#dev 2023-07-05

2023-07-05 UTC
jan6, tei_, [tantek], jjuran, [aciccarello], [KevinMarks]1, [pfefferle], btrem and win0err joined the channel
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bkil vladimyr: For your information, your messages didn't get through. There's usually message loss every day now that I follow it more closely https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2023-07-04
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[KevinMarks] [snarfed] - it is a little tricky as you can compose types, but if you're looking for webmention purposes what you say there makes sense. In some respects this could be the opposite of what Jacky was asking for yesterday (a webmention of part of a post) - If I write a long article that quotes and discusses several other posts, then the webmention sent may be more useful if the source URL has a fragment that identifies the
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[KevinMarks] relevant part of the post. Another example would be a review post, which is by definition a note and a rating, so analogous to a note and a like at once, depending on the rating scale. In your case you're mapping through to more limited verbs on the silos though.
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[jacky] snarfed: I'm torn on this because I don't have a particular use case for that
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[jacky] but I can see it in the future in the case of literature where I want to highlight a quote but also mark the quote itself as something I like
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[KevinMarks] would that be a cite combined with a like-of ? It's a review in a broader sense than an h-review
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[jacky] that's a great way to put it, yeah!
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bkil @vladimyr:matrix.org (2023-07-05T08:56:30) Maybe you did something wrong that resulted in the indieweb placing a shadow ban on you?
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[KevinMarks] AP but not yet, says js:dr Mosseri https://www.threads.net/t/CuRtcYTNY3J
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[KevinMarks] https://social.wake.st/@liaizon/110661481953092509
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Loqi [preview] [wakest is a 🦎] every profile on Threads already has the instance tag 'threads.net' after the username and when you click it "Soon, you'll be able to follow and interact with people on other fediverse platforms, like Mastodon. They can also find people on Threads us... https://cdn.masto.host/socialwakest/media_attachments/files/110/661/473/437/881/486/original/5ce59ce7224d02d6.png
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[KevinMarks] Not sure if this counts as criticism of schema https://twitter.com/JarnoVanDriel/status/1676573252674637824?s=20
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sknebel bkil: the matrix bridge (I assume you are talking about that?) has been wonky, so messages not syncing "just happens" ... Part of why libera shutting it down
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[snarfed] [KevinMarks] [jacky] I'm all for webmention receivers handling multiple things per post! the key difference is that they're end consumers. I was thinking more about tools that convert or relay them, especially ones like Bridgy and Bridgy Fed that have side effects
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[snarfed] since each thing in a post will likely result in a separate translated operation in the destination, eg post vs like vs follow, each of which can fail independently
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bkil @vlady
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bkil vladimyr (2023-07-05T14:24:47) Please join the meta channel, because this is off-topic in #dev. Also, try to register your matrix username through the Libera IRC bridge. I think that's the only difference between the two of us. https://matrix-org.github.io/matrix-appservice-irc/latest/usage#authentication
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[tantek] Interesting explicit note about migration from Threads: https://mastodon.social/@fediversereport/110661443199440406
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Loqi [preview] [Fediverse Report] Adam Mosseri, head of Instagram, posted a message on #Threads explaining why Meta is committed to adding #ActivityPub support. The reason he lists is the ability to take your social graph to another server.https://www.threads.net/t/CuRtcYTNY3J/ https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/110/661/443/006/876/300/original/0acf2613554f5fd4.png
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aaronpk very curious how they plan on implementing that given the relatively fragile state of account migration in activitypub today
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[tantek] indeed. maybe they'll contribute test
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[tantek] tests*
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sknebel the only facebook "spec" I can think of is OpenGraph. :P
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aaronpk i think more is needed than just tests
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[tantek] sure. tests would be a good start
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shreyanjain[m] their reasons for adopting activitypub has pretty similar wording to how bluesky describes itself :O
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shreyanjain[m] of course, it wouldn't help for them to implement at protocol instead, since that has neither federation or account migration at the moment
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shreyanjain[m] they also only say you can transfer your audience, not your existing posts, so it's just like Mastodon's migration
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[snarfed] I expect these ideas from Meta are more about big picture openness and interop than fine grained feature analyses of eg identity or data portability in AP specifically
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[snarfed] we're obviously right about those details right now, but they're also right that supporting AP is a _huge_ step for any Meta product, and should rightly be welcomed
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[snarfed] (tech politics notwithstanding)
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shreyanjain[m] it's pretty interesting that their pitch for threads seems to be that it will prevent you from being trapped in a walled garden, which is the opposite of what meta products are usually known for
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[snarfed] to be fair, that's been true of pretty much all major social media silos
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[tantek] shreyanjain[m] — re: "not your existing posts" <-- no one supports that yet, this is a known limitation in AP/Masto
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[tantek] what is post migration
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Loqi post migration is the ability to move your posts from one service or server to another, possibly by both exporting them into a static form from their existing location and importing them to a new location, or by a form of direct data transfer between servers, ideally with the old location supporting permalink redirects for some period, and an aspect of data portability & migration in general https://indieweb.org/post_migration
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shreyanjain[m] yup
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[jacky] would need a whole SWOT test
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[jacky] or ACID
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[jacky] that thing when you do a proof of concept and keep doing it to make sure it doesn't break lol
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[snarfed] yup. decoupling identity from server as part of the protocol is clearly more effective. just like domains in DNS are decoupled from your hosting provider.
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[tantek] DNS++
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Loqi DNS has 1 karma over the last year
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kirbo_kirbstar Hi, is there any notable difference between inserting an image with the whole URL vs part of the URL in an HTML file?
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kirbo_kirbstar Or is that just a custom to use the shorter url?
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[snarfed] what do you mean by part of a URL or shorter URL?
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kirbo_kirbstar Lemme try to get an example
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[tantek] part of a URL as in a relative URL?
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kirbo_kirbstar So like instead of writing src="https://www.google.com/images/branding/googlelogo/1x/googlelogo_color_272x92dp.png"> you can instead just write "/images/branding/googlelogo/1x/googlelogo_color_272x92dp.png
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kirbo_kirbstar Basically as long as the image is hosted on the same site, you can omit the "https://www.websitename.com"
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kirbo_kirbstar Why do people do that though?
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kirbo_kirbstar Cuz if you're just copying and pasting the link, wouldn't it take more time to remove the domain name then?
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[snarfed] many people often aren't copying and pasting the link. and/or they're generating HTML via code. relative links can help maintainability, eg if/when you move to a new domain, or change higher level path segments (like directories), you don't necessarily have to change URLs if they're relative
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kirbo_kirbstar oh that's a good idea. I was leaving the entire link just to make hotlinking easier in case I ever need to preview the code on another thing, but yeah that idea of making everything relative sounds a lot better
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[snarfed] it does require all consumers to handle relative links though. they generally do, but not always. eg we're actively working through this for relative URLs in e-* mf2 content, https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/38 , still unresolved
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Loqi [preview] [willnorris] #38 resolve relative URLs in e-* html
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[tantek] need an emoji for standard / specification
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[tantek] going with :toolbox: unless someone has a better idea
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[snarfed] 📜
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[snarfed] for what?
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[will] I also intentionally use relative links to that I can run a dev version of my site on localhost, and have all the links work locally, rather than linking out to or pulling images from the production site.
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[tantek] [snarfed] already using the scroll 📜 for chat archives
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[tantek] for /Sidebar link to spec.indieweb
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[tantek] there we go, added
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gRegor Heh, I guess public comments/pressure can help defer site deaths (very minimally). Harvard Blogs is giving them an extra month. http://web.archive.org/web/20230705183640/http://blogs.harvard.edu/blog/2023/03/02/blogs-harvard-edu-shutting-down/
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gRegor Updated on /site-deaths
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sebbu yeah, i had a similar issue a few days ago when i got link to a dead microsoft blog
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sebbu the user had at one point moved to its own site, then died ~8 years ago
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sebbu but someone had archived his site (even if it's missing almost? all pictures)
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[Jo] Does anyone have some simple and easy resources for displaying webmentions on your website?
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capjamesg [Jo] webmention.io!
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capjamesg What is webmention.io?
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Loqi webmention.io is an open-source project and hosted service for receiving webmentions and pingbacks on behalf of your indieweb site https://indieweb.org/webmention.io
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[Jo] Thanks
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capjamesg That's what I use!
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