#dev 2022-02-27

2022-02-27 UTC
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barnaby do we have an algorithm for “given someone’s homepage, how do I find the URL of their main feed (if they don’t have a homepage feed)
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barnaby ” closequote
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barnaby is it just “look for rel=feed”?
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GWG barnaby: You are behind there
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GWG https://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed#Discovery
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GWG It changed more recently.
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GWG rel=feed is out
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barnaby I guess the reference to rel=feed should be removed from https://indieweb.org/feed#How_To_Consume then
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aaronpk I thought rel=Fred was something different than h-feed
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aaronpk Omg autocorrect
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barnaby hi Fred
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barnaby rel=Fred is an extension to FOAF, for marking up links to people with whom your relationship is simply “Fred”
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barnaby from GWG’s link, linked h-feed discovery should now be done via rel=alternate links with a text/mf2+html media type
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GWG barnaby: Hasn't yet been fully adopted though
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barnaby updating https://indieweb.org/feed#How_To_Consume (and noting optional fallback to past solutions) might be a good step towards adoption
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GWG barnaby: Not a bad idea. I don't think we did that after the discussion that prompted that
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barnaby rel alternate seems like a weird choice for cases where you’re linking to a feed from a non-feed profile page, rather than the intended usage of linking to an alternative representation of the same content with a different content type
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barnaby but I guess you discussed that already :D
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GWG barnaby: But isn't that also what rel-alternate for RSS does right now?
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GWG A page that has a rel-alternate of text/mf2+html pointing to itself would be as you noted
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barnaby afaik the intended usage is that a page showing an HTML representation of a feed uses rel=alternate to link to an alternative representation of the same content, but serialised using RSS/ATOM
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GWG barnaby: Intended, but not actual usage in practice
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barnaby whereas the use case I was talking about, having a homepage which has no feed, and a link to a separate feed page, is not an alternate representation of the same content
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GWG barnaby: I agree with you on the intended use of alternate. But is it how it is actually used in the wild?
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GWG I was leaning toward rel-feed myself.
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barnaby sometimes? often? but not always, because once feed readers implemented rel=alternate based discovery, people started using it outside how it was intended
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barnaby publishing h-feed is so different that I don’t see much benefit to piggybacking on that discovery method, personally
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GWG Might be worthy of revisiting, being as not everyone has adopted then
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barnaby yeah reading through the archived discussion, I’m not entirely convinced
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GWG I was just advocating for better h-feed discovery.
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barnaby oh I agree with the need for that!
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GWG When I first wrote about it, I was contemplating compound rels.
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2020/02/11/exploring-feed-discovery-and-markup/
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jacky good convo
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Loqi jacky: sknebel left you a message 1 day, 13 hours ago: back to your desktop reader work?
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jacky b/c I've been working about that
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jacky skenbel: that I am (re:desktop work); got inspired by Tootle and Communique
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[snarfed] I'm not really on board with the move to rel-alternate yet
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[snarfed] https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/1071#issuecomment-938346646
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Loqi [snarfed] Looked into this a bit. Not easy. There are many times more `rel="alternate"` links in the average page than `rel="feed"` links, and mf2 parsers don't give us their `types`, so we either have to dig it out of the raw HTML ourselves, or fetch (at leas...
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GWG [snarfed]: So, your first thought is we need to have the mf2 parsers offer types?
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[snarfed] I guess?
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[snarfed] not proposing a specific solution, just explaining why I can't switch
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GWG [snarfed]: I'm just wondering if that is a good thing regardless
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[snarfed] "that"?
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[snarfed] oh, mf2 parsers offering types. maybe!
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GWG Trying to figure out where to propose that.
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[snarfed] it would definitely help me switch to rel-alternate
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GWG [snarfed]: I'm checking, php-mf2 does return the type in the rel-urls property
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GWG So does the python one.
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GWG So it is there already
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[snarfed] pretty sure it wasn't when I looked, but I can check again
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GWG https://python.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsnarfed.org&parser=html5lib
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[snarfed] oh interesting, it is there now! wonder if it got added recently. that's great!
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GWG I'm going to check if my code uses it, I may have forgotten it was there
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[KevinMarks] Type was in the spec for that use case and for media matching
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@juanfernandes Just read: "Why I think webmentions are complex. - Ru Singh" https://rusingh.com/why-think-webmentions-complex/ (twitter.com/_/status/1497898447403372547)
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jacky that post reminds me a bit of [schmarty]'s post on Webmentions
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@AlexWilsonV1 ↩️ Thanks for the words Rowan - and the gentle reminder to fix webmentions. GitHub Actions & Karaoke really are the best medicine: A good reminder to always channel our inner Kelsier. (that CLI is legitimately so dope - major OBT vibes!) (twitter.com/_/status/1497950231882829832)
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@ariadneconill ↩️ afaik OIDC (and also IndieAuth) are supposed to just pass through unrecognized claims transparently (twitter.com/_/status/1497955451106996233)
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[KevinMarks] I suppose that you could map webmentions into a micropub post to create comments, the way bridgy does with blogger comments.
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sknebel https://typesense.org/ I love the tagline: "Lightning-fast, Open Source Search.No PhD required." ;)
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sknebel search << https://typesense.org/ open-source search service (hosted version available) - https://typesense.org/typesense-vs-algolia-vs-elasticsearch-vs-meilisearch/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://typesense.org/ open-source search service (hosted version available) - https://typesense.org/typesense-vs-algolia-vs-elasticsearch-vs-meilisearch/" to the "See Also" section of /search https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79802&oldid=79613
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aaronpk i've been meaning to try that
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aaronpk kinda want to replace my elasticsearch instance
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capjamesg[d] aaronpk what do you use elastic search for?
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aaronpk the search box on my site
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capjamesg[d] Oh that is cool sknebel?
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capjamesg[d] *!
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jacky hm the tool https://gimme-a-token.5eb.nl/ doesn't support PKCE :(
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Loqi Gimme an Access Token
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angelo i too would like to try typesense but i was dissapointed to discover that it doesn't support "phrase search" https://typesense.org/typesense-vs-algolia-vs-elasticsearch-vs-meilisearch/
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sknebel thats kinda surprising
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sknebel seems on roadmap for next release at least
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jacky mellisearch looks like something I'd want to use from that list
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jacky eh
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jacky the more I look into reply contexts, the less I want to do them in my own site
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jacky I have like ~4 cases for content and that's doubled in the event that someone provides a summary
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jacky different cases if it's a photo or video
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jacky I kinda want to just have a Web component like <reply-context class="h-cite u-url" href="http://magic.com" /> and let mf2 parsers do that
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jacky but in browsers, let some remote service do the magic of 'parsing' it so it looks semi-contextually relevant to its surrounding text
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jacky hm that would have to be <reply-context class='h-cite"><a href="http://magic.com" class="u-url">Url</a></reply-context> actually since href pulling it specific to <a><area><link>
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angelo oh nice, i guess i'll wait for phrase search to land before i give it a whirl. good find sknebel.
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sknebel angelo: https://github.com/typesense/typesense/issues/272 to follow
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Loqi [bnfd] #272 exact match and phrase query supported?
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[tantek] Via #indieweb-meta https://desmondrivet.com/2022/02/27/post-type-org - do we have a page somewhere that discusses the whole periodic debate that occurs here about how many (if more than one) feeds or streams one “should” publish and why or why not? I liked the path of analysis in this blog post and we need to capture more like that to help find common ground and patterns
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Loqi [Desmond Rivet] A Place For Everything
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GWG [tantek]: I'm on a system that publishes a feed for everything.