#dev 2022-08-11

2022-08-11 UTC
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[Jamie_Tanna] omz13 yep, that was just a quick example :)
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[Jamie_Tanna] But yay capjamesg!
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Loqi :D
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[tantek] in HWC Pacific we discussed the fact that dt-accessed in h-cite may have a close enough semantic to "read-of" that it could be used for that
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[tantek] while not being restricted to "reading", i.e. on the internet at least, a video or audio file could also be "accessed" at a certain date/time, and thus "watched" or "listened"
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IWDiscordGateway <jacky> Interesting
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IWDiscordGateway <jacky> I do capture that kind of info in my micropub server (about last fetched resources)
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IWDiscordGateway <jacky> Would be useful for a reader to consume to see if it also has a copy of said info (or if a public archive reports a newer version) and consensually show that
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@OpenMentions ↩️ That potentially means more WebMention users and that can only be good. (twitter.com/_/status/1557711563317993475)
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@mikevdev ↩️ Totally agree. I'm still reworking my post creation API so that I can implement sending webmentions as well as recieving them. But I'm really hopeful to see more people use webmention-handler to implement recieving. (twitter.com/_/status/1557739216787738625)
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gRegor ooh, I like that dt-accessed idea
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[tantek] so a read (media consumed) post just turns into an h-entry u-in-reply-to the h-cite with URL, dt-accessed for the key information of when you read/consumed that media, and no e-content, and maybe an optional e-summary if you want to provide fallback plain text equivalent for it.
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[tantek] E.g. text-first-design brainstormed in : https://indieweb.org/read#Tantek_thoughts
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[tantek] one UI / expectation challenge I see is the desire to express having *finished* a book or article, not just having acquired/opened it in a new tab etc.
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sknebel u-in-reply-to feels weird
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sknebel to overload like that
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aaronpk Yeah agreed, as an author I'm not "replying" to the media, im just posting about it
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[tantek] that's fair. and reviews are different too
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[aciccarello] The one github issue about this mentioned different state options which seems relevant
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[tantek] yeah, relevant and also could be overdesigned for the common use-case of "I finished this thing"
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[aciccarello] gregor's message for reference
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[aciccarello] > "Some discussion in https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/18 and https://github.com/microformats/h-entry/issues/10#issuecomment-671090023"
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Loqi [dshanske] #18 Discussion of Status for Proposed Properties watch, read, and listen
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[tantek] and there's the other extreme of folks keeping track of precisely where they left off (page number, pause point in time, etc.) which maybe is "just" a whole bookmark in itself
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[tantek] read-of implied completion by default IIRC
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gRegor So there's some overloading of the term here I think
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gRegor When I first started using read-of on my site, then on indiebookclub, it was used for books only and any status of: want to read, currently (or "started") reading, and finished reading.
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gRegor Then I think others were using them in reply to articles they read, and one of the WordPress plugins would show those as special reactions to the post
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gRegor For IBC's read-of posts, they use p-read-status to convey the to-read, currently, or finished statuses (I'm very uncommitted to this mf2 property, heh)
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gRegor On IBC, so far at least, there isn't really the idea of it being in response to some URL that you would notify with webmention
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gRegor I think that last part is where I often get hung up considering the difference between "I read this thing and here's a notification" and "I started reading this book"
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[tantek] read-of is essentially a response to some URL though by design
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GWG WordPress uses read-of or the other variations as someone saying they read something or watched it...I was enjoying displaying people who said they listened to my podcast
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gRegor Think I agree. When I first started using it years ago I was mainly just thinking of a property to contextualize the h-cite contained in it, which I realize isn't really correct with more experience
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GWG I always had an issue with like being a judgment
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[tantek] you mean as opposed to favorite? (ducks)
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gRegor quacks
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gRegor These type of read-of properties (https://indiebookclub.biz/documentation#micropub) aren't even consumed much. I think schmarty does. micro.blog uses the summary afaik
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gRegor IBC itself will consume them on the "new post" page but I doubt that's used much, and doesn't really count as a consumer, heh
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gRegor So I'm not very attached to most of the current properties and willing to change it up :)
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GWG [tantek]: Still haven't settled that after all these years
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[tantek] GWG, put it on the agenda for the next IWC NYC. cc: [schmarty]
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[schmarty] Yes hello. I consume my own read posts for my yearly "what I read" posts but I'm open to changing things.
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[schmarty] I may be misreading but want to clarify that I don't think a "read" is necessarily of a URL. While books sometimes have IDs there are several different systems. It should be enough to post like adactio.com does with "Finished reading Book Title by Author Name"
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[schmarty] (I prefer the individual pieces (finished, book title, author name) to have some mf2 rather than trying to cleverly parse plaintext)
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[schmarty] I think "in-reply-to" is a bad fit for a post saying I read something. Unless I have commentary I want to direct back to the author, I don't think it's a response to anything. At best it's a mention.
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gRegor [schmarty], how do you feel about h-cite (title, author) and category for the status?
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capjamesg Wow: https://facebook.com/robots.txt
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[schmarty] feels messy because categories are necessarily a muck
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capjamesg "automated means is prohibited unless you have express written permission from Facebook"
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[schmarty] like I could work with it and it maps easily enough but I might publish "finished" and you might publish "done" and I don't know the Dutch word for "complete" but that'll end up on a post, ...
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gRegor Fair. Hm, even if the client UI still had a dropdown?
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gRegor e.g. Tags: [enter your custom tags] Status: [dropdown]. Inputs get merged and sent as the category.
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[schmarty] A dropdown still only works if all folks publishing reads agrees on the accepted list of categories
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gRegor Oh! I was thinking they would just post the categories as is
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gRegor Hm, yeah I dunno
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[schmarty] As long as everyone uses the same client or all clients agree on the categories, maybe
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[schmarty] But a non-English-language site owner may not want English categories/tags
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[schmarty] (And English-language sites may disagree on the categories because of personal meaning)
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gRegor Ah, right on the language. I guess that's why I started with p-read-status
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gRegor If categories were used, I wasn't thinking there'd be any special consuming case, though.
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gRegor Here's a manual post I did with category for a want to listen: https://gregorlove.com/2021/02/want-to-listen-good-christian/
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Want to listen: Good Christian Fun podcast: Mark Lowry (with Justin McElroy)
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[schmarty] Heh what is a "special" consuming case?
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gRegor Like, any? What's the consuming case for a to-read, to-listen, etc
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[schmarty] https://martymcgui.re/2022/01/13/things-i-read-in-2021/
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[schmarty] I also keep coming close to building a consumer of my to-read posts to help me pick next books to read 🙂
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gRegor Ok, I think I get you now. If client A used to-read and B used want-to-read it makes aggregating those harder.
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[schmarty] yeah you would need human intervention for most everyone's special category-based filing method
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gRegor Ok, pretty convinced category isn't the way to go, for language differences plus that, heh
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aaronpk Lol at the "careers" path being explicitly allowed for indexing
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gRegor haha
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gRegor no 3 laws of robotics either
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