[pfefferle]the question was: how can I provide a list of different feeds (articles, notes, replys, …) and maybe how to prioritize or categorize them, that a feed reader can handle them proper…
[tantek]When you follow someone, you should be able to both pick up front what you want to see from them (maybe default to just their default stream), and later be able to mute particular things
[tantek]And none of that should depend on how many gazillion variants of feeds they publish because that’s unsustainable both for publishers (high publisher expectations always fail), and no one actually wants a “feed management per person” UI (except maybe OPML fans and stalkers?)
[pfefferle]because of POSSE, many blogs/sites became very noisy and I often have to search for the correct feed to subscribe, that does not include for example POSSEs…
Loqimute is the ability to hide posts in your reader that have specific words, or from particular publishers, optionally with an automatic expiration, after which newer posts are visible again https://indieweb.org/mute
aaronpkright, the fact that that "breaks" existing models of blog feed readers isn't a problem of their personal websites, it's a problem with the legacy feed reader model
aaronpkThe hen/egg problem describes a situation where both sides require work for something to change. In this case it's only the reader side that needs to change
ZegnatThey just require potential subscribers to put in the effort to write a reading application? :P I think [pfefferle] is saying that it is valid to say that it should not be the publisher, but at the same time it should not be reader.
sknebelI think having options for filtered feeds for such reader applications makes sense, but the additional markup to "categorize" such feeds would also need implementation work on the reader application side, and I wonder if that wouldn't be better invested in filter/mute features
[tantek]Both aaronpk and myself for example are very deliberate (differently) about what goes in our default feeds (which btw is definitely not “everything” 😂)
[tantek]also due to the “dumbness” of legacy feed readers and their poor handling of overcaching / failing to update, I have a delay before anything I publish makes it into any legacy feed files
sknebelthis could very well also be helpful for new reader apps. I guess apps could trial it by fetching a bunch of a feed and compiling the information themselves - if it turns out to be helpful marking it up is an optimization
[tantek]mute << silo example: Twitter has an option to “not show retweets” from someone you follow (needs screenshot). This is essentially a “mute retweets” feature even though they don’t call it that.
Loqiok, I added "silo example: Twitter has an option to “not show retweets” from someone you follow (needs screenshot). This is essentially a “mute retweets” feature even though they don’t call it that." to the "See Also" section of /mutehttps://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73673&oldid=71773
aaronpkside effect of deleting all my redirect handling code is my client now provides whatever the user entered as the "me" value to the authorization endpoint
aaronpkso if i enter "aaronpk.com" into a client i'm taken to my website with that as the "me" rather than previously the client expanded it to "https://aaronparecki.com/"
aaronpkso i took out all the code that i had to keep track of the URLs found in the redirect chain, so i'm only doing the optimization of "if the entered URL and profile URL are an exact match then skip verifying the authorization endpoint"
Zegnataaronpk: I think we specifically wrote in the updated spec that the me parameter given by the client to the AS might be as provided by the user, so non canonicalised?
ZegnatOf course the fact that we wrote that in the spec does not mean all AS would work with it. But I would not have expected it the break many implementations either. Last we checked, not a lot of implementations were even using the me provided by the client, they just always returned their own hardcoded value
ZegnatSending a me at all there is an extension to OAuth and excluded using generic OAuth libs. Which IIRC is why we watered it down a bit, if that is how we could call it
aaronpki kinda want to make telegraph do the indieauth flow itself unless there's no authorization endpoint, then use indielogin.com only for the fallback provider options
Loqicodepen is a silo for hosting HTML, CSS and JavaScript snippets to demonstrate the capabilities of the client-side Web https://indieweb.org/codepen
@AndreJaenisch@cassiecodes@jh3yy@smashingmag Good to know! Look, I like to host code I write on my site (eventually). I would like to document the process of making and my ideas behind it. The only way I can do that in CodePen is through comments (or a section in the HTML). Then, you cannot see the progress over time. (twitter.com/_/status/1331900348752138240)
[Raphael_Luckom]it's more complicated that "aws is centralized" Their outage in US-east messed up my workflow yesterday, but my friends down the street are using us-west and didn't have any issue. Both aws
ZegnatMy new AS to replace Selfauth for me does just straight up have a text field where you can tell it what to put in the me. So that one could be used to check implementations as well
ZegnatIt still requires a password, so nobody but me will actually be able to use it. But I liked the idea of being able to have the URL be an open text field.
[tantek]mute << silo example: Instagram: on the iOS app when viewing someone’s profile that you’re following, you can tap on the [ Following v ] button which reveals a slide up menu from the bottom of the screen which has a "Mute >" item, tapping it slides left two sliders (off by default) for "Posts" and "Stories", which you can set independently. (screenshots needed)
Loqiok, I added "silo example: Instagram: on the iOS app when viewing someone’s profile that you’re following, you can tap on the [ Following v ] button which reveals a slide up menu from the bottom of the screen which has a "Mute >" item, tapping it slides left two sliders (off by default) for "Posts" and "Stories", which you can set independently. (screenshots needed)" to the "See Also" section of /mutehttps://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=73678&oldid=73673
[tantek]alright for those of you interested in the feed reader filtering conversation, I added a few more mute feature Silo examples for you take a look at and consider in terms of UX: https://indieweb.org/mute#Silo_Examples (note that none of those require the publisher to do anything special)
[tantek]much better than trying to a priori judge from a bunch of random feeds with random names according to what the publisher might have thought when they created them
[tantek](if the publisher even bothered to create special / separate feeds, which 99%+ don't bother with, and maybe some other small % have automatic "tag" or "Category" feeds that they don't know about)
sknebelif someone goes through the effort of providing selective feeds for topics replicating that with filters is really tricky I've found, especially when it comes to microblogging/tweets/... and I've tried doing that a bunch
[Raphael_Luckom]I looked at the feed reader page and the social reader page, but I couldn't get a sense of 1) whether there are clear favorites among the readers 2) whether there's much activity in making new readers.
[tantek]like yes, I myself have an "articles-only feed" (originally built for Planet Mozilla use-case), and have on my to-do to make a "photos-only page" (along with feed for that), but I'm not going to suggest anyone else bother doing so
[tantek][Raphael_Luckom] there's "legacy readers" which are literally read-only passive readers, old school sidefiles etc., and then there are "social readers", which as the term "social" implies, are two-way *by default* (assuming you sign-in with a Micropub enabled personal site). concentrate your effort on the latter as they are actually evolving their UI to displace social media usage etc. the former are kind of like email UIs except you can't
sknebelI've seriously been tempted to try rig some classification code from a spam filter or something to categorize posts, but on tweets even that fails
LoqiNIPSA is an acronym for Not In Public Site Areas, and an admin feature of Flickr that allows their support staff to mark an account such that posts from it will not be shown in search results and other similar public views of posts https://indieweb.org/NIPSA
sknebelyeah. but really at some point the answer is probably going to be "don't use twitter" or "only follow people that don't tweet much about things that annoy me" instead of "writing more code". (well, maybe my attitude to coding in my free time will improve again at some point ;))
sknebelsebbu: on the mediawiki API that wouldn't be too hard if you are just thinking editing the native wiki markup (converting mediawiki markup back and forth to other formats is ... "interesting")
lahackeri got my own markdown implementation to pipe through pandoc to mediawiki for an automated POSSE to indieweb wiki.. works for basic pages, clobbers complicated large pages; zegnat recommended i look into section editing which sounded promising
aaronpklahacker: i usually do the first draft with Quill, bringing in photos and doing basic formatting. i post as a draft to my website and then do some final tweaks there
aaronpk sknebel: Zegnat: new snapshot of indieauth ready to publish: https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/pull/73
[pfefferle] one example was https://github.com/Ranchero-Software/NetNewsWire/issues/1100
Loqi mute is the ability to hide posts in your reader that have specific words, or from particular publishers, optionally with an automatic expiration, after which newer posts are visible again https://indieweb.org/mute
[KevinMarks] is tagging a way to do this feed filtering? Or has that now become balkanized by platform?
Zegnat Of course the fact that we wrote that in the spec does not mean all AS would work with it. But I would not have expected it the break many implementations either. Last we checked, not a lot of implementations were even using the me provided by the client, they just always returned their own hardcoded value
[tantek] codepen << Criticism: depends on [[AWS]] (and thus vulnerable to their outages) https://twitter.com/AndreJaenisch/status/1331901136245305345
@AndreJaenisch @cassiecodes @jh3yy @smashingmag Imagine CodePen going down. Or Amazon having yet another outage *cough You are stuck. If you have different domains hosting code, the whole system becomes more resilient to failures (the original motivation behind the Internet). (twitter.com/_/status/1331901136245305345)
petermolnar if people in the US were all hosting at home, a provider outage would be ~1/3 of all sites, given the 3 available choices, right?
[Raphael_Luckom] it's more complicated that "aws is centralized" Their outage in US-east messed up my workflow yesterday, but my friends down the street are using us-west and didn't have any issue. Both aws
[chrisaldrich] aaronpk++