#dev 2020-07-09

2020-07-09 UTC
kingpapa, [tantek], geoffo, tinfoil-hat, [schmarty] and beko joined the channel
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@leivajd Revisar paquetes globales de npm: https://brid.gy/publish/twitter (twitter.com/_/status/1281049498094010368)
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[Jose_Leiva] well, Iā€™m doing something wrong, the tweet includes the link to brid.gy instead of the link to the note šŸ˜ž
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[schmarty] !tell aaronpk i apologize for the time crime i am about to do but i have reached a point where i need indieauth.rocks to exists and so i would like to help you build it if that is possible. šŸ˜‚
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jacky time crime!
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[schmarty] promising to save someone time and effort if only they will spend the time and effort coordinating with and managing my work. a true time crime.
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aaronpk Ohh
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Loqi aaronpk: [schmarty] left you a message 3 minutes ago: i apologize for the time crime i am about to do but i have reached a point where i need indieauth.rocks to exists and so i would like to help you build it if that is possible. šŸ˜‚
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[schmarty] i am full of bravado at this moment thinking maybe i can study micropub.rocks and model it's structure for signing in and standing up tests. so that's where i'm going to start reading.
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[schmarty] *its
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[schmarty] i'll make a proposal before i start slinging any code but would appreciate even the loosest of guidance
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jacky definitely same
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aaronpk So a few things
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aaronpk I want to make as much functionality available without any sort of authentication as possible
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aaronpk I also don't want to build in the data collection or summary reports
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aaronpk i want it to be more like webmention.rocks where it's all mostly ephemeral
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aaronpk (one of the reasons we had it save reports on micropub.rocks was to collect information about number of implementations for the w3c process, which while valuable, isn't really the priority here)
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aaronpk if any functionality could be used as an attack vector to other websites, that should be protected by a login/verification step. (see: https://webmention.rocks/receive/1)
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Receiver Test #1
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jacky hmmm
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jacky that's tricky if this is going to testing auth tho
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aaronpk right, only when necessary
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aaronpk there's a few bits of functionality in this repo already which I have actually used to test some of the logic in indielogin.com https://github.com/aaronpk/indieauth.rocks/blob/master/public/index.php
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jacky o.o
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aaronpk although a lot of that is actually providing relmeauth test cases
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aaronpk we should probably leave out all relmeauth stuff so as not to confuse things further
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Loqi totally
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aaronpk but i'd say a good first step is to make a list of all the things we want to test, on both sides of the equation
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[schmarty] oh right! yes will look at wm.rocks first instead. also that makes things a lot easier. šŸ˜…
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aaronpk I would like to do everything without a database if possible, but once we start digging in it may end up being easier with a database
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aaronpk if we _can_ do everything with redis and auto-expiring keys, i'd prefer that
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aaronpk (better for long term maintenance if the site never actually stores anything permanently)
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[schmarty] word. yeah. i should also clarify my goals here! i have this trashy indieauth provider i made by badly translating selfauth into my poor understanding of how to make nodejs+express apps: https://glitch.com/edit/#!/befitting-price?path=server.js%3A3%3A0
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[schmarty] i want to encapsulate this as a stripped down lib that can be mounted as an expressjs sub-app or router
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aaronpk nice
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[schmarty] and part of that condensation process, i feel, needs to including testing that it's "actually" a working endpoint
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aaronpk well the good news is it may actually be easier to test an indieauth server than a client
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aaronpk cause it means writing essentially several dozen indieauth clients that behave badly in different ways
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[schmarty] i expect that i'll also end up doing a token endpoint in the same way and i don't totally understand all the ways those might be interrelated yet.
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[schmarty] as i understand it, the indieauth server is mostly in need of testing that it is doing oauth2 right.
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aaronpk yeah, plus of course the specifics of indieauth like ensuring it's returning a URL as the user profile URL and such
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[schmarty] ah yeah.
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[schmarty] and then maybe this goes on the token endpoint but there are some trickier things to test like presenting the authorization screen to the user with clarity
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aaronpk heh yeah that one i think is going to have to be some manual explanation. not sure we can automate much of that
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[schmarty] true. automating those tests is very app-specific. but explanations can maybe guide what those tests look like.
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[schmarty] thanks for talking this through! i think my next steps are to read through https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/ and take notes on auth/token endpoint features that look testable
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] IndieAuth
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aaronpk feel free to takes notes by filing issues on the indieauth.rocks repo!
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[schmarty] and then look at webmention.rocks for hints on how to add those to the existing skeleton of indieauth.rocks, ideally in ways that require no or little storage.
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[schmarty] sounds great!
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aaronpk (the existing indieauth.rocks repo is more like rough notes than any sort of skeleton)
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jacky is slamming at php code
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jacky I forgot how fast this thing can be
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[schmarty] as time goes on PHP makes me think that, when it comes to the web, a lot of other languages and setups are ceremony
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jacky solely and mostly
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aaronpk the other languages are a testing ground for new ideas where the best ones end up being brought back in to PHP
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aaronpk example: improved switch syntax coming soon! https://aaronparecki.com/2020/07/07/30/php
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Nice to see that #PHP is improving on the switch syntax, this is going to be great! https://php.watch/versions/8.0/match-expression
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@smakofsky For the life of me I cannot figure out how to get IndieAuth working properly on my website for @iAWriter to use. Sometimes, self hosting is such a pain. (twitter.com/_/status/1281069468454543360)
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[schmarty] šŸ˜­
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aaronpk heh
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jacky yikes
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jacky yo holy crap https://viewbox.club/tips/01.CSS_Keyframes.html
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jacky you can animate svgs _in_ a favicons
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jacky or in the background of CSS lol
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jacky is learning about this because he wants to make his new avatar animate a bit
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[schmarty] favicon animation is a neat idea!
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[schmarty] lol i just noticed that page was already doing it in the tab
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[schmarty] jacky++ thanks for tipping me off to this newsletter!!
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Loqi jacky has 30 karma in this channel over the last year (112 in all channels)
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KartikPrabhu jacky: I made one for indietech.rocks http://indietech.rocks/
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KartikPrabhu its not fancy
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jacky but it works!
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jacky I like this!
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jacky it's like subtle (I prefer subtle over noisy tbh)
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KartikPrabhu yeah me too :D
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jacky [schmarty]: totally! I was reminded of it on Mastodon when I asked for resources
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jacky come to find out the best one was one of our last key noters!
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[schmarty] cassiecodes++ šŸŽ‰
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Loqi cassiecodes has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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KartikPrabhu yeah cassie's website is very nice
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jacky hmm regarding authorship; should I put that check within the h-entry validator or as its own thing?
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jacky what is authorship
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Loqi authorship is how to indicate who the author is for a post, and an algorithm that determines the author of a post https://indieweb.org/authorship
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jacky wait
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jacky I did _not_ know this https://indieweb.org/authorship#Authorship_for_streams_of_posts
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jacky this probably explains why all of my feeds have my face in it lol
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jacky I put a u-author at the top to show that I created this feed
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jacky also interesting https://github.com/pomber/placeholdifier
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Loqi [pomber] placeholdifier: Turn any website into a live wireframe
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GWG aaronpk: I seem to be backporting code from one of your repositories into another.
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aaronpk oh dear
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GWG aaronpk: The Static Maps repo you haven't touched in 6 years...In addition to fixing a few things, I figured I would bring in the changes you made when you moved the code to Atlas
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aaronpk ahhh right i forgot about that
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GWG aaronpk: I figured updating it was a good way to learn the code
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aaronpk that explains why i haven't touched that repo in so long, all my latest uses of it are in atlas
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GWG aaronpk: Apparently so
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GWG I have a lot of the Atlas functionality duplicated in my code. Except maps
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GWG So I am only looking at that piece.
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@tw2113 ā†©ļø Due to the small but notable response to this tweet, I'm going to try and comment on blog posts more. Bonus points if the sites in question support webmentions! (twitter.com/_/status/1281088548167352330)
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@t hosted Homebrew Website Club West Coast tonight: https://events.indieweb.org/2020/07/homebrew-website-club-west-coast-ZObv0hlGOdR5 Discussed many topics: proposed h-entry p-content-warning property https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/19, IndieAuth test suite, UX personas roles as a way to update https://indieweb.org/generations, and ... https://tantek.com/t57X2 (twitter.com/_/status/1281115316940967936)
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petermolnar I went back to testing RDFa - apparently I like the pain. Summary: microformats can't be together with a google-pleasing RDFa for review, because mf wants product inside review, google the other way. I honely think google is in the verge of falling apart; their rules is impossible to follow.
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petermolnar if you write an RDFa Review with a Product inside it, Google wants another Review inside the Product AS WELL
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petermolnar and if you reference it as a resource it's too simple to parse the nested references, so it starts missing the author
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petermolnar I don't know who's in charge of these inside Google, but they either don't understand RDF at all (even less, than I do), or they don't want to
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petermolnar (this is in light of their new Rich Results Test tool, which is a new abomination)
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petermolnar on the note to why I'm inflicting pain in myself again: because I want google to respect the licensing in my photos. https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/image-license-metadata
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[KevinMarks] that's overcomplicated too. rel=license is clear enough
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petermolnar of course it's overcomplicated, it's modern google
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petermolnar oh, funny thing though: if a results shows up in rich results, it won't show up in the "normal" ones any more
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[KevinMarks] that's always been true of oneboxes, just not of ads
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GWG \
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aaronpk tbh I don't think anyone other than a very small number of people at google understand rdf
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aaronpk I have a feeling it's kinda forced upon the rest of them and they have to figure out how to turn it into real instructions for web developers
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sknebel oh they parse IPTC on photos? that's at least somewhat existing standard :D
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[KevinMarks] I bet rdf is harder for machine learning to parse than plain text or even Microformats.
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GWG sknebel: I never see anything useful in IPTC data, only in EXIF
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/pifafu/status/1265773172520914944?s=21
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@pifafu hey, so we heard ya & are trying out a thing where you CAN have a readme on your @github profile... @mikekavouras built it btw! re: https://twitter.com/pifafu/status/1262830019706892288 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZDt1VKUMAA18r2.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1265773172520914944)
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[KevinMarks] Does that mean more rel=me links?
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[schmarty] that's interesting.
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petermolnar GWG: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/image-license-metadata contains guidance on how to put license/creator/etc data into IPTC which Google is now promising to parse
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[tantek] lol github personal readmes. when do we get status updates?
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[tantek] no wait I got it
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[tantek] [x] publish this gist on your profile
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[tantek] we could call them ... geets
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sknebel github has a "current status" thing (but more as a "available"/"away" with free text - i.e. you can set if the status means "not available" and if someone mentions or assigns you it warns them you're on holiday or whatever)
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aaronpk Oh I never actually knew what that was for lol
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[tantek] huh, that could be useful for warning people that you're away ... on your own website
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GWG Anyone ever used php GD to overlay text on images?
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GWG I am trying to fix attribution on maps to cover all possible future circumstances
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[snarfed] (psst GWG don't try too hard to predict the future! stick with the present. YAGNI and all)
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GWG [snarfed]: Right now, there isn't attribution for what is in the code
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[snarfed] aha so that's present, not future
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GWG [snarfed]: Yes, present but would like to future proof
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GWG I may end up abandoning this approach
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GWG I'm resurrecting a 6 year old aaronpk project
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[snarfed] futureproof--
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Loqi futureproof has -1 karma over the last year
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[KevinMarks] Can you use svg to do it?
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[KevinMarks] Then the text is a <text> element
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GWG [KevinMarks]: This is a static map generator, so no
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GWG I could do it on the display side...
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GWG But not the generation side
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GWG Since the display side is WordPress, and I'm using aaronpk's old code as a service provider, I need it to handle the requirement of attributing the map source.
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[schmarty] i did the github profile thing! https://github.com/martymcguire
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[schmarty] to do it make a new public repo with the same name as your github username and add a README.md
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[schmarty] if you use the github UI to do the creation they'll give you hints, and the default README.md template has some tips for getting started.
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[tantek] They missed an opportunity to make it ABOUTME.md
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sknebel [schmarty]: aww, no "You are visitor number X" badge? :D
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jamietanna aaronpk has anything changed today with Telegraph? I'm seeing a number of failures to publish to Twitter with Bridgy via Telegraph, which is returning `no_link_found`, but going directly to bridgy's webmention endpoint works?
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jamietanna https://web.archive.org/web/20200709180148/https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/07/twynf/ is the archived version of the page prior to publishing + updating the u-syndication
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Loqi [Jamie Tanna] I've got https://www.jvt.me/img/profile.png set up so I can easily reference it, but agree it'd be super helpful if it was possible to not re-import everywhere. https://www.libravatar.org/ seems like an interesting alternative, but like #Gravatar it ...
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aaronpk nothing has changed afaik
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[KevinMarks] @gwg you could generate an svg (with embedded jpeg/png tiles) and the attribution in text, and it would work in an img tab
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GWG Interesting. But WordPress can't save SVGs right now in the media library
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GWG Wonder if that's changed
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jacky okay needing some feedback from people who add weather and location info to posts: would it make sense for a Micropub editor to allow for one to add multiple locations / weather bits?