#dev 2018-05-02

2018-05-02 UTC
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[manton] Are the citations in the /kind/bookmark/feed/json feed? Looks like the latest post is from 2016 so might just be too old to include.
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GWG [manton]: I meant, it doesn't render them well.
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GWG I still need to own my bookmarks.
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GWG If a good micropub for Android client works, there will be a flood of those when I move them over from Pinboard
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[manton] Are those "syn-text" and "syn-link" CSS classes a convention that is widely used, or just for your site?
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GWG [manton]: No. They are just for styling. u-syndication is a microformat.
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[manton] Thanks, that's what I thought. So I could hardcode Micro.blog to remove them or style them differently, but I try to avoid that if possible unless it effects tons of sites (like some default from WordPress.com). It seems better to just not include that text in the feed.
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GWG [manton]: I think I will be coding it to not appear in the jsonfeed specifically, and instead add it as a _syndication property
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[manton] Okay, that works!
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GWG Or maybe a different feed presentation
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aaronpk [manton]: i'm parsing the microformats on GWG's site, and those elements aren't part of the content in that, so they look great to me
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GWG aaronpk, they shouldn't be in the feed then.. I need to have a look
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GWG Remember what I did
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aaronpk if you look at the parsed result the content is just the content and doesn't include those tags https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdavid.shanske.com%2F
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tantek let me guess, different code for generating the jsonfeed than the h-feed?
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aaronpk also can i just say again how glad i am that using a microformats parser means i don't have to think about HTML parsing
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tantek.com edited /502 (+107) "silo examples, instagram" (view diff)
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GWG tantek, actually different code for the RSS feed. JSONfeed didn't exist when I wrote this.
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[manton] [aaronpk] Ah, that explains it. Cool.
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tantek GWG, yup, feed maintenance tax
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GWG tantek, I can now filter it out of the jsonfeed now that I know it exists.
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GWG Next version. I am working on that code right now anyway
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GWG To add POSSE support
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tantek.com edited /down (-358) "r outage" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /outage (+384) "include "down" dfn, see downtime for examples, see also monitoring" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+217) "/* Downtime */ error texts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /downtime (+25) "/* Silo Examples */ IG" (view diff)
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grant.codes uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:HWC-Baltimore-2018-05-01.jpeg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:HWC-Baltimore-2018-05-01.jpeg"
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aaronpk haha amazing
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tantek great photo
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tantek that's going to be difficult to top
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tantek aaronpk we have to come up with something
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grantcodes I'll take credit for the idea :P
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KartikPrabhu are they all trapped in their own silos!? ;)
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aaronpk lol
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+762) "/* webaction buttons in-stream */ update new in-stream brainstorm text design, add syndication links in-stream per Monocle display use-case" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk, per your nudging with that screenshot: https://indieweb.org/Falcon#syndication_links_in-stream
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aaronpk nice
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tantek.com edited /navigation (+57) "/* Left Future */ caveat Kartik" (view diff)
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GWG Okay, this was annoying me.. https://github.com/manton/jsonfeed-wp/pull/23
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Loqi [dshanske] #23 Spec says date in RFC3339 format but nothing about GMT
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aaronpk oh nice, will that show the local time in the jsonfeed now?
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GWG aaronpk: If [manton] merges it.
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aaronpk GWG++
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Loqi gwg has 29 karma in this channel (338 overall)
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GWG aaronpk: I think I'm avoiding my project.
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GWG I also just added the code to add syndication as a '_syndication' properly.
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aaronpk nice
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tantek GWG, why the _? I thought that was a typo at first
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tantek in mf2json it's just "syndication"
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GWG tantek: https://jsonfeed.org/version/1
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aaronpk jsonfeed says extensions should use _
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GWG aaronpk: I don't particularly agree with that, but I complied
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tantek ah, _ is jsonfeed's x-
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aaronpk yea. tho the example is vendor prefixes
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aaronpk so for that i can see prefixing with _, but it seems like extensions that are meant to be core shouldn't require a _
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tantek right
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tantek and perhaps consider anything as at least "draft" in h-entry as likely to make it
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GWG aaronpk: Is syndication meant to be core?
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GWG Am I misreading the spec?
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tantek FYI u-syndication *is* core
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry#Core_Properties
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] h-entry is a simple, open format for episodic or datestamped content on the web. h-entry is often used with content intended to be syndicated, e.g. blog posts. h-entry is one of several open microformat standards suitable for embedding data in HTML. ...
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GWG tantek: It is core microformats2, but is it core JSONFeed?
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GWG I'm not sure if I have an opinion. I just disabled adding the data as part of the content.
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aaronpk GWG: my point is that the example in jsonfeed of prefixing with _ is for a vendor-specific property
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aaronpk whereas the "syndication" property is not vendor-specific
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GWG aaronpk: So, no _?
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aaronpk it's a concept that applies to a post
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aaronpk right
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aaronpk *technically* right now jsonfeed says any additional properties have to be considreed extensions and use _, although i suspect what they actually *mean* is that vendor-specific properties should use _
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GWG No one is consuming it anyway.
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tantek right, so go ahead and use "syndication" citing prior art in mf2json of h-entry
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tantek it's not vendor specific, so don't use _
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (+58) (view diff)
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tantek [unoabraham]: can you expand your screenshot to show the browser UI with URL that caused the error?
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tantek otherwise it just looks like their error image
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tantek out of context
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tantek also helpful is date-time of when you captured it, and or how long you saw it down for
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loqi.me created /upload_file (+27) "prompted by tantek and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (-22) (view diff)
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abraham.uno uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:D180CDI.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:D180CDI.png"
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tantek there we go
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (+6) "/* Downtime */" (view diff)
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (-5) "/* Downtime */" (view diff)
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (+21) "/* Downtime */" (view diff)
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (-5) "/* Downtime */" (view diff)
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tantek [unoabraham]: can you note what URL you took that screenshot at?
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tantek (ideally it's in the screenshots of the browser with URL bar, but at least note it in the page)
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abraham.uno edited /Mastodon (+14) "/* Downtime */" (view diff)
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kaushalmodi tantek, abraham.uno: curious.. how is recording downtime of Mastodon useful in indieweb.org? Also, which instance?
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tantek kaushalmodi: presumably instance prime
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tantek and useful to compare to silo downtimes
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kaushalmodi But the downtime info cannot be authorative/fair i.e. we cannot always record *all* the downtimes of all silos and all instances of Mastodon
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tantek kaushalmodi: some data is better than none
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tantek AKA perfect is the enemy of the good
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kaushalmodi *authoritative
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kaushalmodi OK :)
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tantek right, no need to "always record *all* the downtimes of all silos "
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tantek in fact implying as much is counterproductive to incremental progress
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges1.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges1.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges2.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges2.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges3.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges3.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges4.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges4.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges5.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges5.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges6.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges6.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges7.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges7.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:4sq-memory-lane-badges8.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:4sq-memory-lane-badges8.png"
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tantek.com edited /Foursquare (+825) "/* History */ Foursquare Badges" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk here you go - simple badge design inspirations: https://indieweb.org/Foursquare#Foursquare_Badges
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aaronpk Wow
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tantek see badges don't have to be complicated to look fun and cool
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tantek and yeah I can't believe I earned that many
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aaronpk Hey micro.blog has badges too
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tantek quadruple click (slowly) to zoom a bunch
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GWG Badges...
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tantek I'll leave it to someone else to screenshot / document the microblog badges
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tantek what are badges
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/badges
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tantek.com edited /badges (-2) "update r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /badge (+171) "link to newly uploaded section of badges" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /badge (+16) "reorder a bit, Fitbit section" (view diff)
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schmarty okay! a few updates to my micropub GIF keyboard
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schmarty homepage now detects that you're logged in and skips the login box
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tantek.com edited /badge (+21) "move EFF to other examples, their badge is not like the others (not earned online)" (view diff)
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schmarty there's a <details> element that hides an in-reply-to input for manual in-reply-to entry
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schmarty it shows your logged-in status
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schmarty oh and there's a logo and a name marked up with h-x-app
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schmarty next up i think i might make a draggable bookmarklet for making replies easier
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schmarty i should make a todo list.
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Loqi definitely
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aaronpk Niiice
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schmarty i am pleased to have found a suitable name that fits in my awful Saved by the Bell naming scheme. i have rhearamakrishnan.com to thank for the name suggestion.
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tantek schmarty I have no idea what you're talking about but it sounds fun!
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schmarty tantek: i have done a terrible job documenting it but i have hacked together a micropub GIF response app at https://garrulous-smile.glitch.me/
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Loqi Kapowski
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tantek ooh error getting auth url
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tantek and error getting microformats data
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schmarty ha, i log the error but not the source of it. what did you enter for your URL?
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schmarty also here is an example post: https://martymcgui.re/2018/04/14/145815/
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schmarty tantek: ah, i don't think you have the micropub authorization, token, and micropub endpoint headers set. probably because you don't use micropub. :}
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schmarty i want to make a nicer set of error messages, like quills, that explain how to set the needed headers.
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schmarty i should probably also make a "demo mode" so folks can see what it does without logging in. it can stop just before posting.
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schmarty bedtime for now, though. goodnight, indieweb-dev!
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tantek yes I'm not quite up to the micropubs yet
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tantek schmarty or if it gave markup I could copy paste that would be nice too :)
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schmarty tantek: ooh that is a great idea!
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aaronpk Nice
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tantek no login needed :)
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aaronpk Good fallback
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tantek and would work for "plain wordpress" sites too
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schmarty immediately i am wondering how much markup to give. ideally i'd like to get some mf2 in there. i guess that's really hoping for a lot.
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tantek yes definitely
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tantek the big decision is to include a full h-entry, or just the "stuff inside"
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schmarty and if i want to trust "plain wordpress" - can i make it backcompat with mf1? ;}
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schmarty anyhoo, the clock just ticked over for me. time to sleep! thanks to the folks who posted some gifs today!
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schmarty pstuifzand++ for taking the first leap, i think
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Loqi pstuifzand has 1 karma
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loqi.me created /federated_social_network (+22) "prompted by KartikPrabhu and redirect added by tantek" (view diff)
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wagle three days, three photo album solutions rejected
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aaronpk can you document the issues you ran into on the projects' respective pages? I would be curious to read that
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nicolas-hoizey.com edited /Webmention (+322) "Add a post about Webmention as a replacement for Disqus" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /leaders_summit (+0) "This year’s summit please" (view diff)
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pstuifzand I sent in a PR for the problem with the Omnibear syndication targets not being fetched.
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Zegnat [unoabraham], some markup ideas for bookmarks: https://indieweb.org/bookmark#How_to_markup
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vanderven.se martijn edited /502 (+15) "HTML RFC link" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Interesting job in London https://sensible-object.workable.com/j/8B427536E3
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schmarty alexa games!
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tantek I've realized that my brainstorming for minimal reply contexts synthesized purely from knowledge of URL structure (e.g. Github issue etc.) is actually two separate things - the "Replying to a" pre-text which is specific to a reply-context, and the synthesized summary of the url e.g. "issue n on Github project xyz"
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tantek context: https://indieweb.org/reply-context#Brainstorming
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tantek the latter can be used in a number of different contexts for providing a more human text-friendly summary of a URL if you have no other information (i.e. a URL-only h-cite, and no retrieval of the URL itself for link-preview information)
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[snarfed] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 30 karma in this channel (430 overall)
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GWG New reading material, great
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[snarfed] github is somewhat unusual in that you can get much from URLs though. other big silos, generally you just get ids, sometimes username, and only very occasionally post type
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tantek snarfed, fb you can get many post types, event, photo
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+654) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ preferring In Reply To, note synthetic summary of a URL as a component" (view diff)
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jmac pstuifzand: Check out https://github.com/jmacdotorg/microformats2-perl/tree/master/t
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jmac The "microformats-v2" folder there is a copy of a folder from https://github.com/microformats/tests
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Loqi [microformats] tests: Microformats test suite
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jmac Which is pairs of MF2 HTML snippets marked up with MF2, and the expected JSON output
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pstuifzand yeah something like that
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jmac My module's tests just cycle through those, quite literally
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pstuifzand does your module pass all tests?
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jmac Nope!
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jmac It passes a little more than half, and marks the rest as TODO
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aaronpk some of the tests are wrong!
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Zegnat I would be somewhat surprised if it passed everything :P
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jmac That's my understanding!
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pstuifzand ok, good to know
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jmac I have some questions about em that the folks here have encouraged me to ask about / file issues against, and i plan on it with my next shipment of CFT
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jmac But yeah, flaws and all I found it a great resource
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pstuifzand I found that my 50% implementation, works with ~80% of websites.
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jmac for sure
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pstuifzand And 70% of statistics are made by on the spot
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jmac I'd expect most tests to be for edge cases, by weight
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jmac but what is the web but a boiling stew of edge cases
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jmac mmm delicious
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pstuifzand I found at least a few problems with HTML::Tagset not supporting "article" and other HTML5 tags
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jmac oh god
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jmac don't get me started
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jmac Yeah apparently the best Perl module for HTML parsing is Mojo::DOM58. No, you would never know that unless someone told you.
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pstuifzand hmm, didn't know that
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pstuifzand :)
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jmac Nobody told me, so I used HTML::TreeBuilder, which is fine. But it has the issue of being an idiot with HTML5 tags, among other things
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jmac I plan to put in a pull request for that. In my CFT.
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pstuifzand I use HTML::TreeBuilder at the moment as well
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jmac It's fine!!
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pstuifzand $HTML::Tagset::isBodyElement{article} = 1;
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pstuifzand I just need a few lines like that ^^^
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jmac Same: https://github.com/jmacdotorg/microformats2-perl/blob/master/lib/Web/Microformats2/Parser.pm#L39
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pstuifzand your list seems more complete
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pstuifzand I only have 4...
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jmac salutes whatever stackoverflow page he ripped this list from
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Zegnat An interesting HTML5 parsing test was added to the PHP parser not too long ago, which also made us pick a userland HTML parser
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Zegnat jeremycherfas: the core difference between authentication and authorization is that authentication says “I am X” and authorization says “X gives permission to do Y”. So with your authentication done, an application can go to a /token endpoint/ and say “X says I should have permission for Y”, and if everything checks out it gets a /token/ that is proof of that.
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jeremycherfas So everything we were discussing was about authentication.
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Zegnat Yes
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Zegnat But both are often handled from the same login screen. E.g. selfauth can be used to authenticate as yourself, but for authorization will show little check boxes with what permissions are being asked for.
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Zegnat Because technically, the first step is always the same: communicate with an authorization endpoint to make sure you are you. And the difference is only whether I am asking to proof you are you (authentication) or also asking for some permissions I want you to give me (authorization).
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jeremycherfas Right. But essentially there are two steps, because if you cannot authenticate that I am who I say I am, there's no point offering me the checkboxes.
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jeremycherfas From what you just said, the first step is au8thentication, not authorisation.
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Zegnat Well. It happens to be the same first step. My application can send 2 different requests to your endpoint: 1) ask for authentication, 2) ask for permissions (scopes). Because if I get an answer on 2, I can assume authentication also took place.
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Zegnat So when Quill asks you to login, it is always going to ask permissions immediately.
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jeremycherfas Right,. And that's your application. I'm trying to understand the logic. Even if your app sends two requests, the first one has to be authenticate.
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Zegnat It will skip that one
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[kevinmarks] Authentication is 'it me' Authorisation is 'can I haz?'
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skippy https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6556522/authentication-versus-authorization#6556548
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Zegnat When you enter your URL into Quill, it will ask Known for a "create" permission so it can post over Micropub. If it gets a positive result back, it is happy. It isn’t going to bother with first authenticating you as you
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Zegnat Because presumably, Known wouldn’t have given a positive result if you weren’t able to login to Known ;)
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jeremycherfas But that's after having logged in to Quill.
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jeremycherfas Whcih I did by allowing it to show me my Known login.
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Zegnat That’s the login step itself.
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Zegnat Not after.
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jeremycherfas Right. So Quill already knows I am who I say I am. Cool.
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Zegnat Quill, when it doesn’t know anything about you, asks for your domain. It will check if you have all the required Micropub bits and bobs. If you have, it means you have an authorization endpoint. And it is just going to go ahead and immediately ask for posting permissions from there.
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skippy quill knows that your Known instance has accepted you as you, using whatever credentialing Known might use. Known tells Quill "this is X", and Quill accepts that.
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jeremycherfas Got it.
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+17) "/* Minimal text reply contexts */ article goes with URL summary" (view diff)
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tantek seriously rabbitholing on synthetic URL summaries
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tantek really want to get in-stream reply contexts working by HWC SF tonight, but it led me down a code refactoring rabbithold
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tantek rabbithole*
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[kevinmarks] Synthetic url summaries like http://www.kevinmarks.com/mentionquote.html
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Loqi Mentions as quotes 2015-05-22
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tantek very clever kevinmarks
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tantek made a note for future impl, in case I start using URLs like that
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tantek [jgmac1106]: instead of a credential post kind, just skip to the conclusion and make it a badge which is a response to someone else, i.e. you reply with a badge to someone else's post to award them that badge for their post.
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tantek then they can display that badge in their webmentions received, and link to your original badge reply post so anyone can verify their badge by clicking through!
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tantek presto done - badges with webmention - zero bloated JSON files needed
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aaronpk +1 for badges! i don't even know what a "credential" post means
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aaronpk also badges have a built-in fallback behavior of being just a photo reply post
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tantek aaronpk, a "credential" post means you're granting me some level of access to some thing ;)
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tantek aaronpk, true, a badge could be a special kind of photo reply
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tantek and your own "my badges" page could just be an aggregation of all the badge reply webmentions you have received!
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tantek (across all posts on your site)
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skippy my university degree is a credential; does it grant me some level of access to something, tantek ?
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tantek skippy, indeed it does, all kinds of special clubs
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tantek starting with your alumni association
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tantek :)
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aaronpk hehe yeah credentials don't always imply access control, just to further confuse the authz vs authn conversation :)
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skippy huh. i've been missing out all this time.
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tantek aaronpk haha true true
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river.cat edited /IRC_People (+74) (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Federated_Social_Web (+332) "see also links" (view diff)
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snarfed pstuifzand jmac: more html/mf2 test data if you want, 44 of them: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/tree/master/granary/test/testdata
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swentel ooooh
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swentel that is nice :)
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snarfed plus AS1 and AS2
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Semantic_Linkbacks (+11) "Changed dfn to official WP repo version" (view diff)
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Zegnat aaronpk, can you confirm, is the API for indielogin.com just IndieAuth?
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aaronpk yes, with the caveat that when you use the indielogin.com api you don't need to check the domain of the user after they finish since it handles that for you
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aaronpk also there is the option of having indielogin.com provide the web sign-in form
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aaronpk if you just don't include a "me" in the first request
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aaronpk oh that isn't documented yet
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Zegnat Ah, so I can make a link with the GET params prefilled, and then indielogin.com is going to show a form? That would be nice for some things!
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aaronpk yep!
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aaronpk that's what the wiki does actually
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swentel hmm what's the diff with indieauth.com then ?
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jkphl.is uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:hwc-nue-20180502.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:hwc-nue-20180502.jpg"
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Zegnat I didn’t see any mention of IndieAuth in the dev docs when I was reading them. And although my spidy sense was tingling, I mostly just wanted confirmation that it indeed was IndieAuth
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aaronpk it is, but I don't want to confuse that again
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aaronpk swentel: indielogin.com is a reimplementation of that part of what indieauth.com does
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Zegnat Understood, aaronpk
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gRegorLove Ooh, looks nice.
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Zegnat wonders privately if the wiki is going to use indielogin.com or is going to self-host an instance on something like login.indieweb.org
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aaronpk gRegorLove: if you want a demo try signing in to https://pin13.net/login/ although since you use indieauth.com as your authorization endpoint probably nothing will look different
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aaronpk Zegnat: i was gonna use indielogin.com, I don't see much reason to use a private instance. i could be convinced otherwise tho.
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gRegorLove Ah, is that why it went to indieauth.com? I was wondering if it would stay on indielogin.com
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aaronpk gRegorLove: yeah if you have an authorization endpoint set then it will use that, and you probably won't even see indielogin.com at all in the flow
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Zegnat gRegorLove, temporarily remove the authorization_endpoint from your HTML to see indielogin instead :)
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swentel so is indieauth.com going to go away then?
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gRegorLove Nice
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gRegorLove Should I update my authorization_endpoint to https://indielogin.com/auth then?
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aaronpk no!
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aaronpk that's phase two, myindieauth.com
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gRegorLove Heh, ok
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aaronpk indielogin.com is explicitly not an indieauth authorization endpoint
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gRegorLove I got a notice "You logged in to Twitter as gRegorLove but your website links to gregorlove
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gRegorLove "
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aaronpk oh yeah case sensitive, i need to fix that
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swentel Sooo indielogin is purely for logging into a site, what happens then with that user is up to the site, no further interaction anymore. (my)indieauth.com is for authentication for say micropub so that a site can validate access tokens coming from clients like quill and indigenous ? Is that a good summary ?
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aaronpk nope indielogin.com has nothing to do with micropub or authorization
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aaronpk oh sorry yes, i missed the myindieauth.com part
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aaronpk yes myindieauth.com will be an authorization endpoint as a service
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swentel ok, makes sense
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swentel and also, way easier to explain actually :)
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aaronpk ideally your blog software includes an authorization endpoint built in, to avoid relying on external services, but it's convenient to have one in some cases especially when starting out
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swentel mm it's really neat, I can now more easily make the distinction, especially in the documention, in the Drupal plugin
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swentel s/documention/documentation
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aaronpk oh good
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Post_Kinds_Plugin (+153) "link to github repo" (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /GDPR (+414) "Add {{sgreger}}’s big piece on IndieWeb and GDPR" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Trying indielogin with my suspended twitter account is amusing
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[kevinmarks] It gives me the auth ui, then redirects to the suspension screen
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Zegnat Aww, 2018.indieweb.org does not support a "remote yes" RSVP :(
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tantek that's not a valid RSVP value yet
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Zegnat No, but it never will be if nobody starts using it. I used it last IWS, I documented on the wiki, and I used it again now. It just didn’t get accepted.
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Zegnat Indie RSVP: https://grapefruit.zegnat.net/2018/05.html#dt201805022006Z
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Loqi I will, once again, be switching my sleeping schedule from CEST to PDT to remotely attend the IndieWeb Summit. Will I see you there?
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Zegnat Oh, interesting, Loqi didn’t get the author?
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Zegnat Hmm, I broke something
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tantek.com edited /Federated_Social_Web (-346) "move projects/specs not mentioning FSW to /federation instead, note dfn that FSW is largely a historical term now, OGP is not FSW lol" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /federation (+453) "move additions to FSW to here since they're more modern than FSW" (view diff)
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tantek hopefully that helps
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tantek swentel: I just found this https://groups.drupal.org/federated-social-web - does it have any modern relevance?
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swentel tantek, doesn't seem like it
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tantek.com edited /Federated_Social_Web_Summit (+139) "/* Berlin 2011 */ found another link about the event" (view diff)
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swentel latest post is from july 2016, so not really relevant anymore
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tantek that was going to be my guess but sometimes hard to tell with these things
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tantek.com edited /Federated_Social_Web_Summit (+445) "2014 history" (view diff)
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tantek ok hoping that's enough to discourage further adding to that article
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tantek and letting it be for historical reasons
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swentel https://www.drutopia.org/ looks interesting though, they want to implement indieweb pretty much in the core of that distro
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swentel will update the drupal pages once they get https://gitlab.com/drutopia/drutopia/issues/110 in
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tantek great!
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swentel (although I'm still not 100% sure if it's a distro or a fork, it's not very clear, but oh well)
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tantek even if it's a fork, presumably pieces could get folded back into core
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tantek Zegnat re: remote RSVP looks like only you or I have been publishing remote RSVPs at all: https://indieweb.org/rsvp#Remote_Participation
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Zegnat Yep
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tantek so that's not really enough to justify spec'ing it
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Zegnat That is not going to keep me from continueing to post it though
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tantek I post it in my visible text but I stick with supported rsvp values for my p-rsvp
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tantek I figure that's good enough for now to gather examples
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Zegnat XRay not picking up on my authorship is a bigger problem however. Even if I make 2018.indieweb.org accept the remote RSVP, it will break stuff :(
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Zegnat just wrote a patch that would make remote yes accepted
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tantek patch for what?
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Zegnat For 2018.indieweb.org
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Zegnat To see if I could make it accept my webmention
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Zegnat And I could (locally), but it breaks a lot of other stuff
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+644) "/* Remote Participation */ -0 on remote no with reasoning" (view diff)
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Zegnat The patch: https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/c181ad56e78deef36f60d9f3c4b20b6c
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+497) "/* What value could be used to? */ dash instead of space, just remote-yes, remote-maybe" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+195) "/* Remote Participation */ sign, note used remote maybe in practice" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I like remote-yes
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Zegnat But the result of sending my webmention after patch: https://i.imgur.com/iHmtWb6.png
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tantek Zegnat: see the discussion I added, I think remote is different enough that I don't think (old) event impls should take remote-yes as yes
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tantek it screws up planning for in-person aspects
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tantek similarly maybe
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Zegnat Yes, I agree, that is exactly why I will not send in a normal yes.
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Zegnat remote yes != yes
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Zegnat I guess my only reason for liking a space over dash is that it felt like additional information to the yes. And HTML already has these nice space separated token lists all over the place.
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Zegnat Will add that snippet of thought to the wiki tomorrow, I am off to bed right now :) Have a good one all!
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tantek syntax driven design is not really a good principle, or rather should be a last consideration of clean-up, not a reason to base a proposal
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tantek I think it's worse for old impls to treat "remote yes" as yes
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tantek point is it's not just "additional information" to the yes - it's a very different kind of yes
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tantek now if we had yes+1 that would be additional information
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tantek I got in-stream reply-contexts working locally!!!!
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tantek (that was so much code changed)
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tantek including custom mini reply contexts for reacji
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snarfed cool! example?
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tantek seriously can't believe this much code change "just worked"
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tantek I'm looking for bugs
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tantek alright, going to diff code changes and deploy
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tantek so much scope creep in this effort. I went from "in-stream reply contexts for reacji" to in-stream reply contexts for all replies including RSVPs including synthesized URL summaries for all
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tantek diffs verified, Falcon & CASSIS updates deployed live
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tantek snarfed, reload tantek.com, scroll down and see if you see anything different :)
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tantek (especially down to the series of 👍 posts)
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tantek alright, I've got my demo ready for tonight :D
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tantek aaronpk - hopefully my h-feed looks better in Monocle now too
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aaronpk sweet, i will find out when there is a new post
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tantek will it re-read the in-reply-to of past h-entry s also?
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aaronpk i think so
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aaronpk but it won't trigger that unless there is a new post
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tantek on it
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tantek posted
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GWG What is a badge?
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Loqi A badge (AKA achievement) is a visual indicator of completing some sort of accomplishment, usually associated with completing specific tasks within a system that is frequently recognized as "achievement unlocked", or "you unlocked the xyz badge!" https://indieweb.org/badge
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GWG What is a badge post?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "badge post" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "badge post is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Gah we don’t call them note posts either
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GWG How do I post a badge?
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GWG Maybe I should finally build indorsements
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[tantek] Gwg do you post photo replies now? You could photo reply to someone with your own badge graphic as a proto-badge post if you have such content to try posting
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GWG I have never posted a photo reply
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GWG Isn't that where your reply is just a photo?
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tantek GWG, might want to work on that first
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tantek what is a photo reply
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Loqi photo reply is a reply with a photo, thus also a photo post that is in-reply-to another post https://indieweb.org/photo_reply
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tantek !tell swentel any better now? https://twitter.com/swentel/status/984772721337929729 :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@swentel When liking things ... :) // cc @t https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaqdkhKU8AAUL6V.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/984772721337929729)
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GWG tantek, how do I get to work on Indieweb stuff more often?
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tantek GWG that is an excellent question
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tantek aaronpk, snarfed did my h-feed update not work for you?
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GWG I thought you might think so
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snarfed tantek: sorry, not sure what you mean
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aaronpk tantek: i don't think it's polled yet
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GWG aaronpk, that reminds me...is there a way to test how a site renders in your system?
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tantek snarfed, you asked for an "example?"
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snarfed ah. yes, i saw, looks good!
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aaronpk GWG: no but that is a good idea
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tantek ok phew making sure at least someone else saw it live :)
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aaronpk closest is parsing via xray and looking at the properties it finds, but that takes a bit of thinking to understand how it will be rendered
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tantek aaronpk, polling? does that mean my websub notifying is broken or is Aperture not susbscribing via websub?
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aaronpk i haven't done websub yet
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tantek.com edited /Aperture (+103) "FAQ / WebSub support" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk, you sent a screenshot, would you be willing to build a form that renders a specific post or feed using your system? It would be very useful as a debug tool
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GWG I do check xray sometimes
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aaronpk yeah i would like to do that
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aaronpk it will have to accept a feed since aperture doesn't actually parse post permalinks yet
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GWG I also have my own version in Post Kinds, although I was thinking of abandoning regex parsing
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GWG I hear good things about domdocument.
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[manton] [aaronpk] You might find this interesting... I'm working on Instagram .zip import and want to make sure that it doesn't create duplicates if someone already has used OwnYourGram. Incredibly, the date/time in the Instagram media.json file appears to be in local time. No time zone. (I was going to use the post time to match things up on Micro.blog-hosted sites.)
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aaronpk oh gosh
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aaronpk i do a little trick in ownyourgram where if the photo has a location, I localize the timestamp to that location
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aaronpk since IIRC the website only has the UTC date
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aaronpk yeah the website json data is just a unix timestamp
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aaronpk :(
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aaronpk i feel like instagram went out of the way to make the export as difficult to use as possible
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aaronpk while still being able to justify that it includes 'everything'
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[manton] It gets a little worse the more I look at it.
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[manton] I'd be fine with UTC. But with just my local city time and no timezone info, makes it really difficult to assume anything about the date.
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aaronpk yup
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aaronpk can you tell whether the timestamps are local to your home timezone or local to where the picture was taken?
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[manton] Good question, lemme find one from another city.
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aaronpk like if you posted a photo in a different timezone, is it local to that timezone? cause that would be the dealbreaker
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aaronpk if they're all austin time then at least you could ask the user to select their home timezone and adjust from there
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aaronpk super not ideal but it would work
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GWG [manton]: Speaking of TZ, how often do you look at the PRs for WP-JSONFeed?
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[manton] [aaronpk] On first glance, I do think they are all in Austin time. That is better, you're right.
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aaronpk well at least there's that. so annoying though.
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[manton] @GWG I look at them when they come in but I'm really behind merging them and updating the WordPress.org repo. Need to catch up on that.
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aaronpk this doesn't apply to what you're doing, but here are the shortcomings i found https://aaronparecki.com/2018/04/25/7/instagram
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GWG [manton]: If you need help, tell me. I just submitted two last night and I have more ideas.
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Just downloaded my @instagram dump and I'm pretty disappointed. 😔 • My comments include only the comment text, a timestamp, and the photo author. No way to know what I'm commenting on • Same for photos I've liked • There's no indication of ...
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