#dev 2017-03-31

2017-03-31 UTC
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aaronpk what the heck. i think the facebook oauth api changed
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martymcguire[m] exciting!
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aaronpk i can pretend to write python https://github.com/kylewm/silo.pub/pull/47
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tantek lol aaronpk that's how I feel about python too
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tantek.com edited /2017 (+106) "aaronpk, likely dates, encourage adding more prefs" (view diff)
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tantek but first let me edit this wiki
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[kevinmarks] Json is pretty much python syntax anyway
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@karenbwill RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.thejugglingauthor.com/indieauth/ Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 20 (twitter.com/_/status/847604118336053248)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress (+243) "/* Articles */ Daniel Goldsmith" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+308) "/* Others */ +Jeremy Dean, Audrey Watters" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (-12) "/* US West */ Bellingham" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (-21) "/* Bellingham WA */ +rsvp links, +me" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+277) "additional people and links" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /OwnYourSwarm (+337) "Aaron Gibson example" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress/Security (-180) "WordPress admin to see also; removed extraneous links which are in template" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress_hentry_problem (+16) "+WordPress template" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /watch (+127) "/* gRegor Morrill */ want to watch" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /WordPress/Themes (+287) "added some links" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /trakt.tv (+112) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by [chrisaldrich]" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /trakt.tv (+159) "link and additional description" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Dublin_core (+151) "prompted by [chrisaldrich] and dfn added by [chrisaldrich]" (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Dublin_core (+272) "link, examples, see also" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /metadata (+18) "[chrisaldrich] added "[[Dublin core]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /cc (+9) "tweak for dfn" (view diff)
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gRegorLove what is cc
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Loqi cc is the pattern of mentioning someone in a public post to bring it to their attention, for example "/cc @username" at the end of a tweet https://indieweb.org/cc
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tantek.com edited /Dublin_core (-106) "replace self-claimed org dfn nothing to do with indieweb with reference to "DC:" prefix that you may encounter in the HTML of some indieweb sites" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Dublin_core (+63) "also DC is nearly always DRY violating" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* San Francisco */ going!" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (-14) "/* UK */ Adding London" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (-19) "/* London */ Adding London" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (+1) "/* UK */" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /Upcoming.org (+382) "Remove some dead links, change definition, document the public launch of Return of Upcoming." (view diff)
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sebastiangreger.net edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* Berlin */ added indie event" (view diff)
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@SocialMedia547 Using Webmentions http://business-commerce.InfignosMedia.com/socialopine/index.cfm?a=T701955&subcat=71 #SocialMedia ? (twitter.com/_/status/847803784101277696)
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@FirmanPengkolan Grab your reader from the start! 10 winning ways to open your novel. http://linkis.com/xeh61 #indieauth... by #thisisPFFord via @c0nvey (twitter.com/_/status/847835680088764418)
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aaronpk hmm, my elasticsearch instance keeps dying randomly
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tantek stretching its elasticity? ;)
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aaronpk nothing in the logs either
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tantek hey ?.aaronparecki.com just shows me "Welcome to nginx!"
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aaronpk i didn't link to that anywhere did i?
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tantek oh oops
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tantek wait but http://100.aaronparecki.com/ works!
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tantek 100 ?= ?
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aaronpk heh i can add an alias for the emoji
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tantek \o/
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tantek is updating his post
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aaronpk k now it redirects!
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tantek post updated
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aaronpk heh, your autolinker didn't match the emoji
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tantek oh dear
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tantek yeah that was kind of a test too
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aaronpk there be dragons
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tantek lol
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tantek alrighty then I'll take your word for it and file an issue for now
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/02/18/12/day-60-emoji-detector
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Day 60: Emoji Detector Library for PHP #100DaysOfIndieWeb
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tantek what is a snowflake
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Loqi snowflake in the context of the indieweb, is typically used to refer in a derogatory way to "snowflake APIs", APIs that are (often silo) website or service provider-specific (unique like snowflakes) rather than an open standard https://indieweb.org/snowflake
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tantek.com edited /granary (+12) "-and, linky, snowflake" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk I see from a friend's Swarm checkin that IETF98 is happening *now* in Chicago, and they're talking about OAuth!
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tantek just curious if you're following that
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aaronpk oh i saw some emails about that
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aaronpk at some point i'm going to need to go to one of those meetings
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tantek same
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tantek I'm thinking I might literally try to go to the next one
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tantek because I'm seeing enough overlap with some of the W3C work that I do that I want to start actively engaging in person with people who are currently actively doing work at IETF in those areas
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tantek might be a good place to get some more interest / feedback in IndieAuth (the protocol) at least
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aaronpk yeah that's what i'm thinking
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aaronpk first i have to write it up in the ietf spec format tho
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tantek you could literally do that on the wiki and see how it handles all the white-space etc.
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aaronpk yeah i
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aaronpk i'll probably start there
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aaronpk it's going to take a while to compile it into a spec. right now it's kinda sprawled across a series of pages as "how-to" guides
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tantek and then just have a script generate the silly paginated plain text version that IETF RFCs look like
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[kevinmarks] hm, Known won't let me make a url with a javascript: link
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[kevinmarks] I found an IETF rel-canonical spec
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tantek lolwut
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[eddie] Well, I’ve been using Webfaction for web hosting up until now, but I’ve run into issue with their npm versioning, so it’s time to move to an actual cloud server, rather than a shared server. I have experience with EC2, but also heard a lot of good things about linode. Anyone have any thoughts on either?
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tantek what is Webfaction?
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Loqi WebFaction is a pretty straightforward shared webhost https://indieweb.org/WebFaction
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tantek heh
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tantek what is EC2?
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Loqi Amazon EC2, or "Elastic Cloud Compute", is an Amazon.com service that rents out Virtual Private Servers with a variety of Operating System, Pricing, CPU, and Memory options https://indieweb.org/ec2
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tantek what is Linode?
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Loqi Linode is a company that provides virtual private servers and DNS hosting https://indieweb.org/Linode
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[cleverdevil] I'm biased, but you could try DreamHost DreamCompute ?
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tantek what is DreamCompute?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DreamCompute" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[cleverdevil] DreamCompute is a cloud server platform from [[DreamHost]] built on OpenStack. It provides virtual servers, block storage, and networks via an easy to use API, command line tools, and web panel.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /DreamCompute (+221) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by [cleverdevil]" (view diff)
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[cleverdevil] What is DreamHost?
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Loqi Dreamhost is a web hosting company https://indieweb.org/Dreamhost
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[cleverdevil] hmm... how do I rename that.
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aaronpk "move"
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[eddie] cleverdevil I will take a look at that too, thanks for mentioning it
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[eddie] The top of the page does have all of my favorite buzz words ?
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[cleverdevil] move Dreamhost to DreamHost
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aaronpk i forget if the "move" action is restricted or if everyone has that
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aaronparecki.com moved /Dreamhost to /DreamHost
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[eddie] cleverdevil `Max $4.50/month` That’s what I’m talking about!!
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[cleverdevil] ?
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tantek alrighty, because it's Friday and time for a new silo vs indieweb challenge
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tantek what is A friend is typing a comment...?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "A friend is typing a comment..." yet. Would you like to create it?
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[eddie] haha, I’m still looking through things, but so far seems like some positive stuff you guys have going on
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Loqi rofl
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[cleverdevil] I use a 1 GB instance for my personal site.
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[eddie] Awesome, that seems right, and puts the monthly cost right around my current cost of $10/month
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[eddie] awesome, thanks for bringing this to my attention ?
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[cleverdevil] You betcha!
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tantek A friend is typing a comment... is an indication usually at the bottom of a [[comments]] section that someone is in the process of composing a reply, supported by [[Facebook]] in grey text, with an animated bouncing ellipsis icon to the left of it.
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tantek so... if you *wanted* to, how could you let an indieweb post know that you are "typing a comment..." on your own site?
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tantek as in, is there a Webmention for that?
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[cleverdevil] Ooh, shiny.
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[cleverdevil] "A friend is blogging about you..."
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tantek ok Loqi you apparently don't like ellipsis
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tantek cleverdevil++ yes! you get it, this has more uses :)
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Loqi cleverdevil has 1 karma in this channel (20 overall)
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aaronpk slack has that too, and quite well documented as an API
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tantek gives Loqi a ...
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Loqi steps on the ...
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tantek yes apparently!
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[eddie] interested in hearing this brainstorm
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[cleverdevil] "Someone is replying to your post on their site..."
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tantek what is A friend is typing a comment?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "A friend is typing a comment" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk slack's implementation would translate nicely to webmention
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tantek A friend is typing a comment is an indication usually at the bottom of a [[comments]] section that someone is in the process of composing a reply, supported by [[Facebook]] in grey text 'A friend is typing a comment...', with an animated bouncing ellipsis icon to the left of it.
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tantek or is it that Loqi can't see past the first is
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tantek gives Loqi is is
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gRegorLove What if they're not a friend? ;)
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aaronpk yeah i think the generic form of this is a typing indicator
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aaronpk which is supported by lots more than just facebook
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tantek gRegorLove: I think that's deliberate framing on Facebook's part
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aaronpk IM clients have had it for ages
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tantek sure messaging has this documented somewhere
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tantek I'm specifically talking about the *web* phenom on (semi-)public posts
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tantek gives Loqi an is is
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Loqi grabs the is is
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[cleverdevil] I'm wondering if, in the content of longer-form posts, an "intent" to reply is more interesting than "someone is typing."
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gRegorLove gives Loqi a what what
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Loqi jumps on the what what
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[cleverdevil] By that, I mean it might be cool if you could create a stub reply on your own site as a declaration of intent to write a detailed response, and then have that register via a webmention, and then later send an update when the post is finished.
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[cleverdevil] It could show up more like "Jonathan LaCour is working on <a href="...">a reply to this post on cleverdevil.io</a>"
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tantek cleverdevil indeed! I think that's the basic bits - question is, how do you indicate it is a "stub" or "not finished" or "not published"?
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tantek perhaps if it has a dt-created but no dt-published?
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tantek sounds like a use-case for no dt-published no dt-updated!
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tantek (take that silly Atom format requirements :P)
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tantek really should get on writing up Atom 2.0 that removes all the MUSTs from publishing requirements
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tantek then you could put in p-summary text for the fallback behavior, e.g. your name if you choose like "Tantek is typing a comment..." which would show up *today* in current webmention receivers/displayers
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tantek and then yes, send another webmention when you've published it with the real text
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tantek per update
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tantek Webmention updates are already a documented and supported thing
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tantek so technically, you could fake this right now to any Webmention receiver that supports updates
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tantek you could even set the h-card u-photo URL to an animated bouncing "..." GIF in the hopes that it would show up at the destination that way, and then send your image as the u-photo once you've published
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[cleverdevil] ?
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tantek so I think the pieces are there to make it work *today* from the commenter perspective!
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tantek ideally you want to show it by replying to a post on a site that shows realtime comment updates
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tantek I think aaronpk used to do that
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tantek what is realtime comments
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "realtime comments" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is realtime
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Loqi Realtime generally refers to a user experience where content is updated live; for example: a new comment shows up on a page while you're viewing it, or chat notification "your friend is typing a message." https://indieweb.org/Realtime
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tantek hah!
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tantek there is the typing the message thing right there
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aaronpk Using a webmention update is clever
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cweiske aaronpk, micropub.rocks client test 104 should provide a url that one can use
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tantek aaronpk do you still/again support realtime comments display?
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aaronpk cweiske: not a bad idea
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cweiske I copied the mp.rocks logo image url for now
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aaronpk noted https://github.com/aaronpk/micropub.rocks/issues/61
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tantek aaronpk, ok, bonus round: how would a micropub client tell a micropub server to "post" and send webmentions for a "... is typing ..." h-entry? i.e. no dt-published?
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aaronpk tantek: no realtime comments yet. my home page does update in realtime tho, so comments won't be too hard to add
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tantek nice
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aaronpk hm, right now if the micropub request doesn't include a published date, the server assumes "now"
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aaronpk so might have to explicitly set it to false/null/empty
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tantek right - hence bonus round, challenging question
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tantek and how would you do it backcompat?
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gRegorLove tantek: late reply, but you should definitely do RSS 4.0.1 tomorrow :)
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tantek ?
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cweiske oh nice. clicking on paragraphs in the micropub spec changes the anchor in the address bar
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cweiske nice alternative to my blog's pilcrow-on-hover feature, even though not so obvious
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tantek headings and list items too!
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tantek waits for aaronpk to figure out a way to display marginalia on the Micropub spec from links to those fragment anchors
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cweiske aaronpk, micropub.rocks q=syndicate-to returns 400 bad request but correct json data
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cweiske curl -v -H 'User-Agent: shpub' -H 'Authorization: Bearer Y3dGm5pHObyiscxKvpKBMLAgkCrMI0vxYTw9UpD2QzMBAbPsvbqemdkwXHpiI9gjjJgyhJIOTEGbIncblAr8sikIHEOSMEyKOQEdIIwGyxYNccDLeAogNrv2oyoMsjUp' 'https://micropub.rocks/client/NHNzxiXsfyGOfckV/micropub?q=syndicate-to'
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cweiske < HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
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cweiske {"syndicate-to":[{"uid":"https://news.indieweb.org/en","name":"IndieNews"}]}
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aaronpk oh funny
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aaronpk cweiske: fixed, thanks
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aaronparecki.com edited /Planning (+50) "/* Summit */ shaners +1" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+8) "/* Seattle */ interested" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+439) "/* 2017 */ add a bunch more interested and co-organizing encouragements" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IWS (-11) "-r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWeb_Summit (+0) "2017!" (view diff)
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tantek oh I got it - I think
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tantek a micropub client could set dt-created and also post-status=draft per https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Post_Status
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tantek for the "... is typing ..." use-case discussed earlier
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aaronpk oh hey
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[kevinmarks] related - https://slackhq.com/
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[kevinmarks] the name of that blog is spot on, though they could unfurl better
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[kevinmarks] also, this is a great description of workflow https://slackhq.com/the-story-of-beeftweets-e98d70501dd9
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+536) "Bellingham date is known, IndieWebSummit will be in June, update HWCs" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2017-04-05-homebrew-website-club (+84) "/* US East */ baltimore deferred to 2017-04-19" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2017-04-19-homebrew-website-club (+462) "/* US East */ add Baltimore location and times" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /events/2017-04-19-homebrew-website-club (-17) "/* RSVP */ add baltimore RSVP" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /csp (+20) "no double redirect" (view diff)