#indieweb 2016-08-08

2016-08-08 UTC
snarfed, hs0ucy and KevinMarks joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "”® inline RTL works in reverse without implementers knowing #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/-inline-rtl-works-in-reverse-without-implementers-knowing
#
Loqi [indieweb] "The title is "مفتاح معايير الويب!”" in Arabic. (exclamation mark should be on left) #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/the-title-is-%D9%85%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D9%8A%D8%A8-in-arabicexclamation-mark-should
#
Loqi [indieweb] "The title is “مفتاح معايير الويب!”” in Arabic. (exclamation mark should be on left) #indieweb - smart quotes" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/the-title-is-%D9%85%D9%81%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%AD-%D9%85%D8%B9%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%8A%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D9%8A%D8%A8-in-arabicexclamation-mark-should-be-on-left-indieweb---smart-quotes-1
#
KevinMarks So those pass through whatever triggered that too. Superfeedr?
#
aaronpk wow yeah
KevinMarks__, goodoo, KevinMarks, snarfed and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] I think we have made the interop case
cweiske, AndChat|566325, goodoo, KevinMarks__, Pierre-O, Pierre-O1, jihaisse, wolftune, Lana, loicm, friedcell, adactio, tvn and cmal joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Thinking about how to lighten @withknown CSS/JS load https://tools.pingdom.com/#!/d71PWS/https://www.rmendes.net/ #indieweb" by Rick Mendes https://rmendes.net/2016/thinking-about-how-to-lighten-withknown-cssjs-load-d71pws-indieweb
loicm, hs0ucy, friedcell, mlncn, leg, cyberjar09 and snarfed joined the channel
#
@lewisnyman Boom! http://lewisnyman.co.uk is now being served from a digital ocean droplet instead of Github pages. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/762654446065188864)
cmal, wolftune, snarfed and Emma2 joined the channel
#
Emma2 hello
#
Emma2 i am trying to send a webmention for my RSVP post for IndieWebCamp NYC 2
#
Emma2 does anyone know how I can do so?
#
GWG There are a few ways.
#
GWG For one, you can use something like curl.
#
GWG Also, some sites have a form for it...but I don't think that site does.
#
Emma2 what is curl?
#
Loqi cURL is a common Linux software library and command line used to get/send a file from/to a URL using only HTTP(S) https://indieweb.org/cURL
#
aaronpk i should make a form for that, that sounds useful
#
GWG Many people have one on their site to send webmentions to it.
#
Emma2 hmm ok. im not really sure what that means. is there an easy way that i can make my RSVP appear on the web page?
#
aaronpk oh i made a secret form
#
GWG Emma2: If aaronpk makes a form, you can just put in the URL and it will check it.
#
GWG aaronpk: Got link?
#
aaronpk Emma2: put the URL to your post in here http://2016.indieweb.org/webmention.php
Garbee joined the channel
#
Emma2 cool, thanks. i just tried and it says, "Your post doesn't seem to have an in-reply-to property"
#
GWG Emma2: What is the URL for the RSVP?
#
GWG Let's have a look.
#
Emma2 i put emmahodge.org
#
Emma2 should it be something else?
#
GWG Emma2: In order to RSVP, you have to craft a specific page/post
#
Emma2 it is posted on my page
#
Emma2 does that not work?
#
aaronpk oh I see... that is unconventional
#
aaronpk typically people make a separate post that is the RSVP post so that the RSVP has its own URL
#
GWG For example, https://david.shanske.com/2016/07/07/rsvp-nyc2/
#
Loqi [David Shanske] I plan on attending Indiewebcamp NYC 2. Attending this event: yes
#
Emma2 ok! i'll try that
#
Emma2 thank you
#
GWG Emma2: No, thank you. You arranged for a venue.
sandro and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
#
[kevinmarks] You can also use mention-tech.appspot.com to send them
#
Emma2 hmm ok so im trying to make a new page for the RSVP and it isn't working and ive notice that none of the text is green and blue, as it is on other pages that work
#
Emma2 im not sure what im doing wrong
#
GWG What is the URL?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "URL" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
Emma2 ok, i have to run but thanks for the help! i'll try to figure it out more later :) bye!
snarfed and snarfed1 joined the channel
#
cmal so I did a little messing around with fast-route and no-api and came up with this : https://github.com/paulcmal/noapi-api
#
cmal basically it uses noapi to drain info from Twitter and then formats it as either json or html
#
cmal note that the JSON is neither mf2 nor AS2 compliant, it's the noapi format although they're probably going to use something standard in the future
#
cmal it's far from finished but I think it's pretty cool already, #Indieweb as json feed https://noapi.subversive.audio/twitter/tag/indieweb.json
snarfed joined the channel
#
cmal so feel free to mess around with it :)
#
@kevinmarks I think @shevski here saying we need to make using open tech performatively cool is spot on http://redecentralize.org/conf2015/2016/08/02/07-day-one-closing-panel.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/762679894975258625)
#
Loqi [indieweb] "I think @shevski here saying we need to make using open tech performatively cool is spot on http://redecentralize.org/conf2015/2016/08/02/07-day-one-closing-panel.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/i-think-shevski-here-saying-we-need-to-make-using
#
snarfed cmal: cool! i was thinking about doing the same thing, for both noapi and social-stats
#
snarfed i'd love to hear how you think it compares to https://github.com/snarfed/granary#using-the-rest-api !
#
cmal snarfed: @alct is going to rewrite social_stats using noapi I think we just need to focus on wrapping noapi properly (which I'm not really doing atm)
#
cmal I'll go check it out :)
#
snarfed cmal: it's basically the same thing, but full featured and supports multiple silos. https://granary-demo.appspot.com/
#
cmal yup, the only difference here is we're just scrapping html from silos so paging is sort of difficult
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk I just added a simple view counter to my posts to track the number of times they've been viewed. I realized i didn't have that info anywhere other than google analytics, and it would at least be nice to know which of my posts are most viewed even if it's not super detailed stats.
#
@kingkool68 Related: https://indieweb.org/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/762690099012308993)
#
tommorris aaronpk: at some point I might do that. just have it so each view leads to an event on a queue that'll be rolled into occasional DB updates.
loicm joined the channel
#
aaronpk eh i just update the DB on every view, old-skool
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
tommorris aaronpk: I'd rather not give malicious actors a way to DDOS my database.
#
aaronpk i'm sure there are other ways they can already do that :)
#
snarfed worrying about avoiding ddoses kind of reminds me of nutrition and trying to eat healthy. i suspect in practice the cost of the effort and stress far outweighs any actual benefit or harm prevented
#
aaronpk lol!
#
snarfed at least, for the project/site size we have here :P
#
aaronpk there are some pretty basic nutrition things you can do that actually do make a difference tho, likely analogous to some basic site architecture things you can do to prevent trivial DOSs
#
aaronpk but that sounds like a conversation for a different channel
#
snarfed ohhhhh yes it does
#
aaronpk indiefood
#
snarfed i would *love for my site or any of my projects to be so popular that anyone noticed it and cared enough to ddos it
#
snarfed but until then...
#
aaronpk i use background queues for stuff where the tradeoff is in user experience. like if i make a post on my site and then i want to send webmentions, posse to multiple locations, etc, if the form I submit had to wait until all that was done before I saw the post it would be terrible. so I put all that on a background queue.
#
snarfed oh definitely! UX and latency count. just mostly a different thing.
singpolyma joined the channel
#
aaronpk totally
#
snarfed but the techniques definitely overlap
wolftune and snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk well that was fun. Just fixed a hilarious bug. since I added support for multi-photo over the weekend, I discovered that a bunch of my bookmark posts had the screenshot of the site like 20-30 times in the post. this meant the pages were showing like 30 photos in the post and bringing my browser to a crawl.
#
aaronpk turns out my cron job i set up at indieweb summit to make the screenshots forgot to check if it had already posted the screenshot, so they just kept stacking up
#
snarfed lol
#
snarfed great timing re your site architecture/dos point
#
snarfed chances someone else will dos any of us: low
#
snarfed chances we'll dos ourselves: not so low
#
aaronpk haha
#
Loqi nice
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Bookmarklets for #Indieweb Favorites and Retweets by Chris Aldrich" by Chris Aldrich http://techlifeweb.com/bookmarklets-for-indieweb-favorites-and-retweets/#comment-120540
KartikPrabhu, goodoo, snarfed and neilpdx joined the channel
#
cmal btw snarfed (or anyone), do you have ANY idea why pictures are not being displayed properly in the HTML view? https://noapi.subversive.audio/tag/indieweb.html
#
snarfed cmal: sorry, i'm going to need more contexts. and that url 404s :P
#
cmal woops wrong url https://noapi.subversive.audio/twitter/tag/indieweb.html
#
cmal and actually my bad pictures *are* being displayed, it's just a problem with my browser I think
#
snarfed privacy browser plugins often block silo avatars
#
snarfed comes up here often
#
cmal yup, that's what I have in mind :)
#
cmal anyway I was planning on doing some local caching, so let's go with this :D
#
snarfed also i don't envy you all the task of updating your scraping logic every time silos tweak their html
#
aaronpk spoken from experience :)
#
snarfed heh
#
snarfed API ideology is fine and all, and APIs do change too, but way less often, and with better warning and migration plans :P
#
cmal agreed, but it also requires to be logged in therefore it's easier to get banned if you do stuff Twitter doesn't like
#
cmal so this solution sounds perfect to me for people who'd like to add "social walls" to their websites while loading everything from there
#
cmal then how they get the data from the silo is their problem : can be a script switching VPNs to make it more random, could be a DHT-based pool of knowledge, for all I know :)
#
cmal so I think although it's hacky and can break down sometimes, it's ultimately the most portable and anonymizing way to fetch data off silo that I know of
#
snarfed you can use the API without your users logging in, you just use an app-wide token
#
snarfed and getting banned does happen, but way less often than people think
#
cmal I mean better would be to have millions of users letting a silo app or a browser addon share in p2p the *public* content they receive, but we're not quite there yet :)
#
snarfed (i know; i've had one app get "banned" from one silo, and many many more doing more "stuff they don't like" survive fine)
#
snarfed in practice, the silos don't notice you or care until you get somewhat big, e.g. >10k active users
#
cmal I don't know, call me whatever you like, but I don't like the idea of relying on the good faith of any kind of corporation or state
#
snarfed (friends who've worked at four different silos have confirmed this)
#
cmal not that I'm afraid of getting banned, I just prefer never to rely on them
#
cmal 10k users, we've got some margin 8)
#
snarfed but that's my point, noapi started scraping from the beginning, regardless of the margin
#
snarfed as an example, bridgy did have to switch to scraping instagram since they turned off much of its API for all apps, not just bridgy specifically...but we did that only when we had to
#
snarfed and it's a pain, and we're very happy we still get to use all the other APIs
#
snarfed anyway. i'll stop now. just a pet peeve.
#
aaronpk is not looking forward to updating the scraping for ownyourgram when the time comes
#
snarfed yuuup
#
cmal well what you say makes sense in the case of a central hub a lot of people rely on (like bridgy), but if we're talking about a really decentralized setup the pros and cons of both sort of balance each other (having to register your app regularly to Facebook Known-style is really troublesome)
#
cmal ^^
#
snarfed eh. i disagree, based on years of fairly deep experience on both sides of this.
#
snarfed but that's totally ok. good luck, let a thousand flowers bloom!
#
aaronpk 🌸
#
GWG Afternoon
#
aaronpk cmal: btw have you been able to sign in to the wiki? you should add yourself to https://indieweb.org/irc-people so your picture and website show up in the logs!
#
cmal yup I have a userpage already and everything, I'll do this :)
#
cmal just atm my blog is broken (wrongfully edited a file on prod and not dev :()
#
cmal (that was like 4 weeks ago…… ……… ……)
#
cmal also what about ActivityPub, are some people actually working on implementing that as a "replacement" for webmentions + mf2 ?
#
cmal because I think it's just brilliant, a PUBSUB architecture for the social web would make interconnection with XMPP-based social networks way easier
#
aaronpk there's some work on that happening in the w3c social group, but not a lot of implementations yet.
#
cmal I see
#
aaronpk PubSubHubbub was just adopted within the group as well, and that works with microformats2 feeds
#
cmal hmm, I need to check this out :)
#
GWG I feel that we are on the cusp of something
#
bear the beauty of incremental progress is that we are on the cusp of something every monght
#
bear s/monght/month/
#
aaronpk bear++
#
Loqi bear has 155 karma (123 in this channel)
#
GWG I meant standards wise
#
bear yes, I do get what you mean and it does feel that way
#
bear my reason for stating that is, in my view, incremental implementation progress that leads to standards is soooo much saner than what has happened in the past
smcgregor joined the channel
#
aaronpk indeed, "standards" which are made up before any implementation (especially before any interoperable implementations) are likely to turn out to be irrelevant in the long run
loicm joined the channel
#
GWG But we move closer to more implementation
#
GWG So I feel hopeful
#
bear GWG++ for pointing out meta patterns those of us in the back-of-the-house rarely can see because of our focus
#
Loqi gwg has 174 karma (160 in this channel)
#
GWG bear, I look forward to being amazed
#
bear as do I :)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
gRegorLove What is ActivityPub?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ActivityPub" yet. Would you like to create it?
#
gRegorLove Is it like a cross between ActivityStreams and PuSH?
#
aaronpk It's more like a CRUD API for ActivityStreams
#
neilpdx is this anything like HTML5 Desktop Notifications?
#
aaronpk no, it's an API for moving activitystreams objects around
#
neilpdx ok
#
bear my naive-spent-10-seconds-thinking-about-it thoughts are that it should be a mix of micropub+webmention calls
loicm joined the channel
#
aaronpk what should be?
#
cmal bear: actually neither ^^
#
bear ActivityPub
#
aaronpk this is getting into #indieweb-dev territory
friedcell joined the channel
#
bear :) - was just an off-the-cuff comment
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
@Moturoais INC = the Independent Network Channel on your @RokuPlayer #Indie #indiefilm #Indieweb #indiedoc #IndieHorror #grindhouse (twitter.com/_/status/762750462600867840)
friedcell, goodoo, mlncn and Zegnat joined the channel
#
miklb not exactly sure where this fits in with iIndieWeb exactly, but interesting option to have comments on a static site hosted on GitHub https://github.com/eduardoboucas/staticman
Calli, quails and wolftune joined the channel
#
cmal okay I think I'm done with caching the avatars locally (although the code could use some rewriting), so I'll be off for the night :)
#
cmal I'm curiously happy this works :D https://noapi.subversive.audio/twitter/tag/indieweb ~o~
#
cmal good night everyone
#
Loqi see you in the morning!
#
KevinMarks That's a 404 for me, cmal
Lana and wolftune joined the channel
#
sknebel KevinMarks: probably meant https://noapi.subversive.audio/twitter/tag/indieweb.html, at least all other URLs had .html at the end
wolftune and AndChat|566325 joined the channel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on Bookmarklets for #Indieweb Favorites and Retweets by Scott Kingery" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/bookmarklets-for-indieweb-favorites-and-retweets/#comment-120560
mlncn joined the channel
#
aliasd http://newsfeed.es/resources/maps/yemensomalia.html <--- can someone verify that the tiles aren't loading? I don't know if this is a local issue
mlncn and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
sknebel aliasd: map works for me
#
aliasd ty muchly sknebel
#
Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" http://calagator.org/events/1250470643
#
Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Aug 10, 5:30pm at The Standard
#
aliasd i just managed to load it here too, off someone elses pc, but others have not been able to load them either
#
aliasd diagnosed! ssl issues!
#
@sdepolo Ever published content to #socialMedia, then lost it? Watch: why we need #indieWeb: https://www.youtube.com/ via @T (twitter.com/_/status/762800054021136384)