#dev 2019-05-07

2019-05-07 UTC
KartikPrabhu and treora joined the channel
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@wikipediachain ↩️ HTML > Abaco (web browser) > Arena (web browser) > XSLT elements > Webmention > C-HTML > Sony Ericsson K550 > Sony Ericsson P900 > ARM9 (twitter.com/_/status/1125620672011689984)
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[tantek] This is a very good problem statement for /Vouch https://twitter.com/marcoarment/status/1125543048950185984
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[tantek] GWG ^^^
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[tantek] Vouch << Succinct problem statement: https://twitter.com/marcoarment/status/1125543048950185984
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@marcoarment @jsnell @JasperTootsi @imyke @_upgradefm Your instincts are correct. I never want to create a venue that can be used to harass people or spread hate or abuse. Any public commenting system requires constant moderation to avoid that, and I neither have nor want the resources to run that kind of moderation. (twitter.com/_/status/1125543048950185984)
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Loqi ok, I added "Succinct problem statement: https://twitter.com/marcoarment/status/1125543048950185984" to the "See Also" section of /Vouch https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=60727&oldid=60650
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@jgierer12 Testing webmentions for my website https://jonasgierer.com (twitter.com/_/status/1125646962571788289)
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Zegnat GWG, [manton], did anyone capture the big-icons-on-micro.blog? Would make for a good extra example on https://indieweb.org/Fatwigoo
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[tantek] Oooh, just saw this via annevk - for anyone who displays "time since" or "local time" on their post permalinks etc., perhaps consider Github's open source web components for this: https://github.com/github/time-elements
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[tantek] what is time
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Loqi [github] time-elements: Web component extensions to the standard <time> element.
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Loqi “Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.” — The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy https://indieweb.org/time
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[tantek] time << https://github.com/github/time-elements
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/github/time-elements" to a brand new "See Also" section of /time https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=60735&oldid=30538
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Loqi [github] time-elements: Web component extensions to the standard <time> element.
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[Sonny] hey I'm a bit confused with microsub, I understand it is a reader server<-> reader client standard, what is the recommanded IndieWeb standard for blog <-> reader server ?
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cweiske feeds
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[Sonny] as in atom/rss feeds?
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cweiske yes. you might count h-feeds in it, too
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[jgmac1106] survey on facebook and trust if there are any facebook users left here
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[jgmac1106] https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TPQ65JS
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Zegnat It is up to the reader server to support what it wants, [Sonny]. But most people here would recommand atom/h-feed/rss.
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Zegnat microformats' h-feed is nice because it is inside the HTML (no side-files or extra copies of content) and can somewhat easier support different post types (for the social network feel). But has his own cons (cweiske blogged about that a bit, IIRC)
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[Sonny] I understand, I think I got confused because I was expecting a new "feed" protocol for serverless
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Zegnat Unlike what people think, we do like reusing parts that are already in use by many ;) There was little reason to reinvent the feed, I guess
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[Sonny] makes sense to me
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[Rose] what is microsub
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Loqi Microsub provides a standardized way for reader apps to interact with feeds https://indieweb.org/microsub
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[Rose] Did you see this page before Sonny? If yes, could you tell us which part(s) weren't clear?
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[Sonny] I did, I think linking "feeds" in the first sentence to https://indieweb.org/feed would clarify things for me, I'd do it but I don't have IndieAuth yet 🙂
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[Rose] Done 😄
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[Sonny] thanks!
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[Rose] It's always worth asking what confuses people 😛
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[kevinmarks] what do you mean by serverless in this context, Sonny?
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[Sonny] no need for "subscription" server (basically what microsub is)
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[Sonny] so my app <-> my blog
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[Sonny] but microsub totally makes sense, I'm just back from 12 years of absence in a time where micropub was xml-rpc and we only had one device 🙂
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Zegnat There are proposal extensions for Microsub to let it query posts from your blog. That way “my app <-> my blog” can be much closer to what people are used to where their own posts show up and can be editted.
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Zegnat *Micropub, not Microsub
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Zegnat That way you do not need a Microsub server for your editor app to get previous posts from your own site
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[Sonny] that's exactly what I expected from microsub due to its name
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[tantek] [Sonny] cweiske is correct. Plus WebSub for real-time updates (using any of those feed formats) instead of polling: https://tantek.com/2018/024/t4/websub-recommendation
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[tantek] Aww why no preview Loqi?
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Zegnat Hmm, content and author are all there in XRay (used by Loqi)... Maybe Loqi is moody
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Zegnat gives Loqi a cookie
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Loqi jumps on the cookie
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Zegnat Again?!
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[tantek] How about the POSSE copy? https://twitter.com/t/status/956354767596539904
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@t #WebSub is now a @W3C Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-websub-20180123/ Supported by @Google @WordPress etc. #implementnow Congrats @Julien51 @aaronpk! So stop polling so much, start SUBscribing to WEB pages for changes! #openweb #indieweb #webstandards… http://tantek.com/2018/024/t4/websub-recommendation https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUWnl3wVoAA9-eF.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/956354767596539904)
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[tantek] Yeah see like that
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[tantek] Folks using database backed websites, consider answering this: https://twitter.com/timbray/status/1125533782214303747
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@timbray What's the Rails of 2019? Say I wanna get a decent-looking database-backed website on the air double quick, am willing to code but less is better, what are my best choices? [I’m a little out of touch with the conventional wisdom.] [I’m sure that one answer is “Rails”.] (twitter.com/_/status/1125533782214303747)
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[eddie] Zegnat: maybe Loqi isn’t a morning bot. (Morning in it’s home timezone lol)
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Loqi [eddie]: [Rose] left you a message 1 day, 5 hours ago: you be open to a pull request to add colour theming to Indigenous? (I would love to be able to change that orange, and offering a few built in theme colours with a switcher and matching icons might be nice)
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[Rose] ^ Opened an issue for theming. Which we can get to in due course 😉
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[eddie] 👍
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Zegnat [tantek]: I found the indie-config iframe bug in Firefox and CC:ed you (if I understand Bugzilla right…)
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Zegnat Also made note that the original bug as described is still in effect as of today’s nightly
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[tantek] 👍
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snarfed hey jacky just fyi your webmention handler is still 500ing. example: https://fed.brid.gy/log?start_time=1557238180&key=https%3A%2F%2Fplayvicious.social%2Fusers%2Fjalcine%2Fstatuses%2F102054094423093872%2Factivity+https%3A%2F%2Fv2.jacky.wtf%2Fpost%2Ffba5629c-4447-4287-9a84-51881134bd97
[stefp], [jgmac1106], [calumryan], callMeBaby, [cleverdevil], snarfed, [tantek], [frank] and [grantcodes] joined the channel
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[grantcodes] Eventually made some decent progress on the microsub (+micropub) graphql server. But now I am probably going to need to do mf2 -> jf2 conversion for some stuff and maybe the other direction too.
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[grantcodes] Anyone have any functions to do this yet that I can basically copy?
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[grantcodes] I'll get my current work on the server on github in the next few days 🙂 Would love some feedback if anyone understands graphql better than me 😛
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[Rose] This was Eddie's code! https://eddiehinkle.com/2019/03/13/5/code/
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Loqi [Eddie Hinkle] nintendo-switch-importer.ts
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[cleverdevil] 🤔
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[cleverdevil] :thumbsup:
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[cleverdevil] Eddie's is more sophisticated than mine. He checks for participating players, etc.
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[Rose] I would love to see your code.
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[Rose] I am a fan of simple, and I never do multiplayer
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[cleverdevil] I'll see if I can find some time today 🙂
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[Sonny] interested too
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[cleverdevil] For now [Rose] and [Sonny] - https://github.com/cleverdevil/switchpub
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Loqi [cleverdevil] switchpub: Code that I use to publish my Nintendo Switch activity to my website via reverse engineering the Switch Parental Controls API.
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[cleverdevil] Again, very specific to me in places.
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[cleverdevil] But, definitely could be used as a starting point.
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[cleverdevil] I will write up a detailed blog post at some point soon as well 🙂
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[Rose] That's ok, it and Eddie's code are both logged under my project idea for this 🙂
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[cleverdevil] 🙂
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[frank] [cleverdevil] ++
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Loqi [cleverdevil] has 30 karma in this channel over the last year (77 in all channels)
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[frank] [eddie] ++
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Loqi [eddie] has 36 karma in this channel over the last year (95 in all channels)
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@smahate Testing webmention https://bitworking.org/news/2019/05/webmention-on-google-cloud-run (twitter.com/_/status/1125816458959831040)
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jacky snarfed: I just re-ran that request manually and it gave a 202. is there a way to get more debugging information? https://fed.brid.gy/log?start_time=1557238180&key=https%3A%2F%2Fplayvicious.social%2Fusers%2Fjalcine%2Fstatuses%2F102054094423093872%2Factivity+https%3A%2F%2Fv2.jacky.wtf%2Fpost%2Ffba5629c-4447-4287-9a84-51881134bd97
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snarfed jacky: everything bridgy fed knows is in that log...except maybe the response body, but i kind of doubt that had anything useful
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snarfed are you looking for something specific?
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jacky yeah like a header value, I tag all logs with a request ID
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snarfed oh yeah i don't log full http headers for every request, that would be too mujch
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jacky makes sense!
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snarfed hopefully timestamp can get you to it in your own logs?
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jacky yeah!
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snarfed looks like it's pretty consistent, eg two more at the top of https://fed.brid.gy/responses
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[Rose] Snarfed, while you're here. Am I reading the instructions to add a Silo correctly when I think I need to modify the oauth-dropins repo too?
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snarfed [Rose]: yup! that one first (generally), then granary, then bridgy
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snarfed https://bridgy.readthedocs.io/#adding-a-new-silo , right?
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[Rose] Gotcha, I was a bit stumped to start with, I didn't realise I'd have to edit multiple repos.
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[Rose] Yes
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snarfed reuse++, libraries, all that jazz
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Loqi reuse has 1 karma over the last year
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snarfed exciting! remind me which silo? i assume not linkedin
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[Rose] Reddit
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[Rose] Specifically, syndicating to Reddit profiles, and then I also want to work on backfeed,
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snarfed oh right!
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snarfed cool!
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[Rose] Seems like a good one to start with,
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snarfed feel free to update https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/505 as you go with anything you learn about the API, progress, open questions, etc
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Loqi [singpolyma] #505 Reddit: publish comments and votes, backfeed replies
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[Rose] Will do.
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jacky what is koype
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Loqi Koype is an open-source project that aims to provide a one-stop shop for those looking for a single-tenant Web service to own-your-data https://indieweb.org/Koype
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jacky hmm
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[frank] I try to experiment with some of the API possibilities of Aperture (hosted version of [aaronpk]) but with every call to https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub I get a 404 not found. Is there anything wrong or should I use another URL?
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aaronpk every user gets a unique URL, it'll show yours on your dashboard
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[frank] Ah so I should use that one...
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aaronpk yep, https://aperture.p3k.io/microsub isn't valid. in fact where did you find that?
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[frank] Well...nowhere actually...To be honest the documentation at https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec and https://aperture.p3k.io/docs to me is not that clear on what to use where. I am also struggling with Bearer tokens to get started with some get and post calls. I tried [sebsel]’s token generator but I am also stuck there with the proper URL's to use. For an average user like myself it's hard to get through all of it without the knowledge of where
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[frank] information like the token endpoint and auth endpoint for my WordPress blog...
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[frank] Sorry for the rant...
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[frank] But I am just trying URL's based on documentation I read
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aaronpk yeah the trick is the microsub URL will depend on each person's configuration. so it's hard to make docs that make it clear what URL to use
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aaronpk hm yeah [sebsel]'s token generator is entirely client side so it doesn't do the discovery parts that actual apps do.
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aaronpk i guess we need a debug tool that does more of the actual indieauth client parts and gives you a token to use at the end
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[frank] Well...you could refer to the dashboard to look it up. On the dashboard, you can add a text to the part "To use Aperture as your Microsub endpoint, add this HTML to your home page." like "You also need this URL as and endpoint if you want to make API calls" with a link back to the docs
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aaronpk quill kind of is that, since it shows your access token on the settings screen. tho it won't have the right scopes for microsub.
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[frank] I can make tokens in my WordPress Indieauth plugin and change the scopes in the database. Tried that one, but then I get an error at Aperture "bad_request"
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aaronpk that's progress
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[frank] 🙂
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aaronpk ok made a small update on the docs page
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[cleverdevil] You know, it would be really useful to have a simple, web-based tool for getting IndieAuth tokens with specific scopes.
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[cleverdevil] For testing and use with CLI tools, or apps that support Micropub/Microsub, but haven't fully implemented IndieAuth.
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[frank] Update is an improvement!
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aaronpk [cleverdevil]: yeah the trick is that technically it's a bad idea to trust a tool like that that's generating tokens on the server side, which is why [sebsel] made one that is entirely client sifde
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aaronpk but i agree it would be useful. also would be very easy, most of the code is already written by every micropub app.
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[cleverdevil] Yup, client side makes sense.
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[frank] [cleverdevil] I think [sebsel]'s tool is already OK to use, but I now find out it misses a state-parameter to login to my WP-based Indieauth plugin
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aaronpk the trick with client side is finding the endpoints doesn't always work because of cross-domain restrictions
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[cleverdevil] Right.
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[cleverdevil] What about a CLI?
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aaronpk which is why [sebsel]'s asks you to enter them all
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aaronpk CLI would totally work, but would kind of be a difficult experience
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[cleverdevil] True.
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[cleverdevil] Kind of defeats the purpose of the "simple" ideal 😉
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[frank] Yeah I already find the proper URL's but somehow WordPress (I think?) needs a state parameter?
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aaronpk yeah the state parameter is just a random string that you make up
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aaronpk i guess that tool should just make it up for you
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[frank] ah
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[frank] there we go
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[frank] will you look at that... I got me a token!
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aaronpk 🎉
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[frank] But sad-face-emoji... When I enter it in Postman for the authorization with aperture, I still get ```{
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[frank] "error": "bad_request",
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[frank] "error_description": "This operation is not supported"
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[frank] }```
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aaronpk and this is to your unique microsub URL now?
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[frank] yes
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aaronpk is this a GET or a POST? one trick with Postman is it has different tabs for entering query params or post body params and is very confusing.
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[frank] I do a GET on my unique URL with query param action=channels
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[frank] and the bearer token ofcourse
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[frank] Sorry wait. I mean I used body params
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aaronpk i see that "bad_request" response if I make a request without any parameters
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[frank] When I use query params I get, as you call it, progress... ```The access token provided does not have the necessary scope for this action```
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aaronpk so i think in postman you were using the body param tab and making a GET request, so it's empty
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aaronpk i really don't like how postman works for that. it got more confusing.
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[frank] Yeah I am already on the param-tab
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aaronpk ok so for the scope issue, you'll need to request the microsub scopes when you get the token
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aaronpk or add them to the database if your wordpress works that way
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[frank] Now I need to find the scopes necessary
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[frank] right now I have "create delete update read follow mute block channels"
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aaronpk oh monocle can help you here
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aaronpk it will request the right scopes, so log in, then go to https://monocle.p3k.io/debug and your token will be at the bottom
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[frank] Can't I just use the Monocle token then?
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aaronpk yep
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[frank] It seems to work. Awesome!
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aaronpk woohoo
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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[frank] Many moons ago I played around with some code from Dave Winer and his feedreader. I wonder if I can bootstrap some stuff to read out OPML files and put it in Aperture. That would make export/import pretty easy and transfer to microsub less a hassle....
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aaronpk should definitely be possible! you can use microsub requests to effectively import subscriptions into aperture
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[frank] Small pieces loosely joined together. That's how the internet has been working for the last 250 years so why not now? 😉
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GWG Re custom scopes on backend tokens...the PR is waiting on that
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@bitworking ↩️ And here a screenshot of the webmentions on the page: https://t.co/iKNOxEImaF (twitter.com/_/status/1125912454821814272)