#dev 2020-08-21

2020-08-21 UTC
themaxdavitt, geoffo, XS1, peterrother, jonnybarnes, jbove, ludovicchabant, khimaros[m], gxt, [chrisaldrich], nickodd, [snarfed] and strugee joined the channel
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@schnarfed ↩️ sure! for this problem specifically, you page through https://brid.gy/twitter/mxbck and look for "No webmention support" errors. i tried that for a few pages just now and didn't see any. (twitter.com/_/status/1296688097355165697)
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@schnarfed ↩️ sure! for this problem specifically, you page through https://brid.gy/twitter/mxbck and look for "No webmention support" errors. i tried that for a few pages just now and didn't see any. (twitter.com/_/status/1296688097355165697)
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[snarfed] anyone have any experience with the Instagram Basic Display API? https://developers.facebook.com/docs/instagram-basic-display-api/
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[snarfed] bare bones API for getting public IG profiles and media. needs the usual FB app approval, but still
jonnybarnes, willnorris, raucao and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek] ooh sounds hopeful!
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Ruxton :O
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Ruxton "Stories are not supported.
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Ruxton Insights are not supported.
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Ruxton Comments are not supported.
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Ruxton Promoted posts containing Instagram media are not supported"
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Ruxton :/
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Ruxton So still need to scrape for interactions and stories
loicm, [Rose], moppy, Zegnat, MrHyde_, craftyphotons, ndegruchy, kitt, dckc, swentel, [spieper], KartikPrabhu, jeremych_, jonnybarnes, geoffo and [snarfed] joined the channel
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[snarfed] yup
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aaronpk Might be a way to revive ownyourgram tho
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[snarfed] if you can get approved :troll:
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[snarfed] manton++
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Loqi manton has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (65 in all channels)
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[manton] I’ve been tempted to explore this too, but also not in a hurry to get burned by Facebook yet again.
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@pixelgraphix Quicklink: Maurice Renck hat sein Komments-Plugin für Kirby aktualisiert. Zusätzlich zu mehr Stabilität ist nun ein Split-View für Likes, Replies, etc. verfügbar. Ich habe es auf pixelgraphix im Einsatz. https://pixelgraphix.de/minis/webmentions-und-kommentare-fur-kirby (twitter.com/_/status/1296823440935194624)
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[snarfed] jacky just fyi your 404 handler (i think) is throwing 500s. eg https://jacky.wtf/xyz
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@shrutikawani RT pixelgraphix: Quicklink: Maurice Renck hat sein Komments-Plugin für Kirby aktualisiert. Zusätzlich zu mehr Stabilität ist nun ein Split-View für Likes, Replies, etc. verfügbar. Ich habe es auf pixelgraphix im Einsatz. https://pixelgraphix.de/minis/webmentions-und-kommentare-fur-kirby (twitter.com/_/status/1296826523723476992)
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sknebel Kirby << https://github.com/mauricerenck/komments - Plugin for Comments, Webmention sending, Webmention.io-integration, POSSE to Mastodon, ...
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/mauricerenck/komments - Plugin for Comments, Webmention sending, Webmention.io-integration, POSSE to Mastodon, ..." to the "See Also" section of /Kirby https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=72174&oldid=68435
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GWG Where is the list of items for IndieAuth tomorrow?
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aaronpk i don't tihnk we have made an explicit list other than continuing the discussions from last time
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aaronpk same milestone as before https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/milestone/1
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GWG aaronpk: I thought we had other stuff... maybe I'm just misremembering
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GWG Either way, I'll be there eagerly
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sknebel oh right, that was tomorrow. might be there
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[schmarty] whoops there's an indieauth popup tomorrow?? 😂
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aaronpk oh no did everyone forget
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[schmarty] i think i missed it being scheduled. i can make it and have RSVPd
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jacky lol
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Jacks Hi
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jacky squints
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jacky hello Jacks
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Jacks What is this room?
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Loqi This room is one of several discussion channels for the IndieWeb community, see the channel descriptions for the focus and purpose of each room https://indieweb.org/This_room
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Jacks What is the goal?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "goal" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "goal is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jacky it's in the /topic
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jacky but it's dev chat around indieweb-centric stuff
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aaronpk oh the topics don't show in the web interface
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jacky ah okay
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jacky makes a note
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jacky I thought they might have been IRC-centric
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Jacks Which is? And how did I have access to this site?
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aaronpk the goal is /principles
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Loqi ok
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Jacks It popped up on my phone and the topic relates to what?
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aaronpk ...popped up on your phone...?
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aaronpk how?
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Jacks Unsure the window was on a tab like I’ve never signed up for tjis
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jacky phones are starting to move on their own but lol
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jacky you could take a look at https://indieweb.org and see if it rings any bells
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aaronpk lol what
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Jacks Odd but it’s a conspiracy
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jacky yikes
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aaronpk i mean i've heard that android will "suggest" web pages to visit, but I didn't think this chat would be one of those
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Jacks I’m a talent consultant surely no computer tech I apologize for interrupting
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Jacks I have an iPhone too strange I will have to hire someone who can investigate this as it’s quite disturbing
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jacky be sure to blog about it
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aaronpk jacky++
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Loqi jacky has 33 karma in this channel over the last year (115 in all channels)
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[snarfed] hiring a detective is a surprisingly strong response to an errant browser tab. let us know how it goes!
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swentel [snarfed], I guess you store the list of followers on fed.brid.gy ? Could you export me the list of users who follow me (realize.be)
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[snarfed] swentel yes! will do
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swentel relatively close to migrate to my own domain using Drupal, going to start testing next week if all goes well :)
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[snarfed] ooh so you’ll switch to doing your own native AP?
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swentel [snarfed], yes
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swentel has been on my mind for ages, I just have sponsored time no to get that ready :)
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swentel *now
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jacky https://twitter.com/shshaw/status/1296881500311478275?s=20
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@shshaw If you like… ✅ Free things ✅ CSS ✅ A little JS ✅ Web animation ✅ Learning new tricks ✅ Puns …you should watch @keyframers, a free web animation education series by @DavidKPiano & I. We have over 100 tutorial videos & code samples. All free. https://youtube.com/keyframers (twitter.com/_/status/1296881500311478275)
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@jackyalcine ↩️ That said, the closest thing for this in the non-Apple/non-Spotify ecosystem that’s also open is https://gpodder.net/. I use it to sync my lists across devices but it’s a little janky. That might be moot if I can see how Microsub plays into this, tbh… https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/645bd51d-002b-47b9-a1aa-40803ca91ba8 (twitter.com/_/status/1296894904413622272)
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[fluffy] So my current thinking on private feeds: user agents need bearer token support. They can get this token through any number of flows, like https://beesbuzz.biz/profile or with Ticket Auth or whatever. This isn’t novel thinking of course.
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[fluffy] But the websub stuff gets interesting.
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aaronpk yeah that's where i'm at with it too
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[fluffy] I would worry about the hub needing to know about bearer tokens and identities and so on, just because that makes for a lot more complexity.
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aaronpk i do think there's a way to make it work with websub still tho
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[fluffy] I feel like if there’s a bearer token involved then only sending thin pings is the right way to go.
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[fluffy] Send a thin ping to all subscribers, then have the subscribers do a pull with their respective tokens.
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[fluffy] Maybe do a thick ping for public content though.
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jacky yeah
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[fluffy] But that’s more of an optimization.
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jacky hmm
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[fluffy] I don’t really give a crap about reducing the number of HTTP transactions on the internet at this point.
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jacky ha
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jacky tbh I think I'd _always_ auth if I can
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[fluffy] Especially for things that go in the background.
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[fluffy] Right I mean the thin ping would notify the subscribers there’s potentially new content, then the subscribers do their authenticated pull.
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jacky ah okay
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jacky slams keyboard into building the thing
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jacky realizes he was dreaming about ^
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[fluffy] Oh also a thing I worry about with bearer tokens in general is how to deal with refreshing them. Like I don’t want the bearer tokens to have an indefinite lifetime, and at there are also circumstances where all tokens might need to be refreshed.
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[fluffy] For example in Publ all tokens are stateless and just use HMAC-style signing, and if the signing key leaks that means it needs to change and all tokens become invalid.
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[fluffy] And it seems like invalid token should lead to a 401 response to indicate that the token needs refreshing.
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[fluffy] If I ever get around to building Subl my intention is that a 401 error will cause the feed to get re-fetched without authentication and also set some
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[fluffy] UX indicating that the authentication expired.
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[fluffy] And Subl will absolutely support both Ticket Auth and manual bearer token entry.
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jacky so I store all of those tokens currently and do a hard expiry that way
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[snarfed] this all sounds AutoAuth-adjacent
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[fluffy] Yeah having an abstract token store has advantages over signing (and Authl and Publ both support that) but Publ defaults to using signed tokens because it lets me keep things stateless and database-independent.
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[fluffy] Yeah this all emerged as a simpler alternative to AutoAuth.
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[fluffy] At the online summit a bunch of us were talking about finally making AutoAuth work and then the question came up: is this the right protocol?
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[fluffy] And we collectively decided that, no, it has too many moving parts and has way too much stuff that has to happen for basic bootstrapping.
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[fluffy] And then Aaron wrote up a quick idea for a token grant mechanism which handwaves around the issue of invites/discovery in a way which happens to work very well for Publ. :)
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[fluffy] I have most of the groundwork in place in Publ to support it, I just need to implement the token endpoint dance.
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[fluffy] Which should only take me a few hours to write but I don’t have the motivation to because of the usual chicken-and-egg situation.
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[fluffy] But I should just hecking do it and then hack it into Feed on Feeds like I always do even though I have qualms about how multiuser subscriptions work in that
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[fluffy] (Subl is designed with this in mind from the beginning of course but all I’ve written on that is a rough schema and some even rougher notes about how to implement it when I have a round tuit available)
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jacky catches up
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jacky hm yeah
[schmarty], [tantek], loicm, [KevinMarks], jonnybarnes, lahacker, strugee and [snarfed] joined the channel
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[snarfed] swentel i have your bridgy fed AP followers whenever you’re ready. 11 of them
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