#indieweb 2020-12-04

2020-12-04 UTC
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[chrisaldrich] I have to say it's nice that I've got a permalink on my site to my avatar and uploading a new one at that url changes it in multiple places (but also shouldn't cause issues with people who are hotlinking that url).
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[chrisaldrich] Now I've got to double check a few additional places that should be using that URL but may not be...
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[chrisaldrich] I've just seen my second or third tweet about people seeing way more adds in their timeline on Twitter this week. The best commentary on it so far: https://twitter.com/shellen/status/1334598725096808450
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@shellen @EthanZ Everyone is seeing this. It’s like a year end sale but we are the ones for sale. (twitter.com/_/status/1334598725096808450)
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aaronpk oh huh twitter is getting rid of their threaded reply display https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/3/22150448/twitter-thread-replies-off-update-conversations
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "IndieAuth Spec Updates 2020" https://aaronparecki.com/2020/12/03/1/indieauth-2020
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aaronpk well that was fun
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[schmarty] ooh aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (230 in all channels)
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vilhalmer aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 35 karma in this channel over the last year (231 in all channels)
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alex11 did anyone else from last night's call listen to any of the IA presentation from tonight?
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[schmarty] last night's HWC: no. Tonight's dweb meetup hosted by the internet archive: yes!
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alex11 do we feel the indieweb could work with the IA's decentralization web stuff?
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk++ for completing NaNoWriMo with that one post! Serious work. (Probably deserves a weeks worth of space on the gift calendar...)
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Loqi aaronpk has 36 karma in this channel over the last year (232 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] Several of us here attended the first DWeb event at the Archive
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[KevinMarks] Thorough principles https://www.manifestno.com/
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alex11 if anyone is interested in a summary from last night's IA dweb meeting https://horacioh.github.io/braindump/2020-12-dweb-meetup
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[tantek] neat. thanks for sharing! sounds like the Beaker talk was quite interesting and had good insights to share
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alex11 it was cool to see so many interesting people
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alex11 the two communities should think about collaborating
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maxwelljoslyn alex11++ for sharing. that Braid.js stuff is funky as heck. lahacker can you make use of that somehow?
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Loqi alex11 has 2 karma over the last year
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alex11 i know at least one person is coming to next week's americas meeting
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[snarfed] alex11 agreed! KevinMarks is right, we’ve been before and know the people there pretty well. we’ve given indieweb talks at multiple dweb summits: https://indieweb.org/Decentralized_Web_Summit#Past_Events
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[snarfed] they seem to be a bit more interested in technical focused projects (eg blockchain, mesh networks, etc), as opposed to more community and social oriented ones like indieweb. but they definitely know and like us, and vice versa!
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lahacker yeah i really enjoyed hanging out in gather.town last night getting to know some of the regulars in that commnuity
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lahacker there really is a mutual respect and yes the primary author of braid will try to make next HWC Americas to talk about how his HTTP extension spec can apply to bloggers
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[tantek] has the "dweb" community actually converged? in all my past interactions in/with "dweb" events, there were always a number of different semi-isolated communities that didn't really talk a lot with each other
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[tantek] alex11, curious, what gave you a sense of cohesion that would make you characterize it as "the two communities"?
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alex11 oh just that i feel they're interested in the same things
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lahacker our absense is felt
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lahacker *absence..
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alex11 there were 12 presentations last night (i think) and i don't know what it was like in the past but i definitely think they can collaborate with each other and with the indieweb as well, there's potential
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lahacker Frazee put it best; paraphrasing "the IndieWeb just doesn't have anyone coming to push it"
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[tantek] maybe we don't feel a need to push it?
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alex11 it shouldn't be forced, it's just important that indieweb is aware of ia and ia is aware of indieweb
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aaronpk maybe we've never been asked?
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[tantek] ia?
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alex11 internet archive
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[tantek] what is internet archive
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Loqi The Internet Archive is a non-profit organization that is building a digital library, including archival copy of much of the public web https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive
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[tantek] ^ we're aware 🙂
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lahacker twelve monocultures come together and they have to jump over backwards to interoperate
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[tantek] that dfn could be updated to have direct indieweb relevance tho
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[tantek] lahacker++ exactly that
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Loqi lahacker has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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lahacker so it's interesting; the lack of incentive to "send someone" or "have someone represent us" is such a powerfully "decentralizing" concept
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aaronpk true
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lahacker and i think it speaks to why /we've/ never been asked; who? and grappling with the answer to that question kinda drives the previous point home
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aaronpk and at the same time, we see people giving talks about the indieweb at other events, sometimes even from people who have never shown up in chat
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lahacker yeah i find that long tail of total strangers really warming
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[tantek] indeed lahacker
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[tantek] in this way, the indieweb is working much more prefiguratively as a community than "dweb"
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alex11 in-dweb
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alex11 /pun
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[tantek] alex11, note the differences in your statement: "indieweb is aware of ia and ia is aware of indieweb". one is an actual 100% virtual/online distributed/decentralized community. the other is a centralized non-profit that has singular physical presence.
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[snarfed] also, to reiterate what i mentioned earlier, we have sent ourselves (and/or been asked) to dweb summits multiple times to represent indieweb. https://indieweb.org/Decentralized_Web_Summit#Past_Events
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[tantek] indeed!
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[KevinMarks] so is Beaker doing actual websites now and not the weird js-based stuff?
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[KevinMarks] because if so, the indieweb building blocks might fit in better than before
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alex11 well anyway it was just a suggestion
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alex11 i don't know the history of all this
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[tantek] alex11, WDYT of the history that snarfed linked to?
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alex11 yeah, i see that there's been some 'representatives' sent
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[KevinMarks] I spent a chunk of time with the archive folks a few years back, but it's harder no longer being able to visit the building
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[schmarty] KevinMarks: one of the things pfrazee said of the new release of Beaker was (paraphrasing) "we want it to do distributed websites well so the focus is on that"
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[KevinMarks] right, I read that in the summary - I should watch the presentation and try beaker again.
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[tantek] KevinMarks, anything persistent come out of that from the archive folks?
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[tantek] Projects shouldn't depend on any one person having to visit an in-person centralized office in order to keep them going
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[tantek] that's completely unsustainable
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[schmarty] that's in the context of dropping a lot of the built-in social networking features. looking over the current docs it is still very focused on in-beaker apps ... because there's no real servers to speak of.
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[KevinMarks] I was trying to get them to release the hash to url index they built as a step towards content-based web.
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[KevinMarks] the demo I built is still up http://svgshare.com/dweb
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[KevinMarks] their hashes are sha1, which isn't ideal, but they did build an inverted index of them
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lahacker for a little bit of context; i found alex11 in gather.town++ within minutes of the end of the zoom conference; we chatted for a second, WASD'd around for a few minutes, observed others and rather quickly found ourselves in one video "huddle" and people came and went; alex what did you think of that experience? we didn't move our avatars all night but the conversation stayed rather dynamic
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alex11 yeah, after the 9 hour discursion on CRDTs we got somewhere :P
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alex11 nah, it was interesting
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[schmarty] i walked through gather.town but my partner was watching TV and i wasn't exactly dressed for camera so i bailed.
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alex11 i had a good time hearing about the ways people thought even if much of the technical discussion i was unfamiliar with
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[schmarty] gather.town is just like real life: i get socially anxious, lurk awkwardly, and run away!
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alex11 it was my first time on it so the first 5 minutes were super confusing
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alex11 "what do i dooooo, where is everybodyyyy, heeeeelp"
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alex11 btw lahacker someone posted a summary of what happened; https://horacioh.github.io/braindump/2020-12-dweb-meetup
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alex11 i know it was hard for me to remember all the projects as they were being presented, a lot to take in, who's associated with what project etc
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alex11 i joined a few discords today of their projects
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[tantek] alex11, it'll be interesting to check back in 6 months and see if any of those projects "stuck" with you, like are you still using them, how often, for what purpose, day to day? etc.
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alex11 ia supposedly doesn't really have irc channels from what i can gather? only a few low-activity matrix rooms
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alex11 not sure if the dweb does
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[KevinMarks] they have a slack for dweb
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alex11 lmao
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alex11 sigh
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[schmarty] they have (or had?) a matrix room after the first decentralized web summit. i used to lurk there when i had a matrix homeserver. it was long periods of silence followed by alt-right randos demanding censorship-proof websites 😂
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alex11 yeah unfortunately any decentralized web is going to get those types of people
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[schmarty] of the dweb lightning talks last night i am the most interested in agregore, i think. i rambled about it in #indieweb-dev yesterday.
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lahacker gather.town++ *is* like real life; simple, powerful
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Loqi gather.town has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[schmarty] very neat minimal browser designed to encourage building local-first web apps but also supports a handful of decentralized protocols by abstracting them as if they were HTTP.
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lahacker mauve joined the chat at one point to talk about agregore
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alex11 i didn't understand that you hear/see people in a localized area
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alex11 so i was trying to 'find the zoom room' because i assumed it was all one call
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alex11 they have some other event later in december but i don't know what it is and there's a mailing list that i don't have
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alex11 maybe i'll ask the braid person on wednesday if he knows
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[KevinMarks] re 'those types of people' - https://sirfrogsworth.tumblr.com/post/636498678889185280/sirfrogsworth-sirfrogsworth-solid-rules-no
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alex11 but yeah, highly enjoyable evening, i really enjoyed it
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alex11 i just said enjoyed twice didn't i
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alex11 uh... insert synonym here
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