good "why" reason for templates
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tantek kevinmarks: the simple reason why such {{}} {% %} is bad is that it's extra syntax that's *unnecessary*.
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voxpelli tantek: templates doesn't necessarily give that separation – it means you tie your code to a specific set of template files – often more or less with hard coded paths
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tantek and thus makes usability worse
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tantek voxpelli: what to you is the difference between a "theme" and a "template"?
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tantek here let's start with this
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tantek what is a theme?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "theme" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107t
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tantek voxpelli: ^^^ go for it
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bear you need some extra syntax just for one item a template engine requires - including other files
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gRegorLove On /template, the Templating with DOM link "but where is a simple markup example of an element that is repeated?" there's examples on the linked page.
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tantek.com edited /template (+103) "/* Other template formats */ add jinja2, remove subheads that were confusing" (view diff)
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tantek bear - nah, you can use data-* attributes for example
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tantek no extra syntax needed
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singpolyma tantek: eew
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tantek welcome back singpolyma !
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singpolyma heh
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gRegorLove http://camendesign.com/dom_templating#api-repeat
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bear data-* -- yikes that seems to be a stretch to avoid the small bit of syntatic sugar to allow for includes
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voxpelli theme is an interchangeable set of [[templates]]
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loqi.me created /theme (+75) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448474170231 and dfn added by voxpelli" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek bear - it's more like syntactic vinnegar
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singpolyma so the proposal is, like, <div data-tmpl-include="other-file.html"></div> ????
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bear (I so want to toss in a "from someone who uses php...") but I am not (well, except in this passive aggressive version ;)
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tantek singpolyma: no, no proposal, just a "for example" disproof of the assertion that "you *need* some extra syntax"
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tantek bear - that's exactly why I dislike it !
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singpolyma tantek: ok. fair. I think I would rephrase "you *want* some extra syntax"
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gRegorLove hey now bear ;)
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bear haha - yea, sorry - /me resets back to his normal level of snark
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gRegorLove No worries
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tantek everytime I'm typing in some "plain" HTML into a .php file it's yuckworthy
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bear now that i'm in agreement on
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gRegorLove I'm capable of enjoying PHP and poking fun at it.
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aaronpk gRegorLove++ me too
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tantek but what's more important than is my site working, and shipping new features that I can use
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Loqi gRegorLove has 42 karma
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bear I feel the same way everytime I add a {% %} block to my templates
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gRegorLove Yes! I've arrived! No more karma, please.
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tantek s/than/than that
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Loqi tantek meant to say: but what's more important than that is my site working, and shipping new features that I can use
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bear and adding a bit of the {} allows me to make quick changes to keep my site functional *and* maintainable
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bear so it's a win-win for me
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bear I need to document my new year indieweb itch-list soon
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bear so I can have the list ready for the holiday season and jump right into it
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aaronpk itchlist++
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Loqi itchlist has 1 karma
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tantek what is bear's indieweb itch-list?
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bear i'm working on that right now - mostly to catchup on the latest micropub tweaks so I can finish the python micropub helper tool
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tantek.com edited /User:Bear.im (+100) "/* Wiki Gardening Todo */ suggest an == Itches == section per /wikifying" (view diff)
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bear and be able to post to my site using my tablet from the couch instead of having to do the post-github-generate-deploy dance
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tantek there you go bear - gave you a meta itch ;)
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bear LOL - thanks! tantek++
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tantek since you did say "please do add items to this if you feel a section needs some love... "
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tantek I added it to the end of the list assuming typical add to end preferences and that you'd reprioritize how you see fit :)
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gRegorLove Doing New Year self-challenges again this year?
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gRegorLove Er, indieweb resolutions?
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aaronpk did we call it resolutions last year? I don't like that framing but that's just me
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bear Indieweb New Year Commitment
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bear how I learned about it last year - https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-19/line/1419035683591
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gRegorLove commitment or goal sounds good to me.
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bear.im edited /User:Bear.im (+103) "wikify my itch list" (view diff)
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aaronpk oh yea we called it commitment last year
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aaronpk ha i'd freaking better have my new site launched by jan 1. that's mine.
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kodfabrik.se edited /theme (+1636) "Extending the theme page and adding examples" (view diff)
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gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments
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voxpelli ^ that there enables me to quickly retheme one of my entire projects without having to get into a maintinence hell
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voxpelli so I can focus on shipping new features instead
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@codebear Getting a jump on my #IndieWeb 2016 Commitment this year by starting the planning now — https://bear.im/bearlog/2015/329/indieweb-2016-commitment (twitter.com/_/status/669581972243640320)
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tantek bear++
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Loqi bear has 84 karma
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tantek right, these aren't new year's resolutions (which apply to next year), these are commitments to launch by 2016-01-01!
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aaronparecki.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (-10) "not a stub!" (view diff)
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tantek speaking of, we should add that to the 2016-12-02 HWC !
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voxpelli so many projects, so little time left on the year!
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tantek what is 2016-01-01-commitments?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2016-01-01-commitments" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107u
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gRegorLove Working on it
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gRegorLove Almost done with the stub
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tantek 2016-01-01-commitments are implementation and launch commitments publicly made by the IndieWeb community to ship on their personal sites by 2016-01-01 00:00 local time. Previously: [[2015-01-01-commitments]].
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loqi.me created /2016-01-01-commitments (+235) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448475892168 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+663) "stub with sections from last year" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Or not
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gRegorLove :)
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aaronpk haha sorry
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gregorlove.com edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+18) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se edited /theme (+278) "Adding sources for the Drupal example" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Indieweb_New_Year_Commitment (+36) "r" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+80) "adding my post" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+0) "oops- typo'd the date" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /User:Bear.im (+94) "add 2016-01-01 commitments" (view diff)
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tantek bear++ for being the first to state his 2016-01-01 commitment!
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bear I was sitting here wondering what to do tomorrow during the t-day break... and realized that I could help spread the word earlier by starting mine
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tantek great idea
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tantek bear, for micropub delete/update - the sooner you can *try* to implement and provide feedback here - the better.
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tantek aaronpk and others are *actively* iterating *this week* on that part of the spec
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bear yea, that is what prompted me to move it up the list
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tantek with the goal of having something solid/stable/implementation-tested even by next week for the Social Web WG f2f
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tantek ideally we'd have micropub create/delete/edit interop by then
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tantek but if not, then at least some level of implementation testing of it to make sure the approach is sensible
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bear nods
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kodfabrik.se edited /Node.js (+599) "Adding a project and a library of mine" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /User:Bear.im (+28) "/* Itches */ linky and wiki markup" (view diff)
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voxpelli tantek: aaronpk: has there been any specific results or thoughts the edit/delete from that Micropub iterating yet?
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aaronpk I haven't looked at it since last night
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kodfabrik.se edited /User:Kodfabrik.se (+197) "Enhancing links + adding more thoughts on what I want to work in" (view diff)
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voxpelli aaronpk: I haven't looked at it since last quarter I think :P
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snarfed this kind of depth makes me appreciate the work kevinmarks has been doing on hovercards (and run screaming from ever doing it myself): https://medium.com/slack-developer-blog/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-unfurling-but-were-afraid-to-ask-or-how-to-make-your-e64b4bb9254
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kodfabrik.se edited /User:Kodfabrik.se (+0) "Fixing relspider links" (view diff)
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aaronpk snarfed: that makes me want to make an oembed service that reads microformats data
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kevinmarks I have been resisting parsing ogp and twitter cards so far
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kevinmarks hm
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voxpelli aaronpk: that should be pretty easy
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kevinmarks I could make oembed from my various card efforts
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voxpelli that would be cool
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aaronpk yeah I think so. Interesting that Slack prioritized oEmbed over all others
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bear it's a json blob they can cache
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voxpelli they probably get video embeds and such then as well
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bear I should add it to my static site generate ... <url>.oembed and have that be the json blob
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aaronpk does that work?
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bear no, but then I could make an oembed service by configuring nginx properly
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aaronpk ha!
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tantek aaronpk - unsurprising as Cal (one of the lead if not the) an engineer at Slack co-created oembed ;)
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kevinmarks how does a page specify its oembed endpoint?
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kevinmarks Cal is CTO
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aaronpk oh haha
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tantek well there you go
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voxpelli oh, an mf2 to oembed converter would be a nice hack to get something like Slack to support mf2 then
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tantek yes!
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aaronpk oh it's with a link rel <link rel="alternate" type="application/json+oembed" href="...
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gRegorLove What is oembed?
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Loqi oEmbed is a 2009-era JSON-based format for providing information to construct a link-preview of a page https://indiewebcamp.com/oEmbed
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aaronpk which means you don't even need nginx hackery
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kevinmarks seems like I have most of that in unmung
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bear oh, if it is an link rel - then my static site could have them also!
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tantek yes, delegating oembed generating would be handy
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aaronpk weird, I thought it required a separate oembed endpoint but apparently not
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aaronpk that criticism on the wiki is not quite accurate then
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voxpelli we probably have quite a few services that almost does everything needed already – I almost have everything in my webmention endpoint as well now (though hesitant to make it fetch non-webmention related URL:s)
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tantek "endpoint" loosely speaking
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tantek it is a separate URL
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tantek just like feed files
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tantek of information that should "just" be on the page
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aaronpk i was looking in to this earlier actually. embed.ly is a service that does this, but there's an open source one too
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voxpelli aaronpk: in most cases the discovery isn't used, as one of the benefits of oembed is to not having to fetch the HTML – if you have already fetched it then one can just as well use the metadata within it
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tantek some seem to like side files
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bear oembed.com shows the example of it being a seperate request with the url as the parameter
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tantek bear - good point - perhaps you could help clarify the criticism on /oembed accordingly?
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voxpelli so in most cases an oembed consumer has a preregistered list of URL:s to match against
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kevinmarks I wonder if slack supports svg in a thmbnail url
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aaronpk this is the one https://github.com/itteco/iframely
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aaronpk oh and here's their splashy marketing page https://iframely.com/
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aaronpk used to be called oembedapi.com
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aaronpk not sure iframely is much better ;)
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aaronpk way to anchor your company name on the name of an obscure technology
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aaronpk (says the guy who named webmention.io)
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voxpelli eg. Embed.ly actually provides patterns one can use to match whether a URL can be fetches using their service: http://api.embed.ly/v1/api/services
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gRegorLove pauses to reconsider buying marquee.ly
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bear.im edited /User:Bear.im (+77) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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voxpelli someone should try and see if Slack supports oembed discovery
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aaronpk hm presumably they do if i'm reading that post right
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kevinmarks they do
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voxpelli cool, they will likely be one of few then
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gRegorLove kylewm: Not sure if you're tweaking Woodwind, but posts show the same background as the reply-context for me in Chrome.
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ben_thatmustbeme anyone else intersted in getting private webmentions working by the new year?
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gRegorLove Meaning sending webmentions for private posts?
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ben_thatmustbeme yup
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ben_thatmustbeme well sending is easy
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gRegorLove Generally interested, yes. Can't by the new year, though. I need private posts first. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme being able to verify them is the hard part
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gRegorLove Yeah
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ben_thatmustbeme as do I
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ben_thatmustbeme :)
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gRegorLove what is private post?
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Loqi private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/private_post
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[kevinmarks] so do I get an ombed for http://kevinmarks.com
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GWG Afternoon
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@jden415 @jongalloway the more I play with, the more linking to a text phrase seems most useful' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/669424163921203201)
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Loqi [bridgy] Jon Galloway replied '@jden415 Nice. I like that they discuss CSS and XPath as well.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (https://twitter.com/jongalloway/status/669418769341677568)
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kevinmarks that was a while ago
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kevinmarks hm
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kevinmarks is there an oembed tester?
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kevinmarks so, slack doesn't call oembed for pages
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kevinmarks at least not mine
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kevinmarks so that was a waste of time
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andicascadesf 8)
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kevinmarks hi andi
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davidpeach hey y'all
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andicascadesf Hi Kevin and David!
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andicascadesf @aaronpk I have to reset the Eventbrite password for events@indiewebcamp.com. They sent me an email to reset the password, but it’s not working. Going to guess it’s because I have to click the link directly from the events@indiewebcamp.com email. When you get a chance, can you reset the password OR is there anyway I could login to events@indiewebcamp.com directly?
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aaronpk andicascadesf: there is no account, that address just forwards to you. check your spam folder though.
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andicascadesf I did receive the email, but when I went to reset the password, it’s not working.
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andicascadesf https://www.eventbrite.com/resetpassword?h=3fc8a7e5811cc6e5751fbc25ad61edf1158673272&mobile_client=None&utm_source=eb_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=reset_password&destination=/myevents
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aaronpk that's odd, I do this all the time with other services. there isn't really anything else I can do on this end.
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andicascadesf hmm
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andicascadesf It’s weird because I got into the account
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andicascadesf Just realized that it allowed me to access it! It must be a bug because it says “there was a problem resetting the password.”
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andicascadesf :-)
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aaronpk so you got back in okay?
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andicascadesf yes.
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aaronpk great
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kevinmarks weird, AMP is posting on wordpress, not blogger or G+ https://amphtml.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/bringing-you-up-to-speed-on-amp/
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tantek what is AMP?
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Loqi AMP is Accelerated Mobile Pages, a Google-led project that speeds up a subset of HTML through caching and dependencies on google: https://indiewebcamp.com/AMP
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tantek perhaps add that link to ^^^ ?
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voxpelli seems to be a trend, Facebook is also posting on WordPress: https://notify.co/
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+1623) "/* minimal separate field UI */ braindump an implementation strategy" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+547) "/* minimal separate field UI */ a few more implementation details" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se edited /template (+12) "/* See Also */ Add link to theme page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+52) "/* minimal separate field UI */ description" (view diff)
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tantek taking me longer to implement person-tag support than I expected, so I'm braindumping my thinking as I iterate and approach a solution: https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#minimal_separate_field_UI
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tantek feedback welcome! (especially anything you think is "overthinking" the problem, if you can help simplify)
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andicascadesf I got inspired and worked on a modern logo for IWC
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andicascadesf http://andigalpern.com/clients/iwc/iwc-modlogo.png
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andicascadesf LMK what you guys think – I removed the gradient to keep it simple.
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kevinmarks the previous one was SVG - did you make a vector version?
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andicascadesf yes, i have a vector version.
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andicascadesf I wanted to see if you guys like it first
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andicascadesf I made it in Illustrator
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andicascadesf i’ll be back
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andicascadesf going to grab food!
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kevinmarks the previous one had the stylised letters centred over the words they abbreviate
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snarfed !tell andicascadesf cool! lots of feedback earlier in case you missed it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25#t1448462922435 (scroll down from there)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kevinmarks !tell andicascadesf the previous one almost had the words aligned with the stylised letters - yours is more asymmetric http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/2d
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kevinmarks !tell andicascadesf I made a HWC clone logo that aligned them more http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/1k
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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acegiak morning, all
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kevinmarks hello acegiak
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-faq (+267) "add faq about the canonical spec url" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention-faq (+323) "how does webmention scale" (view diff)
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gRegorLove So we have three different sites for webmention now, heh. webmention.org, webmention.net, and IWC
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kevinmarks and w3c
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tantek indeed I think aaronpk is addressing that
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kevinmarks https://github.com/w3c-social/webmention
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gRegorLove Why not redirect the .org and .net to IWC?
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gRegorLove .net is the wiki page currently, including some <nowiki> tags
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aaronpk working on it lol
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aaronpk sandeep has the .org and hasn't been around lately
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aaronpk see also: https://indiewebcamp.com/Webmention-faq#What_is_the_canonical_URL_for_the_Webmention_spec
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tantek that would be good to note (about the .org being out of date, and maybe with nowiki so as to not link to it)
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aaronpk the .org redirects to github which is out of date
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tantek huh
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tantek yeah a github redirect does not look as "official"
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tantek more like 'work in progress'
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tantek which webmention is way beyond
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kevinmarks updated the link from existing rel values
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kevinmarks and http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-webmention
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kevinmarks which was another point from the long thread before it went sideways
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