#dev 2023-03-05

2023-03-05 UTC
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aaronpk Aren't the Delete activities still signed?
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[snarfed] yes
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[snarfed] rogue actors can send you any traffic you can think of, the internet is the wild west, but in practice the traffic you get is fairly predictable
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aaronpk ah right, they are signed, so as long as you've seen the key before, you can validate the Delete. if you haven't seen the key before, you can't validate it, but then you don't need to because you have nothing to delete because you've never seen it before
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prologic its a good idea actually
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prologic any advice on how I'm going to translate replies to/from Yarn/AP and have interop for threading?
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prologic Yarn uses content-addressing (Twt Hash), AP uses inReplyTo (urls)
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[tantek] [snarfed], this "it's possible Mastodon is promiscuous and advertises deletes everywhere just to be extra sure" sounds like a recipe for DDoS as the network grows
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[snarfed] Maybe!
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prologic isn't it already suffering from that?
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prologic Umm in testing with Mastodon instnaces I've found that mentions won't work properly
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prologic Where in any docs or specs that it require the actual content of a note to use micro formats for proper mentions?
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[snarfed] As usual for Mastodon interop, first look in https://docs.joinmastodon.org/spec/activitypub/
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prologic Does this mean every AP author follows the Mastodon spec for mentions
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prologic or the AP spec?
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prologic This is confusing :)
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prologic I thought it would be enough to have @user@domain in the content and tag: ojects as per the AP spec
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prologic but no :(
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[snarfed] 🤷‍♂️
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aaronpk now i wonder if my mentions work properly, i don't know if i've ever actually checked
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[snarfed] (I did say _for Mastodon interop_ 😁)
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[tantek] I'm auto-linking my @-@s and if that's not good enough for Masto-mentions then too bad, Masto can fix that
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[tantek] I don't really care to do extra work for that
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[tantek] now clickable hashtags OTOH...
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aaronpk well, properly done mentions means the difference between the person seeing it in their notifications tab or not
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[tantek] I'm ok with not spamming people's notifications tab
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[tantek] as soon as their server starts accepting Webmentions, mine will send them automatically when I update the post
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prologic problem with not doing this properly is people complain :)
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[tantek] how can they complain if they are not getting notifications they don't know about?
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aaronpk 😂
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prologic LOL
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prologic Ahh but they are see
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prologic Because that side of things works by looking at the tag objects
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prologic not the f'n content :(
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prologic We had to go and make (not we, Mastodon? :D) content HTML then shove in Micro Formats for god measure 🤦‍♂️
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[tantek] presumably you mean some extra JSON properties. I don't think microformats are involved in this at all
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prologic well micro formats are used in the content that's for sure
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prologic by both GTS instances and Mastodon
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prologic You're right, they have no bearing on how the notification gets into your "notifications tab"
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prologic But they do affect the behaviour (UX) of clients when clicking on said links or how they're rendered :(
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aaronpk "micro formats" or "Microformats"?
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prologic not sure how you spell it :)
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prologic probably the later?
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[tantek] Or perhaps you mean microsyntax
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[tantek] What is microsyntax
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Loqi microsyntax refers to short text conventions for conveying specific semantic meaning, such as an "@" prefix indicating a (user)name, or "#" prefix indicating a hashtag (both conventions popularized by Twitter) https://indieweb.org/microsyntax
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aaronpk better
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prologic No, I mean Microformats
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prologic like: "content": "<p><p>Hey <span><a href=\"https://gts.mills.io/users/prologic\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow noopener\">@<span>prologic</span></a></span> 👋</p>\n</p>",
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prologic Is that Microformats?
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[tantek] That looks like a mf2json parsed e-content property
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prologic Yup
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prologic This is what I'm seeing everywhere and what most clients and Ap implementations are doing
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure the content of the HTML value is not significant to mastodon's processing
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prologic but it is to its UI
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prologic man dealing with things that could be a single value or an array of values is a reall pain :(
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[tantek] painful reality is better than simpler but false assumptions
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[tantek] as developers dealing with real world content, and the future malleability of information schema, that is the way
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prologic I wish it was just more strict :)
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[tantek] nah, you really don't, because that would mean more strictness on the real world, which tends to be bad path to go down
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prologic I think I have a pretty good way (in code) to deal with this now: https://git.mills.io/yarnsocial/yarn/commit/e983fecda9a672ecce44cf3663cc1b894ed06428
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prologic yeaht its okay I mean it just makes more work for me :)
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prologic cost of strictness, harder to adopt by developers
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prologic cost of flexibility, harder to develop against
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prologic :D
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prologic trade-offs huh :)
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prologic Alrighty, that took me all day, but mentions are now working very nicely (finally)
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prologic I really don't know how I'm going to do threading interop though :)
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[tantek] threading interop like reply chains?
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prologic yup
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prologic both ways too, which is gonna be tricky
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prologic one side (Yarn) uses content addressing (hashes)
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prologic the other side (AP/Mastodon/etc) uses URIs
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prologic So how do you get AP actors to form long chains of threads?
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prologic is there another attribute besides inReplyTo ?
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prologic turns out adding threading isn't so hard
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prologic there's only one more case left I think
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prologic which is to figure out a way to tract actor notes and hash them so we can do a translation in that direction
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prologic https://twtxt.net/conv/rjdelaq
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prologic I can't quite work out what Mastodon is doing here ;)
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prologic Yarn supports Relying and Forking, I _think_ Mastodon only supports the later?
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prologic Not sure :)
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prologic it would appear that Mastodon and Activity Pub in general only knows how to do one kind of thread
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prologic which we (Yarn.social) called forking
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I'm working on a hosted Trackback Endpoint: https://github.com/capjamesg/trackback-server
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Loqi [preview] [capjamesg] trackback-server: A server to receive Trackbacks.
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[KevinMarks] Replying is threaded, forking is going back to the root? Like a quote tweet as fork?
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[KevinMarks] Mastodon gaining more html https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/23913
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Loqi [preview] [ClearlyClaire] #23913 Add support for incoming rich text
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[snarfed] whoa!
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[snarfed] I'm kinda shocked at how little that got bikeshedded
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[snarfed] (bikeshod?)
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[manton] Glad to see that change. At the very least, it was weird that bold and italics didn’t come through.
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[KevinMarks] I can nitpick <del> rather than <s> (as <del> belongs with <ins>) but a good sign. Maybe we can lobby for <sub> and <sup> too
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[tantek] what is sanitize
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Loqi sanitize, specifically "sanitizing HTML", "sanitizing for (display inside) HTML", or "sanitization" is a common operation performed by any site which displays content from external sources, including user entry https://indieweb.org/sanitize
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> What is sanitise?
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> https://indieweb.org/sanitise
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> sanitise is /sanitize
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[capjamesg] What is sanitise?
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[capjamesg] Loqi?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sanitise" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sanitise is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[capjamesg] what is sanitise
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sanitise" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sanitise is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[capjamesg] sanitise is /sanitize
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Loqi ok
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[capjamesg] Why thank you!
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[tantek] Markdown << Criticism: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/23913#issuecomment-1455180785
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/23913#issuecomment-1455180785" to the "See Also" section of /markdown https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=86882&oldid=82958
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[tantek] This (currently) last comment on that PR makes a good point: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/23913#issuecomment-1455180785
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[tantek] hmm I thought Loqi extracted those
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[tantek] > HTML is accessible for screen readers but text formatting like pure Markdown isn't (if it is not converted to HTML first).
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[tantek] > People are misusing Markdown-like formatting by plastering messages with `*something*` and `_something_`, and bullet lists etc. and it is not accessible for screen readers. There are complaints from screen reader users about Markdown-like plain text formatting.
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[tantek] > HTML should be the choice for formatting in Mastodon for accesibility reasons.
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[tantek] Once this update is deployed to enough Mastodon servers, I may have to add a bunch more auto-markup code to handle creating lists and such
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[tantek] too bad they didn't include dl, dt, dd tho
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aaronpk hmm is Loqi slacking on the job again
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> aaronpk Loqi was a bit slow for me.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> hands Loqi a cookie
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> What do blue dinosaurs eat?
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[tantek] gives Loqi a GitHub comment link
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Loqi steps on the GitHub comment link
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Eek.
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