#indieweb 2021-03-09

2021-03-09 UTC
really2, [chrisaldrich], really21 and anon_jasrjfbq joined the channel
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anon_jasrjfbq Hi everyone, is this the right place to get an opinion on how to structure my atom/rss feed?
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aaronpk Loqi!
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aaronpk bad Loqi
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aaronpk turns off Loqi's spam filters
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aaronpk Loqi didn't like the super long message immediately after joining
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[tantek] atom/rss opinions are more for #indieweb-dev tho
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Loqi ATOM, RSS... it looks like this conversation is getting pretty technical, can you take it to #indieweb-dev?
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anon_jasrjfbq hi again
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[tantek] 😄
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[tantek] ^ that's a great false positive aaronpk 😂
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anon_jasrjfbq ok going to ask over there
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[tantek] :thumbsup_all:
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maxwelljoslyn a touching, gripping, dramatic tale of joining the indieweb and forgetting all about it:
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maxwelljoslyn https://aaronstrick.com/posts/darth-skivin-and-indie-web
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maxwelljoslyn see also, my reply: https://www.maxwelljoslyn.com/poems/darth-skivin-still-livin
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[tantek] maxwelljoslyn++ that is such a great example of outreach. well done 😭
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Loqi maxwelljoslyn has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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[tantek] unrelated: apparently the whole "don't tell me your life story" thing about recipes is a thing that's been around a while: https://sf.eater.com/2021/3/8/22319952/restaurant-stories-indoor-dining-robots
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[tantek] it makes me wonder about the impedance mismatch here between publishers and readers, is this just about recipes or is there something broader here?
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maxwelljoslyn Thanks Tantek. Reaching in the outward direction is basically my life quest
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maxwelljoslyn RE 'life story' recipes: my understanding was that it's an SEO thing ... or at least was originally. Plus some small % of people just drongin' it up including whatever the heck they like in their recipes
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maxwelljoslyn One major selling point of IW is lowering the impedance mismatch, as you put it, bc publishing on a platform/silo encourages publisher to conform too that silo's expectations, even if only in small ways... and those exp'ns may not be same as what reader desires
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maxwelljoslyn I feel the life stories could be made non-annoying for 'just give me recipe' readers by putting the life story into a <details> ... IF <details> were searchable which they aren't, yet. so that wouldn't fulfill SEO incentives, nor "time on site" metrics
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maxwelljoslyn So sad. Clash of desirs.
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[tantek] Indeed
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KartikPrabhu maxwelljoslyn++\
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Loqi maxwelljoslyn has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
anon_jasrjfbq, [Forest_Johnson], gRegorLove, supercoven, astronavt___, lelman1, jacky_, lmorchard68, KartikPrabhu1, patcoll_, oodani_, rektide_, kiero_, micro_, leo60228-, deltab_, Aleksander, rhiaro_, treora_, strugee, seekr, [chrisaldrich], really2 and [scojjac] joined the channel
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[scojjac] maxwelljoslyn super cool - also digging the simplicity of yours and Aaron's sites
shoesNsocks, micro, gRegorLove, bltavares, [tantek], supercoven_ and maxwelljoslyn joined the channel
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maxwelljoslyn Thanks scojjac.
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theshawe Thanks: KartikPrabhu . I'll also check out #dev :)
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theshawe Thanks: KartikPrabhu . I'll also check out #dev :)
samwilson1, [Murray], bltavares_, [tantek], astroanax, astroanax_, unrelentingtech, [fluffy], ShadowKyogre, anon_jasrjfbq, [scojjac] and [chrisaldrich] joined the channel; ShadowKyogre left the channel
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[chrisaldrich] Thinking about recipes, a lot of our food culture revolves around "performance" and "aspiration" in these areas. We've turned food and recipes into entertainment when some (many?) of us "Just want the facts, ma'am."
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[chrisaldrich] Most of the recipes I've posted (both publicly and privately) on my site are the bare minimum to recreate a dish with a few photos usually to demonstrate mise-en-place or technique.
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[chrisaldrich] For example, too many recipes, cookbooks, etc. will tell you to cut butter into flour until it's pea-sized or it looks like cornmeal, but it would help many immensely to see an up close photo of it as well as photos of what it should look like when rolled out and then comparisons of what the end product looks like when baked. (This is especially true when you're making something for the first time and technique can make a huge difference.)
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[chrisaldrich] I'd love to see more messy-kitchen recipes about process and actually making the thing than the perfectly gorgeous staged photos. This also circles back to IndieWeb with our focus on eating what you cook. Too often I see cooks (aka kitchen developers) who are posting/talking about what one should cook (build), but I get the distinct impression that they're not actually cooking for themselves.
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[chrisaldrich] Loqi unroll please...
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[tantek] lol
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] agreed, there's almost a need for "subrecipes"
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[tantek] like I've baked pies with premade pie crust because I was starting out and wanted to minimize the time / risk / learning curve. eventually though I'd appreciate if that was a subrecipe
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[tantek] similarly for a lot of spice preparation
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[tantek] also if you cook a consistent "style" of cuisine, a lot of the preparatory steps are shared, and could be abstracted into recipe "subroutines"
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[tantek] IANAL but I really don't get the whole "can't copyright a recipe thing" because obviously you can copyright a computer program
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[tantek] like what would happen if you wrote a recipe as a series of steps to execute in JS?
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[tantek] taking that thread to #indieweb-dev 🙂
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[chrisaldrich] Some of this reminds me of Peter Hertzmann's book 50 Ways to Cook a Carrot (https://bookshop.org/a/17195/9781909248632), which while seemingly ridiculous is really about techniques and focusing on how to do them with a single ingredient.
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[chrisaldrich] For example, once you know how to fricassee a carrot, it's much easier and more creatively flexible to fricassee any other ingredients you might have on hand. I'm curious what an IndieWeb version of this book would look like.
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jacky [chrisaldrich]: that's an interesting idea
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[scojjac] Recipes vs software - I think it comes down to what a court considers creative expression. Ingredients and steps are procedural and a statement of fact. Apparently only "expressive" parts of software are copyrightable, vs parts that are functionally driven by efficiency, standardization.
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[scojjac] Chris I agree about messy process pics - sometimes descriptions of what things should look or feel like leave me more confused
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[scojjac] I just don't do it because when I'm in the middle of cooking or baking, I can't be bothered to pic up my phone to take pictures
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petermolnar erm... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26401955 is #1 on HN
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petermolnar "brace, brace".
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Loqi [bezelbuttons] Webmention.io
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aaronpk ugh the last thing i need is more users of that 😂
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aaronpk what I really want to do is rebuild it as a single-user service, drastically simplified internally, with a decent UI for managing the webmentions received, then make it super easy to deploy on Linode/Heroku/etc
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aaronpk uhoh too much jargon
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[scojjac] Please take this discussion to #indieweb-dev 😉
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aaronpk you can watch Loqi's jargon detector here https://loqi.me/jargon/
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[scojjac] Interesting! I don't know what possessed me to go with Linode instead of something like Dreamhost
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petermolnar > make it super easy to deploy - magic word: single binary. (Or appimage, flatpak, etc)
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Loqi hey aaronpk, petermolnar: we try to keep jargon out of this channel to make it more inviting to newcomers, can you move this to #indieweb-dev?
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petermolnar pfff
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[scojjac] But I got a Calibre server running on it - cool concept but I don't use it. I would actually like it better if it was just a way for people to browse my shelves
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[KevinMarks]1 Silo fail of the day https://twitter.com/MaryRobinette/status/1368990745823215616?s=20
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@MaryRobinette It's an unfortunate fact of the publishing industry that targeted online harassment not only happens, but happens frequently. Often, groups will use online activity to track and dox people. Last week, @Reddit announced a change making it even easier for predators to do this. (twitter.com/_/status/1368990745823215616)
ShadowKyogre, [Murray], [scojjac], [snarfed], jigawatt, [fluffy], samwilson and Yoplala[m] joined the channel; ShadowKyogre left the channel
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jacky wow [JB Rubinovitz], I think I recognize you from Interact!