#dev 2022-08-20

2022-08-20 UTC
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@nekr0z You should totally stick with your solution, sure. I envy you a little: you’ve built something, perhaps learned a couple of things along the way — that’s a big part of the fun about IndieWeb. (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/webmention-rss-1/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964294854021121)
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@nekr0z @c No, I don’t have http://Micro.blog’s webmentions blocked, and yet I wouldn’t have seen this reply of yours if I didn’t open this conversation today to link to it as an example of something that is wrong with http://Micro.blog. Replies to… https://evgenykuznetsov.org/reactions/2020/18/ (twitter.com/_/status/1560964592934813697)
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@nekr0z Awesome! It did detect 4 comments and 28 reactions on 5 posts for me, but it looks like something is lacking in the webmention department. https://brid.gy/facebook/evgenykuznetsov.org redirects to https://brid.gy/facebook/722007084 which stays empty… (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2021/bridgy-fb/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964312142938114)
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@nekr0z Awesome! It did detect 4 comments and 28 reactions on 5 posts for me, but it looks like something is lacking in the webmention department. https://brid.gy/facebook/evgenykuznetsov.org redirects to https://brid.gy/facebook/722007084 which stays empty… (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2021/bridgy-fb/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964312142938114)
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@nekr0z I’m using the http://webmention.io’s builtin RSS feed (the one that is called Mentions Feed in the Settings tab), and it works just fine for me. Was there a particular reason you chose not to use that one? (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/webmention-rss/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964287329435649)
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@nekr0z Congratulations! I’ve been having similar thoughts about owning my webmention data not that long ago, and wrote a little tool you might find helpful. (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/60-wm-backup/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964179627999232)
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@nekr0z @c No, I don’t have http://Micro.blog’s webmentions blocked, and yet I wouldn’t have seen this reply of yours if I didn’t open this conversation today to link to it as an example of something that is wrong with http://Micro.blog. Replies to… https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/18/ (twitter.com/_/status/1560964128642138113)
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@nekr0z Webmention itself only contains the link to the mentioning page, nothing more, not even the date/time (it’s up to receiving party to record the date/time the mention was received, if they care). Surprise: same goes for trackpacks and pingbacks! It’s up… https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/43-webmentions-wordpress/ (twitter.com/_/status/1560964115211886593)
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@nekr0z In my experience, http://Brid.gy is a much more flexible instrument when it comes to controlling and owning your tweets from your own website. (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/reactions/2020/7-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964628418641920)
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@nekr0z I wonder if http://Brid.gy will succeed to push this comment to Plume… (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2021/wagner-bridgy/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964429407207424)
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@nekr0z In my experience, http://Brid.gy is a much more flexible instrument when it comes to controlling and owning your tweets from your own website. (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/7-2/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964193574129664)
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@nekr0z ↩️ What I’m saying is that Bridgy Fed is just an icing on the http://Brid.gy cake. (https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/reactions/2020/15-1/) (twitter.com/_/status/1560964121662816256)
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[snarfed] As expected, the first hackermention complaint: https://github.com/snarfed/hackermention/issues/1
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Loqi [edent] #1 This has started spamming my blog
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sknebel wait it sends each comment on a submission?
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[snarfed] Yup
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sknebel ok, yeah, that's a bit much
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[snarfed] 🤷‍♂️
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sknebel especially given HN tendencies for comments to not be about the submission, but just using it as a trigger for related tangents
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[snarfed] True
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[snarfed] Maybe it is a bit provacative
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sknebel I would've expected for submissions one link to the submission page.
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sknebel and only send comments if the comment explicitly links a post
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[snarfed] Oh interesting sure
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sknebel (presumably only top-level comments at least?)
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aaronpk braces for his oauth post
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[snarfed] It is a bit deliberate, in the "anyone can send webmention HTTP requests" sense
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[snarfed] I'll happily opt him out though
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[snarfed] Not sure how to reconcile "love the idea" and "spamming," but no matter
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sknebel "HN backfeed is good, but not as intense as you build it"?
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk looking at one of my posts, i'm trying to imagine what i would expect to see as comments on my site https://aaronparecki.com/oauth-2-simplified/
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aaronpk https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17480668
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Loqi [buovjaga] OAuth for the Open Web
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aaronpk after about the 3rd level deep HN comment they end up being a conversation between commenters and not super relevant to my post anymore
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sknebel I think really only a "there was a HN discussion of this post (with X comments)" makes sense for submissions
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sknebel (X is of course a problem for still active ones)
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sknebel because even top level comments can be "I'll use this to talk about a vaguely related thing", "I'll complain that the submitter did something wrong", ...
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[KevinMarks] There's a salmentions aspect to it, but most of the webmention implementations don't deal with nesting
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[KevinMarks] Also bridgy for twitter doesn't go down the reply forks
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[snarfed] It does!
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sknebel I guess in principle it could make sense to pull in individual comments too, but yeah, then it is a bit "well, your problem if your moderation UI cant deal with it".
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[KevinMarks] Well, for https://www.kevinmarks.com/toolsforthinking.html I get direct mentions, and replies to the original tweet, but not my thread under it or replies to those
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[snarfed] To be fair, on heavily commented blog posts, those comments often quickly go of topic too
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aaronpk true, but i think there's even less expectation of keeping conversations on topic on HN
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[snarfed] [KevinMarks] yeah Twitter's search (which it uses) is best effort and sometimes incomplete
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aaronpk sometimes the first comment on a submission isn't even something the person would write as a comment on the post itself, and then the conversation goes off from there
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[snarfed] [aaronpk] maybe so
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[snarfed] Anyone know how Reddit compares? It's next on my list
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sknebel more dumb jokes, less nitpicking :P
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aaronpk ha
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sknebel in either case, aggregator comments, unless you make it very explicitly clear that you are submitting your own stuff (which reddit strongly discourages), are addressed differently than direct comments
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[KevinMarks] It will depend a lot on the subreddit as they have different personalities
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sknebel there is no expectation that the author of the link even sees them
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[snarfed] Sure
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sknebel or is part of the community that is commenting
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[snarfed] Definitely useful feedback. Thank you!
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sknebel lobsters does send WMs, but afaik only points o the submission page
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sknebel so a point towards pulling comments in would be if someone were to moderate/cherry-pick them, e.g. to respond to
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sknebel e.g. if you setup a system that it fetches the tree under your posts and if you want you can read it there. and make public posts you think make good points?
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sknebel (I assume for people with more followers Twitter comments are the same, to be fair)
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[KevinMarks] That one also shows the existing issue of me linking to the page more than once but they all get treated as the initial post. The fragmention link could maybe be treated differently? https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1560731079094308864?t=5ahDQbmo6xws8RrL1hQpKg&s=19
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@kevinmarks @defnotbeka @dietrich @IPFS @gordonbrander was talking about something like this last week https://www.kevinmarks.com/toolsforthinking.html#Subconscious (twitter.com/_/status/1560731079094308864)
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[snarfed] Fragment is an interesting idea
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[tantek] edent is a good and polite canary, I'd use him as representative of a lot of folks
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[snarfed] But yes, Bridgy has always been deliberately "promiscuous" like that
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[snarfed] [tantek] true!
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[snarfed] Maybe I'll switch to submission page only
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[KevinMarks] This is the classic problem of "no comments" -> "a few comments" -> "too many comments" -> "I am in notification hell" -> "I am twitter's main character today"
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[KevinMarks] Twitter now does have post hoc comment constraints (switch to only followers or only mentioned after posting more openly)
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sknebel https://github.com/snarfed/hackermention/issues/1#issuecomment-1221368376
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Loqi [edent] Heya, I think it is three things. 1. I didn't opt in. With Bridgy, I had to deliberately set it up to get webmentions from Twitter & Mastodon. 2. My blog is on HN *a lot*. I'm not sure I want to cope with 1,000s of comments flooding in. 3. The...
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GWG [KevinMarks]: I seem to recall a discussion about notification clustering at an IWC at MIT that might help
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GWG https://snarfed.org/clustering-notifications
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[snarfed] Replied! https://github.com/snarfed/hackermention/issues/1#issuecomment-1221385682
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Loqi [snarfed] Thanks for the details! A few thoughts: > 1. I didn't opt in. With Bridgy, I had to deliberately set it up to get webmentions from Twitter & Mastodon. True! I'm deliberately pushing the envelope a bit here. Even for sites like HN that don't sen...
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sknebel [snarfed]: if you add opt-in, you could do the per-comment thing opt-in
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sknebel [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (56 in all channels)
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[snarfed] true! the exciting part of doing global backfeed for aggregator sites is the global part, though. I'd get maybe hundreds of people to opt in, as opposed to the tens of millions of total users, which is much more motivating
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sknebel I meant that people that do want nested comments could opt-in to those, whereas default gets the per-submission at least
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[snarfed] true!
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capjamesg [snarfed] https://snarfed.org/2022-08-19_47378 :D
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capjamesg This made me laugh.
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Coffee shops are adult study hall. At Flywheel Coffee Roasters.
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[snarfed] 😁
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[snarfed] yum yum https://files.pushshift.io/
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gRegor aaronpk, when you have a chance, could you see if https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php/pull/19 is good to merge and make a new release?
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Loqi [gRegorLove] #19 Add support for IndieAuth metadata endpoint
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