#indieweb 2018-06-16

2018-06-16 UTC
iasai, karkomah0, [tantek], KapiX, marclaporte, marclaporte1, markoong, [cjwillcock], AngeloGladding, tantek__, freescholar, renem, strugee, snarfed and eli_oat joined the channel
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Wow. Awesome. It is very preliminary now. Just collecting notes here. Haven’t gotten to Indpendent Press but it is quite popular: https://indieweb.org/User:Jgregorymcverry.com/getting-started-with-WordPress-for-beginnersalso trying to record syndication behavior here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19l28iCNAcMiwL2Tpko0GhiLVAVyl9DPltNS8ZvumwoE/edit?usp=sharing (http://jgregorymcverry.com/3596-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1007804685133271040)
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sknebel good morning indieweb!
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[jgmac1106] morning sknevel
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[jgmac1106] oops
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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jeremycherfas Morning IndieWeb sknebel [jgmac1106] Zegnat
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[jgmac1106] So I could not find a partner district to apply for my idea of using an #indieweb solution to reflection during teacher training.
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[jgmac1106] It was due when every school was in the last two weeks of the year. Too busy
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Zegnat Too bad. Real world experiments are a great base to build upon
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[jgmac1106] This one is promising: https://ies.ed.gov/funding/pdf/2018_84305A.pdf If you go to page 32 and look at reading and writing. I would think an exploratory grant around improving reading and writing outcomes using IndieWeb philosophies has potential: $1,400,000
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[jgmac1106] oops I mean it is 1.4 million a year for up to four years
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Zegnat Online reading is such an interesting subject. It always amazes me how the current digital generation seems to be so bad at finding things to read online and checking sources of things.
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[jgmac1106] That was my dissertation, we built a fake facebook and then asked kids to answer questions like , "Can a chihuahua dog cure asthma." My actual work focused on the American Revolution and having students try to evaluate research sources and trying to determine what variables best explained the most variance in measures of online research skills
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[jgmac1106] That is one of the scary trends with the rise of silos the skills of students have not improved and I am doing some work to show they are actually decreasing (though think it is more of an artifact of more users, thus a greater range of skills as well)
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Zegnat I wonder if these skills will adapt again, now that more teenagers are leaving Facebook and will actually have to learn to use “the real internet” again
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat wondering if post kinds can be an assistive tool, what if students were encouraged to write a source evaluation post and send webmentions to their peers for example
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Zegnat Google has a thing for that, I think
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[jgmac1106] what kind of machine learning models could be applied, etc
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[jgmac1106] Google is the thing for that
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[jgmac1106] nobody uses it
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Zegnat sknebel, do you remember what that source-truthfulness-reviewing-evaluating-markup was called?
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Zegnat Ironically, I can’t seem to find it using google right now. Must me searching for the wrong word combinations
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[jgmac1106] Basically performance in online reading, like all reading is first determined by prior knowledge, yet there are strange ineractions in the models around prior knowledge, and nobody has evaluation skills
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sknebel Zegnat: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/factcheck ?
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[jgmac1106] https://medium.com/digital-teaching-and-learning/small-differences-matter-the-dna-of-online-reading-comprehension-707d880959ea
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Zegnat That’s probably it! Did you still have the URL or did you remmeber the name?
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sknebel neither, googled "google source trust markup"
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[jgmac1106] -----oooh that is cool, wonder what a built in indieweb reader like solution would look like. May have just found a thread for grant narrative thanks folks
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Zegnat Argh. Why did I not get the right combination of words
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[jgmac1106] and this right here shows how reading has changed and why I argue search is more socially driven and not search engine driven now
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Zegnat [jgmac1106], it is slightly more fact-check-based than I recalled. So the markup Google talks about might be too specific for your students. But it is definitely some prior art to look at!
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[jgmac1106] Do either of you mind , even though it is Public Domain, if I direct quote this interaction in a post?
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Zegnat Not me. This is a good example of lazyweb; where a person can’t find something and asks their surrounding network to see if they can find it.
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat yes I am thinking a specific post kind called "fact check" or "source verify" I have this idea of creating a simulated environment where students come across bias read alouds (Avatars with opinions)
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sknebel nope, don't mind
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[jgmac1106] lazyweb sounds derogatory. I think social search is simply more efficient, yet it also means building communities makes one a better reader, and you build communities by reading more
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[jgmac1106] It is the Matthew Effect for the Web
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Zegnat lazyweb is a pretty accepted term if you need something for social search, just dropping it in case you didn’t know the term :)
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Zegnat Also, looks like some people may have already been working on WordPress plugins for Google’s ClaimReview: https://github.com/admataz/wp-factchecker-claim-review
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Loqi [admataz] wp-factchecker-claim-review: Wordpress plugin for adding Schema.org ClaimReview metadata to your posts
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[jgmac1106] going to try and draft a bit of the letter of intent, most IES grants you get dinged on first submission and reapply the next year, but a 3-4 million dollars for building IndieWeb stuff wouldn't be bad
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[jgmac1106] yeah never heard lazyweb in that way, good example of how prior knowledge is also about communities and how words signify membership
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jeremycherfas !tell [jgmac1106] How is it Matthew Effect for the web? In any case, if you don't like lazyweb, how about outboard brain?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jgmac1106] still trying to find my blog is my outboard brain post can't find a copy anywhere
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[jgmac1106] so Matthew Effect in regular reading is the more words you know the more you read and the more you read the more words you know. Creates a ceiling for many
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[jgmac1106] So in terms of social search the more networks you discover the more you find and the more you find the more networks you discover
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[jgmac1106] just had the idea will take time to flesh out here is a brief talk on my thinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyotVVDieFI&t=150s
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Zegnat “Dr Mac, I don’t know what I am supposed to do!” ‘Have you tried Googling? Why are you emailing me?’ - ha!
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Zegnat [jgmac1106]++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 10 karma in this channel (20 overall)
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jeremycherfas Thanks. I didn't know of that effect for more words -> more reading -> more words
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[jgmac1106] [jeremycherfas] we apply to knowledge as well (words often being proxy measure) The more you know the more you read. The more you read the more you know. Stanovich adopted if from the original sociology construct
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat, looking for my "Do Your Work" Flow chart now. somewhere on one my blogs
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jeremycherfas I know it mostly in the context of citation analysis. Also applies to some kinds of social reputation.
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[kevinmarks] !tell jgmac1106 Clive swamped Cory - clive: https://www.wired.com/2007/09/st-thompson-3/ cory: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/01/01/cory.html me citing Cory: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2005/10/tags-and-cognitive-load.html
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[kevinmarks] !tell jgmac1106 cached version of Cory's post http://mention.tech/getfromarchive?url=http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/javascript/2002/01/01/cory.html
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@oldaily Defining the IndieWeb #oldaily https://www.downes.ca/post/68231 I consider myself very firmly in the camp of the indieweb. But I wouldn't exactly say that I'm part of the indieweb community. And definitely not a citizen. So I don't define indieweb as a community. (twitter.com/_/status/1008017677523222534)
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@rubygems indieweb-post_types (0.3.0): IndieWeb Post Type Discovery for Microformats 2 JSON. https://rubygems.org/gems/indieweb-post_types (twitter.com/_/status/1008032500327899137)
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[miklb] neat
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@jgmac1106 Can the #IndieWeb Improve Better Readers and Writers Online?: http://jgregorymcverry.com/can-the-indieweb-improve-better-readers-and-writers-online/ https://t.co/XSPKVFcqJP (twitter.com/_/status/1008049845909716992)
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@jafurtado Defining the IndieWeb, By Chris Aldrich @ChrisAldrich / Boffo Socko – Medium https://medium.com/boffo-socko/defining-the-indieweb-d56e5cf4d064?source=userActivityShare-156849b30612-1529172731 (twitter.com/_/status/1008051602421354496)
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@fionajvoss Ever since I read “The Sass Jerk”, I think of it every time I feel myself getting a bit too evangelical about some tech. I think to myself, “OK, better tone it down or I’ll be the http://Micro.blog/Jekyll/RSS/IndieWeb/Ruby jerk.” http://thesassway.com/editorial/the-sass-jerk (twitter.com/_/status/1008062831793762304)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I've been looking at (your?) https://douglass.io/ project. If you can make it to IndieWebSummit, it would be a nice presentation. https://2018.indieweb.org/ @aaronpk may have some travel fund assistance if it helps to make last minute travel arrangements. (twitter.com/_/status/1008101740779114496)
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chrisaldrich What are analytics?
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Loqi analytics is the collection, analysis and reporting of a websites traffic https://indieweb.org/analytics
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chrisaldrich analytics << https://blog.kownter.com/about-kownter/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://blog.kownter.com/about-kownter/" to the "See Also" section of /website-analytics https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48786&oldid=47142
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