#indiewebcamp 2016-03-03

2016-03-03 UTC
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sknebel because otherwise it should have redirected you to the page URL?
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Sounds about right. My homepage is an example of that. Just my latest article in an h-entry, u-url is the post permalink
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aaronpk as we speak, just got another connect error from a random domain, since they mapped their domain to blogger. so yeah i'm gonna have to do something more complicated than a whitelist
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snarfed aaronpk: it's also funny that your problem where xray can't fetch google urls (or needs that option) is PHP-specific
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snarfed ie bridgy (python) fetches google urls fine without any corresponding option
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snarfed meh
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snarfed oh btw aaronpk re that day's worth of wmio stats, how many total incoming wms did it get?
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snarfed just curious
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aaronpk huh that's weird
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aaronpk looks like about 900 which seems lower than i would have expected
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aaronpk i'm actually looking at the number of requests to XRay, not actually looking a webmention.io, but it does a request to XRay for every incoming webmention (after it rate limits a little)
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snarfed cool
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gRegorLove aaronpk: What if you always included X-Appengine-Inbound-Appid in the headers?
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gRegorLove Nevermind, can't be modified by your app
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gRegorLove https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/php/urlfetch/#PHP_Request_headers
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aaronpk fun fact: if you encountered any HTTP redirects when fetching a page, don't forget to use the last URL as the reference URL when dealing with the page afterwards
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aaronpk e.g. if you fetch aaron.pk/4Zn5 then make sure you use the resulting URL on aaronparecki.com when passing to the microformats parser otherwise all the relative URLs in the parsed result will be wrong
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KartikPrabhu good point
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aaronpk it looks obvious in that case, but is much more subtle when the URL is aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/... vs aaronparecki.com/2015/...
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[kevinmarks] hm, I wodner if unmung gets that right
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aaronpk so glad I am only writing this code once
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[kevinmarks] which urls in http://aaron.pk/4Zn5 are relative?
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aaronpk u-photo is
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KartikPrabhu ruh-roh! mf2py does not seem to be doing that correctly then!
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aaronpk is mf2py the thing making the http request?
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aaronpk (i normally make the http request myself before handing it off to the php parser)
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[kevinmarks] yes, it uses aaron.pk
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: if you give mf2py a URL it will make the request
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aaronpk then consider this a bug report :)
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KartikPrabhu yup looking it up and filing
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KartikPrabhu filed: https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/62
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aaronpk i do like how easily i can roll back a version on appengine
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snarfed also traffic splitting for a/b testing
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gRegorLove And on php-mf2: https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/84
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snarfed (or canarying)
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aaronpk huh. now i'm kind of thinking it just never follows redirects in appengine
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KevinMarks hm, that URL redirects 3 times
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aaronpk yeah
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KevinMarks http://aaron.pk/4Zn5 301 to https://aaronparecki.com/r/4Zn5 302 to https://aaronparecki.com/2014/12/23/5 302 to https://aaronparecki.com/2014/12/23/5/travel
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] SFO ✈️ SLC ✈️ PDX #travel
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aaronpk ha one of those worked
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aaronpk yeah that's intentional
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gRegorLove 3 redirects, 3 airports
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aaronpk aaron.pk is just an nginx rewrite rule, no code behind it
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aaronpk the r/4Zn5 URL is a module in p3k that expands it to the date, but has no other context at that point in time
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aaronpk then the actual URL router expands 2014/12/23/5 to include the "travel" slug since that post has a custom slug
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aaronpk I *could* save that last redirect, but can't skip the first one
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snarfed is glad he caches redirects
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KevinMarks well, the last 2 are 302 so strictly you shouldn't
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KevinMarks OK, fixed unmung so the relative URLs work correctly
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KevinMarks thanks aaronpk for the test case
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aaronpk nice
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aaronpk hm i should fix those since they should be 301
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KevinMarks (I was fetching outside mf2py so I can use etag etc)
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@kevinmarks @RachelHaywire come talk about it https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-02 - we have various alternatives (twitter.com/_/status/705202369206755328)
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snarfed merrily ignores "strictly"s
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/RachelHaywire/status/705199250049671168
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@RachelHaywire I may have to be the one to create an alternative to Twitter myself at this rate. Is nobody doing it? (twitter.com/_/status/705199250049671168)
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snarfed fortunately my effective cache lifetime is ~12h so it doesn't matter too much in practice
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gRegorLove https://twitter.com/RachelHaywire/status/705184529212805121
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@RachelHaywire Someone leaked a private picture of me on an impersonator account and Twitter is not suspending them, even though I verified my identity. (twitter.com/_/status/705184529212805121)
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@geoffpicus RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705219134632558592)
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aaronpk so i'm still pretty stumped on this appengine redirect handling stuff
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aaronpk for some reason it won't parse this URL on the live version, but is fine on my dev copy https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http://aaron.pk/4Zn5
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aaronpk also hahaha wow i should add caching to it
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aaronpk when I paste a link in here, 5 requests are made to the URL immediately
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aaronpk several IRC clients and also SlackBot
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bear yea, a lot of IRC clients now do head requests to get media content info
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aaronpk more helpful error message now: https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http://aaron.pk/4Zn5
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bear nicely worded
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aaronpk *sigh* my heuristic for detecting a canonical post is failing with bridgy
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aaronpk because bridgy doesn't set the bridgy URL as the url of the h-entry
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snarfed :/
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aaronpk i'll add another case to check if there is only exactly one item on the page
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aaronpk that seems reasonable
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aaronpk even aside from bridgy
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snarfed music to my ears
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aaronpk hm actually i thought i had that test in there already. wonder what's different about the bridgy markup
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[kevinmarks] Unmung.com can fetch that url fine. What is different between PHP and python?
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snarfed [kevinmarks]: yeah i noted the same thing. unclear, but definitely different
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aaronpk the aaron.pk url?
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aaronpk fix for single h-entry is deployed
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aaronpk also can i just say again how great it is to be able to roll back to a previous version so easily?
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snarfed huh i'm kinda surprised you do that so much (?)
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snarfed but glad you like it!
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aaronpk well just right now since i launched this change and started seeing errors from bridgy urls
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aaronpk gave me a chance to revert before launchign a fix!
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snarfed fair enough!
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acegiak GWG: Trying to work out how to make it so that when I post from the wordpress app which doesn't specify a kind, obviously, posts get auto-marked as the "note" kind
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GWG acegiak: Long time no speak.
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GWG acegiak: I have an idea for that I was considering implementing.
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GWG acegiak: A 'default' kind you can set. Right now, it is unofficially note.
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acegiak yeah I think that's a good idea
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GWG I have a site where i'd want it to default to article. And I could think of other similar scenarios
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acegiak yeah definitely
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acegiak shall I have a crack and if it works, PR it?
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acegiak is the wordpress repo up to date with the github version or should I grab the latest github version first?
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GWG Please. I've been laid up the last week and a half with a respiratory thing. I'm on vacation after tomorrow for a few days. Was planning on doing some minor tweaks.
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GWG The github version has a few tweaks.
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GWG That I haven't pushed to stable. Mostly bugfixes
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acegiak aw 😢 hope you're ok
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GWG Just bronchitis.
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acegiak okiedoke. I'll try a fiddle with default post kind and have a look into why kses is acting up again
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GWG But I was working on the Indieweb Plugin improvement stuff, if you were following that
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acegiak I've been busy working on game design stuff for a few months
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GWG Basically, moving rel-me and h-card basic functionality into the Indieweb plugin so installing/configuring it helps you establish your identity online
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acegiak ah cool
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GWG And since I believe in self-dogfooding, it has to at least have enough features for me to switch to.
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GWG But yesterday, I noticed some design issues with Post Kinds and some themes and wanted to try to fix them.
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acegiak at some point I should really just redo whisperfollow the fact that the code is so messy I'm not sure how I'd make it a thing other people could use easily
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GWG acegiak: I say that about most of my work. But if you keep iterating, it seems to get less...messy, I've learned of late.
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[kevinmarks] copy paste until it works, refactor at leisure
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[kevinmarks] nice to see you here again acegiak
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GWG KevinMarks: I've learned a lot making mistakes over the years.
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[kevinmarks] wisdom is often just having explored more mistakes first
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acegiak oh hi KevinMarks!
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KevinMarks hi acegiak - my woodwind feed starts my day with you smiling every morning, so it's nice to see you here too
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acegiak 😄 it's really interesting the way my 2016 daily journal & selfie project affects a bunch of my relationships that I hadn't considered
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acegiak I hope my lastfm and youtube scrobbling doesn't spam anyone's feed too much. I've specifically got them categorised so that it should be easy to filter them out
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bear aaronpk - I spent about an hour trying to write words explaining how to submit articles to the aggregator i'm writing and to be honest, yours are so much better - so i'm going to be borrowing chunks of your how-to page
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bear and adding a lot of gushing praise in the /about for you and others
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KartikPrabhu1 bear: will I be in it for standing by and watching while people do things? ;
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KartikPrabhu1 ;)
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bear your not standing by at all
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KartikPrabhu damnit I don't even get credit for being lazy ;P
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bear and yes, I will be working almost everyone into the about
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begriffs Thinking about breaking out of silos like Slack, I'd like to host a chat server for some coworkers. What's best: running an irc server or xmpp (or something else)?
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bear both will work, it all depends on which you feel comfortable running
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bear xmpp is useful if you already have a comfort with it's clients
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bear irc is what you will find easier to share with others
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KartikPrabhu bear: any particular reason?
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bear mostly the clients
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KartikPrabhu as in why is irc easier to share?
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bear they are messaging oriented and the chat interfaces are harder to use
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bear with IRC you get them to install a client and give the server info
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bear with xmpp they will need an xmpp identity (or you give them one)
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bear personally I prefer xmpp over irc, but that's because i've lived with xmpp for decades and know it's problems well
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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bear it's getting better - but not enough that I can even point you at a web interface for xmpp that doesn't make me wince
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begriffs bear: how about a client app like Adium, is that one OK?
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KartikPrabhu begriffs: in my experience Adium and Pidgin are fine with both IRc and XMPP
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bear yes, adium works with both xmpp and irc
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bear another good xmpp client is Swift.im
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bear a good irc client is Textual
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bear tho without knowing the tech level of your coworkers (or how patient you are)... it's hard to say
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begriffs Suppose people are happy to use swift.im and I'm running eJabberd on digitalocean...I would have to create accounts for each user, right? Would they be able to change their own passwords?
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bear you would have to create them or allow in-band registration
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bear allowing in band registration is tough to control if your site url gets out to the public
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bear once they are online with their account they control it
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KartikPrabhu sounds almost like a "security risk" ?
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KartikPrabhu or spam/abuse
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bear spam/abuse mostly
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begriffs Is it possible to create a kind of site-wide password to protect in-band registration?
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bear not really - I don't think ejabberd allows that
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bear if your a web dev, you could create a small page for them to sign up - and then run the ejabberd command line request to add a user
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bear but i'm not that familiar with how ejabberd's admin stuff works
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begriffs Or maybe a newer self-hosted thing is better like http://www.mattermost.org
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bear if your willing to do that I would look at http://getkaiwa.com/
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bear it's a web oriented xmpp client with good notes on how to setup xmpp server
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bear because it can use ldap to manage users
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rrix I run and recommend matrix.org stuff
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rrix You can bridge rooms in to the silos
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bear another option - yep, they are good at bridging
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bear please do let us know which you tried and liked (and any you didn't)
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KartikPrabhu begriffs: it is always good to document these decisions. maybe a blogposrt
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begriffs Matrix looks fascinating.
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bear or entries in your indiewebcamp page as you work thru them
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acegiak god I wish I could work out a nice way to posse to google plus
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bear waves and wanders off to bed
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+218) "/* Poor handling of abuse */ note Twitter's history with bad handling of abuse since 2008 (citation)" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "235 Days on the Indieweb; something changed" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/235-days-on-the-indieweb-something-changed
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@pypi_updates ronkyuu 0.3.5: Webmention Manager https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ronkyuu/0.3.5 (twitter.com/_/status/705326499914752000)
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petermolnar what is Mightybell?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Mightybell" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fj
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petermolnar Mightybell is a community as service web/mobile platform; https://mightybell.com
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loqi.me created /Mightybell (+107) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-03/line/1456998757413 and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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rMdes about xmpp/irc selfhosting earlier : https://github.com/YunoHost this nice tool help you get a nice dashboard with all your apps users@yourdomain.tld
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rMdes https://yunohost.org/#/apps
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rMdes they use Jappix
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rMdes it's really a one click install and you get your xmpp network up & running + web interface or conect your own client if you prefer
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petermolnar rMdes setting up openfire or prodosy is not really heavy for xmpp; and irc server is even more easy to do so
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rMdes indeed it is, I have gone both ways just to learn
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rMdes played both with prosody & openfire ended up with jappix for what I needed it was great, mostly because i needed a single sign on solution to switch between apps
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rMdes and Yunohost does it perfectly
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petermolnar I used to do a lot of the preinstalled os thing, or the web interface os editor ( like eBox or Virtualmin ) but it always leads to misunderstanding / not getting how things really work
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petermolnar eBox goes as Zentyal these days, sorry
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rMdes that's true also for yunohost, i had to digg a bit under the rublles to get how they make it work, in the end it's bash scripting adapted to each platform/os so it was easy to learn & see where things go
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petermolnar that is true
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cweiske but people using click-and-go software don't care how things work
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cweiske they just wat it working
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rMdes true indeed, but I feel bothered if I dont know how the nginx.conf is being written lol
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petermolnar I know; however - and I know this sounds horrible - I don't want those people to use their own things
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petermolnar for them, let the hosted solutions work
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cweiske why?
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petermolnar because people who don't want to know how things work are liability and security risks
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acegiak the sso thing with yunohost is what's making it appealing to me
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cweiske they can get auto updates
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petermolnar always keep home wifi routers in mind
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petermolnar and how they are still used as botnets
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cweiske i don't care what core config debian has for init.d
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cweiske i only care that it wrks
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rMdes yunohost is helping a lot of people get into the real of selfhosting and self managing your own shit, it's very good, because when they get frustrared by it's limitations, they either participate with solution, or move on to real self hosted without on-click solution, but it's too late, they are already on the journey to never go back to hotmail or gmail
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cweiske or udev
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petermolnar cweiske not that low
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petermolnar I bet you do care about having a firewall, right?
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cweiske on my laptop? no
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cweiske on my home server? no
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petermolnar ???
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cweiske on my router? yes
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acegiak petermolnar: feel like you're creating a weird poweruser/non-poweruser dichotomy that doesn't really exist
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cweiske on the server on the internet? yes
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petermolnar acegiak you're misunderstanding me: those who "I just want it to work" should not host their own, internet facing _server_. It's dangerous, not for them, but for anyone else using the internet.
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petermolnar rMdes as a learning tool, it's nice and is needed
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petermolnar we all started somewhere
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petermolnar cweiske when the router and the server is separated, the approach of having security on the router is usually enough, unless there is upnp on the box, or a forwarded port
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acegiak petermolnar: by that logic people shouldn't be allowed to set up wordpress on a cheap shared host with an install wizard?
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rMdes i started from just wanting my own VPS with my own tools running, its only after that that i went yunohost for some cases and I learned a lot just by doing this journey with a few people, it's really great !
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acegiak like, where are you drawing these sand lines?
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acegiak If my sister wants to set up yunohost on a raspberry pi, what bad things are going to happen that are not going to happen on a service where she's payed a third party?
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petermolnar acegiak cheap shared host is in theory managed by someone
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acegiak who does what? leet counterhacking the chinese infiltrators?
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acegiak if the system is set up correctly it shouldn't matter where it is
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petermolnar I am well aware that this argument is problematic and sounds offensive; I was trying to phrase it as nice as I could. Currently there are billions of devices out there, actually participating as a botnet element, and they are mostly the maintained, outdated things that someone once installed and never really cared about, because "I just want it to work"
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petermolnar and this upsets me
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acegiak that's fair
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petermolnar but the questions is very hard to answer and you are right, there are not clear boundaries
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rMdes I understand this point, but it does not mean to be necessarily the case
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petermolnar s/maintained/unmaintained
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acegiak I don't think that's the fault of projects like yunohost, I think that's the fault of paid consumer products that claim to just work in a disposable society
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petermolnar it's obviously not any projects fault
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petermolnar it's the fault of trying to make computing easy and user-friendly
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rMdes I know by experience, that if you get yunohost set up you're only at the begining of learning more, and that can only be good, for anyone
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acegiak running something like yunohost would actively make people feel more in control of an responsible for their system
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petermolnar rMdes same goes for a raspberry PI, which is still presented as a learning platform
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petermolnar acegiak the responsibility part I unfortunately doubt
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petermolnar how many Mac owners you know feel responsible for their laptop?
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rMdes having all these nice apps easy to install, you still have to learn how to maintain your OS and have it patched at system level for security issues etc...so it's really a process, something you get to do more along the road
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rMdes learning platform = the web :)
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acegiak petermolnar: a mac owner feels more responsible for their laptop than their work computer
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acegiak like, yeah they want it to "just work" but the fact that the work computer has an associated "IT guy" makes it less their problem
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acegiak it's all degrees I guess
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petermolnar we obviously need things like Zentyal, like yunohost, raspberry pi, etc.
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acegiak honestly, right now, I'm looking at how to set up yunohost and migrate my personal blog because I've done way more damage to my own security trying to work out SSO on my own than any prepackaged solution could ever create
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petermolnar but they all should face towards the learning curve, not the "just click here"
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petermolnar rasberry pi does this
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petermolnar for learning coding
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acegiak "just click here" should exist, but it should exist with appropriately conservative development and support. then there are a thousand degrees of control all the way up to writing your own OS for your host system
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petermolnar acegiak I disagree, the just click here should be XY as Service, maintained by people who do actually care
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acegiak That's pretty much what I said
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petermolnar I misunderstood then, sorry
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acegiak appropriate support
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petermolnar so, is anyone aware of a self-hosted OS, which is, similarly to Rasberry, trying to teach and push towards learning the rest behind it? Yunohost is not a bad start, but for me, their website is advocating and "it's just one click, anyone can do it" approach, not the "this is how you start, and click here to learn more"
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bear i've been keeping an interest in some of the new micro kernels for that reason
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petermolnar you need to expand that thought
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bear they don't require intense sysadmin skills, would allow for easy-click app installs and could then be hosted on top of a robust/secure host os
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bear pair them up with a backed-up data/file mount and you have something that is consumer friendly
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petermolnar that is what docker is used for these days, which is even a worse security nightmare ( here, download this container image and run in, first pipe this bash from the internets to install prerequisites )
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bear right - I'm not talking about docker tho because IMO it's too much like root access to a fleet of machines
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petermolnar I know
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bear but if we give app devs a micro kernel target
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bear and an api to store configs
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bear and an api to store data
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petermolnar I mean I get it that the microkernel approach is really different
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bear then they can write apps that can be securely hosted and migrated
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bear without having to be sysadmins
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rMdes just throwing this here : www.internetcu.be - it is the rasberry like arch I use to run some yunohost for friends
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petermolnar I've seen this a few days ago, and I was impressed, especially that they are advocating an open hardware solution
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bear 5 years ago I thought small brick/pi/whatevs type devices would be key - something every house could have in their homes
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rMdes & its also a nice "indieweb" gift to give out there: hey here's is your domain, your site, your data and your contacts/emails/agenda in one box, have fun !
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bear yea, the cube idea is something i've been thinking about - paired up with the api's I was just talking about
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bear yea, but it still suffers from a support issue IMO
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bear in 5 yrs we would be dealing with cubes that haven't been updated in 5 yrs and are now hacked/pwnd
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bear ugh - it's 0530 and the sun is rising - time for me to go to bed
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petermolnar GOTO sleep
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bear :)
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bear waves
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petermolnar I went seriously offtopic with this argument, sorry about that
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rMdes I need to run away, catch ya'll later
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rMdes good night bear
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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petermolnar o/
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@comzeradd @DimitrisTzouris Yeap. I was considering to set my own instance as a POSSE tool https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE @kevinmarks @vrypan (twitter.com/_/status/705364184909934592)
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petermolnar looking back on my long deleted tweets, trying to identify the first time I tried POSSE; it looks like Aug 2011. It didn't know the term and was referring to it as cross-posting, only to Twitter, and that idea failed miserably. I'm glad I've found indiewebcamp ~3 years after that :) ( why: I'm looking at /timeline which got me wondering how much behind I'd been with the same idea )
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petermolnar I've hit an interesting wall that time: most of the people following me at silo X were following me elsewhere as well ( or my site itself ), thus POSSE was generating redundancy and noise; now I remember I never got to the bottom of this issue
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petermolnar had anyone else had trouble with this?
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singpolyma A little. My fiancee unfollowed my Twitter when I started posting everything to Facebook also
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singpolyma but with facebook's algorithmic timeline, most users don't see most of my stuff anyway, so other overlapping followers haven't complained
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petermolnar that algorithm wasn't always as bad as today; a few years ago most of the content was actually visible
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voxpelli early on when Twitter was young and there were many competing microblogs, then duplicate content was a real problem
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voxpelli following someone on two networks didn't really work as one got all their content twice then
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voxpelli best case scenario would be a combined Twitter + IndieWeb reader that could deduplicate posts
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petermolnar that's tricky, but not impossible; if link in silo content, check for endpoint link in indie site, if exists, drop
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petermolnar if the user is the same, so a rel=me backcheck is needed
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petermolnar ( endpoint link = the very last in potential 301/302 redirect chain due to url shorteners )
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sknebel_ petermolnar: isn't that what rel-syndication is for, or did I misunderstand that? (haven't played with POSSE yet)
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petermolnar it is, indeed, but I wouldn't rely solely on that
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sknebel_ k, thx
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@JohnnySoftware RT @jgarber @mrcoulson Yes, they are! They’re at version 2 now (http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2) and are the foundation of many new IndieWeb technologies. (twitter.com/_/status/705392940743524352)
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petermolnar !tell tantek if I load your page with 3rd party content blocked, it fries Firefox with a script timeout message as chrome://global/content/bindings/videocontrols.xml:1523
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@jgmac1106 RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705399047541157888)
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@ecobytes RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705401774341947392)
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@transforlab RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705401774484525056)
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@fedwiki RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705401774471970816)
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@OuiShareLabs RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705401774425833472)
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@jgmac1106 @RikMende @kevinmarks @davewiner Find it difficult to imagine a world where webmentions, RSS, and #indieweb are not on the same team (twitter.com/_/status/705410056418942976)
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@marcthiele Oh btw … all links I post here are also available on my own website. http://marcthiele.com/links #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/705418428698468353)
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@strugee2 RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/705419732048957440)
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aaronpk i used 2.2 instance hours over the free tier yesterday
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aaronpk that cost me $0.11
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petermolnar my server costs me 29€/month, so I believe you're paying much less than that
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aaronpk sadly this is not the only server expense I have :P
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petermolnar I was expecting that, but who knows? :)
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@dustyweb RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/705427755458899968)
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@TerminalPixel @royhendo #indieweb should be the future, but only really suitable for nerdy, diy types at the moment (twitter.com/_/status/705434871313928192)
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@RikMende RT @jgmac1106 @RikMende @kevinmarks @davewiner Find it difficult to imagine a world where webmentions, RSS, and #indieweb are not on the same team (twitter.com/_/status/705442001030881286)
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@RikMende @jgmac1106 @kevinmarks precisely why after followed @davewiner progress with FIA the missing chunk is logically #indieweb for me #my2cens (twitter.com/_/status/705442298004377601)
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@kevinmarks Sounds like Josh has the #indieweb principles in mind https://twitter.com/joshelman/status/704704177285439489 (twitter.com/_/status/705448539967520769)
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@withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech (twitter.com/_/status/705449684400144384)
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@hexmasteen RT @withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech (twitter.com/_/status/705451080730210304)
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aaronpk doh, just looked at the logs for xray
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aaronpk "CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION cannot be activated when an open_basedir is set" so that's why it's not working with aaron.pk
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snarfed acegiak: re posse to G+, i've seen code that opens the G+ share box with your content pre-filled. still have to click "post" manually, but still mostly automated.
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snarfed or you can try to get into their private API like known, wordpress, etc :P
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@jgmac1106 RT @withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech (twitter.com/_/status/705454551462240257)
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gRegorLove KartikPrabhu POSSEs to g+, not sure how.
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gRegorLove Probably manually
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snarfed until it hurts
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kylewm just put it off until G+ shuts down. only a matter of time.
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snarfed kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 303 karma
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snarfed what is site death prediction market
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "site death prediction market" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fk
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+267) "another 2 RSVPs via eventbrite wow, so many" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme pertty nice the number of RSVPs we are getting from eventbrite for IWC MIT
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[jgarber] Got my first pornspam webmention today. My little IndieWeb site is all grown up!
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Loqi [jgarber]: tantek left you a message 1 day, 14 hours ago: would you say that FrancisCMS is easily installable by someone other than the creator(s)? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-01/line/1456889913545
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aaronpk via *webmention*?!
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aaronpk not pingback?
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snarfed i'm very curious too
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snarfed [jgarber]: was it bridgy? or native?
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snarfed if native afaik it would be the first confirmed native webmention spam
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snarfed mind sharing the link?
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Loqi [indieweb] "ifttt" https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=https://adactio.com/links/tags/ifttt&ct=ga&cd=CAIyGmNjY2M1YTg1MDgwMTM0ODg6Y29tOmVuOlVT&usg=AFQjCNFHidUDZvbD66prTN5geiGZ4UKr3A
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[jgarber] aaronpk snarfed The source was directly from xnxx.com (VERY NSFW) and it was native. I have a form on my post pages where someone can paste a URL so it could very well have come in that way than from, say, the command line or someone else's posting interface.
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aaronpk oh so just comment form spam?
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[jgarber] Odds are someone pasted that URL into the form here: https://sixtwothree.org/posts/launching-franciscms-onto-the-indieweb
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Loqi [Jason Garber] Launching FrancisCMS onto the IndieWeb
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[jgarber] aaronpk Essentially, yeah.
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voxpelli [jgarber]: but did it actually validate then?
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aaronpk ah it's a webmention form! interesting
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[jgarber] @voxpelli: I didn’t bother validating once I saw the source.
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voxpelli [jgarber]: thinking that your webmention receiver would automatically discard it upon failed validation, but perhaps not?
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[jgarber] @voxpelli: My validation method still has some kinks in it, so I don’t delete non-validated webmentions. They stay unvalidated and don’t show up on the public side of my site.
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[jgarber] * don’t delete invalid webmentions, that is.
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voxpelli I see :)
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[jgarber] tantek: I’d say FrancisCMS is of moderate difficulty for someone familiar with Rails. The documentation is _pretty_ thorough but does require some specific knowledge. shaners works with Rails (I believe) and might be a good judge of my “moderate difficulty” assessment and/or the quality of the documentation.
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[jgarber] But it’s not “easy” like Known is easy.
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@dougiemchale RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1 (twitter.com/_/status/705467017193758721)
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@forgottemplars RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1 (twitter.com/_/status/705466420868554752)
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@deathwizard57 RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1 (twitter.com/_/status/705466399041392640)
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1 (twitter.com/_/status/705466371442925568)
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@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1 (twitter.com/_/status/705466277633134593)
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: manual posse to G+
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voxpelli just looked at my logs again, my WebMention endpoint still looks to have consistently around 30 active realtime streams on it
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voxpelli really looking forward to getting some more time to spend on it
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gRegorLove realtime streams?
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voxpelli gRegorLove: so that WebMentions received can be pushed out to everyone currently viewing a site that uses its WebMention embed
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gRegorLove Oh, interesting
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snarfed [jgarber]: i'd be curious to know if it validated, ie if it linked to that page on your site correctly
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snarfed if it did, then it's arguably the first native webmention spam, which is notable
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snarfed (even if we don't know whether they submitted the form by hand or automatically)
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petermolnar [jgarber] I'm interested as well, check if that source has the target url :)
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petermolnar according to /timeline it was about a year between pingbacks and pingback spam, so it's about time for webmentions...
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voxpelli the value one would get out of webmention is very limited right now though :P
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petermolnar I know the spam problem was addressed with the idea of vouch, but has anyone came up with anything against the ddos/dos that could happen because there is too much remote data to process?
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aaronpk dos and ddos are two very different problems
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petermolnar normally it is, but I'm not referring to the results of many remote connections now
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aaronpk which do you mean?
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petermolnar eg. acception mentions is a queue if fine, that's a minor operation, not much cost
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voxpelli I'm dealing with DoS in such a way that I'm throttling the lookup of source URL:s by domain
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petermolnar but parsing the remote content is pretty expensive
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aaronpk so you're talking about the DoS problem, not DDoS
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GWG Afternoon
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voxpelli and I do know how to scale up my fetching + parsing to handle probably a couple of hundred submissions a second – tried and tested in the real world
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petermolnar voxpelli those are massive numbers
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aaronpk where did you get that kind of traffic in real world cases?
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voxpelli aaronpk: the firehose of Bloglovin ;)
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aaronpk ah, not related to webmention?
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voxpelli well, I'm using the same base parser in my webmention endpoint
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voxpelli so if it ever becomes a problem I can just move it over to Amazon lambda and have it scale the way we did at Bloglovin
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voxpelli the only dos problem I would have then would be the possibly dos:ing of my wallet :P
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@jmenglund03 Curious to see if there will be any intersections between #indieweb and upcoming #wpcampusorg...potential speaker topic? (twitter.com/_/status/705478309157548032)
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KevinMarks hm http://hello.com/about/
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Loqi [indieweb] "On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech" by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2016/on-the-east-coast-believe-in-an-open-web-indie
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KartikPrabhu app-only;dr
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aaronpk about-page-mentions-ex-googler;dr
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aaronpk no offense to ex-googlers here ;)
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aaronpk is getting tired of the shiny-new-app launches and mentions it's made by ex-googlers thing
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kylewm yes, "ex-googler" as an appeal to authority is b.s.
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gRegorLove They should get together and make a startup ex-oogle
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petermolnar lol: that hello.com is 503 for me; entering "is it up" in duckduckgo reveals duckduckgo has is [] up as a built-in feature now
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gRegorLove What is duckduckgo?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "duckduckgo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fm
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gRegorLove duckduckgo is a search engine https://duckduckgo.com
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loqi.me created /duckduckgo (+79) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-03/line/1457035083673 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm "Stay beautiful" == I just threw up in my mouth
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petermolnar interesting
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gregorlove.com moved /duckduckgo to /DuckDuckGo "capitalization"
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petermolnar that hello.com is only available is I go through a US proxy
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petermolnar it throws an 503 from UK or Germany
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aaronpk odd
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petermolnar intentional I believe
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gregorlove.com edited /DuckDuckGo (+40) "link, see also, period" (view diff)
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KevinMarks lol at Orkut emphasising ex-google engineers as the orignal orkut was running on windows on a box under his desk and it took ages to get it onto gogole infrastucture
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petermolnar they had to rewrite it a little and now it's called G+ /s
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aaronpk how many ex-googlers do we have here?
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kylewm only 2 i'm aware of
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KevinMarks orkut, buzz and I think G+ did all use the Shindig
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KevinMarks https://shindig.apache.org/
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aaronpk willnorris and bslatkin are still at google right?
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KevinMarks me and Ryan?
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KevinMarks yes
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aaronpk guess they don't count until they leave :P
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[jgarber] snarfed @petermolnar Just curl’ed the source URL and there’s no link to my site in the markup. So definitely spam.
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petermolnar ah, I was just about to celebrate the first webmention spam
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aaronpk stashes away a bottle of champagne to break out when we get the first webmention spam
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sknebel_ once something wordpress-related discusses webmentions or something like them is included in wordpress, there are going to be "SEO experts" raving about it
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KevinMarks thats a weird 500 page
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KevinMarks it links to the medium top 100 page, which is down too
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+27) "section placeholder" (view diff)
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petermolnar http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35709680
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gRegorLove Can someone with a Medium account expand /Medium#Exporting_your_data with actual links/instructions?
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KevinMarks once it's up again
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aaronpk feel free to add this to the wiki https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-03-03-12-14-42.png
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petermolnar where does the link go?
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petermolnar the 'find something interesting...'? to another 500?
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KevinMarks https://medium.com/top-100
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aaronpk to the top 100 list, which is on medium.com so it's also down
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gRegorLove Heh. Medium's top 100 page loads for me
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gRegorLove And the individual articles on there
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gRegorLove But 500'd on a reload.
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petermolnar "On an internet full of hurried, scruffy ballpoints, Medium is the web's fountain pen." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35709680
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gRegorLove And it's currently out of ink. Sorry.
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petermolnar article is from today, maybe everyone is exporting their stuff while they still can
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+53) "/* Issues */ downtime, placeholder for image upload" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Medium (+179) "/* Exporting your data */ link to documentation" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:medium-down-2016-03-03.png]]""
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@krisshaffer This is why the #IndieWeb and projects like Domain of One's Own are so important. https://twitter.com/krisshaffer/status/705487626963390465 (twitter.com/_/status/705487811848347648)
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sknebel_ added link to export documentation. Don't have a WP account, can't try what the export actually looks like
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gregorlove.com edited /Medium (+168) "/* Downtime */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /Medium (+421) "/* Exporting your data */" (view diff)
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snarfed oh man i missed some fun stuff here over lunch
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KevinMarks obligatory Orkut joke: http://gawker.com/226285/orkut-the-joke
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Loqi [Nick Douglas] Orkut: The Joke
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gRegorLove I had no idea the creator's name was actually Orkut
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gRegorLove What is Orkut?
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Loqi Orkut was a silo from Google that existed from 2004 to 2014 (see site-deaths) and was very popular in Brazil and India https://indiewebcamp.com/orkut
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@indiewebcamp RT @withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech (twitter.com/_/status/705499080751865856)
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petermolnar.eu edited /Medium (+191) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Wrong cite link, petermolnar. Links to the same page
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petermolnar huh?
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petermolnar oh
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petermolnar.eu edited /Medium (+14) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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petermolnar fixed, thanks
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gRegorLove Wow, in the Medium export (from wiki) "they replace external links with a redirect to a /r/?url= link that obviously doesn't work locally or on a server without you adding code"
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sknebel which is strange, since their pages don't seem to have that
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sknebel (but I just checked in devtools, could be JS magic...)
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[shaners] Loqi. I’ve missed you.
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aaronpk totally forgot about tagboard!
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aaronpk i wanna borrow some css from them for indienews :)
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agaric.com people mauricio-dinarte edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+376) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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snarfed hey KartikPrabhu, looks like your site stopped advertising its webmention endpoint...?
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KartikPrabhu yeah saw yesterday will fix tonight
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snarfed ah np
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KartikPrabhu no idea how that happened
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KartikPrabhu i only discovered it due to Bridgy error messages from Twitter
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tantek.com edited /projects (+347) "move FrancisCMS to Get Inspired per jgarber note about moderate difficulty, cite IRC. Also noted what dobrado requires." (view diff)
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aaronpk status URLs are live on webmention.io now :)
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snarfed1 aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 88 karma
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aaronpk they are ephemeral, lasting 3 days
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aaronpk should be good enough for practical purposes tho
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snarfed wmio had status pages before, right? what's new?
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aaronpk nope never did!
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snarfed oh i was thinking p3k
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aaronpk yeah
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snarfed cool!
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aaronpk yeah i was sad to lose that with the switch, since p3k doesn't receive its own webmentions anymore