#indieweb 2017-01-13

2017-01-13 UTC
arlen, gRegorLove, Pierre-O, benwerd, snarfed and benwerd_ joined the channel
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KevinMarks_ Domains I registered through the old google.com/a short cut is now g suite and very cumbersome to renew
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KevinMarks_ I should document this with screenshots
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Loqi agreed.
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aaronpk whoa they moved the domain registration stuff to g suite tooo?
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KevinMarks_ That's where I am now redirected
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gRegorLove What's g suite?
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aaronpk oh my http://blog.app.net/2017/01/12/app-net-is-shutting-down/
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tantek wow
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tantek aaronpk: add to Upcoming on /site-deaths?
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aaronpk done
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KevinMarks_ Anyone looked at https://github.com/google/key-transparency/ yet?
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KevinMarks_ Email addresses at the base
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@sdepolo Big victory for #indieWeb, woo hoo! https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/819631854810562561 (twitter.com/_/status/819733599939227650)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Switching back to RSS" by Michael Runcieman on 2017-01-12 https://michael.runcieman.com/2017/switching-back-to-rss
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bignose do we still love Atom syndication as a standard>
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bignose do we still love Atom syndication as a standard?
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miklb does
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KartikPrabhu "we" being?
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KartikPrabhu what is atom?
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Loqi Atom is an XML format for publishing feeds that was developed as a more formally specified alternative to RSS https://indieweb.org/Atom
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-13.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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KartikPrabhu what is side-file?
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Loqi The sidefile-antipattern is a violation of the DRY principle by the use of secondary files (typically in some one-off XML format) to provide information that is a duplicate of information available in primary files on a website (in HTML), and is an antipattern due to typical DRY violation problems such as out-of-date, missing, corrupted, or outright false data https://indieweb.org/side_file
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KartikPrabhu also see ^
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aaronpk the only thing i use atom/rss for is podcast feeds because that's the industry standard for it and unlikely to change. also the only reason i feel comfortable sharing that link is because I have an XSLT file on it so that it actually looks decent when viewed in a browser as opposed to sending people a link to a pile of XML. basically making the XML file the primary content rather than a side file.
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KartikPrabhu well I generate my Atom from h-feed
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aaronpk i let granary do that for me :)
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KartikPrabhu does it do response-contexts?
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aaronpk no idea. example?
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KartikPrabhu yeah me is checking
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KartikPrabhu ooh it does
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KartikPrabhu https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=xml&url=https%3A%2F%2Fkartikprabhu.com%2Fnotes%2Fre-indiescripter-webmention
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aaronpk whoa what xml format is that?
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KartikPrabhu oops sorry
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KartikPrabhu https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=atom&url=https%3A%2F%2Fkartikprabhu.com%2Fnotes%2Fre-indiescripter-webmention
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KartikPrabhu does not do response context for Atom
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aaronpk what would that even look like?
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aaronpk embedded in the content?
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KartikPrabhu that is what I was thinking for hfeed2atom
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KartikPrabhu like append "in reply to <url>" in the content
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aaronpk i guess that would make sense
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aaronpk maybe suggest it on the granary repo?
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KartikPrabhu !tell snarfed: HOw about adding response-contexts to granary h-feed to Atom conversion?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu that way i don't have to write one in hfeed2atom and can also retire it :P
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KevinMarks_ Would a source element work for the reply context? Or is that just for reposts? https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.11
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KevinMarks_ There was a gdata way of nesting feed within feed, but it wasn't pretty. Microformats in content is probably better
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aaronpk the real question is whether any readers would do anything with it, since that's really the only reason to publish an atom/rss feed
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tantek good evening #indieweb
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tantek kinda surprised aaronpk didn't submit Webmention REC to indienews ;) (reading https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-13.html)
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aaronpk oh yeah good idea
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tantek Own all your data!
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Webmention is a W3C Recommendation" https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/6052 (from https://aaronparecki.com/2017/01/12/29/)
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miklb w00t
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Loqi yay!
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miklb GWG does bridgy publish work with posts done via micropub?
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GWG miklb, stay tuned
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GWG I want it to
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miklb ok. I guess I need to look at the micropub plugin and see if it supports syndicate-to then?
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GWG It does, there is a filter, but a syndication plugin needs to hook it
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miklb but on a positive note, I was able to post a micropub note to my new WP site, so that's good progress all things considered
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miklb thanks. I'll take a stab at it once I have the major bugs in my theme ironed out.
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miklb I also need to check my mf2 markup before I get too far into that as well
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[jeremycherfas] aaronpk Not exactly unexpected that ADN is shutting down. And Dalton’s explanation is, er, disingenuous.
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ncollig Hey everyone, I'm trying to implement h-event on the hwc.brussels website. We're using the Avada theme (not using an IndieWeb ready intentionally). Any tips on how to tackle this? I installed the IndieWeb plugins, but then not sure how to proceed or where to search for a solution.
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Loqi ncollig: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 43 minutes ago: check out https://indieweb.org/Events#May !
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j4y_funabashi morning
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Loqi guten morgen
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Zegnat ncollig, I am not familiar with WordPress. But I think one of the IndieWeb plugins gives you post-types, so if there is an event post-type, that would be the way to go.
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Zegnat Ping GWG
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Zegnat And maybe ping pfefferle - not sure who does the post-types plugin
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ncollig Zegnat: Thanks! I already installed the IndieWeb plugins, uf2, post kinds etc. With a IndieWeb compliant theme, it works, but with Avada, I create a normal post with the h-event class, but when I rsvp it doesn't seem to receive the rsvp.
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Zegnat Is it the receiving of RSVPs that doesn’t work, or the creation of the h-event?
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GWG Did someone call?
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ncollig So, I took the simple code example from http://microformats.org/wiki/h-event and copy pasted it into my WP post. The pages displays correctly. (but can I verify it's interpreted as an event?)
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Loqi h-event
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GWG I do the Post Kinds plugin. But I haven't gotten rsvp in there yet
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ncollig Hi!
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ncollig Ok
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GWG Or h-event
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ncollig Ah that's why there's no 'event' post type in the selection. :-) I was wondering.
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GWG WordPress posts are h-entry. It would require a different design.
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GWG I hope to add RSVP sooner. I am not sure when I might tackle event
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ncollig So for the moment, can we forget the idea of having a working event/rsvp setup without an IndieWeb compliant theme? (I mean, without being a developer and doing it myself)
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ncollig Or is it worth exploring the matter?
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GWG Well, if you paste the code into the content, you'd have a nested h-event inside an h-entry. Which theoretically would work
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GWG Not ideal, but..
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ncollig Yes. That's what I did. And is there a way to check if rsvp's are received and to display them on the event page?
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ncollig I rsvps to the event I created by nesting h-event in h-entry, but nothing seems to arrive on my wordpress (no comments on the post).
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GWG Yes, Webmentions and the Semantic Linkbacks plugin should receive RSVPS and add them as comments
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ncollig Right
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ncollig Any idea how to monitor why they wouldn't?
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Zegnat Hmm, yeah, even if the hwc.brussels Wordpress does not understand the RSVP, it is still an u-in-reply-to and should be picked up
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GWG Well, if a Webmention is sent, it should be, aw Zegnat said, picked up, even if incorrectly parsed
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GWG Are there comments awaiting moderation?
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ncollig No :-(
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GWG Odd.
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GWG What site is sending the RSVP?
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ncollig ncollig.net
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ncollig And as a URL to reply to, I use the wordpress generated URL, for example https://hwc.brussels/fr/event-test-2/ (page on which I'm trying the h-event now)
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Loqi [NCollig] Event Test 2 https://hwc.brussels/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/6YHluA63-150x150.jpg
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GWG And that site has Webmentions?
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ncollig Yes, it's a Known, and I have successfully used it to rsvp earlier, when testing Indieweb compliant themes on the same hwc.brussels WP
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ncollig Oh! Wait!
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ncollig Now it's working! Jeez...don't know why...except that I rsvp'd to the default page, not the /fr/ (qTranslate) page.
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Zegnat If translated versions each get their own comment thread, that would make sense
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Zegnat Doesn't make much sense for RSVPs thought. As it is the same event...
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ncollig Yeah but on the other hand, now when I load https://hwc.brussels/fr/event-test-2/ it displays the comment nontheless
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Loqi [NCollig] Event Test 2 https://hwc.brussels/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/6YHluA63-150x150.jpg
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ncollig So it seems to be the same comment feed.
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ncollig Well, one problem is out of the way, I'll test further and see if there's really a problem with translated event pages or if I did something wrong.
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Zegnat Does Wordpress not do webmentions live, but on a wpcron? Maybe the mention was received but just not handled yet.
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Zegnat GWG?
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GWG It does sending them on a wpcron, but just for background processing, no delay.
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GWG It uses the wpcron set up for Pingbacks
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ncollig Yeah, when I rsvp'd on the EN page, it seems to have picked it up immediately.
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Zegnat Then that is me officially out of ideas.
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GWG So, you want a Webmention sent to the English page to mirror to other languages?
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GWG Interesting scenario, never thought about it.
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ncollig Ideally, so that people can switch language but still see the same attending people on the event.
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GWG I will file an issue
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GWG That requires some thoughts
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ncollig So that someone visiting in FR for example can see that there are people attending, even if only EN people have rsvp so far.
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ncollig Alright
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ncollig Let me know if I can be of any help testing
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Zegnat Will you do every page in EN, FR, and NL for Brussels?
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GWG I opened an issue to discuss on the Webmention plugin Github.
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GWG If you want to add to it...
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ncollig I'll have a look! Many thanks already for your help here! \o/
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GWG I am always happy to help
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[kevinmarks] Is this Google's "though shalt not.mix languages on a page" nonsense again?
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GWG And I am curious about multi language in WordPress. Not something I have explored
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ncollig qTranslate seems to work very well for pages, but I haven't really tested with Posts, comments etc.
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ncollig What's the url of the 'official' webmention github?
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ncollig Or the one you opened an issue on...I don't find it
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cweiske w3c/webmention
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ncollig Thx!
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Zegnat KevinMarks I shall mix languages as much as I want, provided I use proper lang attributes
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[kevinmarks] Yay!
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Loqi ?
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[kevinmarks] Gwg: Stephanie Booth's Basic Bilingual plugin is a good example
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[kevinmarks] I like her framing that everyone is imperfectly multilingual
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Zegnat sebsel’s seblog.nl is a nice example of bilingual IndieWeb. Uses lang="en" on all h-entry DIVs that aren't written in Dutch.
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GWG cweiske, I opened the issue on the WordPress Webmentions plugin repo
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Zegnat KevinMarks do you have a link for her “framing”?
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GWG WordPress 4.7 did a bunch of work with locales. I want to see if any applies.
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GWG I didn't focus much on it
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KevinMarks https://youtu.be/rqJdEMeyXZc
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[dariusdunlap] I’m thinking of heading up to SF today for the Internet Archive Lunch. Anyone else want to come along? (Driving from Half Moon Bay, either via San Mateo or Pacifica.)
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[dariusdunlap] Hay! That’s Kevin Marks coming out of my speakers! :slightly_smiling_face: (stupid auto-play)
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voxpelli Zegnat: would be great to get sebsel's setup documented at http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Parse_language_information
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Loqi microformats2 parsing brainstorming
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aaronpk [dariusdunlap] I might be able to make it!
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[dariusdunlap] You know, I’m really enjoying the Ubuntu 16.04 LTS auto-updates with email notifications.
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[dariusdunlap] aaronpk - See you there. And let me know if a pickup would be helpful. Happy to go a little out of my way to give you a ride.
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[kevinmarks] Morning
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[kevinmarks] It's Gillmor Gang time
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Loqi rise and shine!
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tantek KevinMarks, Webmention!
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tantek I think that's the biggest indieweb news of the week
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tantek Plus, give the HWC Brussels folks a shout out since they're getting started
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sebsel voxpelli how should I document that? Just add myself to the list with you and Stephanie?
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tantek what is HWC Brussels?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "HWC Brussels" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek HWC Brussels is /Homebrew_Website_Club#Brussels
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Loqi ok
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tantek literally hwc.brussels
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tantek (when did cities start getting their own TLDs?!?)
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voxpelli sebsel: something like that + would be great if you could follow up some of the parser issues and give some feedback there
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sebsel tantek Amsterdam has one too!
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tantek sebsel - wat! you have hwc.amsterdam?
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sebsel voxpelli I'll start by adding myself!
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sebsel No, .amsterdam exists.
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voxpelli sebsel: ideally we could start getting readers that can be language aware and remove all content of foreign languages
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tantek sebsel oops well better get hwc. then :)
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tantek since hwc(.)nl is taken
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sebsel but we're the Netherlands now :P I'm not living in Amsterdam anymore.
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sebsel I actually registered indieweb.nl wednesday in the train to hwc. It links to .org now
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voxpelli notices hwc.events if also available
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voxpelli Would be neat to have a IndieNews style HWC catalogue
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tantek what is Netherlands?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Netherlands" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek sebsel ^^^ go for it :)
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tantek what is NYC?
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Loqi NYC is an abbreviation for New York City, a big city on the East Coast of the United States, and the location of the following IndieWebCamps: https://indieweb.org/NYC
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tantek what is SF?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/SF
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sebsel oh!
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sebsel What is The Netherlands?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "The Netherlands" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel The Netherlands is a country in Western Europe, also known as Holland or for it’s capital Amsterdam.
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Loqi ok
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sebsel Netherlands is [[The Netherlands]]
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sebsel oh no, that went wrong :(
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sebsel fixes on the wiki itself
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tantek sebsel oops I hope I did not just conflict your edit!
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sebsel oh well it's chaos now anyway
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sebsel opens new tabs
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sebsel Shouldn't the HWC page link back to those location pages?
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sebsel (it feels a bit like DRY violation this way)
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tantek sebsel yes!
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tantek the location pages are still kinda new
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sebsel they are useful I think!
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tantek I think so too, hopefully they will help with community discovery
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tantek plus it gives a little mini home page for each city to edit as they please
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tantek I mean look at how cool hwc.brussels is :)
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sebsel haha, yeah
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Loqi awesome
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gRegorLove Good morning, indieweb
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KevinMarks1 does autolink need to add .brussels?
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tantek KevinMarks: likely :) I may wait for the Brussels folks to file the issue ;)
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gRegorLove Anyone with Vine videos you want to backup, should do so before January 17. Apparently you won't be able to download them from the app after that point: http://help.vine.co/post/152688513385/discontinuing-the-vine-app-faqs Unsure if you still can from the website after that point (hopefully?)
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gRegorLove Interestingly they're updating the app on the 17th to "Vine Camera" so you can still take videos with it and post directly to Twitter or just save locally.
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gRegorLove What is Vine?
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Loqi Vine was a service for sharing six-second-long looping videos https://indieweb.org/Vine
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tantek gRegorLove: sounds like a "pivot"
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gRegorLove "Will my videos loop on Twitter? Yes! When we update the Vine app to be the Vine Camera in January, videos that are under 6.5s will loop – whether you post them from the Vine Camera or upload them directly to Twitter."
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gRegorLove Interesting feature there. Sounds like it turns Twitter into Vine, as long as you upload a video under 6.5s, from any source.
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sebsel what is hyves?
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Loqi Hyves was a social network silo, mostly popular in The Netherlands, and was discontinued in 2013 https://indieweb.org/Hyves
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sebsel tantek You might like that ^^^ :)
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@keithjgrant I somehow missed the emergence of Webmentions. Could be the key to decentralizing social networks on the web. https://indieweb.org/Webmention%23Bridgy (twitter.com/_/status/819989976641404928)
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tantek exactly
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KevinMarks1 I remeber Hyves from openSocial
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tantek also: https://twitter.com/keithjgrant/status/819989796676366336
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@keithjgrant This is huge. Really hoping to implement on my blog & do a couple write-ups in the coming months QT [@w3c] Webmention is a W3C Recommendation http://ift.tt/2jIXtN2 (twitter.com/_/status/819989796676366336)
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tantek KevinMarks how was GG?
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sebsel what is Birmingham?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Birmingham" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel Birmingham is [[homebrewbrum]]
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Loqi ok
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sebsel It's a nice idea, those location based pages... but there aren't many yet :/
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sebsel it still feels a bit wrong.
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sebsel what is San Francisco?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "San Francisco" yet. Would you like to create it?
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sebsel San Francisco is [[SF]]
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Loqi ok
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sebsel tantek: also, you just created 'HWC Brussels', shouldn't that be just 'Brussels' then?
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sebsel !meme all the wikigardening
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4mKGHDj8.jpg
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sebsel meh, know your memes :(
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tantek meme all the wikigardening!
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tantek sebsel - yes I suppose - I think I created it because I saw they had a website
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sebsel wikigarden all the things!
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4mKUptx0.jpg
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sebsel yaay
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sebsel ah and it's a redirect now anyway :/
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sebsel shall I remove the red location-links on /HWC then?
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@xtof_fr @LucBizeul merci d'être passé. Pour info mon oncle #claude vs #marcel > https://christophe.ducamp.me/2017/01/13/mon-oncle-claude #socialdesign #xfn #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/820004896980303874)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Social Importer Upgrade | Beau Lebens" https://beau.blog/2017/01/social-importer-upgrade/ (from http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/09/social-importer-upgrade-beau-lebens/)
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tantek sebsel, you can prod the leaders of each city's HWC into creating their cities :)
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tantek whoa what
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Zegnat Who's the leader of the Netherlands then, tantek?
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tantek you tell me :)
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sebsel We should fight that out in #indieweb-nl Zegnat ;)
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tantek s/leader/co-organizers
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tantek it tends to be a do-ocracy
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Zegnat Fisticuffs!
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sebsel do-ocracy is nice!
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Loqi yea
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Zegnat Oh, sebsel, I read you were sad that the Internet Archive had no Hyves backup? But I think the Archive Team might have one! I seem to recall I was running their warrior software to help them back-up Hyves.
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sebsel I see! https://archive.org/search.php?query=hyves
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GWG Good morrow
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Loqi [indieweb] "This is one of the great motivators behind the #IndieWeb movement: a place to experiment and own your content. Thanks, @rachelandrew!" by Andrew Jacobs on 2017-01-13 http://www.funwhilelost.com/2017/this-is-one-of-the-great-motivators-behind-the-indieweb
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GWG I hope to accomplish something this weekend Indieweb ish
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KevinMarks I think the php version of apache shindig came from hyves
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miklb GWG does the bridgy plugin allow for no link back or should I submit a pull request for that?
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GWG It doesn't allow per post settings, which is currently a feature request.
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miklb heads off to find git repo :-)
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GWG If you want it to never appear, there is a global setting
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miklb I'd want it on a per post option. I prefer notes to not link back, but articles to link.
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GWG miklb, I have a PR for that waiting for me
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GWG From someone. I can look to merge it.
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GWG Check my PRs
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-13.html
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GWG miklb, tell you what, I will look to merge it today
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miklb GWG oh, cool. If you'd like another test, I can try it later.
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gRegorLove GWG, miklb Bridgy does have a "maybe" option too; only include the link if the contents are truncated
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miklb I see that's an option in the pull request. I wasn't familiar with it.
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GWG miklb, I was going to make the rounds of my plugins with bugfixes now that my location project is at a stopping point before I tackled something bigger. I will just delay PRs for Micropub and handle the Bridgy Publish items on my agenda.
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GWG Besides, I still want to hook Bridgy Publish into Micropub and that would be a great advantage
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-13.html
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tantek it's after 15:00 Pacific and I don't see a tweet!
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tantek https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-13.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/820046537363292160/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/820046537363292160)
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Loqi [indieweb] "The IndieWeb and Journalism" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-01-13 http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/13/the-indieweb-and-journalism/
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Loqi [indieweb] "The IndieWeb and Journalism" by ChrisAldrich on 2017-01-13 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/the-indieweb-and-journalism-fefaa97880c3?source=rss----12b80d28f892---4
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Loqi [indieweb] "The IndieWeb and Journalism" by ChrisAldrich on 2017-01-13 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/the-indieweb-and-journalism-fefaa97880c3?source=rss------journalism-5
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Loqi [indieweb] "The IndieWeb and Journalism" by ChrisAldrich on 2017-01-13 https://medium.com/boffo-socko/the-indieweb-and-journalism-fefaa97880c3?source=rss-f9e3747f5480------2
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@ChrisAldrich The IndieWeb and Journalism: thoughts and a mini-case study http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/13/the-indieweb-and-journalism/ #journalism (twitter.com/_/status/820052654634270720)
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@ChrisAldrich @MarinaSGerner I liked your work (and your website) so much, I had to write about it: http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/13/the-indieweb-and-journalism/ (twitter.com/_/status/820055219560128512)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@MarinaSGerner I liked your work (and your website) so much, I had to write about it: http://boffosocko.com/2017/01/13/the-indieweb-and-journalism/" by Chris Aldrich on 2017-01-13 http://stream.boffosocko.com/2017/marinasgerner-i-liked-your-work-and-your-website-so-much
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@dmedialab The IndieWeb and Journalism http://twib.in/l/oazAGgBjde8a via @medium (twitter.com/_/status/820055680723931136)
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tantek chrisaldrich++ great article
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Loqi chrisaldrich has 10 karma in this channel (12 overall)
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tantek what is journalism?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "journalism" yet. Would you like to create it?