#dev 2020-01-02

2020-01-02 UTC
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[tantek] GWG++ nice. A relevant start like that is super helpful!
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Loqi GWG has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (143 in all channels)
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[tantek] What is a dark pattern?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dark pattern" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dark pattern is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Hmmm
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[tantek] Kind of want to capture stuff like this as things to avoid in your IndieWeb UX: https://twitter.com/zachleat/status/1212499988619702274
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@zachleat Wow, I just added my email to a web form that I didn't submit and received an email to that address a few minutes later asking me to finish filling out the form. No thank you 🧐🥶 (twitter.com/_/status/1212499988619702274)
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GWG I just updated the allow list code to try and fix it on my site while I wait for stable.
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GWG [tantek]: May I ask a favor?
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GWG Would you mind replying to anything on my website?
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GWG I thought I've fixed this bug before, want to check
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[tantek] Hey GWG, did you get a reply? Or still need one?
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GWG No...no one seemed to be around to send one
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GWG I need someone on my accept list before they send the mention
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[tantek] Ah, to see if the response shows up immediately without moderation?
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[fluffy] oh, if I’d known it was open to potentially anyone I’d have responded
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@kmelve ↩️ If you're on Netlfy you can use it's forms functionality and get spam blocking it seems https://css-tricks.com/using-netlify-forms-and-netlify-functions-to-build-an-email-sign-up-widget/. That said, https://commento.io/ looks somewhat what you're after. You could also check out webmentions: https://www.knutmelvaer.no/blog/2019/06/getting-started-with-webmentions-in-gatsby/ (twitter.com/_/status/1212678691030999040)
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[amy] Really enjoying this box shadow tool - https://brumm.af/shadows
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[amy] [Found it in a thread of web design-related resources on twitter - https://twitter.com/JoshWComeau/status/1212416797254832130]
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@JoshWComeau Happy New Year!! I know many of you work on side-projects, projects where you don't have the benefit of a product & design team. I'm betting a bunch of y'all have goals to create something new in 2020! Thought I'd share a thread with all my favourite resources: (twitter.com/_/status/1212416797254832130)
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dmcweeney Was wondering if anyone knows how to decrease the amount of white space at the bottom of my website consulting.drewmcweeney.com?
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[grantcodes] Every section on the page has a 150px padding on it
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[tantek] jamietanna[m] do you have the ability to submit changes to Lobsters templates like their home page? There's definitely a bunch of things we could suggest marking up on their home page etc.
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[tantek] GWG, wondering if you're still looking for a webmention, figured I'd wait til you were back on chat realtime 🙂
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[tantek] also, on the subject of fighting abuse, I found this interesting: https://lobste.rs/about#invitations a transparent "invitation tree", which makes me wonder if we could use some sort of equivalent with Vouch, a transparent vouch tree
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jamietanna[m] Tantek yes lobste.rs is OSS https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters so we can raise changes as we want
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Loqi [lobsters] lobsters: Computing-focused community centered around link aggregation and discussion
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[tantek] oh wow that's great!
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[tantek] what's the culture around submitting changes? do they prefer a GitHub issue first, and then a pull request to resolve it? Or is it ok to submit pull requests directly for evaluation / consideration?
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GWG [tantek]: I need someone.. but I need them on my approve list before they send the mention. You and aaronpk are, gRegorLove, etc
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jamietanna[m] Tantek looks like they'd prefer an issue raised to discuss first, so may need a bit more solution before raising it
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jjuran [tantek]: You could ask them in #lobsters
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[tantek] jamietanna[m], since you raised the possibility of contributing, want to drive this? I'm happy to help with markup suggestions
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@johanbove James Tomasino wrote about his experience with implementing #IndieWeb Webmentions on his Gopher blog. To bridge my webmention from HTTP to Gopher, I'm web-mentioning his post through the Floodgap Gopher proxy. If you're using Lynx or another… https://social.johanbove.info/2020/01/02/james-tomasino-wrote-about-his-experience-with (twitter.com/_/status/1212790834288037889)
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jamietanna[m] Yeah I'm happy with it! Help would be appreciated as you mentioned on #Microformats that you had some ideas
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[tantek] the home page is certainly a natural fit for h-feed
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[tantek] looking at comments e.g. for the top post currently, and IDK if we have recommended markup for thread trees like that: https://lobste.rs/s/lyiw4r/putting_devs_before_users_how_frameworks (aside: wow most of the comments are meta complaints about posting on Medium?!?)
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[tantek] does anyone display thread trees of comments on their posts?
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GWG Back for a bit
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[tantek] Welcome back GWG
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[tantek] jamietanna[m], can you think of any use-cases for someone "subscribing" to the comments on a Lobster article?
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GWG The invitation tree looks interesting...how would we do that?
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[tantek] Good question. It does seem like there is some opportunity to display how an author of a comment on your site is connected to you (vouch tree?)
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GWG [tantek]: I can't quite picture that.
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[tantek] GWG here's an example to help you picture: https://lobste.rs/u
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GWG That's how they do it... still wondering a Vouch take on it
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[tantek] yeah I forget who was / is displaying which vouch(es) were used to auto-approve comments on their site
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[tantek] jamietanna[m], let's start with h-feed for the home page and go from there. Maybe the resultant discussion will illuminate how markup for the other pages could be useful
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GWG To what degree do you want to share your thinking process on auto approval?
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[tantek] GWG, I think your idea of starting with an explicit allowlist is a good way to start implementing auto-approval
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GWG I had one, still want to test it
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GWG I actually built it at IWS 2018
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GWG But it broke somehow
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[tantek] jamietanna[m], this is another page which could be marked up with h-feed for subscribing (by perhaps a subset of folks that like to watch these things) https://lobste.rs/moderations
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dmcweeney @grantcodes Where do I find that section 150px?
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[tantek] dmcweeney, if you use the Firefox Inspector, it will show you which style rules contributed to which computed style properties
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dmcweeney I don't have firefox inspector
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[tantek] it's built into Firefox. right/control-click on an element and choose Inspect Element
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davepeck I ran across this older post about JF2 vs xray JSON formats; is there more that has happened since then? https://aaronparecki.com/2017/04/24/15/jf2 -- just trying to wrap my head around these formats.
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Some thoughts on the XRay and jf2 JSON formats
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aaronpk checks
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aaronpk there have been no backwards incompatible changes in xray since then, and there has been no real progress on jf2 as a spec itself
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davepeck Got it -- good to know, thanks!
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aaronpk the format xray uses is also what the microsub spec uses, so there are several implementations of that now too
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davepeck Ah, good, that was my next question. It wasn't clearly stated anywhere, but it seemed pretty similar.
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davepeck Thanks!
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davepeck BTW: I looked a bit at the xray code -- fun. Am I right in saying that it handles more than just mf2? In Parser.php it looks like it has special handlers for FB/Twitter/GitHub/etc. Even XKCD! :-)
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aaronpk yep!
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[tantek] aaronpk, stability and increasing interop *is* a sign of progress for a spec 🙂
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aaronpk theoretically microsub is supposed to reference the jf2 spec, but we haven't actually updated the jf2 spec recently https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec#Objects
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davepeck So what becomes of JF2, then?
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aaronpk needs a revision based on the latest real world deployments
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davepeck Gotcha. Curious what those are.
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[tantek] would be good to open an issue to track that and at least link to said real world deployments
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davepeck (I was mostly looking at the xray code to figure out why it wasn't giving the output I expected for some random page on my website -- it didn't think it was an 'rsvp' and didn't pull out the 'in-reply-to' rel. To answer the question, I ended up needing to read the mf2 code itself. And the answer was... my markup was busted, of course! I wonder if there's an opportunity to build tooling that exposes the decision making in a way that could help
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davepeck debugging markup.)
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aaronpk certainly but that's quite a project
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aaronpk there is something like that for authorship I think?
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aaronpk https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/
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davepeck yeah, it's a pretty big project indeed. and: good link, thanks.
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dmcweeney @tantek It is not working for me
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dmcweeney The end of every section is fine but the white space at bottom of the page (white space after the 3 videos to the end of page) is too much. Is there cSS to remove some of that space?
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[tantek] there is likely CSS that is causing that space. the key is to find that CSS and fix it, not add more CSS (which will make it harder to maintain)
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[tantek] dmcweeney, try this tutorial: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Page_Inspector/How_to/Open_the_Inspector - there are many other online resources for how to use the Firefox Inspector as well. Since it doesn't sound like this is particularly indieweb specific/related, perhaps follow-up in the indieweb-chat channel for additional questions.
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@hartlco A new Icro iOS Testflight build is available including support for fetching a micropub access token using Indieauth. I wish there was offical Testflight for Mac support! (twitter.com/_/status/1212823651202031617)
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jamietanna[m] tantek in case you've not seen there is already `h-feed` and `h-entry` markup on the home page, https://php.microformats.io/?url=https://lobste.rs/ the issue is more that when subscribed to it, it gives you _every post_ without ordering, whereas I'd quite like to see them in the order that they are in the pages - i.e. weighted on popularity
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jamietanna[m] having a `dt-published` or a `dt-updated` would be good too
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davepeck (I like the sturdy-backbone glitch now that I've tried it. "Here's a concise description of the decision tree, here's a visualization of the branches I followed." That general approach + reference to underlying microformat markup would probably make a useful tool.)
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