#indieweb 2020-08-11

2020-08-11 UTC
[fluffy], JohnBeales, [tantek], wolftune, rEnr3n, KempfCreative, [tb], sp1ff, nickodd and [Jose_Leiva] joined the channel
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[Jose_Leiva] yesterday I watched the Cooking for Others session from IndieWeb Camp West 2020, and this post resonates https://ar.al/2020/08/07/what-is-the-small-web/
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Optimizing friction" https://matienzo.org/2020/optimizing-friction/
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[tantek] [Jose_Leiva] what about that concept resonates with you, differently than IndieWeb?
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sknebel Good morning Indieweb
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enpo [tantek]: When I read the article, I thought it was describing IndieWeb, just with different terms
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enpo But looking back my initial assumption might be wrong :p
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[tantek] enpo, yeah there has been some history of that sort of thing, but mostly on the "describing" and less so on the "doing", or in most cases, brief blips of doing then shutting down, history/projects here: https://indieweb.org/ind.ie
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[tantek] that page could be cleaned up a bit to more clearly show the timelines of each buzzword/project/product/shutdown
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[tantek] yeah even the dfn is out of date. fixing
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Ruxton is tehre someway I can read that Nytimes article tantek posted earlier without logging in?
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Ruxton curses the walled garden
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sknebel turn of javascript
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sknebel *off
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petermolnar > "digital veganism" -F no. Veganism is a selfish thing that doesn't take any of the bigger picture - packaging, transportation, remote environmental costs - into account.
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[tantek] that's a lot of assumptions about veganism petermolnar, a fairly inaccurate strawperson description
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[tantek] "packaging, transportation, remote environmental costs" are present in all categories of food stuffs, orthogonal to veganism
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petermolnar oh, really? No vegan I've ever met thought took any of those into account.
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petermolnar "I'm saving the planet" my ass.
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[tantek] except that the environmental costs of meat production have been documented has being orders of magnitude worse
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petermolnar you are very wrong there.
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[tantek] Guardian etc. plenty of citations for that
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[tantek] nah, search Guardian Environment Meat
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[tantek] that ought to do it
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petermolnar "meat" in terms of beef; yes. In terms of, say, sheep, it's already not true. I read those as well.
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petermolnar plus read on the effects of palm oil, "superfoods", coconut fat, etc. and the effects of those on the environment they're growing them in
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petermolnar in chinese, the word "meat" assumes pig, and with pig, the environmental cost is far, far, far less, than cows.
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[tantek] still far far far greater than plants and plant-based products
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[tantek] cows are worse than pigs yes, however pigs and other land meat are still far worse than plants
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[tantek] water use, CO2 output, methane output
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[tantek] per calorie, per protein, per person consumption, however you want to measure it. all very bad in comparison
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petermolnar [tantek]: you are wrong. Please read more.
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petermolnar plants have environmental cost: they need a LOT of space and soil.
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[tantek] have read plenty, gave you search terms to look it all up. wikipedia has many more
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[tantek] speaking in absolute terms "x has y" is irrelevant
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[tantek] this is a relative comparison
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sknebel -> -chat please
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[tantek] thanks sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (43 in all channels)
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[tantek] getting back on topic, I did a pass on https://indieweb.org/ind.ie to update it according to current product and dfn on the ind.ie site, and then collected past products into a roughly time ordered list in a separate section
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[tantek] what is ind.ie
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Loqi Ind.ie (AKA Small Technology Foundation) is currently (2020) a corporation of two designers who build things, some of which overlap & align with IndieWeb principles https://indieweb.org/ind.ie
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[tantek] ^^^ those of you familiar with indie and its history, please review. thanks
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[tantek] enpo, reload the page on /ind.ie and see if it is more readable / understandable now
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petermolnar re ind.ie: I'd delete the whole page, and keep that it's not us
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petermolnar (ind.ie: a two person vaporware manufacture, who lately finally released some things, like their now disfunct adblocker and site.js)
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enpo [tantek]: Yes. Thanks for clarifying :)
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[KevinMarks] pdf << Unfit for Humans https://www.nngroup.com/articles/pdf-unfit-for-human-consumption/
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Loqi ok, I added "Unfit for Humans https://www.nngroup.com/articles/pdf-unfit-for-human-consumption/" to the "See Also" section of /2014/PDF https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72019&oldid=67509
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ndegruchy Seems like petermolnar is a bit bitter about ind.ie. I enjoy their work, what has been released anyway.
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petermolnar bitter? No. Realistic. Aral promised the moon and the stars, and delivered a bucket of sand.
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[Jose_Leiva] btw, thanks for the link and the clarification, I’m still learning concepts
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[snarfed] condolences to [tantek] and any other mozillians here 😢 https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2020/08/11/changing-world-changing-mozilla/
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[tantek] Wow.
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[tantek] not sure what impact (if any?) it'll have on IndieWeb, so happy to take it to chat as more likely off topic than not
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mefistofeles that can'tbe good news... a bit sad
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[tw2113] why is it PRs like this are always hard to parse for what’s actually going on?
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[tw2113] so downsizing and refocusing on some new things?
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[snarfed] yup. probably not too mozilla specific either. covid hit the ads business pretty hard, at least initially, and historically moz’s revenue has been largely ads
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[fluffy] This is such terrible news and it keeps happening. :( I really wish the dotcom billionaires would donate money to the company that made their ridiculous lifestyles possible in the first place.
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[tantek] Definitely ok to take this to chat. And thanks [fluffy]
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mefistofeles [tantek]: when you refer to take it to "chat", what do you mean exactly?
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[fluffy] The unlogged/off-the-record #indieweb-chat channel
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[tantek] mefistofeles fair question. "chat" in this context is often a shorthand for https://indieweb.org/discuss#indieweb-chat_channel
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mefistofeles ah ok, nice, thanks
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mefistofeles I'm new around here
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[tantek] welcome! how did you find us?
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mefistofeles [tantek]: I've always liked the idea of the indieweb, I even supported some local initiative called "indieweb + science"
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mefistofeles and been on freenode for many years
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mefistofeles actually I don't really know why I didn't join before haha
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jbove [fluffy]: I share that wish with you.
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jbove Welcome mefistofeles !
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jbove Great nick. I hope you're a good hearted demon :-)
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jbove > Mephistopheles is a demon featured in German folklore.
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jacky !tell [schmarty] someone replied to your post on Lobsters some time ago https://lobste.rs/s/2kb9qt/what_we_talk_about_when_we_re_talking_about#c_trowmt
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel https://india.googleblog.com/2020/08/introducing-people-cards-virtual.html
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jacky ayee G+ coming back as a first class function of Search
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sknebel I don't remember, G+ "only" showed author cards in normal search y right?
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[Emma_Humphries] Hey folks.
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jacky IIRC yeah
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[Steve_Song] Hi all. Pointed here by [tantek] (thank you!) I am a half-time fellow at the Mozilla Foundation working on affordable access to internet.
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[KevinMarks] Lol. That is literally the pitch for my original Google profiles project in 2007
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[KevinMarks] I bet they leave out the microformats this time
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[schmarty] Thanks for the heads-up, jacky ! I'm trying to decide now whether to make a lobste.rs account to respond with ways to make the static build take less resources and time
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[KevinMarks] https://searchengineland.com/google-profile-results-launched-17865
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Two PSAs regarding IndieAuth" https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/6265-Two-PSAs-regarding-IndieAuth
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[tantek] Welcome [Emma_Humphries] and [Steve_Song]!
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[cleverdevil] \\ a wild cleverdevil appears \\
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[cleverdevil] Hey folks! Long time no chat 🙂
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[cleverdevil] Just wanted to pop in, say "hello" and that I miss you all and sorry I have been absent for the past 3-4 months! I miss y'all.
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ndegruchy Hey, [cleverdevil]
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[cleverdevil] waves
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jacky I saw that pie [cleverdevil], I'd disappear for a few months too :) looks good
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[cleverdevil] Haha, it was good [jacky]! I only have about a third of it left.
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[cleverdevil] Breakfast pie FTW 😄
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[manton] Hi [cleverdevil]!
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[cleverdevil] Hey [manton]! How is it going? All seems to be well in Micro.blog land 🙂
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[cleverdevil] That reminds me, my wife gave me another idea for an app that I think would be *perfect* for Micro.blog.
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[cleverdevil] If I had time to work on it, I absolutely would.
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[cleverdevil] TL;DR – a way for students adapting to the remote-learning lifestyle to keep a journal.
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[cleverdevil] (Integrated automatically with their school schedules, so they can "check-in" to a particular class or assignment, upload photos and commentary, and generally track what they're up to.)
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GWG [cleverdevil]: Hi!!!
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[cleverdevil] Hey @GWG!
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GWG I've noticed your absence. Glad to see you return...hope it persists
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[cleverdevil] My free time took a bit of a nose dive with COVID... I took on a significant bump in responsibility at work, and its been a lot.
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[cleverdevil] Things are trending up, though :0
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GWG [cleverdevil]: Hope it came with other benefits.
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[cleverdevil] Yeah, totally.
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[snarfed] [cleverdevil] i can commiserate
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[snarfed] good problems, but still
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[cleverdevil] Also, good to see you [snarfed] :)
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[snarfed] you too!
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[cleverdevil] Honestly, its been really great overall. Just a lot to handle. I effectively took on management of over half the company, and we navigated the current situation well. Now starting to emerge a bit. Was able to bring on some help, and things are in a much better place.
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GWG [cleverdevil]: Glad to hear it