#dev 2017-01-18

2017-01-18 UTC
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kevinmarks.com edited /events/2017-01-25-homebrew-website-club (+184) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks Done
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 21 minutes ago: MozSF confirmed for HWC SF 2017-01-25 - go ahead and post the indie event and FB POSSE copy!
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@ringmaster @kevinmarks Webmention is like declaring crushed peanut paste suddenly exists like it's new, and then hoping somebody shows up with jelly. (twitter.com/_/status/821526967480700928)
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aaronpk :sigh:
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aaronpk hey ringmaster maybe instead of whining on twitter about how webmention doesn't work you should actually take a look at all the things that are built with it and have been working for the past several years
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miklb I've known him for a very long time. Uncharacteristic.
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GWG Hello, miklb
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miklb evening
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GWG Anything new there?
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miklb I need to do some debugging, because my notes are still posting as just site title and link. Not the text.Last test was explicitly set to not show link, and I know character count was < 140
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GWG miklb: Working on that myself.
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miklb GWG that was from posting in the admin, not via micropub fwiw
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GWG I'm working to move the meta key from where I just put it to where the Micropub plugin stores it...in the microformat property format. mf2_syndicate-to
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@RSS_hateb_Roy html5: WebmentionがW3C勧告に | フロントエンドBlog | ミツエーリンクス https://www.mitsue.co.jp/knowledge/blog/frontend/201701/13_1201.html (twitter.com/_/status/821561021324140545)
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KartikPrabhu1 <phew> successfully moved site to Django 1.10 and sqlite3 and virtualenv!
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@kosamari Is this... this... trackback ? (I haven't read anything beyond `Abstract`) https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/821603548597207040)
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tantek perhaps the abstract can be improved then ?
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tantek miklb++ for trying to make the peace
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Loqi miklb has 1 karma in this channel (15 overall)
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jeremycherfas.net edited /User:Jeremycherfas.net (+189) "Adding Itches etc." (view diff)
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jeremycherfas.net edited /User:Jeremycherfas.net (+139) "/* Itches */" (view diff)
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petermolnar !tell snarfed bridgy seems to be using the url as tag when it's marked up as <a class="u-category" href="/tag/tagname">tagname</a>, so when it's a POSSE to flickr the tag will look like http://domain.com/tag/tagname instead of tagname; how should I avoid this?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jonnybarnes what the hell have I loggged into? https://imgur.com/a/5nC7P
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jonnybarnes anyone else see random smileys?
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Zegnat petermolnar: p-category ?
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Zegnat Your u- prefix implies that the URL is the identifier for the category, rather than the text string. So I don't think Bridgy is messing up
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loqi.me created /category (+16) "prompted by sebsel and dfn added by sebsel" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /Micropub-extensions (+131) "added petermolnar's suggestion" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /Micropub-extensions (+306) "/* Query */ added question... aaronpk?" (view diff)
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sebsel hmm, also, my ?q=config doesn't need a token at the moment, but I think I just misread https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub :) it should be over GET but still require an access token.
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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sknebel jonnybarnes: seems like your IRC Client doesn't cope well with japanese tweets
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jonnybarnes seems that way :)
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loqi.me created /Inoreader (+99) "prompted by sebsel and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
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seblog.nl moved /feedly to /Feedly "names with caps"
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petermolnar !tell snarfed ping, because "Sorry, you've already published that page, and Bridgy Publish doesn't yet support updating or deleting existing posts. Ping Ryan if you want that feature!" - actually it's not an update, I wanted to post again because I deleted the posse copy.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sebsel +1 for that problem, I had that too :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub-extensions (+213) "add implementations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /podcast (+133) "Brainstorming / How to podcast with h-feed" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /podcast (+496) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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@damiande The Social Web Working Group has published a W3C Recommendation of Webmention https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/6052?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=webmention-is-a-w3c-recommendation #W3C #HTML5 (twitter.com/_/status/821781069343182848)
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martymcgui.re edited /podcast (+244) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add wehavetoask.com" (view diff)
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@LeeteqXV Now that the #Drupal7 #Webmention module is a #W3C standard, should it merge with the Vinculum module? #BackDropCMS… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821785519130611712 (twitter.com/_/status/821785519130611712)
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tantek whoa ^^^
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tantek what is Vinculum?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Vinculum" yet. Would you like to create it?_
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@LeeteqXV Correction: it is not the #Drupal7 module itself that is a W3C standard, but #Webmention is the name of both the mo… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/821786362080796673 (twitter.com/_/status/821786362080796673)
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@KathyLeeDrupal Hey! What do you think of Webmention: Merge with Vinculum module?? I'm trying to build consensus! https://www.drupal.org/node/2844685 (twitter.com/_/status/821788842919395331)
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tantek ^^^ so that's the kind of thing that having a W3C REC can apparently impact
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voxpelli Too bad so few initiatives around distributed social networks have been successful within Drupal :/
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tantek perhaps this is a start
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tantek also, Drupal adoption of Webmention support by default will put the head on getting Vouch solidiified, specified, and adopted
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tantek.com edited /like (+121) "see likes for displaying them on posts, fix subhead level" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /likes (+82) "see like for individual like posts" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /reshares (+21) "r" (view diff)
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voxpelli tantek: core support won't really happen I think, I believe most ping mechanisms were removed from core many major versions ago
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tantek that seems fine
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tantek makes sense to wait to strongly advocate that until Vouch support is included
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voxpelli if one could get it into some distribution like Drupal Commons, then that would be more feasible: https://www.drupal.org/project/commons
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martymcgui.re edited /likes (+325) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add wehavetoask.com example" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /likes (+34) "/* Marty McGuire */ oops, mention that it's my podcast site" (view diff)
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aaronpk huh. what should the "name" of a repost be? I want it to be empty because all the content i'm reposting is in the repost-of object itself
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aaronpk so right now it's using the implied name rules and resulting in a horrible mess of a name property
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tantek aaronpk I thought that was all figured out / documented on /repost but perhaps not?
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aaronpk i don't see it
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tantek I know KartikPrabhu and I did enough brainstorming at IWC NYC 2014 to figure all that out
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tantek I remember that issue coming up
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aaronpk even when you include the reposted object as an h-cite?
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tantek it's possible we didn't fully document from our session page to the repost page
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aaronpk the only "how to" i see on the repost page just says "u-repost-of" and doesn't even mention h-cite
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aaronpk doesn't see a schedule grid on https://indieweb.org/2014/NYC
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aaronpk searches for "repost" in IRC those days and doens't find anything
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aaronpk aha found https://indieweb.org/2014/reposts with wiki search
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aaronpk don't see anything there either
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tantek hmm not sure how our markup didn't make it to the whiteboard or a photo
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tantek tries to recall markup in his brain at the time he drew those whiteboard diagrams
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aaronpk well for now i'm including an empty p-name tag to avoid the implied mess
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tantek it should be the same name as the thing you're reposting
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aaronpk i can't include the name of the thing i'm reposting without duplicating the content on the page (also not everything i repost has a name)
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tantek see also: how notes include names
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aaronpk ah yeah i guess everything does have a name because notes have names
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aaronpk but still the duplicate content issue
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tantek any worse than a note?
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tantek what kind of post is it a repost of?
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aaronpk yeah, i include the reposted content in an h-cite
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tantek note? (tweet?) article?
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aaronpk so the name of hte thing i'm reposting is inside the h-cite
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aaronpk which means in order for me to make it show up as the name of my own h-entry i'd have to *also* have that content outside the h-cite
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aaronpk i don't have any examples of reposting articles yet, so far just tweets, plaintext notes, and a podcast episode (name + audio)
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tantek hmm - what are other folks doing with theirs on IndieWeb Examples?
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tantek related: https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/3
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aaronpk kylewm uses "repost-of h-cite" and also doesn't set a p-name on his h-entry so has the same implied name prblem
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aaronpk https://kylewm.com/2015/08/repost-of-shane-becker-the-view-of-grand-teton-from
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Loqi [Kyle Mahan] https://kylewm.com/imageproxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Figcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.net%2Fhphotos-ak-xfp1%2Ft51.2885-19%2F11199457_536091666545026_245402719_a.jpg&w=64&h=64&mode=clip&sig=73ae7bc566ec116053ee0728722742db119905d5Shane Becker ...
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aaronpk lol yeah that problem thanks Loqi
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martymcguire[m] i also use "repost-of h-cite", so get an implied name: https://martymcgui.re/2016/11/29/181404/
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martymcguire[m] hmm. no sure why Loqi didn't pick it up.
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martymcguire[m] http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmartymcgui.re%2F2016%2F11%2F29%2F181404%2F
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aaronpk wow that werd.io url
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aaronpk omg it used parts of the URL that ben included in his post as the slug for his post
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martymcguire[m] haha, oh, that could be a problem.
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Loqi martymcguire[m]: lol
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aaronpk it's just super long
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aaronpk not sure why loqi didn't find it
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martymcgui.re edited /repost (+162) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - either we duplicate the name from the repost-of destination into the h-entry of the repost, or we come up with some other way to mark up reposts
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tantek I'm not sure what else to do
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tantek suggestions welcome
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aaronpk fwiw the Twitter API duplicates the content
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tantek and that being said, thanks for raising this issue
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aaronpk (with the added RT)
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tantek oh does it now, interesting
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aaronpk so the text of the equivalent of our h-entry is modified to include "RT @username {original text}"
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aaronpk that's their "fallback"
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tantek a-ha that makes sense! so that non-repost-aware consuming code will see the "RT @username {original text}"
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tantek and *that* is what I was looking for in our diagram
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aaronpk for consumers that don't recognize the reposted object in the tweet
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tantek we solved that fallback text for generic reposts
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tantek and of course I left it as "an exercise for the reader" to determine the markup accordingly
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aaronpk it makes sense conceptually
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tantek the fallback text is there
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aaronpk i'm just not sure how I would want that to *look* on my site
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aaronpk like, i'd probably want it to be invisible
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tantek if you're reposting a tweet, use the Twitter fallback text of the RT ...
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tantek else https://indieweb.org/2014/reposts#Reposting_a_post_that_lacks_a_POSSE_tweet
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tantek "♺ user.example.com: "--------..." user.example.com/permalink"
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tantek with details as described there
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tantek there we go
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tantek the "what should the name property be?" question often has the same answer as the "what should the tweet POSSE text be?" question
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tantek however that's "just" a brainstorm as neither KartikPrabhu nor I had implemented that - just figured out how we *would* implement it, including how it *should* look on our own sites
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aaronpk why 99 characters?
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aaronpk also what about posts with photo/audio/video?
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tantek you want me to do the math? ;)
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aaronpk for fallback purposes, i'd want to include the photo/audio/video properties from the repost on my h-entry as well
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tantek why?
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aaronpk for fallback
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aaronpk so that readers that don't recognize the h-cite will still see the photo of my h-entry
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tantek fallback is never expected to be as high fidelity as something that actually supports it
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tantek but it's not your photo
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tantek so that's not really appropriate IMO
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aaronpk it's not my text either
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tantek you're not posting just the text, you're quoting it
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tantek and potentially just part of it
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aaronpk point is, if I'm showing the reposted post on my website, I want that to look the same in readers
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tantek that's unlikely since CSS etc.
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aaronpk well, "same"
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aaronpk you know what i mean
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tantek I'm not sure "look the same in readers" is a reasonable constraint (similar to cross-browser web design)
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tantek fallback should show summary really
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aaronpk we have very little publishing and consuming examples of summary. that's why i haven't added it to my site yet
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tantek which should never be expected to be a complete substitute for the actual content or meaning being conveyed
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tantek sure
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aaronpk i might feel better about doing the "♺ user.example.com: "--------..." thing if it were in a "p-name p-summary" element
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tantek I think that makes sense to try
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tantek note that the user.example.com is the original, not you
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tantek it's the generic form of "RT @-name"
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tantek s/RT/♺
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tantek and s/@-name/user.example.com
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tantek but if you come up with alternative presentations (even just sketches / screenshots), by all means, document them https://indieweb.org/repost#Brainstorming
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tantek (more UI / display brainstorming is good - what Kartik and I did was just a first attempt at something reasonable / non-sucky)
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tantek if you can rethink / redesign something nicer presentationally, definitely interested in seeing it!
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aaronpk well part of the problem is I'm happy with the presentation of reposts on my own website right now, so I have no intention of changing the way they *look*
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@manton2 @FelixFischer91 There are a few APIs that I'd like to support. One is called Webmention. I posted about it recently: http://www.manton.org/2017/01/webmention-is-a-w3c-recommendation.html (twitter.com/_/status/821824803522904068)
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aaronpk oh neat, someone asking about being able to reply from a squarespace blog! https://twitter.com/FelixFischer91/status/821705915946663938
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@FelixFischer91 @manton2 will I be able to post and do @ replies with a squarespace blog? (twitter.com/_/status/821705915946663938)
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kodfabrik.se edited /likes (+501) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Adding myself" (view diff)
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kodfabrik.se edited /reposts (+493) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Adding myself (with a KevinMarks cameo)" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /reposts (+124) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Main_Page (-49) "/* IndieWebCamp */" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /likes (+327) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added myself" (view diff)
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seblog.nl edited /reposts (+226) "Added myself" (view diff)
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sebsel aaronpk I passed all tests on webmention.rocks but still failed on Zegnat's endpoint ;) https://seblog.nl/2017/01/18/2/day-3-relative-urls
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Loqi [Sebastiaan Andeweg] Day 3: relative urls
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aaronpk oh boy
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sebsel Don't know if it's worth another test, but he has a relative url in a folder.
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aaronpk ah interesting
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sebsel also the updating of the redirect url... I don't know if I handle that correctly. I should indeed use that new url for solving relativeness, but should I also take the new url as target?
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sebsel sounds phishy
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aaronpk whatever appears on your web page is what you should use as the target
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aaronpk otherwise when the receiver checks if the link exists it would fail
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sebsel good point
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sebsel I need to redo that part then
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aaronpk and it's up to the receiver to handle redirects of their own URLs
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sebsel oh, I don't have to rewrite anything, because I was using that new redirected url only within ::discoverEndpoint() :D
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aaronpk that sounds right
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Zegnat mumbles something about how he loves being on the edge of the spec and breaking people's implementations
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aaronpk ?
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seblog.nl edited /facepile (+77) "better dfn" (view diff)
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sebsel at least I hope it's better
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sebsel what is facepile?
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Loqi A Facepile is a way of showing interactions for a page/site by using profile pictures https://indieweb.org/facepile
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seblog.nl uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:seblog-facepile-likes.jpg]]""
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seblog.nl uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:seblog-facepile-rsvp.jpg]]""
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seblog.nl edited /facepile (+552) "added myself + documented how I display in 1 pile" (view diff)
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