#indieweb 2021-07-14

2021-07-14 UTC
samwilson, vilhalmer, capjamesg, hendursa1, Tomte, neceve, [KevinMarks], _jon, Moosadee, hendursaga, n8chz, n8chz1, [fluffy], [jacky], [tantek], KartikPrabhu, [aciccarello] and [schmarty] joined the channel
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petermolnar I'll bring this out of -chat:
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petermolnar what is story?
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Loqi A story is a singular (one per profile) time stream collection post, that consists of ephemeral photo and video posts that are shown in sequence one at a time and disappear from the collection some time after being added, usually 24 hours https://indieweb.org/story
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petermolnar what is ephemeral?
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Loqi Expiring content is content that is only temporarily (ephemerally) relevant, and also part of a larger post, that can and should be (preferably automatically) removed once a particular datetime has passed (the expiration date) https://indieweb.org/ephemeral
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petermolnar question: why is not being temporarily relevant a requirement for a story?
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petermolnar or is it?
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[jacky] it's not
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[jacky] On IG, some stories can be preserved (as a moment) so I guess it's like it's both for a point of time but 'captured' outside of that
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[jacky] tbh you could consider stories a particular channel on a site and the main one that you see to be one that enforces the expiry
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aaronpk one of the other aspects is the UI of how they're presented... stories are grouped by person, so you see a single person's series of stories before going on to the next person, which is completely different from individual post time ordering like traditional feeds
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aaronpk so it's a lot more person-centric than feed- or post-centric
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petermolnar > like traditional feeds - I'm going to chanllenge you there: traditional feeds are RSS, and that may or may not be a single person, because it depends on the feed reader UI.
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aaronpk that doesn't have anything to do with it
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petermolnar it does.
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petermolnar you're saying traditional feed is mixed, I'm saying, it depends on what you call traditional
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petermolnar to me, my traditional feed reader from 15 years ago is Thunderbird
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petermolnar and that didn't have a merged view at all
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petermolnar so every feed was it's own representation and the entries in there were up to the source - which were mostly personal sites
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aaronpk so it's feed-centric
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aaronpk that's my point, none of them were person-centric
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petermolnar it was, if the feed itself was person centric - yes, I know it was a different world.
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petermolnar do you consider the h-feed of aaronparecki.com a person-centric one?
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Loqi petermolnar: it looks like this conversation is getting pretty technical (RSS, Microformats), can you take it to #indieweb-dev?
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petermolnar sit down, Loqi
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aaronpk i would argue that at that time, feeds were more "publications" than "people"
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petermolnar are personal sites people?
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aaronpk i do consider my home page person-centric, but my site in its current form was not created 15 years ago
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aaronpk so it's heavily influenced by later trends in social media
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aaronpk and when I did have a personal blog 15 years ago, it was not something I considered "me"
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petermolnar well, whatever was on my site many moons ago was my content, so I'd certainly classify it as people centric
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aaronpk it was a publication
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petermolnar what is a publication?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "publication" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "publication is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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petermolnar when is it a publication and when is it a "me" content?
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jacky that reads more of a semantic classification thing versus a objective qualifier no?
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petermolnar ok, let's go to something more specific: photos. When is a photo post a "me" post and when is it a publication? Do I have to be on the photo, or can it be a landscape to be a "me" content?
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aaronpk it's not about the individual posts, it's about how you treat the whole collection of posts
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jacky that's still semantic no?
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jacky yeah
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aaronpk like almost whether you're treating it as a business
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aaronpk of course there were plenty of early blogs from people writing about their own lives, but even if you go look at screenshots of old readers the feeds in the sidebar are not just personal blogs even if they were written by one person
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petermolnar > feeds in the sidebar are not just personal blogs - I never said only personal
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aaronpk exactly :)
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petermolnar I don't see the logic in your semantic aaronpk. I look at a FB feed of a person: random things. Sometimes about them, sometimes about stuff. FB stories? Random stuff.
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aaronpk again, it's not about the content, it's about how it's presented
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aaronpk readers: lists of posts, usually time ordered, sometimes interleaved from sources between feeds
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aaronpk stories: a row of profile icons, when tapped play a series of posts from that one person
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petermolnar I honestly don't see how the second is different from clicking a single feed in a feed reader, because the layout of posts depends on the UI of the reader settings.
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aaronpk a big difference is feeds in feed readers are labeled with text
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petermolnar "no title"
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petermolnar or, they aren't even labelled; again depends on the reader
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aaronpk this is mostly a pointless discussion anyway because the old feed readers fell out of style ages ago and were replaced with social media feeds which I am pretty sure we would both agree are fundamentally different than both
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petermolnar Whereas the current indieweb story definition refers to a very specific UI and not the aforementioned set of (anti?)features.
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petermolnar ok, why I'm arguing: story, as in IG is a *set* of things: (assume "nearly always" for each): ephemeral - 24h -, their creator considers them throwaway, and it's usually an "augmented" photo. How you can read them, is, in my opinion a reader UI perspective, and there are many ways to achieve that.
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petermolnar all because of the person centric representation approach
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aaronpk the only thing missing from that definition that i see is the fact that often photos will have stickers/text on them
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petermolnar that's the "augmented" :)
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