#dev 2018-02-28

2018-02-28 UTC
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KartikPrabhu
removing mf2 class dependent styles from CSS is a good idea. But removing mf2 from the themes isn't a solution to that. you can attach styles to any arbitrary attribute or tag in CSS
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GWG
I wil.
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GWG
Just not easing the frustration.
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KartikPrabhu
it might alos be good that a "starter" theme should not have any microformats. But theme authors can add those in in "derivative" themes no?
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GWG
I submitted the PR in November of 2015
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GWG
And they waited 2.5 years to say...this
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KartikPrabhu
<shrug> big community with many people possibly busy with other stuff
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KartikPrabhu
hell, I didn't even know that mf2py was thought of as "orphaned" until a few weeks ago
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KartikPrabhu
and that is a small group
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[kevinmarks]
I didn't think it was orphaned, more that I hadn't needed to change it much recently
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[kevinmarks]
What is the best way of telling wordpress that they are massively misguided here?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "best way of telling wordpress that they are massively misguided here" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "best way of telling wordpress that they are massively misguided here is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG
[kevinmarks]: What is the best way of telling any large group of people you disagree with them?
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[kevinmarks]
They've had s discussion in private and told us the result in public. That's a bit of a shame.
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[kevinmarks]
I have really disliked their recent default themes for legibility reasons too.
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GWG
[kevinmarks]: The focus of the community seems to have turned to the business side of things, instead of a more personal platform, which is a shame.
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[kevinmarks]
We can make a business case for microformats (and indieweb)
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GWG
[kevinmarks]: I meant, in explaining the focus they seem to have
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GWG
But, I've decided Core may not be the right move and focused on the Indieweb plugins.
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loqi.me
edited /notification (+153) "tantek added "2018-02-27 New York Times: [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/magazine/red-dots-badge-phones-notification.html How Tiny Red Dots Took Over Your Life]" to "See Also""
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[eddie]
!tell aaronpk: he’s working on it https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/138
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[EdwardHinkle] #138 Filter out repost/retweets
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aaronpk
Oh yay
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KartikPrabhu
interesting does #indieweb from twitter not show up here anymore?
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@kartik_prabhu
Seems like @twitter is becoming a place more for brands and less for people. Also, seems I am a terrible brand! #indieweb (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/twitter-for-brands) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXFcoZgU8AAWWEq.jpg
(twitter.com/_/status/968657252373684224)
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tantek
I thought it was showing up in #indieweb
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tantek
it's the wiki edits that show up here
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KartikPrabhu
nope not there either
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tantek
and Webmention / protocols / formats / standards
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@kartik_prabhu
Picked up contributing to mf2py, #python parser for #microformats after about 3 years! Many bug fixes https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py Other experimental parsing features on https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/tree/experimental #indieweb (https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/mf2py-again)
(twitter.com/_/status/967649250334175232)
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: ^^ ?
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KartikPrabhu
maybe Loqi has blocked/muted me on twitter ;)
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aaronpk
hm I did just change some stuff about that script the other day
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aaronpk
oops! just missed that one
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KartikPrabhu
you mean the #indieweb hastag?
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aaronpk
the script that searches that
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aaronpk
back now
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theReal33mhz
I've read through https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/736 and related documentation for better pnut.io support. Quite a lot of pieces to pick up; I'll want to familiarize myself w/known and bridgy, get both running and see where I can help. I haven't read through all of micropub, either, which would be good to cover as well.
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Loqi
[chrisaldrich] #736 New silo: pnut.io
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KartikPrabhu
theReal33MHz: wow! that is a lot of stuff to pick up right away!
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KartikPrabhu
theReal33MHz: do you have a website?
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theReal33mhz
kartikprabhu for my posts? Nope, but I can set these up to work with it. Or, https://pnut.io/@33mhz is my site ;)
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KartikPrabhu
theReal33MHz: I have found it easier to pick these things up if I use them on my site, one feature at a time
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theReal33mhz
kartikprabhu I believe it. I'll start from scratch so that these tools work sensibly with pnut.io -- to the extent that I can... No better way to understand than to do.
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aaronpk
excited to try out my new fancy read-state marking
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aaronpk
it waits til you stop scrolling, then marks any entries that are scrolled off the screen as read
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: using the new IntersectionObserver in JS?
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theReal33mhz
well, known is straight-forward to set up. now onto the plugin and testing.
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[eddie]
aaronpk: Oh!! That’s a good idea, the items off the screen
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: I don't know what that is
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schmarty
anyone in here with experience using lasso for IndieAuth (i know aaronpk set it up for indieweb.org and related sites)
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schmarty
i'm trying to set it up for a personal site and i am running into something that may not be part of its core feature set, but *seems* like it should be
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schmarty
what is Lasso?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Lasso" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Lasso is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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schmarty
Lasso is a Single-Sign On OAuth client that works with the [[Nginx]] auth_request module and supports [[IndieAuth]]. https://github.com/bnfinet/lasso
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loqi.me
created /Lasso (+177) "prompted by schmarty and dfn added by schmarty"
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Loqi
[bnfinet] lasso: an SSO and OAuth login solution for nginx using the auth_request module
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kaja.sknebel.net
edited /Lasso (+1) "linkify ('x is y. <url>.' pattern)"
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schmarty
i seem to have lasso working in terms of round trips through indieauth.com, correctly setting cookies, and getting my identity.
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[miklb]
aaronpk is there a better channel/place to ask about Compass?
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schmarty
however, lasso also has a feature flag for "allowAllUsers" which, if true, will "identify users rather than determine whether they are authorized"
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schmarty
i would actually like lasso to check whether a user is authorized, but i don't grok how it allows you to specify authorization. there's something about encoding "grants" into the JWT it uses for the identifying cookie, but i am a little lost.
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schmarty
maybe i need to back up a step and see if nginx's auth_request has something to say about it
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[miklb]
it looks like it is working 🙂
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schmarty
a-ha! figured it out. the issue was coming from the way my protected site was proxying requests to lasso. since i was using proxy_pass directly to the server on localhost, i needed to proxy_set_header Host to the actual host domain.
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schmarty
wahoo! i can log into a private site using IndieAuth and my own domain. 🎉
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schmarty
lasso++
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Loqi
lasso has 1 karma
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[miklb]
that’s pretty cool
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KartikPrabhu
what is lasso?
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Loqi
Lasso is a Single-Sign On OAuth client that works with the Nginx auth_request module and supports IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/Lasso
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[jeremycherfas]
!tell theReal33mhz if you need a Known pnut tester, let me know.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pstuifzand
Hi, I started working on an Android app for micropub and I'm looking for some people that would like to use/test it.
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[eddie]
Hey pstuifzand, GWG will likely want to test it out
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[eddie]
!tell GWG your day is finally here! An Android Micropub app: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-28/1519829607992900
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[pstuifzand] Hi, I started working on an Android app for micropub and I'm looking for some people that would like to use/test it.
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pstuifzand
Nice, it's still early days, but some important parts already work (for me): authentication and syndication
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[eddie]
That’s awesome. I’m an iOS guy, but I know several of the Android guys have been hoping for something but haven’t had the time
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pstuifzand
I just released an alpha release today, that works for me and now it's time to fill in some of the gaps for other people.
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[eddie]
Yeah that’s the best way to do it. I built an iOS one and I did the same thing. Really helps find the missing pieces when others start using it
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sknebel
pstuifzand: if it's released: link?
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Zegnat
Oh, Android? I would love to test that too!
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pstuifzand
I can send a link, but I also need to add you to the list of alpha testers.
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Zegnat
what do you need to add people as an “alpha tester”? Account used on Google Play Store?
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pstuifzand
yes the email address
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Zegnat
The one email address I have been trying to not publicly spread everywhere, haha
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Loqi
ahaha
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pstuifzand
I have an email address on my website https://peterstuifzand.nl/
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Loqi
Peter Stuifzand
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pstuifzand
You can send it there if you like to be added to the list
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Zegnat
pstuifzand, bad news, app crashes right after entering my domain, hahaha
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pstuifzand
It was to be expected, Link headers are not supported yet :)
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Zegnat
Aah, alrighty :)
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pstuifzand
I guess it should be one of the next items on my todo list
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Zegnat
Finishing off the discovery step is a nice first item for the list for sure!
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[eddie]
snarfed: I must be doing something wrong in granary with Facebook. I’m trying to get a stream of posts by just one friend so I can add that friend’s posts into microsub. I composed the URL like this: https://granary.io/facebook/1286685110/@self/@app/?format=mf2-json the userid right after facebook I was able to verify is the right friend’s API id both from looking at a link in the DOM of my newsfeed and using one of those “Get user id fr
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[eddie]
matched both times, so I’m pretty sure it’s the right id
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[eddie]
But the posts I get are my own? 😕
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[eddie]
!tell snarfed: hmmm I think I’m doing something wrong… https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-28#t1519833264218600
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[[eddie]] snarfed: I must be doing something wrong in granary with Facebook. I’m trying to get a stream of posts by just one friend so I can add that friend’s posts into microsub. I composed the URL like this: https://granary.io/facebook/1286685110/@self/@...
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[miklb]
aaronpk++ I’m in love with Overland + Compass.
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Loqi
aaronpk has 121 karma in this channel (1574 overall)
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[kevinmarks]
I'd love to try your android micropub app pstuifzand
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pstuifzand
[kevinmarks]: what's your google account email? I need it to add you to the alpha testers list
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tantek
What is a Google Account?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Account" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Google Account is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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pstuifzand
it's the account you use to install apps from the Google Play store
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Zegnat
Not sure that is worth defining tantek. That’s like asking “What is a Facebook Account?” or “What is a Twitter Account?”. Redirect to definition of the service providers themselves.
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tantek
what is iCloud
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Loqi
iCloud is what Apple summarily calls all of its various online services such as iCloud identifiers, online storage, syncing, etc https://indieweb.org/iCloud
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tantek
what is Apple ID
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Loqi
Apple ID is a universal identity system from Apple that they use on iOS and macOS systems as well as their iCloud service https://indieweb.org/Apple_ID
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tantek
Zegnat ^^^
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tantek
assuming Google Account is the Google equivalent
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tantek
Zegnat: it's not the same as FB / Twitter
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tantek
because you can use your own email address as your "account
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tantek
on Google that is
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Zegnat
Yes you can
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tantek
and via that mechanism they do Google Accounts for companies too
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Zegnat
My brother even has a Google Account on his hotmail
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Zegnat
You can register using any email address with Google. At least, you could.
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tantek
right, your own email as your username - that's like Apple ID
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tantek
but *not* like FB/Twitter
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tantek
where you get an *additional* username
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tantek
or rather, have to pick
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Zegnat
Oh. You can login to Facebook with a user name?
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tantek
phone number even
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Zegnat
Ah, yeah, “Email or Phone”. Facebook doesn’t actually give you a user name either.
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Zegnat
tries to get Facebook to accept a user name
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Zegnat
Ooh, interesting, even though the form says “Email or Phone”, it will also accept the thing you have set as “username”. Which they only advertise as your profile shortlink
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Zegnat
Things you learn :D
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snarfed
!tell eddie sorry for the trouble! i'll look into it
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Loqi
snarfed: [eddie] left you a message 1 hour, 19 minutes ago: hmmm I think I’m doing something wrong… https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-28#t1519833264218600
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
Did someone say Micropub for Android?
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Loqi
GWG: [eddie] left you a message 2 hours, 14 minutes ago: your day is finally here! An Android Micropub app: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-02-28/1519829607992900
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snarfed
tantek: afaik google accounts actually are like fb/twitter in that you pick a username (in the gmail namespace) that needs to be unique
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snarfed
you don't have to use that gmail address to log in, or as your primary email where google will mail you, but i believe it still exists and is attached to the account
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snarfed
(possible that has changed recently, but i doubt it)
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tantek
snarfed my understanding is that is not the case, especially with Google Accounts for orgs
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snarfed
ah sure, i mean s/gmail/google apps domain/
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tantek
e.g. I didn't need to create one when Mozilla switched all mozilla.com email addresses to being Google Accounts for gmail, calendar, docs etc.
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tantek
I have no Gmail "username" for that
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tantek
certainly was not required (or even asked!) to create one
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tantek
so that's *not* the same as Twitter
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tantek
AFAIK this is true for "public" Gmail as well
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snarfed
right, i misspoke. it's actually the full email address on a google apps domain. i was being lazy and said gmail
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snarfed
so to rephrase, afaik all google accounts have a unique email address at a google apps managed domain. that address and domain can change over time, but still. i don't know that you can create a google account without *any* address at a google-managed domain, even if you don't see or use it much (or at all)
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Zegnat
I’ll have to check, I am pretty sure my brother’s Hotmail account is a Google Account that he uses for his YouTube and Android stuff. Though obviously that domain isn’t Google-managed, it also does not include email
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tantek
right ^^^ that's my point
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tantek
snarfed, the email you use as your "Google Account" does not need to be a google-managed domain
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[eddie]
I know you at least USED to be able to create a Google Account just like an Apple ID with an external email. I used to do that
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[eddie]
I haven’t tried recently
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Loqi
[eddie]: snarfed left you a message 29 minutes ago: sorry for the trouble! i'll look into it
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Loqi
[eddie]: snarfed left you a message 29 minutes ago: sorry for the trouble! i'll look into it
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[eddie]
snarfed: no worries. Thanks 🙂
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snarfed
sure! as i mentioned earlier, you can have a non-google-managed address as the primary on an account, you can log in with it, etc. i believe there will just *also* always be a google-managed address, either gmail or google apps, even if you don't use it much or at all, maybe even only thought about it once when you signed up.
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Zegnat
https://i.imgur.com/dT3LbEW.png - Google sign-up, click “I prefer to use my current email address”, then the “Choose your username” changes to “Your email address”.
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snarfed
at least, that used to be the case. it's possible it changed recently
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snarfed
ok! interesting. i'd be curious to see the entire flow there. maybe they changed it recently.
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[eddie]
GWG: Yep, pstuifzand is starting an alpha/beta of a micropub app they built for Android
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GWG
Already emailed
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[eddie]
:thumbsup:
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GWG
I have a lot of thoughts.
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snarfed
tries to avoid them
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snarfed
(my own thoughts, that is)
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GWG
snarfed, on Android Micropub clients?
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snarfed
in general!
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[eddie]
!tell aaronpk: Looking through your PHP IndieWeb libraries I don’t think I see a library that contains logic for micropub queries and media endpoint stuff. I’m assuming the proper library to add that stuff into would be your new p3k/Micropub?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
snarfed, your GitHub comments suggest otherwise
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GWG
You give them a lot of thought. That's a good thing
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tantek
snarfed, AFAIK that sign-up flow has kinda been that way for a while (5-10 years?)
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tantek
I do remember when gmail launched that you had to pick a unique gmail name
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tantek
but this is about "Google Account" and in that regard I believe it is like Apple ID now
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tantek
where you have the option to pick a name at their silo (gmail.com icloud.com) but certainly not required to
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tantek
anyway I figured Google Account was worth documenting since we have Apple ID and we have plenty of iOS / Apple bias already in the community
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tantek
(based on hardware usage at indiewebcamps etc.)
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tantek
what is Google Account
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Account" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Google Account is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek
Zegnat, want to start that using your screenshot?
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tantek
lost track of what Bridgy / GitHub issues he was supposed to file
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Zegnat
A Google Account is an identity that can be used to authenticate for all of Google’s services, as well as other services using OAuth.
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Zegnat
What is a Google Account?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Account" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Google Account is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Zegnat
A Google Account is an identity that can be used to authenticate for all of Google’s services, as well as other services using OAuth.
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loqi.me
created /Google_Account (+160) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat"
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tantek
Google Account << Apple ID
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Apple ID]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Google_Account
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loqi.me
edited /Google_Account (+32) "tantek added "[[Apple ID]]" to "See Also""
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tantek
Apple ID << Google Account
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Google Account]]" to the "See Also" section of /Apple_ID
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tantek
Google << Google Account
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Google Account]]" to the "See Also" section of /Google
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Zegnat
I might go through the sign-up process for more screenshots after dinner
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Zegnat
puts a virtual sticky note on his screen
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loqi.me
created /timeline_review (+280) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
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loqi.me
edited /moderation (+22) "tantek added "[[timeline review]]" to "See Also""
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loqi.me
edited /timeline (+22) "tantek added "[[timeline review]]" to "See Also""
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loqi.me
edited /wall (+22) "tantek added "[[timeline review]]" to "See Also""
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tantek.com
edited /timeline (+260) "add disambig links for silo wall / homepage, see alsos"
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loqi.me
edited /timeline_review (+86) "tantek added "[https://m.facebook.com/a/approval_queue Facebook Timeline Review]" to "See Also""
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tantek
the Bridgy GitHub features and discussions have made me wonder if there's a role for broader backfeed features
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tantek
e.g. backfeed usually applies to responses directly to your POSSE copy of one of your posts
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tantek
but with Bridgy backfeed for GitHub, I believe you get backfeed for all comments that come after your comment, whether they linked to your comment or not
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tantek
that sounds like it would be nice to have on other silos also
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tantek
e.g. you RSVP to an event, then get all the subsequent comments as backfeed
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tantek
or even on twitter. right now you only get backfed @-replies that reply to your @-reply. what if you got all subsequent @-replies to the root of the thread?
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tantek
(or all subsequent @-replies to all branches from the root of the thread)
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tantek
the goal here being of course to get a copy of the subsequent conversation onto your own site, instead of having it be trapped in a silo
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tantek
then if we also consider broadening reply-context similarly to all responses transitive that were made to the root of the discussion before your response
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tantek
by capturing both of those (broad reply-context before your post, broad backfeed after your post), you can replicate the entire context around what your responding to, and thus not need to actually visit the silo for *any* context around your responses
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snarfed
tantek: interesting
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snarfed
just fyi github backfeed now requires a synd link. https://brid.gy/about#GitHub+responses+require
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tantek
for both issues and comments on issues?
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tantek
reads
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snarfed
bridgy github currently only backfeeds to issues/PRs, not to comments
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tantek
ah ok
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tantek
for some reason I thought it did
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snarfed
we don't have plumbing fully worked out for this "capture all context" idea, right?
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snarfed
(which is ok, just checking)
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snarfed
ie, how would the full indie case work? eg you comment on a post, and then someone else also comments on it. how would your site get that comment? an extension of salmention?
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tantek
I believe salmention already covers this, when the original post is updated to display the comment after yours
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tantek
then the original post send your reply a salmention
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tantek
and pretty sure ben_thatmustbeme has this working live on his site (as a receiver of salmentions, not sure he sends them too?)
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tantek
as in I believe his own reply posts receive salmentions and then display any new comments found at the original as subsequent comments on his reply post
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snarfed
hmm, reading the draft on https://indieweb.org/Salmentions , i don't see that interpretation
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snarfed
"...resend Webmentions *to everything the original post sent webmentions to*" (emphasis mine)
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snarfed
maybe implementations are experimenting beyond that draft
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tantek
snarfed, I believe the wording in the Webmention spec itself is broad enough to cover the behavior I'm talking about
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tantek
sandro pointed this out to me a while ago
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[kevinmarks]
When you use a non-google email for some services, it will get you to pick a name from the common namespace with Gmail. Plus does that, some others do too.
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[kevinmarks]
Also, there is a really nasty edge case, where you sign up with a non Google email account, and later that domain switches to Gmail, and you can have 2 different Google accounts with the same email.
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tantek
[kevinmarks]: perhaps add those caveats to /Google_Account ?
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ben_thatmustbeme
hasn't been working lately
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[kevinmarks]
Or rather a gafyd/gsuite account and an individual Google account with the same email address.
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snarfed
tantek: sure. i get that it's technically legal. we've just never thought through the details of extracting, ingesting and displaying indirect context like this, as opposed to direct replies etc.
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snarfed
we can!
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tantek
snarfed, point being, spec is pretty clear about "any new links that appear at the URL" - that would include links back to peer-to-peer comment permalinks as they're displayed under a post
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snarfed
(at least, it's technically legal if the original post displays the replies etc. with links)
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tantek
not just "legal", but SHOULD
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tantek
*expected*
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tantek
in addition, non peer-to-peer comments (AKA "local comments") are covered by this sentence: "If a response to the source URL is shown on the source URL page (e.g. as a comment), then sender SHOULD treat that as an update of the source URL and re-send any previously sent Webmentions."
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tantek
so if you reply to a post from your own site
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tantek
then someone else writes a *local* comment on that original post
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tantek
the original post is expected to send a webmention to your reply
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snarfed
sure! in practice right now i expect most people only send wms to links in their e-content, or at least h-entry
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tantek
perhaps
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tantek
I think responses are often included in the h-entry
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tantek
perhaps in a nested h-feed
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tantek
so " only send wms to links in their h-entry" still makes sense
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /issue (+499) "Example of replying to GitHub issue using Bridgy Publish Plugin and Bridgy from WordPress"
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tantek
what's not specified (AFAIK) is how to handle *receiving* a salmention
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tantek
and detecting additional responses after yours etc.
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tantek
but as a MAY with subsequent SHOULD
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tantek
and link to /Salmention for more details of how to do so, so we have some wiggle room for adapting / specifying according to actual implementations
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www.boffosocko.com
edited /Bridgy_Publish_plugin (+236) "support for GitHub POSSE; links to See Also"
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tbbrown, snarfed, chrisaldrich, tantek, ScalaWilliam, maingo and leg joined the channel
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tantek.com
edited /Planning (+4) "rm past IWC LA date and 2017 Brighton comment, add +/- to IWC NYC possible dates proposed by schmarty"
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tantek
what is Share-Backported
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Share-Backported" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Share-Backported is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek
!tell aaronpk I tried to get Micropub added to this browser "Share" extension and got an odd closing statement re: "doesn't support a modal" - does this make any sense to you https://github.com/Mte90/Share-Backported/issues/24#issuecomment-346324115 ?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[Mte90] Actually that standard doesn't support a modal like the other social networks so I cannot implement not
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tantek
(or anyone else)
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tantek
what is Share Backported
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Share Backported" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Share Backported is ____", a sentence describing the term)