#indieweb 2020-08-11

2020-08-11 UTC
[fluffy], JohnBeales, [tantek], wolftune, rEnr3n, KempfCreative, [tb], sp1ff, nickodd and [Jose_Leiva] joined the channel
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[Jose_Leiva]
yesterday I watched the Cooking for Others session from IndieWeb Camp West 2020, and this post resonates https://ar.al/2020/08/07/what-is-the-small-web/
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Optimizing friction" https://matienzo.org/2020/optimizing-friction/
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[tantek]
[Jose_Leiva] what about that concept resonates with you, differently than IndieWeb?
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sknebel
Good morning Indieweb
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enpo
[tantek]: When I read the article, I thought it was describing IndieWeb, just with different terms
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enpo
But looking back my initial assumption might be wrong :p
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[tantek]
enpo, yeah there has been some history of that sort of thing, but mostly on the "describing" and less so on the "doing", or in most cases, brief blips of doing then shutting down, history/projects here: https://indieweb.org/ind.ie
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[tantek]
that page could be cleaned up a bit to more clearly show the timelines of each buzzword/project/product/shutdown
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[tantek]
yeah even the dfn is out of date. fixing
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Ruxton
is tehre someway I can read that Nytimes article tantek posted earlier without logging in?
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Ruxton
curses the walled garden
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sknebel
turn of javascript
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petermolnar
> "digital veganism" -F no. Veganism is a selfish thing that doesn't take any of the bigger picture - packaging, transportation, remote environmental costs - into account.
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[tantek]
that's a lot of assumptions about veganism petermolnar, a fairly inaccurate strawperson description
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[tantek]
"packaging, transportation, remote environmental costs" are present in all categories of food stuffs, orthogonal to veganism
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petermolnar
oh, really? No vegan I've ever met thought took any of those into account.
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petermolnar
"I'm saving the planet" my ass.
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[tantek]
except that the environmental costs of meat production have been documented has being orders of magnitude worse
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petermolnar
you are very wrong there.
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[tantek]
Guardian etc. plenty of citations for that
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[tantek]
nah, search Guardian Environment Meat
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[tantek]
that ought to do it
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petermolnar
"meat" in terms of beef; yes. In terms of, say, sheep, it's already not true. I read those as well.
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petermolnar
plus read on the effects of palm oil, "superfoods", coconut fat, etc. and the effects of those on the environment they're growing them in
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petermolnar
in chinese, the word "meat" assumes pig, and with pig, the environmental cost is far, far, far less, than cows.
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[tantek]
still far far far greater than plants and plant-based products
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[tantek]
cows are worse than pigs yes, however pigs and other land meat are still far worse than plants
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[tantek]
water use, CO2 output, methane output
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[tantek]
per calorie, per protein, per person consumption, however you want to measure it. all very bad in comparison
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petermolnar
[tantek]: you are wrong. Please read more.
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petermolnar
plants have environmental cost: they need a LOT of space and soil.
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[tantek]
have read plenty, gave you search terms to look it all up. wikipedia has many more
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[tantek]
speaking in absolute terms "x has y" is irrelevant
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[tantek]
this is a relative comparison
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sknebel
-> -chat please
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[tantek]
thanks sknebel++
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Loqi
sknebel has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (43 in all channels)
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[tantek]
getting back on topic, I did a pass on https://indieweb.org/ind.ie to update it according to current product and dfn on the ind.ie site, and then collected past products into a roughly time ordered list in a separate section
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[tantek]
what is ind.ie
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Loqi
Ind.ie (AKA Small Technology Foundation) is currently (2020) a corporation of two designers who build things, some of which overlap & align with IndieWeb principles https://indieweb.org/ind.ie
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[tantek]
^^^ those of you familiar with indie and its history, please review. thanks
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[tantek]
enpo, reload the page on /ind.ie and see if it is more readable / understandable now
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petermolnar
re ind.ie: I'd delete the whole page, and keep that it's not us
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petermolnar
(ind.ie: a two person vaporware manufacture, who lately finally released some things, like their now disfunct adblocker and site.js)
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enpo
[tantek]: Yes. Thanks for clarifying :)
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