#indieweb 2016-11-26

2016-11-26 UTC
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tantek yay Göteborg is on this week!
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Loqi woot
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tantek gives Loqi an enthusiasm
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Loqi grabs the enthusiasm
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tantek I'm going to call Amsterdam a pop-up
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tantek since it sounds like it from the chatter
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[sebsel] what is a pop-up?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pop-up" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[sebsel] But I think it will be something like that. We don’t even have a real place now. But it’s a start!
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tantek a pop-up is a one-time event, like a one-time Homebrew Website Club at a new city or location, often to see how much interest there is before committing to a regular event.
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tantek hey 10 min Loqi!
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[sebsel] what is a pop-up?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "pop-up" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[sebsel] Is it rude to repeat your definition now?
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[sebsel] a pop-up is a one-time event, like a one-time Homebrew Website Club at a new city or location, often to see how much interest there is before committing to a regular event.
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Loqi ok
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[sebsel] authorship :/
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Loqi [indieweb] "Fix the internet by writing good stuff and being nice to people by @vboykis http://blog.vickiboykis.com/2016/11/20/fix-the-internet/ tres #indieweb" by Chris Aldrich on 2016-11-26 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/fix-the-internet-by-writing-good-stuff-and-being-nice
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@ChrisAldrich Fix the internet by writing good stuff and being nice to people by @vboykis http://blog.vickiboykis.com/2016/11/20/fix-the-internet/ tres #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/802326072218025984)
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Loqi [indieweb] "I cannot share via silo.pub anymore to Twitter/FB. Always getting a 500. Has someone else that problem, too? #indieweb #posse" by Norman Köhring on 2016-11-22 https://log.koehr.in/2016/11/22/i-cannot-share-via-silopub-anymore-to-twitterfb-always-getting
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@acegiak @acegiak at least http://indieweb.org isn't a monolith that will fail without sufficient uptake. Even if it's not feature complete yet. (twitter.com/_/status/802353959331450880)
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@acegiak @LxFrancis yeah that's too many ifs for me. At least http://indieweb.org doesn't need everything to happen all at once to be useful (twitter.com/_/status/802357823069769729)
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@acegiak @Acccent @LxFrancis oh neat! I'm still skeptical. Saw too many of these fail six years ago, watched solid development of indieweb since. (twitter.com/_/status/802363351044997120)
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@acegiak @Acccent @LxFrancis http://indieweb.org ? (twitter.com/_/status/802365118705115136)
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@acegiak @Acccent @LxFrancis so a feed reader? Yup i have one of those on my indieweb site. I reply to and reblog posts from it all the time. (twitter.com/_/status/802369281019084800)
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@acegiak @Acccent @LxFrancis some other indieweb people see my posts on their websites' readers and reply to or reblog things on their sites. (twitter.com/_/status/802369562054303744)
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tantek ChrisAldrich's link is a fascinating article critiquing modern silo tendencies / incentives and contrasting it all with past blogging culture: http://blog.vickiboykis.com/2016/11/20/fix-the-internet/
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@t “best way you can defy crap content … is to write your own blog on your own platform” @vboykis. #indieweb ... http://tantek.com/2016/330/t2 (twitter.com/_/status/802375658315730944)
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Loqi [indieweb] "“best way you can defy crap content … is to write your own blog on your own platform” @vboykis. #indieweb http://blog.vickiboykis.com/2016/11/20/fix-the-internet/ [And yes, even just quotes from blog posts: post them on your own site first, syndicating them elsewhere (indieweb.org/POSSE) just for distribution. —t]" on 2016-11-26 http://tantek.com/2016/330/t2/defy-crap-content-write-your-own-blog
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tantek fascinating thread here where acegiak explains a lot of the finer points of indieweb (as being distinct from other efforts) https://twitter.com/LxFrancis/status/802357481338830848
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@LxFrancis same. If it's eventually better than Twitter, and everyone can be properly connected, AND everyone cool migrates to… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/802357481338830848 (twitter.com/_/status/802357481338830848)
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KartikPrabhu <shrug> "eventually better than Twitter" is an impossible criterion to meet
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tantek if and if and if - great way to procrastinate yourself into never doing anything, and staying stuck on Twitter
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KartikPrabhu right that's what I meant
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bignose it's quite human and understandable. even being *better* (in features) than Twitter is not enough, because the motivation to stay is largely the fact that one's social network is on Twitter.
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bignose so we need to listen to what people *say* they want (such-and-so features, all my friends are there, etc.)
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bignose while also *shifting* The discussion by presenting the IndieWeb as having what Twitter can never have.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: yes, a very valid point. having your social circle onTwitter is one of the major hindrances. But "more features" is not the excuse
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bignose right. the difficult thing is that people *believe* it's the features which keep them there; so, when someone presents an alternative and they don't want to move, they look for a justification for their feeling
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bignose and find it by saying “aha, it lacks this feature, that's why I won't go”.
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bignose I believe those justifications are mere post-hoc rationalisation, most of the time, for people who don't want to admit their own inertia.
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bignose for which they shouldn't be blamed; but which we should recognise when discussing how to convince those people.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: agreed. so how does one convince their social group to be more indieweb?
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bignose I don't have a complete answer :-) but I'm pretty sure it's not easy, nor is it simple.
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KartikPrabhu to be honest, I have failed at this, since convincing any one person seems to be futile since they can bring up the whole "social circle" argument again
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bignose I think the major advantage is already being pressed hard: IndieWeb is a way to keep control over one's data and publishing, without first requiring everyone else to move there too.
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KartikPrabhu most people I know don't seem to care about "owning their content"
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bignose that advantage needs to keep being pursued, because it's not easy for a newcomer to comprehend (and is even frightening for many people).
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bignose the “social circle” argument is neutered by pointing out that they don't have to lose that at all.
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bignose i.e. it stops being an issue, allowing the discussion to focus on actual differences where IndieWeb can be an advantage.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: not true. Most of my social circle does not follow my site in anyway
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bignose I guess I'm talking about POSSE. (I'm still very new to IndieWeb, and am not even doing it myself yet.)
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KartikPrabhu bignose: POSSE is a good point. If I am doing POSSE, why should my friends get their own website?
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bignose I think at this stage we need to focus conversation with those who are already dissatisfied, who have already got their own motivation to want to put in some effort to find something other than the big platforms.
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bignose people who might consider departing Facebook to move to some new proprietary silo from Silicon Valley, is I think a prime recipient for the IndieWeb message.
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bignose catch them (difficult to do!) while they're ready to put in the effort to learn something new
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KartikPrabhu bignose: people have moved from silo to silo for years now without realising they might want to move to Indieweb
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bignose and while they're receptive to the idea of what's *really* fundamentally unsatisfying about a walled-garden platform.
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tantek people "moved" to Twitter (and Instagram) when both had a fraction of the features of previous networks
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tantek so all the "must have feature x" arguments are nonsense and ignorable
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tantek they are not at all indications of what motivates people to actually switch
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tantek since people have switched in the past without such features
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bignose yep. it's not usually a wealth of features that makes the early movers migrate; it's some discussion about values or freedom or the like.
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tantek or just trendiness vs boredome
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tantek boredom*
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes agreed that "features" are not the issue. so what is?
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tantek Twitter was so utterly simple to start with, that "features" was never a reason to switch to it.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: ease of signing up. simplicity of UI. escaping the "uncool"
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bignose KartikPrabhu: as I say, appealing to values and the desire to escape what they *already perceive* as the problem with an established platform.
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tantek happened with every social network silo switch in the past. whether Friendster or MySpace or Orkut or etc.
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tantek values is also irrelevant in previous history of switches
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes! ease of use is definitely one of them. Honestly do you think Indieweb is at that point?
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bignose ease of use has a technical aspect, which is where elbow grease and spare time of technically-skilled people comes in
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tantek KartikPrabhu: no indieweb is not at that point because of what I exclaimed earlier in the past few days - how few of the people even here in this channel actually use their own site instead of (before) posting to Twitter
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bignose and it has a consistently-spreading-the-word aspect, which is where passionate well-spoken people come in.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: less than 10 people here: https://indieweb.org/ownyourdata#IndieWeb_Examples
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KartikPrabhu bignose: I have found that no amount of passionate exposition is convincing if it is not easy
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bignose KartikPrabhu: you're agreeing with me. I said that's one aspect. necessary, not sufficient.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: wow! that is really heartrending!
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KartikPrabhu bignose: yes, we are not arguing against each other really
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tantek KartikPrabhu: vs >100 here https://indieweb.org/IRC_People#Nicknames
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tantek so why are all those people who have IndieAuth, who edited the wiki to add themselves to /IRC_People, not using their own sites to tweet?
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tantek until we can figure that out and solve it, no we do not have a "easy to use" setup for IndieWeb
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KartikPrabhu tantek: could it be because they have not bothered to add themselves to the list of /ownyourdata ?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: possibly some of them. but I think you'll find a spot check of /IRC_People to be posting natively on Twitter and not their own sites
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KartikPrabhu right. is that because posting to Twitter is easier?
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tantek yes
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tantek especially on mobile. especially replying and faving
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bear hmm, being a python person *and* someone who wrote python-twitter... you would think I would be posse'ing to twitter from my site
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KartikPrabhu bear: what prevents you from doing that
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bear lack of a reading solution
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KartikPrabhu also how easy is it to setup python-twitter
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tantek bear, interesting that you're tying reading and writing
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tantek that seems to be supporting my integrated reader hypothesis
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bear it should be easy - I will need to find out
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bear well, I normally tweet in response to something I read - i'm not exactly a content producer for my twitter followers
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KartikPrabhu bear: yes! most people want a connection between reading and writing. You read something and then by clicking a button share/like/repost something
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bear they follow me because I curate/aggregate other content to it
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tantek heck I've started to even ownmyrsvps to FB events
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tantek I should document that
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bear I think I just nerd-sniped myself - get some sort of tool that pushes my twitter stream to a mf2/html feed
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Loqi yea!
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KartikPrabhu Loqi agrees!
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bear like the irc-logs are here
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tantek what is an integrated reader?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "integrated reader" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek hmm
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tantek what is a reader
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Loqi A reader (or indie reader) in the context of the indieweb is the portion/feature integrated into an indieweb site that provides a way to read content from other indieweb sites, possibly including posts from the current site as well https://indieweb.org/reader
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tantek integrated reader is /reader
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I don't think there are any examples of an integrated reader
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tantek KartikPrabhu: disagree: https://indieweb.org/reader#IndieWeb_examples
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tantek acegiak's setup is particularly good in this regard, and it's on WordPress no less
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KartikPrabhu aah yes, colour me incorrect. Doesn't seems to have caught on tough
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you'd have to check the edit history / velocity of that section to provide a summary based on data
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tantek of "caught on" vs not or how much it is "catching on"
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I was just going by the examples on that section. Most peoplle with indiewebsites don't have an integrated reader
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tantek KartikPrabhu: you can't determine a temporal expression ("caught on") with a static snapshot of a single point in time. you have to look at change over time
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tantek you're the physicist ;)
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KartikPrabhu yes, and my conjecture is that it hasn't caught on ;)
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tantek you'll note the roughly similar #s of integrated reader usage and ownyourdata examples
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tantek they are catching on, just slowly, and unevenly
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tantek manually fixes a POSSE error
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KartikPrabhu depends on "integrated" I don't think Woodwind counts as an "integrated reader"
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KartikPrabhu neither does Monocle
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tantek Monocle is offline - that should be updated if it is mentioned there
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tantek what is Monocle?
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Loqi Monocle is an open source IndieWeb-enabled reader developed by https://aaronparecki.com/photo.jpgAaron Parecki https://indieweb.org/Monocle
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tantek hmm - that's also out of date
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KartikPrabhu sure, but most people do not have their own sites with a reader
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KartikPrabhu even amongst those that do post on their own sites
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tantek you mean the ownyourdata overlap?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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tantek a-ha, I haven't owned my RSVPs yet
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tantek alright, time to make that a commitment
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tantek what is 2017-01-01?
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Loqi 2017-01-01-commitments are implementation and launch commitments publicly made by the IndieWeb community to ship on their personal sites by 2017-01-01 00:00 local time https://indieweb.org/2017-01-01
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KartikPrabhu I feel that unless there is a one-stop-shop for "read-post-react", most people wouldn't care about switching to indieweb
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KartikPrabhu that is ignoring all the technical stuff about setting up a website
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that sounds like you're dangerously close to the mass adoption anti-pattern
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KartikPrabhu I am dagerously close to the mass adoption anti-pattern because that seems to be why most of the people I interact with don't care about having their own sites
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KartikPrabhu I am content with me being the only one, but if the goal of Indieweb is to reach out to more people then it does need to address these "mass adoption" questions
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tantek that's a false if-then dichotomy
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tantek because every actual example of mass adoption of social networks never had to bother with "address these ... questions" at any one point in time.
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tantek so I reject that theory of "does need to address"
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tantek because the data does not support it
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tantek this is why the mass adoption anti-pattern, is an anti-pattern
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tantek it seems logical, theoretically speaking, but has no basis in fact
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KartikPrabhu I agree. But if one is arguing for the Indieweb as an alternative, then one has to argue for "why it is better"
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tantek again, that doesn't necessarily folow
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tantek e.g. see above example about trendiness, boredom. add fashion to that if you will
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tantek Twitter was *worse* in many ways and people switched to it
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tantek so your assumption of "has to argue for ... why ... better" is also disputed by existing examples
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KartikPrabhu it is the same reason most of my friends who touted the value of Orkut switched to FB without hesitation
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bignose but note that the people who *did* switch to it were highly unusual, not representative of the people who joined and stayed when it became obvious.
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KartikPrabhu they do not care what network they are on as long as their freinds are there with them
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tantek bignose's point is also correct, the early adopters were not representative of the later mass adopters
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tantek maybe
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bignose so it's a fallacy to look at the average Twitter/Facebook/YouTube user *today* and think “what would it take to convince this person?”
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KartikPrabhu same reason people keep inviting me to Snapchat
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tantek there's also research that shows people swtich to networks to get *away* from others
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bignose that person is highly unlikely to switch until almost everyone else does. they're not who you should target today.
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tantek bignose, exactly. you may find indieweb.org/generations useful in this regard
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tantek looks up how he made previous annual commitments
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bignose instead, look to the people that have *convinced themselves*, before you even got to them, that something else is needed. they need only to know what else is out there.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: bignose: yes I agree that you could convince some people.
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tantek hmm I'm seeing UTF8 errors here: https://indieweb.org/irc/2014-12-17#t1418870412081
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bignose importantly, those people whom you can convince are highly unlike the representative average user of those services.
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KartikPrabhu bignose: exactly my point
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tantek hmm looks like previous annual commitments I've made only IRC
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tantek time to change that
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KartikPrabhu bignose: in my experience the number of people I could convince was 0
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KartikPrabhu apart from myself
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I agree with bignose here, convincing first is not the best strategy
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tantek instead, have a good solution first, then when people convince themselves they want something, you can point them at the good solution, and say hey, here's the thing you want
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KartikPrabhu tantek: so what is a good strategy?
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tantek and that "have a good solution first" is why we put selfdogfooding over marketing
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes, exactly my point. Indieweb was not a good solution to the thing they wanted. That is, have a big audience.
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tantek no one who joined twitter early on wanted "a big audience"
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tantek so yeah, you can kind of ignore "big audience" folks for the first or even second or third /generations
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tantek those people don't join things until there's lots of people there already
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tantek they're latecomers, not leaders. trailing indicators at best
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bear yea, I joined twitter at first because of the new tech stack they used to have -- sadly all that good stuff is now gone
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tantek I think I joined *despite* their tech stack
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bear :)
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bear I am a big pubsub/xmpp person - early twitter was a lot of fun
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tantek oh that aspect of their tech stack
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bear :)
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tantek yeah once I signed-up, the XMPP / GTalk integration was pretty sweet
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tantek then Twitter dropped XMPP, then Google dropped XMPP
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KartikPrabhu for example: I was making this website for a graphic artist, and they did not care if it was indieweb or not; despite having made the art for my article https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/indieweb-love-blog .
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Loqi [Kartik Prabhu] The Indieweb https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2GlIZlISDLI/UzOXiS8CZXI/AAAAAAAAP8o/bloZM9QKrrE/s500/indieweb.png
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KartikPrabhu all they wanted was that they could post to FB/Twitter with ease to gert more eyes on the art work
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tantek yep, gen 4
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KartikPrabhu exactly! gen 4 people
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KartikPrabhu tantek: so is the suggestion that might not be able to skip generations in the Indieweb>
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes - /generations covers that (not being able to skip)
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tantek (and why)
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KartikPrabhu that is actually annoying, because one's circle of influence might not be based on generations-of-indieweb
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KartikPrabhu and I have found this to be a problem while explaining science as well
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tantek sounds like you found an interesting meta problem then, intersecting personal social (actual IRL) networks with onramping/educating/adopting things
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KartikPrabhu yes, I can't seem to advocate any motivation to my friends for the Indieweb
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KartikPrabhu I would gladly setup a website for them, but using the website is not as easy as using Twitter/FB etc..
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KartikPrabhu and the whole "free" thing gets in the way too
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes, ease of setup/sign-in is quite essential unless there is some dramatic advantage (satisfying a need that other stuff is not)
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tantek if you're satisfying some previously unsatisfied need, people will jump through all sorts of hoops
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KartikPrabhu and to be completely honest, I wouldn't have my own website if I were not creatively interested in the Indieweb stuff
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I get the impression you appreciate the control and freedom aspects too
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes, also the creativity that comes along with those
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KartikPrabhu I have had people ask me what "theme" I use on my site, and I like that it is not a theme, I made it myself
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tantek KartikPrabhu: what's the name of the software you use on your site?
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tantek TFW your "brief" commitments post turns into an article.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: Django based on Python
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KartikPrabhu what is Bundle?
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Loqi Bundle is a set publishing tools for the Indieweb built using Python and Django https://indieweb.org/Bundle
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KartikPrabhu not open-sourced yet
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tantek KartikPrabhu: does Bundle have a theming feature?
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KartikPrabhu tantek: no. because I made it for my own site. So it is disjointed and pretty badly organised
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tantek that's ok, I could say the same about /Falcon :)
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KartikPrabhu I really shouldn't be the paragon of good software! ;)
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KartikPrabhu my goal at present is to organise it and hopefully make itopen-source
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KartikPrabhu but I've had little time to do it
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tantek open source at least parts of it to start with
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tantek as you clean up pieces
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tantek like functions or libraries
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tantek I think you have a few fellow python fans here who would be interested
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tantek and perhaps even create similar / complementary building blocks
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tantek bear said something about python ;)
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KartikPrabhu parts of it are opensource
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bear I think KartikPrabhu and I already share some common code
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bear always looking to expand that sphere
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KartikPrabhu most of my site is actually based on bear's work soo...
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KartikPrabhu indieweb parts at leasty
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bear coolness
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KartikPrabhu should update ronkyuu
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KartikPrabhu already asked bear for his micropub library
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bear yea, i'm sooo behind in getting that into a library :( -- i'm hoping to have a bit of free time with december being holiday/vacation time
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KartikPrabhu bear: no worries. I am sooooooooooo behind just doing any indieiweb stuff at all!
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bear cool, then I don't feel that bad - we are both crazy busy
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KartikPrabhu tantek: anyway just curious, if you think we really are jumping expectations in terms of indieweb generations?
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tantek which expectations?
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KartikPrabhu as in expectations of say gen 4 people being interested at all?
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tantek it's a likelihood / resistance / activation energy kind of thing
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tantek the more generations you try to jump, the lower the probabilitiy of understanding their actual (not asserted) needs/wants, and lower chance of success
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tantek the more resistance you're likely to run into
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tantek and the more energy (time, code, admin) it is likely to take you get them on the indieweb
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KartikPrabhu yes, agreed. Should we document these resistances?
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tantek (nevermind maintenance, helping them *stay* on the indieweb)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: worth documenting real world experiences yes. not worth brainstorming theoretical resistances, because they're likely nearly all wrong (as illustrated in the above conversation with just Twitter as an example debunking most assertions of "needs" in an alternative)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes, I did mean real world cases and not theoretical
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tantek what is adoption?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "adoption" yet. Would you like to create it?
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KartikPrabhu yeah it seems we don't even have a page for that
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KartikPrabhu and as a "not developer" I don't feel comfortable starting that page
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I'd say chat with benwerd about it - he has a bunch of experience here with Known, and may be able to help with some guidance about how to document such challenges
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KartikPrabhu bear: just as motivation, I am really keen on making an "integrated posting UI" for my site with micropub when you make that micropub mib
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KartikPrabhu lib*
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bear yea, that is definitely motivating me - it seems your doing a lot of thought with the UI and frontend process
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bear that allows me to not have to worry about that
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KartikPrabhu bear: I guess because I'm not a "backend" person I am automatically a "frontend" person ;)
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KartikPrabhu even though I am not a "dev" person per se
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bear oops - didn't mean to say that at all
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bear to me "frontend" is anyone who is good at UI work
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KartikPrabhu bear: you didn't say/imply it. It was me!
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bear it's my bias being very much an ops person
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bear oh - phew!
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KartikPrabhu I like to be the outsider
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bear same - I tend to be as much not mainstream as I realistically can
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tantek ok post almost done
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Loqi [indieweb] "My 2017-01-01 #IndieWeb Commitment: Own All My RSVPs To Public Events" on 2016-11-26 http://tantek.com/2016/330/b1/2017-01-01-indieweb-commitment-own-my-rsvps
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@t My 2017-01-01 #IndieWeb Commitment: Own All My RSVPs To Public Events: http://tantek.com/b/4kW1 (twitter.com/_/status/802417584218013696)
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KartikPrabhu that is one of my UI/UX issues wrt people adopting Indieiweb is that most setups want you to go into the "admin" panel to post anything
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KartikPrabhu whereas on Twitter/FB you can just post from where you are
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tantek KartikPrabhu: exactly. hence we encourage documenting such /create UIs
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KartikPrabhu what is create?
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Loqi create in the context of the indieweb refers to the act of and UI for creating a new post, in its simplest form, a new note https://indieweb.org/create
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tantek you're noting a key difference between blogs (and blogging software) of yore, vs social media sites
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KartikPrabhu yes!
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tantek also a great example why the folks saying "let's just go back to blogs and RSS" are pretty much completely missing the point of what has happened in the past 10+ years
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KartikPrabhu says YES! with hand gestures!
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tantek oh dear I just did a twitter search for blogs RSS twitter
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KartikPrabhu seems like a bad idea
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tantek yes I am saying the cpbotha article missed the point
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tantek e.g. https://twitter.com/juokaz/status/800649530630754305
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@juokaz read a post arguing blogs+RSS is a great replacement for Twitter "Let’s replace Twitter with something much better" https://cpbotha.net/2016/11/19/lets-replace-twitter-with-something-much-better/ (twitter.com/_/status/800649530630754305)
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tantek or opinions like: https://twitter.com/thesidetrack/status/800794341753102337
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@thesidetrack Appears this numbered Twitter thread thing isn't going away. Blogs are still free. RSS still exists. Get off my lawn. (twitter.com/_/status/800794341753102337)
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tantek not helping
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tantek then there's depressing things like https://twitter.com/KeywordToRSS/status/801366981555486721
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@KeywordToRSS https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CszkQ0hUEAEs949.jpg AutoPosting for BLOGGER BLOGSPOT http://autopilotblogger.fullcontentrss.com/ #blogs #tool Facebook, Google, Twitter, and Others: Start… (twitter.com/_/status/801366981555486721)
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tantek (must see the jpg for the full effect)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: so next challenge for you, come up with *your* 2017-01-01 indieweb commitment https://indieweb.org/2017-01-01-commitments
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tantek same for you bear :)
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KartikPrabhu no! I think I brought this up a long time ago; one of my friends said [paraphrsing] "so to comment on your blog post, I have to go to my own website, post a comment, and send you a webmention"
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bear I was thinking about my 01-01 commitment the other day
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KartikPrabhu tantek: noooooooooooooooo! you can't do that on Nov 26!
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tantek KartikPrabhu no re [paraphrasing]. 1. you're already on your own website because that's where you read my blog post because you have an integrated reader. 2. you post a comment right there inline. 3. your server sends the webmention automatically, there is nothing you have to do in the UI.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: because the indieweb needs YOU! :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: as I said 1. = intergrated reader is not a thing most site ahave ;)
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@planetmozilla Tantek Çelik: My 2017-01-01 #IndieWeb Commitment: Own All My RSVPs To Public Events http://tantek.com/2016/330/b1/2017-01-01-indieweb-commitment-own-my-rsvps (twitter.com/_/status/802422692238372864)
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[kevinmarks] Woodwind being intermittent is making me appreciate how much I liked the read and reply model there
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tantek KevinMarks: presumably you could deploy your own copy of woodwind since it's open source?
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KevinMarks I did try that, but had some trouble, and migrating subscriptions is manual
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KevinMarks I think that part of the problem is a database tax.
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[sebsel] !tell aaronpk seems like only #indieweb on Slack posts to IRC, the others don’t. is that a known issue?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[sebsel] I consider myself a gen2 because I’ve problems with IRC ;)
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[sebsel] but yeah, I tried switching to the Indieweb last year around this time. For me, it was Quill that made me want to have a working Micropub endpoint.
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[sebsel] having build the endpoint, I am now importing Instagram data through it.
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[sebsel] So I guess it was a bit about the features for me :o
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@schofeld @freecloud indeed. I think we may see a resurgence, hopefully with #indieweb principles baked in. (twitter.com/_/status/802473595771482112)
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@freecloud @schofeld seems Medium is trying to grab the blog space now, not sure how much #Indieweb principles are baked in there though (twitter.com/_/status/802477090146832385)
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snarfed bear: re "twitter stream to mf2/html," you can get it from https://granary-demo.appspot.com/
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snarfed or https://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ for atom
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tantek kevinmarks, sounds like you need to "own your subscriptions" perhaps by including your blog roll on your personal site, and then patch Woodwind to use it, perhaps even update it via micropub ;)
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tantek then we can re-explore the subscription reading syncing problem :)
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tantek (unless you're ok with just a stream style see what's latest experience, and in that case, owning your subscriptions (and having woodwind read / write them) is good enough)
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tantek and re: database tax
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tantek Your data should be on your website, not in someone else's database.
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tantek https://twitter.com/schofeld/status/802466091041783808
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@schofeld Blogging is dead. And yet… …the people whose insights I am the most consistently interested in all continue to maintain their own blogs. (twitter.com/_/status/802466091041783808)
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tantek and quote-reply (with interesting thread) https://twitter.com/freecloud/status/802470137047568384
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@freecloud If anything, more critical as MSM turns to clickbait chasing and SocMed to Fake News https://twitter.com/schofeld/status/802466091041783808 (twitter.com/_/status/802470137047568384)
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tantek davidmead: hey you're in here too - let's talk indieweb 2017-01-01 commitments in here! :)
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davidmead tantek - i’m finding the indieweb WP plugins don’t always play nice with each other. Missed posts, or posts are created but without “e-content” etc.
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davidmead a lot of manual cleanup
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davidmead want to try, next year, to learn more on how to join them all up and mold it to my will :-)
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tantek davidmead well you're in the right place. Probably would be helpful to even document which set of plugins you're using and what problems you've run into
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davidmead tantek - i was thinking that for a blog post. people have been great troubleshooting & fixing, but it still feels fragile
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tantek you're likely using your own unique combination that may be surfacing some bugs that various plugin developers (like GWG or pfefferle who hang out here) may not have seen, and could likely fix so that the next person doesn't run into them
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davidmead i’m sure i am a special snowflake in how i ‘expect’ things to work ;-)
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Salt davidmead, starting things like that as a gist generally makes sense to me
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davidmead on GitHub Salt?
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Salt yeah, or something like it
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Salt basically start it as a set of notes which can track revisions and have comments
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Salt rather than going straight for the blog post
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tantek makes sense
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tantek perhaps writing UIs need to adapt to include such features, tracking revisions and such
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davidmead Oh right. I normally start in Evernote and do some mapping out using Boardthing.
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davidmead Salt tantek - something like a public Basecamp message board would do the trick
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tantek_ davidmead, never sure what purpose basecamp ever served TBH
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tantek_ like a proto-Slack?
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GWG The WP scenario is an issue because different aspects are controlled by different things
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GWG For example, markup is a theme function, not a plugin function.
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KevinMarks_ A wiki page is another way to have a revision history
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davidmead tantek, keeping conversations contextual unlike things like Sharepoint/Outlook/Office docs. At least that’s how I use it
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davidmead so here’s what i have coming in/out of my blog http://boardthing.com/board/5839cf1532d3a2ed00006992
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davidmead i’ll dive a little deeper into each one and probably post this soon
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davidmead calling out plugins, services, etc.
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davidmead and then add what I want on there too :-)
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@davidmead Using Boardthing to map my data #indieweb: http://djm.click/blog/b/2j5 https://twitter.com/davidmead/status/802614908814757894/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/802614908814757894)
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