[jgarber]Looking forward to that test making its way to webmention.rocks. I’ll have some code changes to make, but the Ruby lib will be better off for the extra tests. 👏
snarfedok. mind explaining in the method docstring? something like, "this method checks the token if provided, but if not, it passes through $user_id as is, since it's a filter." or whatever language you want
[pfefferle]GWG aaronpk shouldn‘t we implement a simple class to parse h-App? I think it is a very simple and uncomplicated format so it would be a bit too much to include the mf2 parser!?!
aaronpkYeah you'll end up creating lots of fun new edge case errors if you try to parse a microformat with anything other than a real microformats parser
ZegnatYou could have a smaller mf2 parser by assuming the objects you are parsing will not make use of certain things. E.g. h-app authors will never use vcp, and will only use p- and u- properties. But that breaks as soon as someone does uses anything outside of your limitations.
GWGI just submitted a PR for logging every Micropub error to the error_log if debugging is on. Going to do the same in IndieAuth when I return from work.
aaronpkI don't love the idea, but the other option here is to use meta tags like the Twitter/FB tags. If too many people building this stuff end up getting turned off of the idea that their authorization server needs to parse microformats then it's worth considering tho
[pfefferle]Because there are some plugins that use the mf2 parser atm. And the version might differ, so we really can get some strange side effects if the indieauth plugin includes the wrong lib version
ZegnatRight, I guess there isn’t some sort of dependency management for WP to make sure all the plugins only ever grab one specific version of the mf2 parser
Zegnataaronpk, it only requires name/logo/url, right? Name is tricky, could be <title> if we are only talking about HTML. logo and url could be rel-icon and rel-self, probably. Which means they would work in HTML <link> elements, in any XML flavour that does link (atom:link), as well as HTTP Link headers.
aaronpk<title> might work but sometimes people put a lot of stuff in the title like a small description or tag line, so that could look weird on the authorization screen
ZegnatOfficially only with namespaces, right, [pfefferle]? So we would have to introduce a new app namespace for OGP? I am not sure what kind of upkeep that requires and might be a bit much to tack onto the IndieAuth spec.
ZegnatIf you want embedded structured data inside of HTML, that is relatively easy to parse with minimal code, OGP or JSON-LD sound like the ways to go
ludovicchabantCool, looking at the chat log I learned about cleverdevil’s ditchbook! Might try it with Twitter (I don’t want to bring Facebook stuff to my website since those were semi-private while my website is public)
ludovicchabantCool, looking at the chat log I learned about cleverdevil’s ditchbook! Might try it with Twitter (I don’t want to bring Facebook stuff to my website since those were semi-private while my website is public)
ZegnatI think I captured the problem with a boiled down parser for h-app, the problem with requiring mf2 parsers, and the list of possible alternatives mentioned in the chat
ZegnatI ran into <meta name="application-name"> as a much better alternative to <title> for app name. And now I am kinda loving the standard-HTML alternative
[pfefferle]> This specification defines a JSON-based manifest file that provides developers with a centralized place to put metadata associated with a web application.
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "difference" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "difference is ____", a sentence describing the term)
ZegnatUrg, I just read the HTML spec also limited the use of <meta title="application-name"> to “Web application”. Though it doesn’t define what it means by that.
[pfefferle]aaronpk sure, but it does not have to be a pwa, at least is the spec not saying it, but I understand the point with the extra request... still seems to be the „cleanest“ way for me (does that make sense in English?)
ZegnatJSON-LD would let us use an existing vocabulary (schema.org/SoftwareApplication), but I don’t think anyone really wants to exchange the mf2 parser with a JSON-LD parser
ZegnatI am going through possible <meta> names (https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions) and spotted this one for the category of things I did not know about: <meta name="pinterest" content="nopin"/>
[kevinmarks]I'm going to be indieweb clippy here: it looks like you're trying to invent a microformat. Would you like me to point you at microformats.org/wiki/process ?
ZegnatI am just not sure how this collection is going to show us anything, apart from which tools include h-app (like Quill) and which do not (like Telegraph and shpub)
ZegnatLots of early implementations coming out of IndieWeb people, who may have a bit of a bias against those extra meta data elements, is probably not going to help ;)
ZegnatNow that I have a list of client_id’s, I can see what other metadata they have in common. I have seen multiple rel-icon and also a couple of apple touch icons. Few rel-manifest too.
aaronpksomehow I suspect most of my target audience for this is not going to go for that, as demonstrated by this first occurrence in the Wordpress plugin
aaronpkit’s enoguh of a mental leap to go from “you must register for an api key” to “you don’t need to register because everything is a url” and I don’t want to also throw in microformats into the mix
[eddie]Just reading about the h-app, h-x-app stuff. I do have to say, while I’ve found Microformats to be extremely helpful in many cases, mf2 in the IndieAuth process is the biggest friction I’ve ever found. I wouldn’t be opposed to there being a different way to find client info from a url
[eddie]Easy to add mf2 to an app’s page. But when writing IndieAuth client code, you either have to add an mf2 library just for that one step or roll your own just for the h-app stage which typically ends up buggy
Zegnat[eddie]: thanks for the update to the table. I thought I pulled the client IDs correctly straight from the GitHub repos... Don't actually have any of the clients installed to test.
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "Zero Registration" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Zero Registration is ____", a sentence describing the term)
[eddie]Zegnat: the client ids started as the root before I realized that ios and android needed different client ids, so I might not have the correct info everywhere
[eddie]If anyone has android and wants to see if Indigenous website with a basic webmanifest creates any strange prompts for “installing the web app”, I’ve added a manifest to the homepage: https://indigenous.abode.pub/ios/
[eddie]I put in name, icons, prefer_related_applications and related_applications. The last two aren’t required obviously, but helpful if browsers decide to use that to prompt for App Store links.
[eddie][manton] Out of curiosity, if I remember correctly Micro.blog did not add the Client Information Discovery step into it’s IndieAuth (https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#client-information-discovery) was that because of the complexity or just for lack of time? If the Client Information Discovery was a JSON file you could grab the url and parse, would you have been more likely to add it or would you still have delayed that implementation?
[eddie]Yeah, I figure before working on getting it working, it would be helpful to get feedback from someone like Manton that seems interested in IndieAuth but that didn’t implement the mf2 discovery
tantek__also if y'all have opinions about webmanifest please do share - I'm tangentially involved with that stuff at w3c and would appreciate improving it
Zegnattantek__, do you know what the official discovery process is for finding the manifest? I only recall some non-normative section about <link> elements.
ZegnatYeah, that’s the only part I saw in the spec. And was a little surprised that discovery was only covered by a single non-normative example in a non-normative “Usage Examples” chapter
[eddie]That is interesting, isn’t it, Zegnat! Like you said, they might not all be valid but its telling that there are already that many manifests available.
aaronpk[manton]: which version of this sounds better for you to implement? Parsing for h-app microformats or making another http request to the app manifest and parsing that JSON?
Zegnat5 of the manifest pages do not have h-app, so comparing is out, I’m afraid. But from what I have seen, h-app is usually correct, because the people who added it followed aaronpk’s examples to the tee
tantek__I'd be interested in figuring out if we should either keep h-app or make an h-manifest that just uses the same property names as webmanifest, and either way, create a generator so publishers could auto-generate their webmanifest JSON from the h-app / h-manifest
tantek__but on the consuming side, if devs prefer to do the 2nd http request to get the JSON, then it makes sense to standardize on that as the interface
[eddie]Zegnat: Good question. Right now it’s just a static .webmanifest file. I guess I need to tell my nginx that .webmanifest files are application/manifest+json
Loqi[Zegnat] The table above has been updated with new statistics. This shows that `rel="manifest"` are equally as likely to be found on client pages as `h-x-app`. This Web App Manifests may be a more logical alternative than previously realised.
Further devel...
ZegnatAdded a few more data points to the table. If anyone knows more places that will let you login with IndieAuth (to do anything!) please add them to the wiki table. Even if you don’t have time to document the rest, someone else can do that. Just collecting all the different client_id values is valuable!
@wp2staticWith static sites allowing free and diverse hosting options and #webmentions as cross ecosystem pingbacks, it’s time to dust-off your old blog/personal site, comment out the #dancingbabies and own your own home on the net again. Web 1.0 Hyper Edition! (twitter.com/_/status/1031289316608172032)
[stefp], snarfed, Lildirt and bradenslen joined the channel
Loqisnarfed: Zegnat left you a message 12 hours, 31 minutes ago: No, my endpoint discovery code does not have integrated caching. That'll be up to the lib user.
@kevinmarks ↩️ So, these are both solved in the underlying protocols. Migration of followers is there in websub, with tests and everything https://github.com/w3c/websub/issues/98
The separation of fetching of feeds and display ui is addressed in microsub: https://indieweb.org/Microsub (twitter.com/_/status/1030979397719941120)
@dshanske ↩️ People continued working on it. Everything you need using W3C standards like Webmention, Microformats2…give it a try? https://IndieWeb.org/WordPress/Plugins (https://david.shanske.com/2018/08/18/2048/) (twitter.com/_/status/1030980083446673411)
loqi.me edited /DiSo_Project (+45) "tantek__ added "https://diso-project.org/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
snarfed [eddie]: afaik twitter archive JSON is API objects, so you should be able to use https://github.com/cleverdevil/ditchbook almost exactly as is
[cleverdevil] I’ve never bothered with Twitter.
[pfefferle] GWG aaronpk shouldn‘t we implement a simple class to parse h-App? I think it is a very simple and uncomplicated format so it would be a bit too much to include the mf2 parser!?!
Zegnat aaronpk, it only requires name/logo/url, right? Name is tricky, could be <title> if we are only talking about HTML. logo and url could be rel-icon and rel-self, probably. Which means they would work in HTML <link> elements, in any XML flavour that does link (atom:link), as well as HTTP Link headers.
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "difference is ____", a sentence describing the term)
[kevinmarks] I'm going to be indieweb clippy here: it looks like you're trying to invent a microformat. Would you like me to point you at microformats.org/wiki/process ?
tantek.com created /rdf (+17) "create due to linking from a tweet (a URL that must have been typed in haste since it wasn't checked)" (view diff)
@jgmac1106 Update on Badging with Webmentions: http://jgregorymcverry.com/update-on-badging-with-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1031233187303833601)
[eddie] This is what we’re talking about, right? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest
tantek__ ZoRg is /Zero_Registration
aaronpk all mine came from https://realfavicongenerator.net
@danielCK Trying out webmention support on my blog: https://danielkoskinen.com/trying-out-webmention-support-on-my-blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/1031262935035904000)
@wp2static With static sites allowing free and diverse hosting options and #webmentions as cross ecosystem pingbacks, it’s time to dust-off your old blog/personal site, comment out the #dancingbabies and own your own home on the net again. Web 1.0 Hyper Edition! (twitter.com/_/status/1031289316608172032)
[grantcodes] Zegnat: Would be interesting to see the authors of those clients you have listed. It seems like the majority of people have more than one