#indiewebcamp 2016-05-11

2016-05-11 UTC
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GWG Evening
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@sriperinkulam Oh, so hilariously nuclear! http://srikanthperinkulam.com/indieweb/oh-hilariously-nuclear (twitter.com/_/status/730209513064648706)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /2016/LA/Guest_List (+252) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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GWG Slow night
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[kevinmarks] True. Maybe people are recovering from the weekend
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Zegnat !tell aaronpk I was trying to login on the wiki just now and got “An unhandled lowlevel error occured. The application logs may have details.” on both Twitter and GitHub. Could you check the logs around this timestamp
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek yeah
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tantek plus some of us have CSS WG meetings all week as well
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Zegnat Looks like IndieAuth.com does support u-tel. Good to have an answer to my question during IWC.
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Zegnat Although… it then seems to hang on “Sending verification code…”. I’ll just do my demo write-up offlin and get it on the wiki as soon as I can get in again
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@jkphl @webrocker Looks awesome, mate! :) #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/730290421960744960)
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@sl007 @jkphl @indiewebcamp @btconf Same back and on top a special thanks for awesome photos ! (twitter.com/_/status/730363016345194496)
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aaronparecki.com edited /notification (+90) "Added an interesting article about designing notifications" (view diff)
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aaronpk [KevinMarks] I have an SVG challenge for you
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Loqi aaronpk: Zegnat left you a message 6 hours, 10 minutes ago: I was trying to login on the wiki just now and got “An unhandled lowlevel error occured. The application logs may have details.” on both Twitter and GitHub. Could you check the logs around this timestamp http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-10/line/1462946824886
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aaronpk Zegnat: what URL were you on when you got that error? indiewebcamp.com or indieauth.com?
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aaronpk oh that looks like a ruby error, so probably indieauth.com
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aaronpk now the question is which indieauth.com server did that hit
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aaronpk Zegnat: nothing on the main indieauth.com server, and my other one wasn't logging right, so let me know if you see that error again
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aaronpk !tell KevinMarks can you figure out how to make this work with arbitrary text? http://svgur.com/s/5i I want the first and last names to be right aligned with each other, but to start where the first name starts in this example. I want the URL to start at its current start position, and for the font size to shrink if it will be too long to fit. The city and year should be right aligned as well.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cweiske is someone posseing stackoverflow answers and questions?
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@adactioLinks IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf | Flickr - Photo Sharing! https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157667827003412 (twitter.com/_/status/730385095413084160)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Planning (+792) (view diff)
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GWG Morning
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aaronpk good morning
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GWG I'm potentially excited. Pfefferle got Internet.
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GWG I'm sure he's more thrilled than I am about that, but I've been eager for feedback on all those commits I sent him for webmentions.
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@webrocker last four days' pastime, symbolic picture #btconf #indiewebcamp #music https://twitter.com/webrocker/status/730388615734435840/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/730388615734435840)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Guest_List (+1351) "/* RSVPs */ add indie RSVPs from 2016.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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@Inkwater_Masha DIY: How to Self-Publish an #Audiobook http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/authors/pw-select/article/65937-diy-self-publishing-audiobooks.html?platform=hootsuite #selfpub #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/730392107299508224)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Guest_List (-53) "updated counts" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Guest_List (-204) "/* Official Guest List */ update instructions" (view diff)
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GWG I'm cautiously excited about the Summit.
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@saemple Thx @tollwerk for these impressions of #indiewebcamp, #sipgate, #leanDUS & #btconf! https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157667827003412 https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/sets/72157665790079663 (twitter.com/_/status/730394151427166208)
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aaronpk awesome writeup adactio! https://adactio.com/journal/10636
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Indie Web Camp Düsseldorf took place last weekend and it was—no surprise—really excellent.
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aaronpk next we gotta get you syndicating those to indienews! :-)
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aaronpk (hint: it's just sending a webmention)
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adactio aaronpk: hmmm ...I think that could be arranged.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 3/29 at 2:27pm: any thoughts about an IWC Brighton this year? Perhaps sometime in 2016-09-24…26 date range? a few of us likely to be in Portugal for W3C TPAC week ending 2016-09-23. cc: aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-29/line/1459286859030
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 4/3 at 4:56pm: is Brighton HWC on this week? assuming not due to AEA Seattle. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-04-06-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-03/line/1459727759868
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 4/6 at 10:58am: did you take a photo at Homebrew Website Club 2016-03-23? Can you add it to: https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-23-homebrew-website-club#Photos ? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-06/line/1459965493893
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 4/21 at 6:05pm: Can you confirm HWC Brighton 2016-05-04? Update location? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-21/line/1461287107509
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 1 week, 1 day ago: is HWC Brighton on this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-04-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-02/line/1462213258498
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aaronpk http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/submit
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Planning (+40) "/* To Do */" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow big instagram changes https://medium.com/@ianspalter/designing-a-new-look-for-instagram-inspired-by-the-community-84530eb355e3#.pbqfd2m17
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aaronpk oh awesome, using a media endpoint for quill means i can auto-save this draft of a note without worrying about saving the actual photo data in the browser
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aaronpk all i have to do is save the URL
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petermolnar !tell GWG I'm checking your changes to the webmention plugin; so far, nice work; I miss only one thing: debug logs :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG petermolnar, you mean that write to file thing?
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GWG That was in the old version or something else
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petermolnar to be honest, I dislike the WP approach of self-maintained logs; instead I use plain PHP error_log, but the right way would probably be to use the WP_Error class for this somehow
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petermolnar but I'm not certain, how
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GWG petermolnar, what do you want to log? It does send messages about outgoing webmentions if WP_DEBUG is set to the error log.
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petermolnar that is a notice level log; I'm missing the optional info, debug, etc. levels, where basically I see messages from the steps, eg. why and where in the code was a mention rejected, for example
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GWG You want to log incoming?
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petermolnar optionally, yes
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hongpong with some effort i tracked down this 404 logger, maybe you could do similar on webmentions https://wordpress.org/plugins/404-error-logger/
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hongpong i feel like any drupal 8 webmentions should target entities, not nodes as such
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GWG WordPress doesn't really do logging at that level unless the plugin does it.
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petermolnar I know
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petermolnar and it's a shame
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[shaners] This might could be a way to get Firefox to adopt indieweby features faster.
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[shaners] https://testpilot.firefox.com/
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GWG But I will see about making it easier to add that.
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petermolnar this is what I use in my plugins: https://github.com/petermolnar/wp-webmention-again/blob/master/wp-webmention-again.php#L633
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GWG I was looking at that.
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petermolnar (and I just realized we all have our issues; some with indention, some with string concatenation :) )
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GWG Likely I would go for passing failures to a function that triggers and action before exiting
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petermolnar (using 3 different concat methods in the same function is ugly, shame on me)
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petermolnar GWG in a perfect world, this would be handled with exceptions, where the exception handler is also the optional debug logger
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GWG It isn't a perfect world
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GWG The best I can offer is a better way to optionally add what you want
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petermolnar this is just an idea
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petermolnar kind of a future-proofing to help debugging
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petermolnar because debugging webmentions is tricky
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petermolnar so it's a wish, not a want :)
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GWG petermolnar, I still am trying to design so it could be extended that way.
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petermolnar this line is redundant: https://github.com/dshanske/wordpress-webmention/blob/spec/class-webmention-receiver.php#L116
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petermolnar url_to_postid uses schema-less search
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petermolnar see https://core.trac.wordpress.org/browser/tags/4.5.2/src/wp-includes/rewrite.php#L462
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GWG Can you comment on the pull with that? That line predates me. It was in the original
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petermolnar sure
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GWG I got rid of a lot of redundant stuff
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GWG Like the absolute URL function. WordPress has one.
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petermolnar I wasn't aware of that, just spotted it in your code
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GWG If there are more chances, I'd like to add them.
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GWG But URL_to_postid does not use schemaless search per se
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GWG It uses whatever schema the site is using
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GWG Someone could conceivably send an HTTP link to an HTTPS site
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petermolnar hm
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@WPExtremadura Trackbacks, pingbacks y webmentions via @wprincipiante http://wprincipiante.es/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/WPExtremadura/status/730428089054965760/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/730428089054965760)
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petermolnar you're right
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petermolnar I remembered something else
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petermolnar sorry
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GWG So, better to check for HTTPS if enabled, and then check for HTTP
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GWG Oh?
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petermolnar nah, it's fine, I don't think the order matters
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kylewm !tell miklb I use this little python script to get micropub access tokens https://gist.github.com/kylewm/5484831548b32d8bce2b2bb20be402f9 ... the only trick is the redirect to http://kylewm.github.io/oob/, which lets you copy/paste the indieauth code
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Jeena !tell tantek and aaronpk After you got me to remove my hidden h1 with the short title from my notes implementations try to come up with a autogenerated from name and it looks more than shitty: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/10/31/video
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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tantek Zegnat: I'm not sure if the SMS sending is still working. I think aaronpk may have turned that off (but maybe forgot to turn off that part of the UI?)
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Loqi tantek: Jeena left you a message 18 minutes ago: and aaronpk After you got me to remove my hidden h1 with the short title from my notes implementations try to come up with a autogenerated from name and it looks more than shitty: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/10/31/video http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-11/line/1462983632370
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aaronpk hmm, I didn't intentionally turn it off, but it's possible the twilio account is empty and didn't auto-renew
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aaronpk actually... i have no idea if it can send to non-US numbers
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tantek aaronpk: likely for a fee ;)
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tantek !tell Jeena there were two parts to the solution! removing the hidden h1 was only part 1. part 2: put p-name on the same element as e-content!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [indieweb] "raamdev closed issue raamdev/independent-publisher#201" by raamdev https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher/issues/201
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miklb yow
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Loqi miklb: kylewm left you a message 42 minutes ago: I use this little python script to get micropub access tokens https://gist.github.com/kylewm/5484831548b32d8bce2b2bb20be402f9 ... the only trick is the redirect to http://kylewm.github.io/oob/, which lets you copy/paste the indieauth code http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-11/line/1462983088750
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miklb kylewm nice! bonus points it is python, can use it directly in iOS with Editorial/Pythonista
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miklb kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 330 karma
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adactio San Franciscan Indieweb-ers; this looks like the kind of event you should go to: http://www.decentralizedweb.net/
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tantek lol
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Loqi [indieweb] "raamdev commented on issue raamdev/independent-publisher#197" by raamdev https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher/issues/197#issuecomment-218520680
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tantek adactio, how do you suggest positively engaging with that event? I'm having trouble stomaching the $75 fee for an academic conference
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adactio tantek: I suggest going along and joining in without pre-judging it.
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tantek (regardless, we did add it to the /Events page a few weeks ago
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tantek )
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tantek adactio, after 4 days of IW Summit and SWWG f2f in Portland, will likely be too exhausted to sensibly participate in two more days
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tantek that being said, a bunch of us have reached out and invited their organizers to IW Summit and SWWG f2f - haven't heard anything back
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tantek with one positive exception: https://twitter.com/jeffubois/status/729418802664984576
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@jeffubois This looks excellent http://2016.indieweb.org/ @indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/729418802664984576)
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[shaners] It’s not looking good for us selling enough shirts in time. Still need to sell 22 in 4 days.
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[shaners] https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp
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aaronpk i sent an email out to everyone who registered on ti.to with the link
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[shaners] If you know anyone who’d be interested but maybe hasn’t see them, please blast them
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aaronpk anyone up for working on content for a microformats or webmention cheat sheet? http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Planning#Graphics_.2F_Design
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@azumbrunnen_ @LukasRosenstock thanks! I didnt know. @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/730447859787673601)
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tantek aaronpk it's about time we made an updated cheatsheet! you've seen the previous version right?
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aaronpk yep!
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aaronpk found a bunch of them
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tantek well there's a canonical one http://microformats.org/wiki/cheat-sheet
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Loqi cheat-sheet
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tantek the folding one was particularly nice
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aaronpk i think you gave me the folding one when we met
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tantek wow
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tantek in 2009?
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aaronpk yep
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tantek reference: https://indiewebcamp.com/Google#Aaron_and_Tantek_met_via_Google_Search
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Zegnat aaronpk, tantek, I never received an SMS verification code, so I am guessing that does not work anymore.
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Zegnat I’ll see if I can login any other way after dinner
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aaronpk the GPG one should still work, that one is always fun
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Zegnat Hmm, I do not have an active GPG key anymore, I think. Should probably add one.
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veganstraightedge.com edited /2016/Planning (+109) "/* Cheat Sheets: raise hand */" (view diff)
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veganstraightedge.com edited /2016/Planning (+66) "/* Cheat Sheets */" (view diff)
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tantek btw - anyone making cheat sheets from the specs, please give me a heads-up before you enshrine anything in print from the microformats specs - it's likely that most of the specs need some review to upgrade many of the properties from ideas to proposed, or proposed to draft, etc.
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tantek aaronpk, shaners ^^^
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[shaners] Oh yeah! I remember these old mf cheatsheets. I definitely printed those out and hung them on the wall next to my desk in Seattle.
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@chrisbergr Has anybody played with the Idea of #indieweb polls (behavior like rsvp) before? Are there examples? // cc @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/730456738365898753)
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[benatwork] Funny, we were talking about something similar the other day
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aaronpk that's kind of where the basis of micropub came from actually
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aaronpk i was thinking about how to do polls, and realized i could just make an HTML form to describe the poll, instead of coming up with some mf2 markup for it
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aaronpk but i didn't want to submit the form to my site, cause that wouldn't be very indieweb. i wanted the form to be submitted to the person's site who is submitting it
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tantek GWG: are you here? Can you help with starting / cloning the IWC NYC2 wiki pages? https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC2
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+473) "move some done to past, note IWC NYC2 date/venue set! need help wikifying, bump Brighton to near the top, set a proposed date for Brighton" (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat: ^^^
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+11) "drop "," from heading, link 2016 UK page" (view diff)
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tantek Zegnat: in particular, add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Brighton_UK
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Zegnat Alright, guess I’ll add my name, if I can get myself logged in ;)
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tantek voxpelli: you too ^^^
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tantek :)
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Zegnat Well, login went through, so whatever it was, IndieAuth works again (aaronpk)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Planning (+79) "/* Brighton UK */" (view diff)
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Zegnat AFAIK right now, the whole of September would work for me. It is more a money than time issue on my end. Guess I should not even add a date or vote then?
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voxpelli looks like I'm already added to the Brighton one, yay!
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Loqi yay!
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[shaners] aaronpk: That’s a complicated badge design request. At least, complicated to do programmatically.
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aaronpk the text alignment?
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aaronpk i feel like kevinmarks would know some clever tricks with matrix transforms and svg text align properties
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[shaners] yes. and resizing
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[shaners] Maybe he does.
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aaronpk i could do it all in PHP as a raster image...
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aaronpk so, take that as a challenge :P
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aaronpk if nobody comes up with an SVG solution, i'm writing this in PHP
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[shaners] I’m exploring it in Illustrator / SVG / ruby
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[shaners] How many people are expected for Indieweb Summit?
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aaronpk Max of 5
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aaronpk er
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aaronpk 50
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aaronpk lol
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[shaners] HA!
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[shaners] Is the idea to make this a reusable badge dingus for all IWCs?
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aaronpk yeah
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[shaners] In that case, I’d suggest making the design simpler.
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[shaners] Angled text and some right, some left aligned text gets difficult.
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[shaners] Especially, with variable length things
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sknebel long first names look like they might be difficult
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sknebel in that design
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aaronpk shrink the name to fit too?
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[shaners] Who’s got the longest first name that we can think on indieweb land?
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aaronpk the angle only matters a little, since you can just rotate everything after doing the alignment
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aaronpk i'm like 90% sure i can make this happen as a bitmap and also as a PDF generated from Ruby. I was just hoping someone would know more about SVG internals to make it work with SVG since that's a way simpler and more maintainable process in the end.
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@azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730467849983119360)
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@ScuderiChanel RT @azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730467854911344640)
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@BArmintor RT @azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730468150236549120)
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tantek ^^^ js;dr :P
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@BArmintor RT @cgknowles #IIIF Web Mentions blogpost http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730468175599521793)
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aaronpk blog post version: http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/
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tantek holy f*** <section data-markdown>
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tantek are you kidding me!?
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aaronpk it's pretty neat! looks like a fully functional version of a webmention system where the source documents are JSON
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tantek remind me to never start a blog post with "we want to describe a new possibility"
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tantek a system? more like a library
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aaronpk literally a library lol
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aaronpk like, with books
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aaronpk i'm pretty impressed with this frankly
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@cgknowles #IIIF Web Mentions blogpost http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730467612010926081)
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@Chenshaw RT @cgknowles #IIIF Web Mentions blogpost http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730469081233686529)
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aaronpk it looks like he got everything working, including modifying my ruby webmention client to work with the JSON documents
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@danbri RT @azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730469105761947649)
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@anarchivist MT @azaroth42: #WebMentions for notification of #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/730469131355619328)
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tantek definitely seems like it has potential
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tantek I'm curious if any of the RT/MTs above are folks that would deploy and try it out
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tantek or if it's mostly cheering
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tantek What I find fascinating about this paper is how they've basically taken the academic approach to annotations, and BUILT a solution with Webmention
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tantek with AFAIK, zero use of W3C Annotations
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aaronpk also the library world is no laughing matter. there's TONS of work being done there.
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tantek unless I'm confused and the JSON they use is actually W3C Annotations JSON
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tantek (which it might be?)
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tantek I can never keep all the random JSON(LD) formats in mind
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tantek also I can't tell the difference between a one-off custon JSON format and anything (semi)standard
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tantek aaronpk: nice validation of Webmention itself as a re-usable building block
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tantek and validation of the minimal modular building block approach
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aaronpk indeed!
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tantek oh! this IIIF stuff is the stuff that one guy that came to IWC NYC was working on! And working to make webmentions work with!
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tantek what is IIIF
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IIIF" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10LD
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aaronpk oh really?
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aaronpk wow
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tantek IIIF is the International Image Interoperability Framework, http://iiif.io/ and was discussed at IndieWebCamp NYC 2016.
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loqi.me created /IIIF (+146) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-11/line/1462992648976 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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@BArmintor Getting that WebMention is the path for client communication back to #IIIF servers that seems to be one of the background questions here (twitter.com/_/status/730470537512816644)
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tantek aaronpk: here you go https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/NYC/Webmentions (search for IIIF)
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tantek anarchivist: hey is this the result of all your work at IWC NYC and after?
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anarchivist tantek: not mine, but jeffrey witt and rafael schwemmer, as mentioned in the blog posts
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tantek but presumably from your ideas and efforts?
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tantek pretty amazing stuff
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anarchivist more the otherway around - i foundout about webmention and IWC from them
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tantek oh wow!
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anarchivist (they're giving a presentation right now at the IIIF event in NYC)
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tantek anarchivist: BTW save the dates if you can make it - IWC NYC2 August 27-28!
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anarchivist also found out about webmention from rob sanderson through that community as well
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tantek got it
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tantek definitely pass along that "save the dates" for IndieWebCamp NYC2 to the rest of the folks there too!
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anarchivist thx! will try - getting married earlier in the month and not sure about our honeymoon plans
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tantek congratulations!!
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Zegnat congrats anarchivist
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC2 (+133) "interested from planning, see also" (view diff)
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tantek voxpelli, Zegnat if 2016-09-25..26 is good for you for Brighton, can you add your name and +1 to that list (right now I'm the only one there :) https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Brighton_UK
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tantek and if there are other (weekend) dates you can make, please feel free to add them to the "Possible dates:" subsection
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@mx4muse demo on use of #webmentions for notification of new #IIIF resources, enabling further sharing of scholarship @textandbytes @jeffreycwitt (twitter.com/_/status/730472570999455744)
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jimpick.com edited /2016/Guest_List (+317) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
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voxpelli tantek: 2016-09-25..26 is a sunday and a monday, is that correct?
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tantek wat
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tantek oops
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@Chenshaw More info on that webmention work #IIIF https://twitter.com/Chenshaw/status/730472953771626496/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/730472953771626496)
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tantek fixing
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+36) "/* Brighton UK */ fix dates, link to TPAC 2016" (view diff)
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tantek thanks voxpelli
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kodfabrik.se edited /Planning (+19) "/* Brighton UK */ Add myself to the September date" (view diff)
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aaronpk i'm gonna need to figure out how i want to handle bilingual streams of posts soon too... https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/11/19/react
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Heute Abend versuch ich React zu lernen, aber der Workshop ist auf Deutsch. Es ist... schwer.
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tantek !tell tbrb are you planning on doing another IWC Edinburgh this year in July? (like last year's? https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh )
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat tantek: where do I got if every weekend is fine with me? Wouldn't not-voting for a date be more logical?
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tantek schwer oder sehr schwer?
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@jean_bauer RT @Chenshaw More info on that webmention work #IIIF https://twitter.com/Chenshaw/status/730472953771626496/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/730473374120562689)
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tantek Zegnat, you can add all the weekends :)
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@jean_bauer RT @mx4muse demo on use of #webmentions for notification of new #IIIF resources, enabling further sharing of scholarship @textandbytes @jeffreycwitt (twitter.com/_/status/730473441497886720)
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aaronpk Zegnat: it's good to see there's more support in general!
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tantek don't worry, some of us will -1 a bunch because of conflicts
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Zegnat wants ALL the weekends
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Zegnat I was just extremely impressed by IWC Düsseldorf, and still riding that high
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voxpelli Zegnat: An IndieWebMonth it is! ;)
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Zegnat You could throw one in Malmö, voxpelli. At least I have a place to stay in that case ;)
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voxpelli All dates in September currently works for me as well, but voting +1 on the suggested one to show that it works, if someone wants to contest it then I'll add another vote there :)
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aaronpk I want to go back to Malmö!
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voxpelli We really should do one in Malmö, it would have been perfect to do during The Conference, but it's in august so a bit too soon to get that organized
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aaronpk let's at least try for next august then!
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Zegnat Malmö is my favourite city in Sweden by a long shot
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aaronpk that'll give me 14 months to study swedish...
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tantek would be great to have an IWC Malmö!
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voxpelli I'll keep it at the back of my head and try to be on the lookout for a good time to do it if some other time arises :) Should chat with ThatEmil about it
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tantek voxpelli: can you add Malmö to https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Potential_Cities ?
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voxpelli tantek: sure
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tantek that way we can at least track interest
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tantek see if you can get some co-organizers :)
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Zegnat 14 months should work, aaronpk, I think I had a good understanding of the language by that time.
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aaronpk for real?
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Zegnat You might also want to ping Jeena
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Zegnat Yes, but do note, I was in Sweden 24/7
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tantek yes it is not too soon to start planning for 2017!
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Zegnat But a basic understanding would probably be able in 14 months if you wanted to. Especially if you are somewhat used to Northern European languages. German helps.
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jimpick.com edited /2016/Guest_List (+109) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
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aaronpk jimpick++
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Loqi jimpick has 1 karma
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kodfabrik.se edited /Planning (+311) "/* Potential Cities */ Adding Malmö" (view diff)
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voxpelli Malmö is fairly international, so I you'll get around just fine with English as well: http://www.littlebigmalmo.com/ ;)
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Zegnat Malmö is very Danish-Dutch in culture, and international, a lot to like!
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Jeena voxpelli I'm up for a IWC in Malmoe!
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Loqi Jeena: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 39 minutes ago: there were two parts to the solution! removing the hidden h1 was only part 1. part 2: put p-name on the same element as e-content! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-11/line/1462984830393
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Jeena and tantek thanks for the p-name hint, It seems I need to imlplement my own mf2 parster to be able to fully understand the intentions of the design ^^
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Planning (+105) "/* Potential Cities */" (view diff)
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voxpelli Jeena: :D
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aaronpk implement? no, just read your own posts in an mf2 reader :)
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Jeena that is not enough, it seems mostly random how it interprets my posts to me
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aaronpk there are only a couple "weird" rules
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aaronpk mostly it's just the implied "name" that causes confusion like that
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aaronpk when in doubt, always mark "p-name" explicitly and then you won't really see any weirdness
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Jeena I guess so, that is my biggest point of confusion at least
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Jeena ok that sounds realsonable
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aaronpk IMO the implied name rule is a little too magic, but here we are
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aaronpk i think there are some open issues to help with that too, but that'll take a while to settle out
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Jeena woodwind shows some weird stuff sometimes too like https://jeena.net/s/latest.png
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Planning (+142) "/* Brighton UK */ wanting ALL the weekends" (view diff)
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Jeena for that like https://kylewm.com/2016/05/like-of-ryan-barrett-aaron-parecki
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Loqi [Kyle Mahan] Liked
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[kevinmarks] I think implied name is not quite magic enough, in that it puts in spurious whitespace
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Loqi [kevinmarks]: aaronpk left you a message 6 hours, 32 minutes ago: can you figure out how to make this work with arbitrary text? http://svgur.com/s/5i I want the first and last names to be right aligned with each other, but to start where the first name starts in this example. I want the URL to start at its current start position, and for the font size to shrink if it will be too long to fit. The city and year should be right aligned as well. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-11/line/1462971202539
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@benwbrum RT @azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730479977079013378)
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Jeena btw aaronpk what's up with the mega white space between the paragraphs in my comment on https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/10/31/video? the white-space: pre-line; does it, I'm not sure why you added it there.
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] After reading this, I'm seriously considering publishing my conference videos on Amazon's new Video Direct! http://techcrunch.com/2016/05/10/amazon-takes-on-youtube-with-launch-of-amazon-video-direct/...
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aaronpk it's there because some people publish posts with newlines, and if it's not there then it gets collapsed onto the same line because html
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aaronpk i'm not actually sure the best solution to that. i could remove padding on <p> tags in comments, but then if someone did <p>a</p><p>b</p> i think it would show up wrong
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Jeena yeah
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aaronpk this is probably worth documenting in a brainstorming or issues section on /comments-presentation
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Jeena but how does it look on their own website without <p> it is in one line there too, isn't it?
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aaronpk it would most likely have one line space between the paragraphs
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Jeena because they do some magic with CSS?
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aaronpk no, that's just default
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Zegnat If you replace \r?\n with <br> Would that not solve things?
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Zegnat then you can target br with css incase you get P-BR-P
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Zegnat P + BR { display: none; }
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Jeena hm? I don't get it how is your html different to theirs?
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aaronpk i wonder if i could also just strip <p> tags
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aaronpk i'm already heavily modifying the HTML that's allowed in comments to only allow a few specific elements
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: the HTML is not different. I publish notes in plain text which has next lines an use white-space: pre-wrap to display them. If aaronpk did not use pre-line my para breaks won't show
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aaronpk yes my notes are published that way as well, tantek's too i think
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Jeena wow but isn't that just wrong?
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KartikPrabhu no why is it "wrong"?
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Jeena why wouldn't you want to mark up a paragraph as a paragraph?
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aaronpk what's wrong with plain text?
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Jeena how does it look like in browsers which don't do CSS?
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KartikPrabhu it looks like a stream of plain text which is fine
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Jeena what do screen readers do without paragraphs?
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aaronpk if you look at my notes that use newlines, i don't use a single newline as a paragraph marker
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aaronpk i use double newline as a paragraph marker
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aaronpk which looks like you'd expect if you just write text in a text file
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aaronpk i don't see anything wrong with doing that on a web page
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Jeena do you have an example?
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/04/12/7/travel
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] *whew* Made it to the hotel at 6pm local time! In total, 26 hours door to door. From my house: bus to downtown, train to Seattle, cab to airport, plane to Reykjavik, plane to Frankfurt, shuttle to train station, train to Nürnberg, walk to hotel.
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aaronpk the point is I wrote that text you see verbatim. when authoring it, i didn't have to think about html or anything, it just worked
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kylewm fwiw, tantek switched to using <br>'s for bridgy publish
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KartikPrabhu i use single lines
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aaronpk here's an example of a post with single newlines https://aaronparecki.com/2016/03/01/8/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub!
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Jeena as I expected https://jeena.net/s/latest.png
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aaronpk i also use single newlines with * for plaintext list formatting https://aaronparecki.com/2016/01/09/23/cocktail
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Cocktail experiment:
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kylewm my argument was p-content could use newlines, whereas e-content should be formatted with html
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kylewm because no one consuming your e-content knows that your CSS says whitespace: pre or whatever
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aaronpk that's fair
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Jeena exactly
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aaronpk (still won't help the lynx example tho)
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Jeena same with https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/08/14/livestreaming it looked so weird in woodwind
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Notes from #livestreaming IndieWebCamp Germany:
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KartikPrabhu when parsing p-content for comment display, do you then autolink the links too ?
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aaronpk seems like that would make sense
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KartikPrabhu it has been so long since I worked on my site code that I don't remember what I do!
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aaronpk hm yes i should definitely switch to p-content for my text notes. i don't have a mechanism to author HTML in those anyway, so the intent is to publish a plaintext version of the note
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@textandbytes RT @Chenshaw More info on that webmention work #IIIF https://twitter.com/Chenshaw/status/730472953771626496/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/730485414188990464)
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aaronpk the only HTML is autolinked URLs, which is easy enough for a consumer of plaintext to do
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Jeena the list from the second link is obviously even worse ^^ https://jeena.net/s/latest.png but why not just parse it as markdown which would make it a nice HTML list readable by everyone?
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aaronpk that's a slippery slope
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Jeena the drawbacks seem much smaller to me than what you have now
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aaronpk one of the changes I made in the site rebuild was to make the "text/plain" content type output literally what I type
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@mx4muse .@azaroth on #IIIF functional specifications - #WebStandards: Linked Open Data, JSOn-LD, Linked Data, Open Annotation, Webmentions... (twitter.com/_/status/730485853613608960)
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KevinMarks looking at the SVG thing, you could probably do it with generic layout (it's basically a CSS layout but rotated)
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aaronpk once you go down the path of implementing text transforms, it is not clear where to stop
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Jeena sure you can still do that?
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KevinMarks or you could do it in code for each badge, measuring the text.
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KevinMarks I did the text-stretching thing with hovercards, but shaners will not approve
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aaronpk I do have a text/markdown content type for my storage, which runs the post through a markdown parser to output HTML
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aaronpk but plaintext notes should remain plaintext notes
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@jeffreycwitt @benwbrum are you in New York? we should chat about how FTP could use webmentions to share transcriptions (twitter.com/_/status/730486533606789120)
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aaronpk webmention + ftp = https://media.giphy.com/media/TlK63EWmJDBa5MjIr6g/giphy.gif
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Jeena I'm just saying that HTML is very nice to all people, independently of their abilities/disabilities, and if you serve it as text/html then it should be HTML not plain/text
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aaronpk i guess that's what <pre> is for
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Jeena yes
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aaronpk wonder if i can style a <pre> tag to make it look like normal html text
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Jeena you should be
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Zegnat aaronpk, no reason you can’t. It takes all expected font styles, that I know for sure.
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk so... <pre class="p-content"> might be the recommended solution then?
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Jeena sounds good to me
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Jeena even though it will give us horizontal scrollbars in woodwind
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KevinMarks so http://svgur.com/s/5i didn't specify a font - I'm seeing different things on phone and desktop
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Zegnat Would be interesting to see if you can change white-space for PRE. But I guess even that would be possible.
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Jeena and in all comments
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aaronpk i think i will render comments as html
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aaronpk because i am sanitizing the HTML if it's there, and then can autolink URLs if the comment was plaintext
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Zegnat KevinMarks, if you have a second, could you update the faulty Twitter link for my name on http://www.kevinmarks.com/indiewebcampdusseldorfdemos2016.html ?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf Demos 2016-05-08
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aaronpk KevinMarks: there's a font definition in there, you just may not have the font on your system
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Jeena for convinience you could still do what Zegnat said about \r\n to <br> and hide them with CSS or what it was
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Zegnat I am sorry I wasn’t live-scribing my own demo ;) I am Martijn van der Ven, http://vanderven.se/martijn/, or @martijnvdven on Twitter
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Loqi Martijn van der Ven
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Zegnat Jeena, that will probably still have some edgecases that I am missing. E.g. what to do with BR BR sequences and so on. That is why displaying plaintext as plaintext (PRE) is probably the only real solution.
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KevinMarks want to edit it at https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/blob/master/web/indiewebcampdusseldorfdemos2016.html
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Zegnat KevinMarks, sure, I will make a pull request! Did not realise that was an option
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snarfed i know there's been some angst about http://www.decentralizedweb.net/ here, but i might consider going. i can represent indieweb, give a lightning talk, etc if we want
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KevinMarks https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/blob/master/web/indiewebcampdusseldorfdemos2016.html#L86
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snarfed plus the second day is free, which avoids the $75 complaint. http://www.decentralizedweb.net/schedule/
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Jeena KevinMarks what's up with the empty <p> before </blockquote>? https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/blob/master/web/indiewebcampdusseldorfdemos2016.html#L91
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KevinMarks hm, probably noterlive generation bug
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snarfed if anyone else is interested in going to the decentralized web thing, june 8-9 in SF, let me know!
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aaronpk I know sandro from the w3c social web group wants to go
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[benatwork] Genuinely wish I could.
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kylewm snarfed: kevin did ask https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/728245999798378496
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@kevinmarks @jeffubois @tantek would you be interested in speakers on #indieweb? (twitter.com/_/status/728245999798378496)
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KevinMarks ah, yes: https://github.com/kevinmarks/noterlive/blob/master/web/index.html#L143
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KevinMarks I can email brewster/jeff and ask more formally
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aaronpk looks like they don't have their speaker lineup set yet, would be awesome if someone gave a talk on the first day!
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snarfed1 the speaker lineup on http://www.decentralizedweb.net/people/ looks pretty intimidating
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snarfed1 i'd probably start with just proposing a lightning talk on day 2 :P
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aaronpk oh i was looking at the schedule page which said "The Summit schedule will be announced soon."
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snarfed1 right
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aaronpk nah don't be intimidated by big names :)
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snarfed1 fair!
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snarfed1 KevinMarks: definitely feel free to ping them! and/or come up! i'd happily join you
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KevinMarks Vint, Cory and Brewster are all good speakers, but I've been on stage wiht them before
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KevinMarks 17 organizers, 3 speakers is a bit odd
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snarfed maybe more of a summit than conference, esp the first day
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snarfed "two-day event for high level discussions among leaders"
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aaronpk see that is the kind of sentence that makes me not want to go
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KevinMarks heh
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KevinMarks if it said "thought leaders"
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snarfed yup
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Jeena The work on my website is much more structured since I started explicitly adding issues to a list where I can go and look what I can do next https://github.com/jeena/jeena.net/issues
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snarfed tries to keep an open mind
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aaronpk tries too, but it's hard with stuff like that
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KevinMarks that would be offputting, but those 3 are good people who have actually built things
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snarfed right
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snarfed same with internet archive the org
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snarfed good faith and all
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KevinMarks hm, should I go to internet archive lunch on friday and talk to them?
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aaronpk probably
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KevinMarks ah, view source on http://svgur.com/i/5i and I see Myriad font with no fallback and no webfont link
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snarfed KevinMarks: do it! and let us know what they say
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aaronpk KevinMarks: yeah that SVG came out of illustrator, with some minor modifications (I added the css block, it used to be all inline)
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Zegnat KevinMarks: https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/pull/2 - done
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KevinMarks oh wow, thanks Zegnat - I was still misreading the ij
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Zegnat It happens. Not everyone at IWC tuned in to it quickly either. It’s not a foreign-friendly name
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GWG Afternoon
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Zegnat Mart\u0133n - if that helps, KevinMarks ;)
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KevinMarks I thought that was a disputed character, as it's really a kern pair
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KevinMarks though if ffl can vave a ligature, why not ij
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KevinMarks oh right it was ÿ that was the bogus one
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Zegnat I never dispute it as a letter. When I was four I had to learn the alphabet with the IJ between X and Z. It used to be a Scrabble tile. It is always capitalised together in names (IJsselmeer). Etc.
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KevinMarks whereas ij is the real ligature
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KevinMarks right. it was putting ÿ in as \uff that was the mistake
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Zegnat But it is a little weird. I think these days Y has replaced IJ in the alphabet at Dutch schools. Standardising towards the English-Latin alphabet.
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KevinMarks because early fonts had a ij that looked like a y umlaut
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Zegnat This is basically how I remember learning the alphabet: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Dutch_handwriting_sample.png
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KevinMarks ah, and in handwriting it does look like ÿ
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Zegnat Yes. In handwriting it is always written as a connected ligature / single letter. That’s also how I would write my name.
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Zegnat In fact, I would say my name has 6 letters, rather than the 7 you would type. But those things are constantly disputed even within the Netherlands
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tantek Zegnat, it's like Dijkstra right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger_W._Dijkstra
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Zegnat tantek, yes
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Zegnat Facebook is actually very good at unicode, so there I am Mart\u0133n. Very funny when people write my name in the search bar and when they hit “marti” I disappear from the results ;)
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tantek.com edited /IIIF (+388) "sessions, articles, see also" (view diff)
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Zegnat time for sleep. I should finish my writeup for the demo page combining KevinMarks’ and my notes on the wiki tomorrow.
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Zegnat Have a good one, all!
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tantek aaronpk: I think webmention.rocks should send a inverse webmention (source/target swapped) for any success (where it shows a result on a test page), just to see if the source fails to handle it and adds an errant comment. >:D
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tantek good night Zegnat!
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Loqi night night
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aaronpk I could add one test that does that. I thought we had settled on that not being best practice for sending tho
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tantek "not being best practice" != don't test
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tantek there had been a straw proposal to use it (once) as a way to of notifying "response accepted"
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tantek which seems reasonable (doesn't have the geometric explosion problem that other proposals did/do)
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tantek I figure since gRegorLove went to the trouble of fixing his implementation, we should add that to encourage more of the same
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tantek in other words, adding it by default to webmention.rocks passing results will cause people to write the tiny bit of defensive code necessary for this, and thus strengthen webmention implementations by default
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aaronpk last time I had an idea like that, you had advocated against it since people will be looking at webmention.rocks as a guide on what to do when sending webmentions
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@biblissima RT @azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730500683791765505)
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@textandbytes RT @azaroth42 Use of #WebMention W3C spec for notification of new #IIIF resources via @textandbytes & @jeffreycwitt http://lombardpress.org/slides/2016-05-11-iiif-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/730501004135895041)
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tantek aaronpk: I changed my mind since getting defensive implementations of this has value in terms of this past week's discussions.
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tantek The more robust we can cause webmention implementations to be by default, the greater the chance of webmention being higher fidelity in practice, and thus scale more across sites / adoption etc.
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tantek wonders if we could cause pingback loops with existing pingback implementations
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tantek what is person-tag-of?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "person-tag-of" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10LE
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tantek person-tag-of is /tag-of#person_tag_reply
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loqi.me created /person-tag-of (+36) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-11/line/1463000140411 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /person-tag-reply (+39) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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[shaners] tantek: do you remember the concentric circles thing that indie mark is based on?
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[kevinmarks] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/20165911636082walt-mossberg-code-conference-preview-recode-relaunch-well-i-think-its-dangerous-ill-tell-you-why
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] http://www.recode.net/2016/5/9/11636082/walt-mossberg-code-conference-preview-recode-relaunch “Well, I think it's dangerous. I'll tell you why. And you can't ignore it. And Vox, being a forward-looking company, is not ignoring it, but here's the th...
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tantek.com edited /area-tag (+809) "/* person tag as area tag */ move more brainstorming / code examples from /photo to here" (view diff)
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[shaners] http://microformats.org/wiki/logo
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Loqi Spread Microformats
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[shaners] wrong channel
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tantek yeah!
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tantek ok photo posseing is no longer just brainstorming, but rather definitely in practice
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@jgmac1106 Can someone explain this to a norm? Is the W3c really making DRM into a standard? https://boingboing.net/2016/05/11/save-firefox-the-w3cs-plan.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/730510985132396544)
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KevinMarks hm, that buried the lede "First of all, you have to devote a team of developers to meeting whatever it is, the standards or the platform for Facebook, a separate one for Apple, a separate one for Snapchat, soon Google has one."
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tantek what is a norm?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "norm" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10LH
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KartikPrabhu wikipedia says" a norm is a function that assigns a strictly positive length or size to each vector in a vector space—save for the zero vector, which is assigned a length of zero"
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KartikPrabhu ;)
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tantek thank you wikipedia for being so precise and jargony :P
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KevinMarks norm in context there meant muggle
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KevinMarks aaronpk: so, you can use text-anchor="end" to right align the text in the names in a font-indpendent way
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aaronpk ooh
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KevinMarks you need to give the co-ordinate of the endpoint
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KevinMarks if you set textLength to a measured length, you can make it match evenif the font is substituted
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aaronpk i'm not worried about font substitution. this will only be rendered on a computer that has the font installed
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KevinMarks OK
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KevinMarks lengthAdjust can be made to squish the text to fit
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tantek KevinMarks: muggle is a bit derogative, hoping we can do better than that
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KevinMarks hm, layman?
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KevinMarks awkwardly gendered
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KevinMarks presumably Myriad would do that well
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KevinMarks compare http://svgur.com/s/3a to http://svgur.com/s/30
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Loqi textlength on the tspan
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Loqi text in boxes
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KevinMarks Indieweb pokes out fo the yellow box on the 30 one but not the 3a one, because there is a textLength and lengthAdjust s
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KevinMarks but depending on browser the Indieweb text will be condensed or expanded
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aaronpk they look almost the same to me, the text doesn't extend past the box in either
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tantek so much /photo updating
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tantek finds his first photo auto-POSSEd to Flickr
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tantek.com edited /photo (+736) "summary tagging section after How for all the ways people are tagging photos (both IndieWeb in use, and research from silo UX), noted my person-tag POSSEing since, move area-tag brainstorming to separate page" (view diff)
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tantek phew that was a bunch of cleanup+updating
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tantek forgets how he fell down that rabbithole
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tantek oh I remember now, IIIF
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tantek and documenting our photo tagging ("annotations") that we've both implemented and brainstormed to date
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tantek so I could get anarchivist's feedback / input on various methods
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tantek so we could look at compat
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KevinMarks hm, posting pix to slack is not mirrored
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tantek anarchivist: here is the summary of all the ways we're tagging/annotating photos on the IndieWeb, both implemented, and research/brainstormed (could be implemented) https://indiewebcamp.com/photo#Tagging
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tantek KevinMarks: no idea what you mean by that
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KevinMarks I posted screenshots tot he slack channel, but the irc bot doesn't link them
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aaronpk they don't come through as messages for some reason
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aaronpk it just occurred to me that i can use flickstagram as a test bed for applying for permissions for ownyourgram
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aaronpk they do the same thing except flickstagram copies your instagram photos to flickr but ownyourgram copies them to your website
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tantek.com edited /photo_brainstorming () "(-778) /* People Tagging */ moved this brainstorm to its own page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /photo_brainstorming () "(-729) /* POSSE */ delete POSSE brainstorming that's now part of /photo actual behavior / how to" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /photo (+66) "/* POSSEing */ delete old Twitter API method, cite Bridgy Publish issue for support implemented" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /photo (+73) "/* Tagging */ IIIF for more research" (view diff)
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tantek so much updating to do
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+189) "/* Brighton UK */ vote on a few more dates" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /next-iwc (-12) "IndieWeb Summit is next!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+4) "IndieWeb Summit is next!" (view diff)
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tantek waits for the header to update
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tantek.com edited /Events (-4) "move Düsseldorf to past" (view diff)