#dev 2023-11-23

2023-11-23 UTC
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[jacky] hm dang now this does kinda pose another problem
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gRegor maybe can discuss some on Friday's create day
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gRegor happy to experiment
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[jacky] heh yeah I think I'm going to noodle on this tbh
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[jacky] but will bring it up!
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GWG [jacky], gRegor: Three way breakout session?
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[jacky] sure!
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gRegor I'm game. Yeah zoom has Breakout rooms now which can be handy
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GWG [jacky]++
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Loqi [jacky] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (40 in all channels)
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GWG gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (72 in all channels)
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[jacky] _one_ thing I think about with Wordpress is the difficulty of integration (because it requires theme editing and that requires someone having a site to know more beyond their Wordpress panel)
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[jacky] and that's not necessarily unique to it - it's the papering over the IndieWeb specs and interactivity that http://micro.blog provides as well tbh
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[jacky] this makes me think about /sidefiles again because that _could_ help one make a plugin that served either MF2+JSON or MF2+HTML pages for Wordpress sites
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[jacky] and would help people transition if _they_ could (would be a pluralistic approach to how people engage one of the requirements of IW engagement)
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gRegor I think the indieweb WP plugin does offer a sidefile url for parsed mf2
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[tantek] what is text/mf2+html
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Loqi text/mf2+html is an experimental MIME type for an HTML file with microformats2 https://indieweb.org/text/mf2%2Bhtml
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[jacky] hm then I prob need to do more fetching for that
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[tantek] ^ should be discoverable with rel=alternate
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[tantek] same as feed discovery
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[jacky] I know this is the space of conneg++
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Loqi conneg has -24 karma in this channel over the last year (-32 in all channels)
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[jacky] 😉
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[jacky] omg lol
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[tantek] nope nope nope conneg--
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Loqi conneg has -25 karma in this channel over the last year (-33 in all channels)
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gRegor lol
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[tantek] this is a separate file
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[jacky] I was not expecting -24 haha
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gRegor what is rel-alternate
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[tantek] separate URL
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Loqi rel=alternate is a way to indicate that a hyperlink links to an alternate representation of the current page https://indieweb.org/rel-alternate
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[tantek] not same URL but different mimetype (which is what conneg does)
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[jacky] but okay, I'm def in favor of a separate file too
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gRegor It will be negative as long as [snarfed] is around XD
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[jacky] separate URL
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[tantek] that's how we avoid conneg
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gRegor Aaron has them, e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/2018/07/12/10/indieauth.json (from /rel-alternate)
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Loqi [preview] [Aaron Parecki] Pretty great to see a new self-hosted IndieAuth server! Congrats @nilshauk, and great project name! https://twitter.com/nilshauk/status/1017485223716630528
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gRegor what is application/mf2+json
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[jacky] then that's something for readers (or anything attempting to parse a page for mf2) to consider - checking for rel=alternative
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Loqi application/mf2+json is an experimental MIME type for the canonical JSON output of a microformats2 parser that is explicitly consumed by at one implementation (XRay), and published by at least two (Granary, WordPress mf2 feed plugin) https://indieweb.org/application/mf2%2Bjson
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gRegor That's what I was looking for
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gRegor Advertising the parsed mf2 json, not just mf2 HTML
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GWG [jacky]: We have a better solution than a sidefile.
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[jacky] oh yeah that'd be _way_ better, just parsing JSON
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[jacky] oh?
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aaronpk the downside of consuming json from a site is you have to do a ton more error checking to validate that it is even remotely valid mf2 json, vs consuming the html with your own microformats parser where you know the result is valid mf2 json even if the data might still be wrong
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Loqi aaronpk: [schmarty] left you a message 2 days, 4 hours ago: looks like p3k/xray needs a new packagist release? v1.12.0 is current but tied to mf2/mf2 ^0.4. that conflicts w/ indieweb/indieauth-client-php which requires mf2/mf2 ^0.5. p3k/xray dev-main is up-to-date on deps tho'
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aaronpk oh yeah there's a bunch of stuff in xray after 1.12, i wonder why i didn't do a release
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[jacky] I'm going to ask a question and it's okay to say "no don't ask that again" lol
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[jacky] but would having a jsonschema for mf2 help here?
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rubenwardy Zod is nice
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aaronpk https://github.com/Zegnat/microformats2-json-schema
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[jacky] I haven't used it in any prod context so I wouldn't know if doing that would be a perf hit
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rubenwardy Zod is a Ts library for validating data and getting types
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Loqi [preview] [Zegnat] microformats2-json-schema: A JSON Schema for verifying microformats2 JSON parser output / documents.
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[jacky] oh interesting and this is pretty flexible too
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[jacky] well I'll keep this for a rainy day; if I do end up parsing the JSON, I could optionally run this and do some numbers for folks
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[jacky] _or_ I could use commoncrawl
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GWG [jacky]: WordPress has a built in API
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[jacky] oh right, I was thinking of something that was agnostic from Wordpress but could be used/advertised by Wordpress to encourage adoption elsewhere
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[jacky] but I could be focusing a bit too much on _adoption_)
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GWG [jacky]: Webmentions on WordPress now goes, MF2, Rest API, JSON-LD, and Meta tags
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GWG So, no one on a WordPress site necessarily has to worry we won't get any citation level data
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[tantek] that is a really good reason aaronpk (for looking for mf2 instead of mf2json
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[tantek] )
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[jacky] another protocol with ambition https://willowprotocol.org/
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[KevinMarks] sidenotes << https://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2023/09/12/nuclear-anchored-sidenotes/
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Loqi Sorry, I couldn't find a page named "sidenotes" or similar
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[KevinMarks] marginalia << anchored side notes https://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2023/09/12/nuclear-anchored-sidenotes/
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Loqi ok, I added "anchored side notes https://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2023/09/12/nuclear-anchored-sidenotes/" to the "See Also" section of /marginalia https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=90776&oldid=80370
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[jacky] this is something I'll need because once I start writing more long form, I _need_ them lol
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[jacky] but #indieweb
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