#indiewebcamp 2016-04-18

2016-04-18 UTC
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-ics-in-google-calendar.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /ICS (+830) "why, how, IndieWeb Examples, See Also" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-ics-on-ios.jpg]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /ICS (+68) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add screenshots" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks @velartrill #indiewebcamp on freenode (twitter.com/_/status/721890299786563584)
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@dym_cx #indieweb is an agglomeration of php-sites and python scripts which are used to X-post to/from twitter and facebook. (twitter.com/_/status/721899871901466625)
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kylewm ha, that makes indieweb sound pretty silly
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rrix yeah, its an agglomeration of php-sites and elisp-sites and python scripts
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rrix http://fontello.com/ this is quite neat
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rrix smooshes together various font icon sets and creates a single font file, lets you customize classes &c
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[dym_cx] kylewm: if you dont use hadoop to handle your BIGDATA cloud to make the next facebook – everything will sound silly.
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@dym_cx #indieweb is a world wide community of people who fight against facebook's monopoly on your private data (twitter.com/_/status/721921455001378817)
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aaronpk "Hadoop" is a pretty silly sounding word, just sayin'
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aaronpk i still dont' really understand how the whole webaction indieconfig thing works, but it's neat
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aaronpk making a list of all the things I want to work on on the trains/planes back home
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tantek did that on the first flight
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tantek so much so much
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aaronpk yup. was worried i didn't have anything at first but now the list is too long
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tantek did you get the indieconfig working with quill? or sign-up your own site with voxpelli's local storage?
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aaronpk i just used voxpelli's for now
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aaronpk i still can't figure out how it works well enough to build it in to quill
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tantek and it works on my permalinks? you're able to click the "like" or "reply" buttons and it opens in quill?
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aaronpk yep!
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tantek wow very cool!
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tantek what is Hadoop?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Hadoop" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JC
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tantek (shupe dupe)
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Recording-2016-04-18-09-05-01.mp4
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tantek what is BIGDATA?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "BIGDATA" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JD
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tantek what is X-post?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "X-post" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JE
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aaronpk wait what svg can embed javascript?? that seems not right
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aaronpk https://raw.githubusercontent.com/phuu/sparksvg/gh-pages/circle.svg
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tantek X-post is not an experimental HTTP header despite appearances otherwise, rather it is an abbreviation for cross-post, which, in the context of the indieweb, can most often be found as [[POSSE]], sometimes [[PESOS]], and rarely [[PESETAS]].
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loqi.me created /X-post (+266) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-18/line/1460963154041 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk is that... safe?
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tantek what is safe?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "safe" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JF
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aaronpk javascript in an svg?
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tantek is what safe?
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tantek it's part of the larger profile
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tantek there is a subset profile (I forget its name) that's used for things like CSS backgrounds and cursors
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tantek subset of SVG, no scripts etc.
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aaronpk i somehow missed that adactio's sparklines were rendered via javascript that's *inside* the svg
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aaronpk e.g. https://adactio.com/images/sparkline-min.svg?59,80,80,100,68,62,87,72,42,49,58,53,57,51,42,32,37,30,24,38,57,29,18,32,38,24,24,24,20,21,29,32,26,18,32,36,30,36,29,32,29,28,41,20,28,58,18,24,16,17,22,17,22,21,12,22,14,13,11,20,16,16,18,12,28,28,32,16,16,24,16,20,14,18,12,26,17,11,30,16,9,20,42,13,13,24,17,13,20,12,14,13,14,71,82,20,16,20,22,17,5
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tantek oh yeah, there was an audible gasp at that
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tantek check the video
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aaronpk so i can just copy that svg and have it on my own site?
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[dym_cx] something BIGDATA related: http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/Big_Data_Personal_Cloud
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[dym_cx] with a single link to expired website
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[dym_cx] ~yearly wiki-purge is kinda needed
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tantek dym_cx - looks like it was a 2012 session, check archive.org for the page
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aaronpk o.O https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-04-18-09-14-49.png
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aaronpk that was easy
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[dym_cx] tantek: the oldest version is https://web.archive.org/web/20140814213714/https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieweb-bigperson and it only has the default text
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tantek dym_cs what about the newest version?
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tantek s/dym_cs/dym_cx
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Loqi tantek meant to say: dym_cx what about the newest version?
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[dym_cx] empty
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tantek perhaps check /2012 to see who proposed it to see if you can find them and ask
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[dym_cx] looks like aaronpk was involved, but "#bigperson" is something never mentioned ever before or after
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tantek bigperson?!?
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@voxpelli @emanuelkarlsten SÃ¥ dumt! SÃ¥ om jag mikrobloggar pÃ¥ min egna sajt (typ #indieweb) är det inte fri surf, men pÃ¥ Twitter är det? Väldigt dumt (twitter.com/_/status/721963594989092868)
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[dym_cx] no names on who presented http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=2012/Schedule&diff=next&oldid=988
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voxpelli ^ a Swedish mobile operator is excepting "social media" from data limits
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voxpelli Of course only silos count as social media then
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[dym_cx] at least they optimize photos to not be a 10megapixel 5Mb raw JPGS
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aaronpk Check Mozilla etherpad for notes?
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[dym_cx] aaronpk: its 404
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[dym_cx] and https://web.archive.org/web/20140814213714/https://etherpad.mozilla.org/indieweb-bigperson is the default text
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@fredericmarx @mxstbr Ist Absicht :) Hab beim IndieWebCamp alles neu gemacht. Guck nach der Btconf noch mal drauf ;) (Trotzdem danke für den Hinweis) (twitter.com/_/status/721981565589463040)
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[kevinmarks] The generated SVG is a bit odd though
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GWG pfefferle, did you get a chance to look at the preprocess branch of Semantic Linkbacks?
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pfefferle GWG still no internet :(
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pfefferle GWG i am waiting for it since 6 mounth yet
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petermolnar whoa, which country is this?!
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aaronpk petermolnar ?
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aaronpk KevinMarks: what do you mean "odd"? It looks fine to me. I don't really know how to judge SVG XML tho. I like how the positions are all given in %
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pfefferle petermolnar germany
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pfefferle petermolnar the problem is: the "last mile" is always owned by the german telekom, so the telekom has to enable my telefone connection... but I am not a telekom customer, so I seem to be not that important...
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petermolnar the fun of Europe, I feel for you pfefferle
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pfefferle petermolnar even worse... they claimed that they tried to reach me for two times but no one seemed to be at home... at the first time I was at home from work and at the second time my wive...
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pfefferle petermolnar thanks ;)
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@openSUSE @adactio Was a pleasure. Thank you for making the #IndieWebCamp as excellent as it was 👏 (twitter.com/_/status/722023490405195776)
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@jkphl Btw @indiewebcamp Nuremberg was a blast! Big honor to have @t @aaronpk @adactio with us! Have a look yourself: https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskuXKb1u (twitter.com/_/status/722038812822650880)
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@jkphl Also BIG thx to all the attendees, you were awesome! Considering launching a Homebrew Website Club here. Nest stop: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf (twitter.com/_/status/722039223549837313)
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voxpelli pfefferle: can't you get 4G-based internet then? That's often the faster alternative in Sweden when there's no fiber
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pfefferle voxpelli I can, but I have have a contract with a provider and we moved homes... I still have to pay for my existing contract so I don't want to pay another one...
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voxpelli pfefferle: oh, complicated :P (Internet seems to be somewhat complicated in Germany? Relying mostly on my roaming now that I'm here)
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@egoexpress .@jkphl Woohoo, Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg (Metropolitan Region or whatever). Count me in! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/722043256599666690)
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bjoern internet in Germany is really complicated esp. if you know how things are in Finland, Sweden and the like
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bjoern the current target is to get 50 MBit to every home
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bjoern till 2018 iirc
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bjoern ridiculous
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voxpelli Oh, I can get 1GBit at home, I just haven't bothered
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bjoern uh, nice
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GWG pfefferle, I just am eager for your feedback. I do understand
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@jkphl .@egoexpress Good to know! So we are 3 already. I'll keep you posted! :) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/722052043532345344)
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@openSUSE See what #awesomeness you've missed at the #openSUSE sponsored #IndieWebCamp this weekend: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157664909577964/ https://twitter.com/openSUSE/status/722055628999380993/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/722055628999380993)
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GWG pfefferle: I guess I'll just keep working on the project in the interim.
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@rootjaeger RT @openSUSE See what #awesomeness you've missed at the #openSUSE sponsored #IndieWebCamp this weekend: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157664909577964/ https://twitter.com/openSUSE/status/722055628999380993/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/722060759673544704)
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@cho2MLHC RT @openSUSE See what #awesomeness you've missed at the #openSUSE sponsored #IndieWebCamp this weekend: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157664909577964/ https://twitter.com/openSUSE/status/722055628999380993/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/722082717400051712)
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voxpelli Speaking of homepage designs btw, I think https://sixcolors.com/ has a pretty interesting presentation of its stream
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@pauldenbreejen Webmention https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/722098438305943552)
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gRegorLove Good morning, indiewebcamp.
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miklb So that I'm clear, u-photo has to be explicitly **inside** h-card, right?
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[bjoern] guess so
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[bjoern] As I learned this weekend hierarchy is important when it comes to passing mf2
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gRegorLove Yeah, u-* will be parsed as a property of the parent h-*
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gRegorLove So if it's a person's photo, u-photo inside an h-card is correct.
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miklb they are both children of h-entry, but for parsing, I didn't realize u-photo had to be a child of h-card as well. Just checking. Thanks
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gRegorLove Yeah, otherwise the u-photo gets applied to the h-entry, which is more like a /photo post
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KevinMarks right, they mean different things
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miklb KevinMarks what mean different things?
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KevinMarks a u-photo in an h-card vs a u-photo in a h-entry
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miklb is there a different class that should be applied to an author image?
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miklb specifically in the case of an article and byline/attribution
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KevinMarks no, u-photo is right for the author, as long as it's inside a p-author h-card
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miklb got it. thanks again
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KevinMarks the slight oddness is when you don't have a u-featured or u-photo for the article and the author photo gets pulled instead - facebook does this a lot, but that's more their heuristic than a markup issue
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miklb that's basically what was happening for me with bridgy. Was grabbing the u-photo and adding it to tweet
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miklb but I didn't have the u-photo inside h-card
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kylewm unrelated to the issue miklb has, but I noticed Known sets twitter:image and og:image to my profile picture explicitly
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KevinMarks yeah, it's like the giant indiewebcamp logo that we get in slack
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KevinMarks interesting that https://sourcecode.cio.gov/ is cc0 and git-based
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kylewm aaronpk: did you just get a silopub "Status is over 140 characters" error?? That should not be possible.
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kylewm nope, it was diplix
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kylewm new test case!
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voxpelli kylewm: that's not good of Known :/ we had problems with eg. Blogger doing something similarly weird when we started consuming og:image at Bloglovin
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voxpelli that meant that we replaced perfectly good images from the RSS-feed with bad images from og:image as the og:image contained nonsense and we initially at least didn't build any logic around picking the "best" image out of many possible
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kylewm that totally makes sense
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snarfed thanks for the inferred user id change kylewm!
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snarfed feel free to pull granary and deploy if you want!
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kylewm snarfed: I'm going to hold off on that bc I don't trust my venv right now and have to run, but thank you!
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snarfed np! i can
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KevinMarks voxpelli: trusting invisible metadata is not a good idea in general
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KevinMarks re the SVG comment from earlier
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voxpelli KevinMarks: true, but turned out that og:image in general was much less invisible than image data in feeds as people usually see it on Facebook (after Facebook has done some magic invalidation of invalid images)
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voxpelli another problem is that if one wants to get a high resolution image then that has been somewhat hard so far – perhaps srcset or something could solve that
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kylewm It's tricky, I'm guessing Known does that because otherwise Facebook decides what image to show, and soemtimes it picks the largest avatar of the commenters or something dumb
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KevinMarks creating a sparkline using lots of lines is a bit redundant; polyline makes more sense
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voxpelli kylewm: if the image is smaller than the minimum specified by Facebook, which it likely is if it is an avatar, then Facebook will pick another one anyway
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kylewm though hopefully these days it wouldn't do that since the commenters avatars are resized to be pretty smal
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kylewm jinx
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KevinMarks is there a way to tell facebook not to show an image?
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kylewm good q
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voxpelli doesn't seems like it, they really should support that :/
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gRegorLove Author avatar makes sense to me as an og:image if there's nothing else, but a photo post should definitely use the photo.
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gRegorLove I don't think there's any OGP way to tell FB not to use an image
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voxpelli would be better to specify it as an author image though so that each client can make an informed decision
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voxpelli but I guess Facebook doesn't support that either :/
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KevinMarks <meta property="og:image:width" content="0"> ?
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gRegorLove Interesting. You can use rel=opengraph to point the FB crawler to a separate page for only metadata
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voxpelli oh, cool, had no idea
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gRegorLove https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters/optimizing
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gRegorLove Heh, simple solution from stackoverflow: specify a transparent image in the og:image
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gRegorLove Perhaps you could make a script that takes a URL, parses mf2, and spits out OGP for FB. Then link to that as the rel-opengraph for a page.
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snarfed service all the things :P
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voxpelli not sure if any service but Facebook supports that rel-opengraph though and many consume opengraph
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gRegorLove Nevermind, looks like FB still requiers og:title, type, image, and url metadata in the source URL, so that defeats the purpose
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gRegorLove s/requiers/requires/
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Loqi gRegorLove meant to say: Nevermind, looks like FB still requires og:title, type, image, and url metadata in the source URL, so that defeats the purpose
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miklb voxpelli best thing I could do was switch the the jekyll-indieweb theme on my site. Finding all the bugs :-)
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voxpelli miklb: dogfeeding is great :)
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miklb voxpelli did the person who used it this weekend have any difficulties understanding the config? Or was their biggest hurdle setting up Jekyll locally?
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voxpelli miklb: setting up Jekyll locally I think ;) Ruby can be interesting. Didn't chat with him after he had done it. Was busy trying to get SWAT0 working :P
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miklb what is SWATO
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "SWATO" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10JG
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miklb what is SWAT0
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Loqi SWAT0 is an abbreviation for The Social Web Acid Test level 0 and is a user-feature interoperability test for social web functionality defined in 2010 https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0
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gRegorLove SWATO is /SWAT0
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loqi.me created /SWATO (+18) "prompted by miklb https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-18/line/1461006658278 and dfn added by gRegorLove" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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@ChrisAldrich @dym_cx If you need more for your list: https://twitter.com/ChrisAldrich/lists/indieweb/members (twitter.com/_/status/722143119051923456)
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snarfed swat-oh
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gRegorLove Not to be confused with the Star Wars character
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kylewm That's where my brain went too! "Welcome to SWAT 0's shop"
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@Lynnie_Sher Episode 3 of Who Is Derrick Wyr is almost ready to post! #indieWebSeries #indieWeb #indieActress #happyActress #scAryIsFun (twitter.com/_/status/722151804197216256)
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KevinMarks hm. I made a sparkline generator that puts the actual points in a polyline: http://www.kevinmarks.com/sparkline.svg?59,80,80,100,68,62,87,72,42,49,58,53,57,51,42,32,37,30,24,38,57,29,18,32,38,24,24,24,20,21,29,32,26,18,32,36,30,36,29,32,29,28,41,20,28,58,18,24,16,17,22,17,22,21,12,22,14,13,11,20,16,16,18,12,28,28,32,16,16,24,16,20,14,18,12,26,17,11,30,16,9,20,42,13,13,24,17,13,20,12,14,13,14,71,82,20,16,20,22,17,5
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KevinMarks but the line width ends up odd becasue of it
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GWG Afternoon
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KevinMarks tweaking
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KevinMarks so, my sparkline uses the actual data points in the SVG polyline
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KevinMarks compare http://www.kevinmarks.com/sparkline.svg?59,80,80,100,68,62,87,72,42,49,58,53,57,51,42,32,37,30,24,38,57,29,18,32,38,24,24,24,20,21,29,32,26,18,32,36,30,36,29,32,29,28,41,20,28,58,18,24,16,17,22,17,22,21,12,22,14,13,11,20,16,16,18,12,28,28,32,16,16,24,16,20,14,18,12,26,17,11,30,16,9,20,42,13,13,24,17,13,20,12,14,13,14,71,82,20,16,20,22,17,5 with https://adactio.com/images/sparkline-min.svg?59,80,80,100,68,62,87,72,42
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GWG voxpelli, what is dogfeeding?
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voxpelli GWG: my english crashing
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voxpelli what is dogfooding?
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Loqi dogfood in the context of the indieweb, refers to the software practice of "eating your own dog food" but in particular with using your own creations on your own personal site that you depend on, day to day https://indiewebcamp.com/dogfooding
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voxpelli ^ guess I turned the term into something else :)
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KevinMarks dogfeeding is what I do at night before i take my dogs out for a walk
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sknebel maybe it is dogfeeding if you make others eat their own dogfood?
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sknebel or convince them to do so
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KevinMarks as I'm feeding my dogs raw green tripe at the moment, I'm definitely not eating that
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KevinMarks the implicit assumption that people and dogs should eat the same thing is flawed
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snarfed "leaky metaphors"
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KevinMarks it's like "low hanging fruit"
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KevinMarks as someone with fruit trees, you want to start with the highest fruit on the tree, as it ripens first
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KevinMarks hm, having spent a while faffing around with making sparklines I suppose I should write a post about them
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KevinMarks explaining why
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@egoexpress All good things do come in threes. Managed to connect #Instagram and #Bridgy without any errors now! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/722186767617564673)
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miklb that's next on my to-do list.
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@InabaKazsansan RT @openSUSE See what #awesomeness you've missed at the #openSUSE sponsored #IndieWebCamp this weekend: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157664909577964/ https://twitter.com/openSUSE/status/722055628999380993/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/722186949964902401)
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KevinMarks hm, adactio didn't write a post about his sparklines, so I can't webmention him about them
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@myfreeweb @sigfig webmention is a protocol though (twitter.com/_/status/722190478293233664)
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@sigfig @myfreeweb is webmention new? im pretty sure ive only ever seen it on your site (twitter.com/_/status/722191074173652992)
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@myfreeweb @sigfig not exactly new, but indieweb happens slowly, we're not like startup bros who crush it in a couple nights :D (twitter.com/_/status/722191786152763392)
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gRegorLove If we were startup bros, pretty sure webmention would have already been sold/pivoted/trashed or something by now. ^
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