[tantek]but since you're looking for a feed specifically, and find a few, none of which has a url / uid that matches the page, then you can pick the first one
mblaneyWhen subscribing to a feed I first do feed discovery, so in tantek's case I should be returning all the h-feeds on the page as individual subscribe options.
sknebeldon't put u-urls on them. and if they aren't html pages, add a type= parameter (although if it is user-visible links, I personally would link to html pages and have those link to Atom/RSS, so users can easily view the feed manually, and if at all put atom/rss feeds in <link> tags in <head>)
ZegnatThere is a bit of a discussion about whether u-url is right for external silos. Some people have them (I think tantek and I are examples) because those profile pages are other instances of me thus a url property of my h-card.
Zegnath-feed name, or example list of “these items”. That feels like a UI thing readers may have to tackle anyway, pages with multiple feeds linked aren’t rare
[kevinmarks]So if you have multiple h-feed on a page should they have different html id so they can potentially be extracted independently? And put the id in the u-url link?
sknebeleven xray is limited there though (e.g. in some cases it breaks authorship), and nothing else handles it yet as far as I know. so it's certainly a possible proposal, but nothing I'd recommend now as "do this"
Zegnatsknebel, yeah, I was thinking people would pick the feed and the reader would be subscribing to something like “the second h-feed on tantek.com”. That is of course very brittle
Zegnatu-uid == u-url is a nice way of being able to say that specific mf object represents the URL (as it is the mf object whos unique id is the particular url), but unique ids can be whatever
jgmac1106I have never understood the difference between u-uid and u-url because def of u-uid says “canonical url” and u-url says “typically homepage” how often are those different?
Zegnat[kevinmarks]: I sometimes feel like some of those pages just need to be marked as archival pages. It isn’t even always clear how and if they apply to mf2 pages
[kevinmarks]We use u-url in a lot of places. It's legit to have multiple urls. The u-uid one is supposed to be definitive for the item, like rel=canonical is.
jgmac1106“: uid is the canonical URL for the mf2 object (i.e. the h-card or h-entry)” you should change the def on mf2 wiki to say that..so much more clear
[manton][aaronpk] No, not intentional... Maybe a side effect of now sending Webmentions when someone @-mentions a domain name. Hmm. Do you have an example post, or is it all posts?
[schmarty]micropub media endpoint that returns the URL of the uploaded file in the body. micropub endpoint that accepts `video[]`. also since it's workflow you have to type in your micropub and media endpoint URLs and get a token from *somewhere* that'll work with both.
Loqimigration in the context of the indieweb refers to the process of moving your indieweb site from any one or more of one CMS / web host / DNS provider / URL design / domain name to another https://indieweb.org/migration
[tantek]Hey all - anyone run into the problem/challenge of (hash)tags cannot have spaces but category (e.g. WordPress) and labels (e.g. GitHub)? I *think* have a brainstormed an answer that I plan to implement but wanted to first check if anyone else has had this problem, has solved it etc.
[tantek](Use-case: I use hashtags in my authoring for convenience which get auto-marked up as p-category, and then I depend on those to POSSE as Labels to GitHub when I POSSE issues or tag-of replies)
[cleverdevil]First, export data into some structured format, then write a script to transform the exported content to MF2 JSON, then publish via Micropub.
Zegnat[tantek]: I think both sknebel and I use categories / “tags” with spaces in them on our blogs. But I for one do not syndicate so never run into limitations about it
chrisaldrichtantek, I want to say I've seen something along those lines hiding in the WordPress repository before. Search there, though maybe use hashtag and category without "Twitter" in your search.
[tantek]summary: if you have a hashtag UI (e.g. enter hashtags directly in text in your post like you would on Twitter, IG, etc.), then use _ when you mean a space. If you actually mean _ then use __. Then in your markup, use abbr to markup the p-category explicitly with a space, which is what will be picked up by anything syndicating
[tantek]but sometime in the past 5-10 years, Google started treating underscores in URLs as "spaces" just as much as hyphens, likely due to MediaWiki URLs
[tantek]nope I was going to autogenerate the ABBR! but that's easy processing on my end to turn plain text -> marked up text, e.g. autolinker, autoembedding etc.
aaronpkyou want bridgy publish to syndicate the category with a space? what do you want to show up in readers? the space version or the underscore version?
[tantek]Zegnat how do you enter categories on your posts if not by just typing a hashtag? Do you have a separate UI you have to click through to explicitly add categories?
[tantek]right, the convenience of just typing hashtags in-flow in the text to me far outweighs the hassle of clicking and managing a separate field. fewer UI elements, less cognitive load etc.
[tantek]actually likely never, since I'll likely implement Micropub support long before that, and just use Quill if I somehow have an actual use-case that needs that separate UI
ZegnatI think the different in interpertations of tags just comes to the use-case. E.g. I am a big fan of using them to mindmap stuff, kinda like how you can discover cool stuff on kottke by clicking through tags. Those tags are more like labels, aren’t always in the actual content.
sebselI have it both: the post has a comma separated list of all the categories, but then on render I regex for #[a-z]+ (but better) and add all those to the list as well
[tantek][sebsel] interested in your "regex for #@a-z+ (but better)" as I have found that challenging (I'm using a coarse approximation right now that's not great)
sebsel[tantek] I am using this one right now, I believe Zegnat helped me with it: '/(?<=^|(?<=[^\w\.]))\\\\?(@|\+|#)([a-z][\w\.\-\/]+[\w\-\/])(?:\[(.+?)\])?/i'
[tantek][eddie] but the UI on your permalinks is then confusing because I click the twitter icon next to the syndication and tags and it just takes me to your twitter profile. similar with the others next to it (not the ones in the footer)
Loqihashtags are the use of the hash "#" symbol followed immediately by a word/phrase/abbreviation to explicitly denote a topic inline in a post https://indieweb.org/hashtag
Loqi[eddiehinkle.com] I just added support for the Micropub Category List query to my website. Looking forward to adding support to Indigenous for iOS in the near future as well. This is the first of many goals completed for #newwwyear 2019.
[eddie]The good news is that means when I fix my code to work properly with bridgy for saving my syndicated url into my post, the same thing will work with IndieNews
[schmarty]sebsel: i found it difficult to step through on my mobile. the tricky points were all the manual entry for my endpoints, copying the code out of the redirected URL, and then getting the *contents* of the final token, which my phone presented as a file that it in no way wanted to open or preview.
[schmarty]a pair of workflows could clean that up. first, a workflow (probably using a a proxy service) parses your "me" URL for your endpoints, then sends you off to auth. after the "failed" redirect, send that URL to a second workflow which can pull the code and finish the fetch.
sebselIt's so weird tho, they translated everything into Dutch for me. So 'dictonary' becomes 'woordenboek', which is what we call it, but still... it feels like a literal book with words :P
[tantek]it's exactly what was *missing* from the old feed-centric thinking of all the "RSS Readers" and RSS/Atom wars etc. which allowed social media to sweep in and win users by designing with person-centric thinking instead
KartikPrabhuif the objective is to follow feeds that flow can be simplified: * Can I subscribe to tantek.com? ** Does tantek.com advertise a rel-feed URL? No. # ** Does tantek.com contain a feed? Yes! *** Three feeds are found, ask user which one to follow.
[tantek]the objective should not be primarily to "follow feeds", rather it should be to "follow people". rando feeds that are not associated with people (or orgs) should an edge case, not a driving design
petermolnardifferent cases, [tantek], both are useful. following a feed might be a subset of a person's full presence, you may not want to follow a complete life
[chrisaldrich]Julien Genestoux has a pretty solid discovery too in SubToMe, but sadly it finds nothing to allow me to follow at tantek.com. Of course, not all of the feed readers in its system may be able to deal with h-feed either.
LoqiSubToMe is a button that content publishers can put on their sites which enables users to subscribe to their feed in whatever reader they choose — sort of a universal follow button https://indieweb.org/SubToMe
[tantek]re: "following a feed might be a subset of a person's full presence, you may not want to follow a complete life" that is only half correct. Good use-case identification but wrong abstraction IMO
[tantek]if a person clicked to follow a subset of a person's presence, then capture *that* knowledge, both that there was an attempt to follow a person and that there was a preference to follow a subset. NOT "following this feed" disconnected from any notion of person
[tantek]once your UI/code assumes "just follow this one feed" you have completely lost the context of what the user was asking for, which was for a *person*'s particular *subset*
sebsel[schmarty] yeah also big thanks to aaronpk for Xray, because parsing the HTML to get the rel's for the endpoints out would be a real pain otherwise ;)
[tantek]use-case you just met someone at a conference so just want to follow their quick real-time updates (notes, maybe photos), but later decide you want to follow their articles too. if your reader is person-centric, you can easily see what other aspects you can follow. if your reader is feed-centric, you have lost that context and have to go research what to go follow
[tantek]jacky it's a combination of specifying what algorithm to do that traversal (it's not really parsing, you have already built a data structure from all the text), and then a library to implement the algorithm
[jgmac1106]Part of my thinking that my preferred feeds should be in my h-card. You meet me at conference and check out which feeds you want.....but Love idea of arranging readers around people
[tantek]"Social Media" understood designing for/about *people* ("arranging ... around people"), while all the plumbing-centric devs kept arguing about *feed*-readers
[tantek][jgmac1106] Twitter shows lots of things. the "following too many people" problem goes beyond Twitter. note that "following too many *feeds*" was *worse* than following too many people
[tantek]so it was a relief to switch from "too many feeds to read, never caught up in my RSS Reader that looks like a bad email client" to - wow, breath of fresh air, I can follow only the *people* I want to and have fewer "things" to manage than I did before!
KartikPrabhuactually, that is a big problem I have with twitter. I follow people but sometimes I am inundated with tweets on topics that I don't find very interesting
[jgmac1106]So here is my UI dream, person has a follow button. I click it. I then get to select which feeds to follow and then which channels to put them in. I publish a following post, their h-card gets syndicated to my following page
[tantek][jgmac1106] skip the "select which feeds to follow and then which channels to put them in." - that's "work" as I mentioned above. Instead, list the people you've followed, and (much later if you wish!) be able to "triangle open" each of them to view the different aspects/topics/posttypes they share, and be able to uncheck (mute) them as you wish. later you may "triangle open" them and unmute aspects.
[jgmac1106]Makes sense... I also want to connect this to ethics and display as well... Two way follow, 1st , one way follow, friend of friend, have webmention endpoint, everyone else
[kevinmarks] If you have more than one feed, naming them is a good idea.
[jgmac1106] I am building my list of feeds now, debating where to put it, might add a follow me section somewhere
petermolnar whee, my silo.pasta, along with creating an opml, now syncs with miniflux for subscriptions
sknebel don't put u-urls on them. and if they aren't html pages, add a type= parameter (although if it is user-visible links, I personally would link to html pages and have those link to Atom/RSS, so users can easily view the feed manually, and if at all put atom/rss feeds in <link> tags in <head>)
[manton] [aaronpk] I'm looking into an issue with M.b and Webmention.io, trying to figure out if I made a recent change to break things or if it's new behavior with h-card... Here's an example of a reply post on Micro.blog that isn't being recognized from Webmention.io: http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmicro.blog%2Fbsag%2F1059235&html=&pretty=on
aaronpk [manton]: i'm noticing i am now getting webmentions from pages like https://micro.blog/aaronpk, is that intentional?
[schmarty] anyone who wants to try an iOS shortcut / workflow to post Live Photos to their site as looping videos via micropub, you'll need:
@12velectronics I liked a @YouTube video http://youtu.be/l7a4aM4YJE0?a JL Audio W3v3 MicroSub™ Product Spotlight (twitter.com/_/status/1063483487045455872)
Loqi migration in the context of the indieweb refers to the process of moving your indieweb site from any one or more of one CMS / web host / DNS provider / URL design / domain name to another https://indieweb.org/migration
jacky ah yeah this is it https://indieweb.org/data_portability
[cleverdevil] I have done tons of migrations from different apps/services to my website.
chrisaldrich tantek, I want to say I've seen something along those lines hiding in the WordPress repository before. Search there, though maybe use hashtag and category without "Twitter" in your search.
[tantek] summary: if you have a hashtag UI (e.g. enter hashtags directly in text in your post like you would on Twitter, IG, etc.), then use _ when you mean a space. If you actually mean _ then use __. Then in your markup, use abbr to markup the p-category explicitly with a space, which is what will be picked up by anything syndicating
Zegnat field called tags: https://licit.li/edit/5ae99cc52af2b
[eddie] so I can't say link to https://news.indieweb.org/en/eddies-post which is fine, because I don't think that needs to exist
@til_mb ↩️ Combining fixes, a new username feature, and disclosure of back-end reply processing from the past few months, the first release covered Webmention improvements: https://www.manton.org/2018/10/09/webmention-improvements-on.html (twitter.com/_/status/1063554263526375424)
sebsel jacky it should be 201 or 202 :) https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#h-response
KartikPrabhu if the objective is to follow feeds that flow can be simplified: * Can I subscribe to tantek.com? ** Does tantek.com advertise a rel-feed URL? No. # ** Does tantek.com contain a feed? Yes! *** Three feeds are found, ask user which one to follow.