#dev 2023-06-15
2023-06-15 UTC
# 
gRegor Unfortunately I think Bridgy Chrome extension is dead for me https://indieweb.org/Instagram#Automated_behavior_warning
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# 
Soni any updates on "web-ring search"?
# Soni (without crawlers)
# 
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "web-ring search" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "web-ring search is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Soni it's an idea we brought up a few times: web-ring search, without crawlers
# Soni each website in the ring would make its own index using its own criteria, and share that index with the rings
# Soni the rings would combine the indexes somehow and provide search
# Soni is it harder to use than global search? yeah. but not by much. and it sidesteps LLMs entirely.
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# Loqi wikifying is the practice of capturing information and ideas on the wiki https://indieweb.org/wikify
# [snarfed] "sorry to say that right now it's a constraint on the network - we won't be federating with any other services (in production) for the time being. We are about to launch a federation sandbox, most of the technical work is finished, but federation opens up a lot of issues with large scale moderation that neither we nor the community are prepared to handle"
# gRegor I think this was the webring search discussion https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2023-04-29#t1682799845444300
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vikanezrimaya [snarfed]: re: community operated bluesky feeds with complete views of the network: do you have any links? You have piqued my interest in bluesky
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# bkil Soni: I could still mostly repeat myself from the last conversation. You would need to work on your idea a bit more to see its weaknesses and then perhaps blog about it. The size of an index is usually in the same ball park as the data itself. Thus, all participating indexers would need to refetch (="crawl") the content index of everyone else that is even less efficient than recrawling only the modified or new pages based on a site map or atom feed.
# vladimyr ^ truly great and thoughtful/thought-provoking read, you could add culture sucks to that list too
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# Soni bkil: thankfully we have RFC 3229
# Soni omz13: nobody cares about the protocol, since it's merely an implementation detail
# Soni anyone who says the protocol matters is someone who only cares about programmers
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# bkil Laugh all you want, but if your protocol is not open at least in some sense of the word, "all your data belong to US". I.e., I couldn't implement my own frontend (let alone mesh-first backend) for Facebook, because they won't let me.
# bkil Despite the fact I would like to change quite a few things about it, improve its compatibility, performance, color scheme, hide useless things, etc. The last guy who tried to simulate that with an aftermarket extension was erased completely for life without appeal.
# Soni use AI to build your extension, we heard that makes it legal
# Soni but also, the context is mastodon. mastodon does have an open protocol.
# Soni email is a crap-ass protocol and it still hasn't been replaced
# Soni the last big improvement in email was TLS. the second last was MIME.
# [snarfed] vikanezrimaya: https://atproto.com/community/projects
# vikanezrimaya [snarfed]: oooh, interesting! but seems like you were mentioning what is called App Views, and I meant Big Graph Services. So I'm gonna restate my question: are there people around bluesky that are planning to run independent BGS instances? because that seems like bluesky's weak point regarding decentralization
# vikanezrimaya I know federation isn't online yet, but I wonder if people are already planning on experimenting with this.
# vikanezrimaya Honestly considering the code already seems to be open source, why wouldn't somebody just put up a small-ish test network on their own hardware as an alternative to staging.bsky.app PDS and BGS?
# vikanezrimaya The feed generator stuff is extremely interesting though
# [snarfed] and yes there are already multiple independent PDSes online, based on Bluesky's code, eg https://stems.social/ , and independent implementations in progress (mine is one)
# [snarfed] there are already a number of complete, realtime updated archives of all of Bluesky's data even without BGSes being fully specced out and federated, eg https://bsky.jazco.dev/
# [snarfed] also, more on their feed generators: https://blueskyweb.xyz/blog/3-30-2023-algorithmic-choice
# [snarfed] the disappointing flipside of all this is that it sounds like turning on federation may take longer than we hoped. https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2023-06-15#t1686797968044800
# vikanezrimaya wow, that graph at bsky.jazco.dev is impressive. i'm starting to drool
# vikanezrimaya i wonder if there's a faster way to get invites than a waitlist — maybe someone here knows?
# vikanezrimaya (if you do, can I ask for an invite?)
# vikanezrimaya [snarfed]: oops, forgot to ping you
# capjamesg vikanezrimaya I think I still have an invite I can give out if you need one.
# vikanezrimaya @capjamesg#4492 can you dm me in discord? vikanezrimaya.xyz -- apparently I just got a prompt for a username change
# vikanezrimaya also that's a domain of mine
# vikanezrimaya it even links to my old website
# vikanezrimaya sent you a friend request on discord
# 
[tantek] here's an AP-boostable permalink to that twittermigration fail blog post apparently from the author: https://finecity.social/notes/9fwhw09aor (running Calckey according to the view source!)
# Loqi [preview] [Bloonface] I decided to choose violence.
An essay on why the #TwitterMigration failed, some things to learn for the next time it's a possibility, and some thoughts on things that the #RedditMigration has done differently, especially with #Kbin.
https://blog.b...
# vikanezrimaya Okay, now that I'm not completely missing out on bluesky fun: is there already a way to POSSE to bluesky? aaronpk seems to have some mentions of bluesky in quill, and some posts look suspiciously like posse 😝
# Loqi Bluesky is a project run by Jay Graber and initially proposed by Jack Dorsey, former Twitter CEO, to “develop an open and decentralized standard for social media – The goal is for Twitter to ultimately be a client of this standard.” https://indieweb.org/Bluesky
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# 
[manton] Shameless plug: http://Micro.blog can POSSE to Bluesky from any feed. 🙂
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omz13 Soni when I talked about "the protocol sucks" I was summarizing what was in bloonface's post; and, yes, most users could not care about protocols... well, until things take too long, or means things need to run on bigger machines, or they have big pipes to cope with highly inefficient payloads, and then, suddenly they might care (or probably not, until it hits them in their wallet which seems to be a real trigger)
# [tantek] [manton] could you add a brief summary of how to setup POSSEing from a http://micro.blog account to Bluesky here? https://indieweb.org/Bluesky#How_to_POSSE (maybe in a new paragraph or subsection if you prefer)
# [tantek] !tell capjamesg I put pyatproto here because of its name: https://indieweb.org/AT_Protocol#Libraries — however if you think it will be "Bluesky only" for the near feature (3-6 months?) perhaps we should move it to the /Bluesky page for now, until there's more information about how soon it might support "arbitrary" AT Proto instances (which few if any exist AFAIK)
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# [snarfed] I'd love to carve out some time to do https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/1453
# Loqi capjamesg: [tantek] left you a message 1 hour, 32 minutes ago: I put pyatproto here because of its name: https://indieweb.org/AT_Protocol#Libraries — however if you think it will be "Bluesky only" for the near feature (3-6 months?) perhaps we should move it to the /Bluesky page for now, until there's more information about how soon it might support "arbitrary" AT Proto instances (which few if any exist AFAIK)
# vikanezrimaya capjamesg: nyan-nyan! ✨
# vikanezrimaya capjamesg: https://recognize-anything.github.io/ this one?
# 
capjamesg Here's the GitHub repo: https://github.com/xinyu1205/recognize-anything
# capjamesg The captioning models I have seen take up a fair bit of RAM (in the traditional computing sense), but they can identify a vast range of things. Whereas object detection models can generally identify fewer things, unless you use a large, general model like Grounding DINO or Facebook's Detic.
# vikanezrimaya I played around with RAM on Huggingface, and it's... decent, I guess? It seems to produce somewhat coherent result, though human tagging will obviously outperform it in regards to quality and creativity of an alt-text caption.
# vikanezrimaya The tag2text RAM model seems promising for alt-text generation, as it produces coherent text as opposed to raw keywords.
# vikanezrimaya 4.48? that sounds small. I wonder if this means I can feasibly use it on a CPU w/o quantization (I heard it's the magic trick that makes models smaller but less accurate)
# vikanezrimaya My laptop has 16GB of RAM, so maybe I'll be able to run it. But my server only has 4 gigabytes, so I guess if I want to roll this out, I'll have to buy myself a bigger server
# vikanezrimaya [manton]: re: micro.blog bluesky support: I assume it's a paid feature or?... what's the workflow? do I POSSE to micro.blog which does POSSE to bluesky?
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# vikanezrimaya i hate python
# vikanezrimaya i can't reproduce the environment locally
# vikanezrimaya and docker is a kludge, not a solution
# vikanezrimaya i feel hungry now
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# vikanezrimaya also I read the code, and yes it can theoretically run on CPU instead of CUDA
# [manton] @vikanezrimaya Yes, POSSE used to be kind of separate but to simplify things it’s just rolled into the $5/month hosting, even if you don’t need hosting. You basically add RSS feeds to your account and then from there http://Micro.blog will pull them in and send them off to other services like Bluesky.
# vikanezrimaya sounds somewhat complicated. might be just easier and more fun to implement just enough atp to speak to a pds myself
# vikanezrimaya thanks for the plug tho, this inspires me because now I know it's not only possible, but has been done at least twice
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# capjamesg I like this OCR model: https://github.com/clovaai/donut
# capjamesg Here it is! https://github.com/JaidedAI/EasyOCR
# vikanezrimaya Just got my first Bluesky post using curl! Kittybox support for Bluesky may be easier than I thought.
# vikanezrimaya I just need to implement logging into Bluesky, token management and also posting.
# vikanezrimaya Also bluesky's docs are outdated lol
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# [manton] If it helps, I also wrote this blog post with a bunch of Bluesky RPC examples. Should have everything for basic posting including image upload, inline links, etc. https://www.manton.org/2023/04/29/getting-started-with.html
# vikanezrimaya [manton]: looks useful, thank you!
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# sknebel woah, Google is selling off Google Domains?! https://9to5google.com/2023/06/15/google-domains-squarespace/
# capjamesg Wow.
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# capjamesg I have a strange issue with my blog. The sparkline post count is non-deterministic.
# capjamesg It isn't accurate, either.
# capjamesg I have no idea why!
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[schmarty] Google divesting of their domain service is verrrry interesting
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# gRegor Google Domains << [https://support.google.com/domains/answer/13689670 About the Squarespace purchase of Google Domains registrations] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20230615215511/https://support.google.com/domains/answer/13689670 archived])
# Loqi ok, I added "[https://support.google.com/domains/answer/13689670 About the Squarespace purchase of Google Domains registrations] ([http://web.archive.org/web/20230615215511/https://support.google.com/domains/answer/13689670 archived])" to the "See Also" section of /Google_Domains https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=88302&oldid=87529
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