#indieweb 2020-05-22

2020-05-22 UTC
[tw2113], gRegorLove__, gxt__, [kimberlyhirsh], xsteadfastx, [KevinMarks], KindTwo and mauz555 joined the channel
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supernovah
I'm still banned from the php channel and I can't figure out why, it's clearly an automated bot thing, and I'm registered with nickserv... whos an admin in that channel?
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KartikPrabhu
supernovah: no one here might be in that channel
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supernovah
why
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supernovah
I know two peoples user names who are definitely in there
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KartikPrabhu
ok then they might not be on IRC right now, but doing something else
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supernovah
what do you mean o.0?
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KartikPrabhu
people don't pay attention to chats all the time. Maybe they are cooking or showering or anything else
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supernovah
KartikPrabhu: yes I'm well aware of that lol, I'm not sitting at my PC waiting to get back into the channel, I'm just curious as to why the server banned me when I /exited my client
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KartikPrabhu
all I am saying is asking that repeatedly in this channel is might not be useful/productive
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KartikPrabhu
maybe you can DM them
gRegorLove__, [snarfed], xsteadfastx, wolftune, [schmarty], KindOne, KindTwo, gRegorLove_, [prtksxna], treora, [LewisCowles], strugee, [KevinMarks], markopasha, nickodd, swentel, kensp, opal, gxt__ and jeremych_ joined the channel
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jeremycherfas
Good. morning IndieWeb
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[LewisCowles]
Good morning IndieWeb, Good morning jeremycherfas
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jeremycherfas
Good morning [LewisCowles]
neceve, loicm, anotheryou, [KevinMarks], [Murray], jeremych_, dckc, jbove, KartikPrabhu, fiatjaf, mauz555, garrettw_, sivoais and creature joined the channel
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sknebel
good morning everyone
seekr, annadane, KartikPrabhu and [LewisCowles] joined the channel
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[LewisCowles]
morning sknebel
loicm, jolvera, KartikPrabhu, seekr and dckc joined the channel
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aaronpk
twitter now shows retweets with comments if you click on โ€œretweetsโ€
wolftune, [jgmac1106], mauz555, KindOne, nickodd, [KevinMarks], i8c71c, gRegorLove, kensp, KindTwo, [email096], swentel, betodealmeida and [LewisCowles] joined the channel; i8c71c and nickodd left the channel
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betodealmeida
Hey, all! I discovered IndieWeb after reading about webmention on Hacker News. Pretty excited about it! I have written my own blog engine (called Nefelibata) which implements POSSE/backfeed, and it's fantastic to find a whole community thinking about data ownership the same way.
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betodealmeida
I've been digesting the Wiki in the past few days, and already added support for webmention to my blog.
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betodealmeida
Is there a blogroll that I can follow, of people from the IndieWeb?
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swentel
a lot of people publish indieweb related posts to that feed (using webmention)
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swentel
there's also https://stream.indieweb.org/, which I think is maintained by aaronpk
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betodealmeida
Oh, cool! Thanks, I'll check them out, and also do an introductory post mentioning the first link
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[snarfed]
ooh betodealmeida you do your own backfeed? tell us more! we don't have enough independent implementations of that
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[snarfed]
feel free to add yourself to https://indieweb.org/backfeed !
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betodealmeida
I will, I wanted to introduce myself before starting adding stuff to the Wiki :)
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betodealmeida
My blog (github.com/betodealmeida/nefelibata) publishes static files to S3, and posts to Twitter/Mastodon/WT.Social (and does webmention now). Everytime I rebuild the site it will fetch comments and replies from social media and also saves them to static files.
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[snarfed]
๐Ÿ‘‹
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betodealmeida
It worked with Facebook in the past, but they closed their API so much that I had to drop support at some point.
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[snarfed]
can't wait to see the code! especially fetching twitter replies :troll:
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[snarfed]
do you backfeed other responses? likes, retweets, quote tweets, links, mentions, etc?
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betodealmeida
Yeah, IIRC for Twitter you can't get direct replies, you need to fetch everything in filter out the ones that are actual replies...
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[snarfed]
yup. sigh
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betodealmeida
Just comments for now
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betodealmeida
And by comments I mean replies
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betodealmeida
No favorites or anything else
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annadane
don't you know? facebook is connecting the world
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annadane
that's why they close off their API
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annadane
and because of cambridge analytica now they have a totally valid reason (read: corrupt excuse) to not open things up
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betodealmeida
Yeah... but it's right there in their mission: "give people the power to share and make the world MORE OPEN AND CONNECTED". Hypocrites.
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betodealmeida
I wonder if every company grows until their mission becomes the opposite of what they do. Like Google with "do no evil".
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zootella
not every company. just the lucky/successful ones :|
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annadane
up until really recently i tended to give them the benefit of the doubt for just about everything
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annadane
and then i realized how much they're willing to do for power
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jacky
because power turns into profit and control
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[LewisCowles]
There is a slightly less pessimistic viewpoint
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[LewisCowles]
Companies have no ill-intent, but their drive to improve their product, leads to them needing more authority and autocratic control
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[LewisCowles]
What starts as ecosystems with many helping to build, achieves the success to decide that it is vulnerable to "others" within the ecosystem
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[LewisCowles]
The Japanese, I'm told embrace entropy more and instead, seek to bring new things to replace the old. I've only a few sources on this, but I like the idea, like Kaizen it seems very smart.
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betodealmeida
I also think in the begining it's useful to be open, it makes it easier to attract new people and increase adoption. As you achieve critical mass, it's easier to switch to a closed model in order to keep people locked in. The embrace/extend model has many examples: Twitter/FB used to have RSS feeds, Google chat was just XMPP, etc.
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annadane
twitter still has rss
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jacky
[LewisCowles]: there's companies who exist to either embrace, endorse or promote harm. Be it explicitly said or implicitly endorsed by their biggest consumers being the agents of it, companies are run by people who have intents.
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annadane
or at least, i can stick twitter pages into liferea and it works
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jacky
It might be hard to see which one is doing what (Microsoft versus Palantir for example) but it's not impossible
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betodealmeida
Oh, I wasn't aware Twitter still had RSS
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annadane
the fact peter thiel is affiliated with palantir and also on fb's board of directors, lol
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annadane
zuckerberg's history working with other people up until now has been: steal (or fine, borrow from) the idea for facebook from 3 people in college, then bully the instagram founders after their acquisition of instagram and lie about whatsapp saying they wouldn't be able to merge data between the systems
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annadane
i give them less benefit of the doubt than other companies
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annadane
they're successful, but i mean, how much of that is facebook specifically compared to if we committed in 2006 to make the internet federated, in order to discover people
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KartikPrabhu
this seems to be getting far away from topic. Maybe #indieweb-chat
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annadane
sorry, thought it was partially a general discussion channel
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[LewisCowles]
I think this is directly important to independence side of indieweb, but am happy to move it to chat
swentel, KartikPrabhu, [chrisaldrich], kensp, awolf, gRegorLove and [dmitshur] joined the channel; shoesandsocks left the channel
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[dmitshur]
hello. could I recruit some beta testers to try out a new experimental technology? I just got it to a working state and resolved issues I could find myself, and I wanna get some feedback from others before cleaning up the code more and publishing it.
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[dmitshur]
if you're able to try it, please let me know what your experience is. thank you!
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[dmitshur]
all you need is a browser. visit the staging instance of my site at https://dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com/issues/github.com/shurcooL/issuesapp, and try using it like any other website to navigate and read some open or closed issues. bonus points if you leave a comment or create a new issue. it's a staging instance, so it's okay to post non-sense testing stuff.
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[dmitshur]
great, that's the kind of issues I wanted to learn
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[snarfed]
dmitshur: i get a 500
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[snarfed]
heh now i get a new 500
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[dmitshur]
is there any error message in the 500? or is it a blank response?
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[dmitshur]
are you sure it's a 500 response from the server, or is there a some error in the console? if you're not sure, can you share a screenshot of what you see?
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[dmitshur]
ohh, I can reproduce it in a different browser
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[dmitshur]
hah! I wonder if it's related to GitHub itself having an incident (https://www.githubstatus.com)
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[dmitshur]
if so, this is a great chance for me to debug because that specific page is supposed to be capable of working even when GitHub is down
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[dmitshur]
ah, it might be because I still need to query GitHub's API for the number of open PRs... hmm.
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[dmitshur]
eh, given the page has "github.com/..." in it I'm not gonna try to make it work despite a github outage.
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[snarfed]
sounds fine. you'll probably want to make it fail more gracefully than hard 500 though ๐Ÿ˜
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[dmitshur]
not worth spending time on that particular page. I'm moving in the direction of not depending on GitHub at all on most pages. this is one of the few cases where there's some dependence on GH, and it will eventually be obsolete anyway.
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[snarfed]
looking good so far! minor nit, https://dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com/scratch/...$issues shows "Packages (2)," but https://dev.dmitri.shuralyov.com/scratch/... shows "Packages (4)"
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[dmitshur]
ah, good catch. that's an unfinished TODO, it should be the same number. thanks for spotting it.
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[dmitshur]
how's the overall perceived performance? slow? snappy?
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[snarfed]
heh, "snarfed.org closed this 1 second from now"
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[snarfed]
also the emoji picker seems off, it's registering different emoji than the ones i clicked on
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[dmitshur]
yeah? what browser are you using? can you show a screenshot of how it renders?
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[dmitshur]
nvm, can reproduce
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[dmitshur]
that looks like a regression... it's not happening on production version (e.g. https://dmitri.shuralyov.com/scratch/...$issues/2)
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[dmitshur]
thanks for finding, I hadn't spotted that myself
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[dmitshur]
for reference, the dev version is a complete refactor of the issue tracker to be an isomorphic app. on first page load, the page render happens on backend (as before), but subsequently it switches to rendering everything on frontend (via Go code compiled to WebAssembly). the main motivation is to enable me to do faster iteration and prototyping, and the performance goal is "not absolutely horrible", and it seem to exceed that already ๐Ÿ˜„
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[dmitshur]
ah, I think I figured out what broke the emoji picker... I added `<!doctype html>` and need to update CSS to match previous behavior.
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[dmitshur]
k, the emoji picker issue should be fixed in the latest CSS.
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[dmitshur]
thanks for your help testing Ryan!
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PDogJr
is there certain server software that one can run to listen for webmentions?
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PDogJr
I've been taking a glance at it over the past week but I still have no idea how to implement it exactly
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[snarfed]
welcome!
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[snarfed]
PDogJr: lots of tools and software on https://indieweb.org/Webmention !
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[chrisaldrich]
PDogJr, do you have a personal website?
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PDogJr
yes
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[chrisaldrich]
What's the URL? What is it built on?
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PDogJr
probably best if I don't link to it here - it's not built on anything, it's just plain HTML and CSS that I write myself
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[chrisaldrich]
Plain HTML/CSS is great.
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[chrisaldrich]
The easiest way I've seen to get something up and running may be to use webmentions.io as a third party service for receiving.
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PDogJr
thanks
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[chrisaldrich]
Sorry, make that singular....
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[chrisaldrich]
What is webmention.io?
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Loqi
webmention.io is an open-source project and hosted service for receiving webmentions and pingbacks on behalf of your indieweb site https://indieweb.org/webmention.io
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[chrisaldrich]
Naturally the page Ryan linked to will have other options too.
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[chrisaldrich]
Somewhere there's a JavaScript snippet floating around that Fluffy wrote that will allow you to display them on your site pretty quickly too.
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PDogJr
is displaying them possible without javascript? like curling some URL and saving the result as a text file, then incorporating that into the site
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[chrisaldrich]
Most of the implementations are open source, so you can always modify something preexisting. You can look at the documentation for webmention.io and build something yourself for display.
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PDogJr
all right, thanks
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[chrisaldrich]
the #indieweb-dev channel may be more appropriate if you want to delve in further....
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PDogJr
got it
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[chrisaldrich]
PDogJr, you can also delve into old IndieWeb camps in the wiki over the past several years and find recordings of sessions about building webmention implementations which you may find useful too.
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PDogJr
got it, thanks