#dev 2021-05-13

2021-05-13 UTC
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Glad to meet you! I've been following [[anagora]] for a bit. Feel free to note away! (Bonus points if you send Webmentions when you do.) (http://boffosocko.com/mentions/?replytocom=321612#respond) (twitter.com/_/status/1392633800757239809)
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@flancian ↩️ Awesome, thanks a lot for the pointer! I'll try to set up http://brid.gy tomorrow. I've been meaning to look into [[web mentions]] for a while now! (twitter.com/_/status/1392633260505804803)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ http://Webmention.io can get you up and running in just a few minutes, but there's a pop-up event to talk about other options this weekend: https://events.indieweb.org/2021/05/webmentions-beyond-webmention-io-zG4JpHhZShVA You're welcome to attend. (http://boffosocko.com/2021/05/12/55791046/?replytocom=321618#respond) (twitter.com/_/status/1392635306394865664)
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@dmitshur ↩️ My favorite provider to log in with is my own personal website, when possible via IndieAuth. (See https://github.com/shurcooL/home/issues/34 for relevant context.) GitHub is backup/second favorite. (twitter.com/_/status/1392647170176819206)
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@fluffy ↩️ http://authl.readthedocs.io - supports magic links via email, IndieAuth, and a couple of OAuth providers. It’s also pluggable. (twitter.com/_/status/1392651310562832390)
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[jacky] to expand from #indieweb, I'm thinking something like a OPML of the feeds that one provides and opting for the "recommended" one.
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[jacky] I figured that these feeds could also map to things like post types or what not so you can pick and choose which you'd like
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[fluffy] Yeah a thing I’ve been meaning to build for my site is a feed customizer that lets people pick and choose which posts to display with a live preview.
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[jacky] ooooh that's a good idea
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[jacky] I kind of wish there was a way to hint as to what post types are available in a feed so something like that could be abstracted
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[fluffy] Feeds do have descriptions although I don’t think many readers support them
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[jacky] hmm good point
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[fluffy] okay so here’s a thought… peopel are always talking about feeds with a session key for the purpose of post privacy, but there’s good reasons not to do that. However, having a session key that ties feed preferences to a user? that feels totally kosher.
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[fluffy] and posts presented with a session key can get formatted with like ‘more like this’ ‘less like this’ links in the body text
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[fluffy] also the click-through on an entry could theoretically have the session embedded in the entry link and that can be like, oh cool this person wants to see more like this, or it can present UX to the person who clicked through anyway
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[fluffy] there would still be some trickiness with like… what happens if someone shares a customized feed item? and if they do it as an atom share, the feed URL gets shared too, so that can cause issues
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[fluffy] (which is the fundamental reason I do not want to support magic-link auth in feeds)
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[fluffy] or, alternately, this is another use case for bearer tokens provided via TicketAuth et al: the feed reader is then identifying the user as part of the feed fetching.
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[fluffy] and the feed fetch includes the preferences thereof.
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[jacky] hmmm
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[jacky] I actually think that's probably _the_ best way to do this. It even upgrades gracefully for TicketAuth/AutoAuth (I like TicketAuth!)
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[jacky] I think that the light tracking/adjustment done there _might_ need to be something in the reader but I'm guessing you mentioned this to help people manage their own subscription _to you_
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[jacky] hmm I like that a lot
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GWG This is interesting... https://pirateweather.net/
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tomlarkworthy I made the goal directed weblogin wizard:- https://observablehq.com/@endpointservices/login-wizard
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tomlarkworthy probably to specific for use with https://indiewebify.me/ but it demonstrates flipping the dialog to what you want to do (e.g. login with facebook) and then telling you the steps to achieve that (relmeauth backlink)
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@underoot ↩️ Да, поэтому Web Mention крутая штука. https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1392779697226924033)
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sparseMatrix heh, sometimes you just gotta knuckle down and read the docs from the beginning. I've been trying to wrangle nginx, which as some of you know, is completely new to me. After reading up a bit over coffee this morning, I discover that the sites-available/sites-enabled methodology is deprecated. A quick check shows that the preferred method, conf.d/, does in fact have a configuration file in it (which I no doubt created in pursuit of some
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sparseMatrix tutorial), actually does accurately describe the few features that are working :)
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[chee] 🙂
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[chee] *:)
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sparseMatrix this also explains the several hours spent making changes, restarting, and testing to fail yesterday afternoon
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[chee] haha, oh no!
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sparseMatrix literally nothing I changed mattered, bc the server wasn't consulting my config changes :)
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sparseMatrix THATS OK, though :D
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[chee] the main conf was never importing those files?
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sparseMatrix nopers
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sparseMatrix nopers
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[chee] oh dang haha ^_^
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sparseMatrix @chee: what are you working on today?
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sparseMatrix Hmmm, a new concern becomes apparent....one of the things that is currently working is certs for https from let's encrypt
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sparseMatrix the config file in conf.d/ has a lot of lines marked 'managed by lets encrypt'
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sparseMatrix perhaps an immediate backup of that config file is in order
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sparseMatrix actually it says managed by Certbot but same/same
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sparseMatrix ...so, looking at this nginx config file, it seems to be a narrative in a procedural scripting language, that is to say, top to bottom, right to left command interpretation/logic evaluation
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sparseMatrix and as such, a significant portion of the config file has 'code' that is unreachable (it follows after 'return' statements)
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sparseMatrix I rather suspect this is due to scripted config file changes applied by certbot
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sparseMatrix I might just be wrong though... nginx may be returning protocol status asynchronously (sending back a 404, for instance) and then carrying on with the 'unreachable' code
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sparseMatrix in other words, 'return' might not mean what I am used to having it mean
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[chee] it's not a scripting language
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[chee] the return is talking about returning a status code
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sparseMatrix it's got a lot of 'if/then' constructs
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[chee] today i'm continuing to try to deal with my mental block on that the base microformat for `image` appears to be `u-photo`, which causes me the greatest of semantic unease. because most of the images i want to post are not photos
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sparseMatrix Heh. I thought I was the only one that did shit like that...
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[girrodocus] Really useful you sharing this @sparseMatrix! Tonight I will be following a digital ocean tutorial that includes the site-enabled/sites-available method. First time I’ve ever set up nginx or a web server. Total noob.
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sparseMatrix I once had a webpage root that had a folder static/pictures static/images and static/graphics
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sparseMatrix @girrdocus will you be doing nginx, apache, or something else?
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sparseMatrix oh I see now, nm heh
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[girrodocus] Digital Ocean droplet. Ubuntu 20.04(LTS)x64. Nginx. Node.js. Tiddlywiki5. That’s what I’m working towards.
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sparseMatrix yeah, I'm an old hand with apache, but have never done nginx before
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[KevinMarks] we have u-logo in h-card as well, but reusing field names rather than being nitpicky is the microfromats way
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sparseMatrix I used to use tiddlywiki, when it was pre 1.0 :)
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[girrodocus] I’m as green as you get. A real real noob.
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[girrodocus] Wow that must be a while back!
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sparseMatrix 6 or 8 years ago at least
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sparseMatrix it was something I ultimately abandoned because I got bored talking to myself lol
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sparseMatrix @KevinMarks: it's an OCD thing.
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@kristofz Discovered the IndieWeb and Webmentions a couple of days ago ... and they got me. https://kiko.io/categories/Tools/Hexo-and-the-IndieWeb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1392821179090669570)
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[KevinMarks] fair - the microformats process is at least partly about strategies for suppressing the compulsion to label everything http://microformats.org/wiki/process
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sparseMatrix hah, speaking of static assets
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sparseMatrix I've got nginx serving mine now, without reverse proxies
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sparseMatrix that's about the only thing I don't want to be running that way, though
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sparseMatrix everything else is or will be python or node
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sparseMatrix *progress*
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sparseMatrix high fives everyone
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sparseMatrix rando word of the day: "Abstruse", courtesy of "Word Genius"
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sparseMatrix Def - "Difficult to understand; obscure, esoteric, arcane'
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sparseMatrix couldn't have picked a better one myself :p
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[KevinMarks] one example of converged naming - we use `name/summary/content` for 3 levels of detail in as many places as possible, though for certain kinds of things `title` seems more natural than `name` in English. in h-card the difference between `photo` and `logo` is significant, and you can likely have both.
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sparseMatrix well, incremental progress at least...
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sparseMatrix I got uwsgi attempting to start my reader application (the half of my CMS that talks to the web)
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sparseMatrix but it's failing because the virtualenv is not active in that context
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sparseMatrix it can't load the module e.g., markdown2
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sknebel you can set that in the config
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sknebel "virtualenv=" and "pythonpath=" options
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[chee] i was going to try to syndicate new tracks from my site to soundcloud, but it turns out the part of their site for creating apps has been replaced with a disabled google form that says "sorry"
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sknebel lol, but they are still blogging about new API features...
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[tantek] there's already a generic semantic for image, the <img> tag
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[chee] :)
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[chee] why does the advice for video recommend using a `<video/>` with a class of `u-video` https://indieweb.org/video
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gRegorLove u-video is a microformats2 property, so parsers will pull out the URL of the video
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[chee] it looks like the best way to push a feed to soundcloud is with IFTTT. i guess they got themselves an API key before Soundcloud replaced their app creation flow with nothing
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@BiswasSholanki ↩️ Joined the session on webmentions @ChrisAldrich. Definitely an eye opener. Will there be anymore later? I would love to know if there is a way to insert webmentions by server sites which do not support it, so that there is less dependency on them? What say? (twitter.com/_/status/1392890530841862146)
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[tantek] chee, indeed the u-video classname is recommended when you want that video to be considered the primary content of the h-entry
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[tantek] that is, that classname is expressing the semantic of "this post is a video", rather than just "this is a video" (which is what the <video> tag is expressing). make sense?
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[chee] yes! that makes sense. thank you, tantek. i guess what was bothering me was when i want to say "this post is a picture" my only way to say that is "this post is a photo", which is not true for a lot of these. i really want to say "this post is a ✨Visual Artwork✨"
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[chee] so I've settled on making them a note, with the image as `u-featured` and using a tag to classify them
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[tantek] you're right, that's an unfortunate mismatch between what appears to be the precision of "u-photo" and the intent of "this *post* is a still image"
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[tantek] that's probably worth an FAQ
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[tantek] and what others said is correct, the history here is that "photo" posts were a strong motivator / driver of this design, though I don't think there was every any intent to be strictly limiting "photo" posts to only actual photographs
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gRegorLove For consumers of those properties it's more about how they're displayed than whether the content is actually a photograph or visual artwork
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[tantek] it's kinda like Instagram was intended for photo posting, and yet it's used for all sorts of visual artworks, diagrams etc.
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[tantek] after that recent htaccess talk, I found myself in the rabbithole of reviewing my own root level htaccess and finding plenty to update!
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[tantek] and updated. fixed a bunch of URL fix-up redirects (e.g. shortlinks, and 404s found in server logs) to go directly to https: instead of http:
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[chee] nice :)
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[tantek] and speaking of what to name your "feed file", looks like I went through a few variants on my way to "updates.atom"
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[tantek] looks like I started with "atom.xml" then "posts.atom" and finally "updates.atom"
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[tantek] as an example, for those using Apache who want to rename their feed file and keep supporting past consuming apps:
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[tantek] RedirectPermanent /posts.atom https://tantek.com/updates.atom
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[tantek] ^ for your .htaccess (replacing tantek.com with your own domain obv 🙂 )
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gRegorLove Ah, didn't know RedirectPermanent. Always learning new .htaccess things, hah
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[chee] haha, my nginx config has so many redirects to bring old subscribers to the correct feed path
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[jacky] I should do some permaredirects on my site too from the logs
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Loqi +1
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[jacky] see, now I can't tell if Loqi does that randomly lol
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[jacky] I wonder if if it's the word "should" and "too" here
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[chee] I should eat a large cheese
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[jacky] me too
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[chee] hmm
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[jacky] dang lol
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[jacky] might be a timer on it too
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[jacky] we could _always_ look at the source but that's no fun 👅
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sknebel you hacked aaronpk?
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Loqi yea
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[jacky] haha
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sknebel not you Loqi, that you have your source code is not the question :D
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[tantek] gives Loqi the source
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Loqi grabs the source
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[tantek] I knew it
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[tantek] apparently got upgraded to PHP 7.4. Email from DreamHost: "tantek.com has been upgraded to PHP v7.4!"
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barnabywalters congratulations
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[dianoetic_net] Going crosseyed from markup but this HTML is going to be beautiful.
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sparseMatrix is getting dizzy
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sparseMatrix ...from going around in circles with uwsgi
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sparseMatrix I think I have it working if I can just get it to activate the virtualenv
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sparseMatrix I mean I got it to use python3, so that's something
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sparseMatrix wow I think I got it lol
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sparseMatrix says it's activated the environment, and it is running my app
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sparseMatrix now I have to test! but I dunno what to do yet, the first time I got that far heh
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sparseMatrix well
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sparseMatrix I did the things
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sparseMatrix all the lights are green
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sparseMatrix no errors
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sparseMatrix hell, not even any warnings...
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sparseMatrix but no workie
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lahacker are you using a socket or a local port for your python app?
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[KevinMarks] The images vs photos thing was an issue for flickr too
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sparseMatrix @lahacker: I'm a rank newb to the nginx/python/uwsgi recipe, so I'm probably trying to do both
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sparseMatrix In fact, I suspect that I am
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lahacker if you instruct uwsgi to run your python app at a port you can try accessing the app itself directly to determine if that's the problem
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lahacker but yeah you have the two options and you need to configure both uwsgi and nginx to use the same method
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sparseMatrix that's a pretty good clue
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sparseMatrix I shall endeavor pursue it ; )
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sparseMatrix I know I got uwsgi configured as such (just checked)
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sparseMatrix lemme ck nginx
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sparseMatrix hmmm, no, it too is configured to the socket file
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sparseMatrix but I do know the app is running on port 5000
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lahacker sparseMatrix: want to troubleshoot over zoom real quick?
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sparseMatrix @lahacker I really appreciate the offer, but I'm running linux all over, Idk even if I can zoom that....and no cameras on those machines for sure
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sparseMatrix that machine, heh
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lahacker just a screen share will do
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sparseMatrix yeah, no zoom for raspi :/
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sparseMatrix I've been zooming using my iPad, but there's no code on that thing
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lahacker sparseMatrix point ipad cam at rpi tv?
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sparseMatrix lol yeah I can do that I reckon
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lahacker https://zoom.us/j/94365447334?pwd=QWNzdEYzb0dUcHNMejhpem1iRzFDdz09
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[manton] In anticipation of the Webmention session this weekend, I made a video of how Micro.blog works with incoming Webmentions if anyone’s curious. https://www.manton.org/2021/05/13/webmention-on-microblog.html
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Loqi [Manton Reece] Webmention on Micro.blog demo
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ploden Hi! I'm looking to add comments to my blog.
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ploden Does indieweb.org support comments anywhere?
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aaronpk not sure what you mean, are you asking if there is a way you can test it?
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barnabywalters the indieweb way of supporting comments is using webmention and h-entry markup, to reply to a post on one site from another site https://indieweb.org/comment
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ploden I went looking for examples, and figured that if there were a "mainstream" way to support comments, indieweb.org would be demonstrating/dogfooding it
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ploden But there are no comments that I can find
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barnabywalters well indieweb.org is a wiki, and doesn’t really have any reason for comment functionality
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ploden So is there a similarly high profile indie web site that does?
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barnabywalters IIRC we’ve used webmention RSVPs for indieweb events?
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aaronpk i'm not sure what this emphasis on "high profile" is :)
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aaronpk there's lots of websites that support receiving comments via webmention
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barnabywalters check out some of the examples https://indieweb.org/reply#IndieWeb_Examples
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barnabywalters those are of people posting replies to their sites
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aaronpk and yes the event pages on events.indieweb.org do receive comments via webmention too
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barnabywalters and here are examples of people’s sites who support receiving replies https://indieweb.org/Webmention#IndieWeb_Examples
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KartikPrabhu ploden: see https://indieweb.org/comments#IndieWeb_Examples and https://indieweb.org/Webmention#IndieWeb_Examples
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KartikPrabhu jinx! :P
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barnabywalters oh hi KartikPrabhu, long time no jinx
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KartikPrabhu hello!
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ploden That's perfect. Thanks!
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[tantek] ploden, check out the world famous [Jeremy_Keith]'s site https://adactio.com/ where all the comments on posts are via webmentions, for example: https://adactio.com/articles/17733
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Loqi Jeremy Keith
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barnabywalters thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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[jacky] [manton]++
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Loqi [manton] has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (22 in all channels)
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gRegorLove oh hey, it's barnabywalters! Hiya
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barnabywalters gReetings, gRegorLove!
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gRegorLove Oh neat, I didn't know Quill did the preview of the post you're replying to. Very cool.
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gRegorLove [manton]++ nice video
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Loqi [manton] has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (23 in all channels)
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[manton] [gRegorLove] I didn’t know either until testing this!
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[dianoetic_net] Is there a favorite license of the indieweb community?
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[jacky] [dianoetic_net] what do you mean? like code licensing? I don't _think_ so tbh
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sknebel for the microformats parsers we sort-of have a policy of going for something permissive because we want them to be widely used infrastructure, and I think most of them are MIT licensed.
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sknebel but for other things people do what they feel is appropriate
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[snarfed] there’s a small public domain contingent
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[snarfed] (mmm licensing debates 🍿)
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[jacky] lol