#dev 2021-10-08

2021-10-08 UTC
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@aaronpk ↩️ There are definitely some similarities since they are both adding an identity layer on top of OAuth. IndieAuth is a much smaller surface area tho and does less stuff. Some more details here: https://indieweb.org/How_is_IndieAuth_different_from_OpenID_Connect (twitter.com/_/status/1446329570471251974)
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capjamesg[d] How would I go about finding the location behind coordinates in a h-geo?
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capjamesg[d] I wanted to add support for parsing h-geo locations into IndieWeb Search.
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capjamesg[d] I use a Google API for converting coordinates into locations on my micropub server but I don't want to use that approach here.
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capjamesg[d] I also wonder if it's worth adding likes / comments as a SERP feature. Maybe not because the index might not crawl a page for a while. Still interesting!!
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capjamesg[d] In fact, maybe parsing h-geo isn't very useful, other than maybe to show a special "posted in" serp.
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Ruxton capjamesg[d]: do you just not want to lean on googles API's? or are you trying to do it without anyones APIs? cos you need a data set of geo+names to reference, i assume this is also only for cases where name isn't set already or is set to the co-ordinates values?
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nekr0z I'd expect there to be a name af a place or something in the post itself if it matters. If it doesn't and only coordinates are given, maybe simply showing those on a piece of map is a healthier approach than trying to guess which of a dozen cafes in that building the post was written in (and fail, because it was either author's office in the same building or the pub that is comfortably located in the backyard :)
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capjamesg[d] That is very true nekr0z.
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capjamesg[d] I wonder if I could use aaronpk's Atlas to render those coordinates. (aaronpk :D)
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capjamesg[d] Ruxton I think I have found a reverse geocoding package in Python. I haven't looked into it but I assume it uses some kind of local dataset.
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capjamesg[d] Using an API adds an extra API call to any request where I want to trigger the featured snippet.
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capjamesg[d] I suppose Atlas itself is an API though.
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capjamesg[d] nekr0z I parse h-adr for addresses. This was just for an extra feature. Maybe I could add the map as a bonus in a featured snippet.
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capjamesg[d] h-geo doesn't sound appropriate for identifying exact locations.
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capjamesg[d] nekr0z++
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Loqi nekr0z has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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nekr0z capjamesg[d]: looks reasonable
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capjamesg[d] I wonder what query classes this would help address.
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capjamesg[d] What would one search for that should return a map?
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[KevinMarks] check ins?
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[KevinMarks] some events?
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capjamesg[d] That’s what I was thinking.
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capjamesg[d] But I don’t actually provide any special functionality for checkins.
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capjamesg[d] I wonder whether they are out of scope.
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capjamesg[d] Events are a good use case for sure.
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capjamesg[d] What special function would be appropriate for a check in? A map in a SERP? A map in a special box at the top, like the rel=me and social boxes.
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capjamesg[d] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866577430886350869/895998047874580510/Screenshot_from_2021-10-08_12-35-59.png
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capjamesg[d] With "The map at the top of this search result is provided by the p3k Atlas API." attribution at the bottom of the page.
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GWG capjamesg[d]: I do a lot with maps and location. .what exactly is your goal?
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capjamesg[d] The reverse geolocation was mostly a bad idea.
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capjamesg[d] What do you think about the image above?
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capjamesg[d] The goal is to provide a visual representation of where an event is.
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[KevinMarks] not bad - you could use leaflet but that adds client-side js load
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capjamesg[d] I am trying to avoid as much client side load as I can.
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aaronpk One challenge with maps is picking an appropriate zoom level
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aaronpk if an event is in "Portland", you don't want a super close zoomed map on a random point that happens to be the center
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aaronpk but if there's a venue you do want it super close
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capjamesg[d] That’s very true.
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capjamesg[d] I had not thought about that.
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capjamesg[d] Maybe if there is a h adr on the page I should zoom further.
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[KevinMarks] that's where a dynamic one using leaflet is handy
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aaronpk Still need to set a good initial zoom
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aaronpk where does IPFS / Dat fit in to the Web 3.0 picture?
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[jacky] IPFS, IIRC, is the "go-to" for 'information storage'
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[jacky] the "S3" of it, if you may
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[jacky] Dat, oddly enough, isn't really _that_ invested in it. I have to ask Paul more about it but people don't seem to use it a lot (I think it's a marketing thing and since he actively aims to build things _on top_ of Hypercore/Dat that are relatively usable)
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[jacky] IPFS is more block-chainy in the sense that it uses multihash concepts and Hypercore (at its core) is like Bittorrent for arbitrary data
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aaronpk i'm seeing references to ethereum name registration in order to get a "domain name" for an IPFS site, so is that the only blockchain overlap with IPFS?
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[jacky] I don't know too much about Etherenum TBH so I can't say
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aaronpk i'm specifically wondering if there's a place for IPFS on the https://indieweb.org/Web_3.0 page
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aaronpk or have they never claimed IPFS-related things are web3
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[jacky] Not directly _but_ I know that IPFS is a go-to for NFT storage (versus using solid HTTP links) when referring to assets
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[jacky] I wish we could ask this on Twitter without the flood
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[jacky] I ask some people I know directly to avoid that
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[jacky] If i do find out, I'll update that page with a link
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[KevinMarks] Dat has a way to link to the dat version from your https website
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[KevinMarks] .well-known/dat
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[KevinMarks] Not sure if they renamed that to hypercore too
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[KevinMarks] If cloudflare will seed ipfs for you that could be a useful thing
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capjamesg[d] What is IPFS?
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Loqi IPFS is short for InterPlanetary File System, potentially a static site storage method using content based addressing https://indieweb.org/IPFS
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nekr0z I used to mirror my site to IPFS (it's easy with a static site) and have a script automatically update `_dnslink` record to point to the latest version. It kinda worked.
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nekr0z I don't do that any longer, because IPFS is a memory hog that brought my cheap VPS to its knees every now and then, and I got tired of trying to tame it.
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micahrl[m] Not directly related to IPFS, but that discussion makes me realize that IndieAuth might be a cool way to set up a community on Tor. Hostnames are free and HTTPS certificates aren't necessary in an all-Tor community that uses IndieAuth for validation, and you can even run a site on a computer at home without worrying about firewalls or port forwarding.
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[jacky] Technically, yeah!
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[jacky] You could squeeze in your Onion address in your h-card if you want it to be shown on the public Web but it doesn't have to 🙂
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[KevinMarks] https://twitter.com/__apf__/status/1446503789586894850
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@__apf__ Starting today, we're experimenting on Chrome stable with a Following feature. You can choose websites to follow, and their RSS updates will appear on Chrome's new tab page. We've been working on this for a while & I'm super excited to hear what people think 👇 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBMDhu7UcAI2AuV.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1446503789586894850)
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[schmarty]1 TorBrowser also looks for an HTTP header for onion sites: https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/08/190614/
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Loqi [Marty McGuire] Thanks to Onion Location you will now be reminded you can view your favorite loops of my cat more securely when using Tor Browser. https://blog.torproject.org/more-onions-porfavor https://res.cloudinary.com/schmarty/image/fetch/w_960,c_fill/https://media.martymcgui.re/d8/64/2e/c4/6c0117e1543e0e685085197fc8182e7abadf2b3d47edcd3c2e5785bd.png
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capjamesg[d] Wow, that is cool!
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capjamesg[d] Although I’m going to stick with Monocle for feed reading.
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[tantek]1 no direct tie between IPFS and all the "web3" hype. all the indirect stuff (but you *could* use it for storage for some other random web3 thing) is not a connection
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[tantek]1 just like JPEGs aren't an NFT thing, even though a lot of NFTs use JPEGs or at least links to JPEGs (which die pretty quickly themselves)
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[tantek]1 aside, in going through some old papers, I found the original "Web 2.0" concept map papers / exercises that O'Reilly printed out and handed out back in the day, before "What is Web 2.0" got big. Ironically (or appropriately?) even the concept of Web 2.0 itself was somewhat (small) crowd-sourced.
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aaronpk oh wow i want to see those
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[tantek]1 aaronpk it was in a pack of "Meme Maps" for comparison / contrast / inspiration
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[tantek]1 page 1 was "Free Software Meme Map": https://web.archive.org/web/20120202021508/http://openp2p.com/p2p/2000/12/05/images/800-freesw.jpg
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[tantek]1 (btw, this is why you include URLs on printouts)
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[tantek]1 page 2 was "Open Source Meme Map": https://web.archive.org/web/20161204013357/http://www.openp2p.com/2000/12/05/images/800-opensource.jpg
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[tantek]1 then page 3 was the same style of image except with heading "Web 2.0 Meme Map" and all the ovals were empty, and the lists were empty too (but still had the headings of "Strategic Positioning:", "User Positioning:", "Core Competencies:"
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[tantek]1 then I have a loose page (which maybe they printed out and handed out after the session?) with *some* of the ovals filled in and some of the lists with items, also with heading "Web 2.0 Meme Map"
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[KevinMarks] I have lost track, are these 2 the useful ones? https://twitter.com/RickByers/status/1446567962434019328?s=20
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@RickByers Think passwords and login forms are dumb? Come work with us to make identity on the web easier to use and more private through projects like WebID and WebAuthn. We're building out our Web Identity team in Waterloo, Canada and globally. Apply here: https://careers.google.com/jobs/results/130376740296893126-software-developer/ (twitter.com/_/status/1446567962434019328)
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GWG aaronpk: Could you look at IndieAuth PR #90, and #94 to see if you think the fixes address prior concerns you expressed?
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aaronpk [KevinMarks]: which WebID are they talking about 😂
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@vincentlistens ↩️ There is no financial incentive or legal reason to share data so they don't. The protocols to do this have been around for years and they are mostly ignored. W3C backed way to do this: http://indieweb.org http://indieauth.net (twitter.com/_/status/1446583066793627648)
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[tantek]1 aaronpk, [KevinMarks] you may want to note they've already decided to change the name: https://github.com/WICG/WebID/issues/41#issuecomment-936807999
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aaronpk oh nice