#dev 2023-11-29

2023-11-29 UTC
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[tantek] that would be a start!
barnaby, jonnybarnes, oenone, trwnh, Xe, rhiaro, rrix, GWG, kleb, Soni, alephalpha0, IWDiscord, superkuh, Guest9641, pharalia, jjuran, [0x3b0b], geoffo and [snarfed] joined the channel
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gRegor Speaking of ticketing, my staging site tries to exchange received tickets now. Going to make a few more updates before I write about it on my site.
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GWG I just need to get some PRs reviewed so I can move forward.
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gRegor Why?
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GWG I made some major changes and I don't want to have merge conflicts
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[jacky] what is RSS Bridge
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Loqi RSS-Bridge is a project that strives to give sites feeds even if they do not offer those themselves https://indieweb.org/RSS-Bridge
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[jacky] just saw this with video proxies as well
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[jacky] randomly as I was looking to set up munin on my server and came across this project on a list of self-hosted stuff
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[tantek] [snarfed] re: Bridgy Fed #667, why not p-summary instead for plain text fallback for "unknown" post types
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gRegor Some discussion of that in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/332
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gRegor I'm still in favor, if BF ignored trying to use Mastodon's odd usage of `summary` for cw/spoilers
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[snarfed] for Bridgy classic, we couldn't use summary because it's per silo. https://brid.gy/about#silo-content
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[tantek] the last time we discussed this in-person at IWS in Portland in maybe 2018 with [manton] etc. we decided that 'summary' worked as plain text fallback for "unknown" post types
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[snarfed] theoretically we'd do the same thing in BF, but not sure
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[tantek] I'm at the point where I think Mastodon's (ab)use of summary for content-warning is a violation of Activity Streams (2) semantics / the spec
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[tantek] so implementations should work around it
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[tantek] i.e. implementations should treat "summary" as it is interoperably specified in ATOM, h-entry, AS2, and not the way Mastodon misuses it
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[tantek] and anything posting / federating to Mastodon should do the translation necessary to Mastodon-specific properties etc.
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[tantek] btw I also blame this more on the difficulty of extending AS2 in practice than on Mastodon itself.
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[snarfed] nice idea ideally, but the "translation to Mastodon" requires introspecting every inbox delivery server to sniff whether it's Mastodon
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[tantek] oof
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[tantek] do other AS2/AP implementations treat "summary" as content-warning?
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[tantek] like has AS2 been permanently broken in this way?
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[jacky] I'd imagine they'd do _because_ of mastodon (b/c clients would opt for it to keep "compatbility")
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[tantek] OTOH what's the downside of slamming summary into a Mastodon instance without any content?
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gRegor Maybe I'm not thinking of this right, but I was thinking BF would look for e-content and fallback to p-summary if that wasn't found, sending the result as it normally sends e-content.
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gRegor That wouldn't interfere with Masto's use of summary?
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[tantek] that could work yes
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[tantek] and *should* work for "new" / "interesting" post types that lack an explicit "content" property by design (because their content is in or implied by other properties)
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[tantek] what is PTD
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Loqi Post Type Discovery specifies an algorithm for consuming code to determine the type of a post by its content properties and their values rather than an explicit “post type” property, thus better matched to modern post creation UIs that allow combining text, media, etc in a variety of ways without burdening users with any notion of what kind of post they are creating https://indieweb.org/PTD
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[tantek] looks like I concluded something similar in PTD: "Else if the post has a "summary" property with a non-empty value, Then use its first non-empty value as the content"
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[0x3b0b] I imagine that most, if not all, implementations that intend either to interact with Mastodon or to _act mostly like_ Mastodon probably use the Mastodon summarily content-warned convention. Microblogpub does, or at least I see things content-warned as the posters seem to have intended and can post in kind, I believe. I'm curious, now that you have brought it up, whether the convention pervades to less directly similar kinds of servers, such as the...
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[0x3b0b] ... reddit-likes, which I haven't tried to use.
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[snarfed] there's the misuse of summary problem, but also there's the problem that full-size article posts just don't fit well into a microblogging format like most of the fediverse
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[snarfed] so if we always copy full content, even for articles, 1) we lose title, and 2) the UX in Mastodon and similar services is not good
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[snarfed] which is why I've been ok so far with the compromised end result UX in Mastodon of full content for notes, title and link for articles
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[tantek] you know what's worse than the UX in Mastodon for articles? the UX in Mastodon for tootstorms
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[snarfed] lol
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[tantek] so I say let Mastodon eat articles
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[jacky] <godzilla-let-them-eat-articles.GIF>
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[snarfed] and title/name? inject it on the first line?
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[0x3b0b] And that's a problem that _some_ platforms effectively just ignore, MBP included; and I don't really end up seeing the result because I only generally bother to check my own stuff from my secondary account which is on an Akkoma instance with the Mangane front-end, where, frankly, it isn't all that bad.
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[jacky] fediverse feels like a fedimess
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[snarfed] um...wat
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[tantek] lol
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[tantek] [snarfed] I'm not advocating for complex name/summary/content treatment
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[tantek] per the keep bridgy simple principle
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[jacky] what is Akkoma
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Akkoma" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Akkoma is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jacky] well here's this frontend https://github.com/BDX-town/Mangane
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[snarfed] so...discard title?
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[tantek] what's wrong with the current h-entry name/content -> AS2 name/content ?
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[tantek] what am I missing?
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Loqi [preview] [BDX-town] Mangane: Alternative frontend for Akkoma
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[jacky] doesn't masto drop `name`?
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[jacky] that'd make articles titleness in those readers (being masto-web)
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[jacky] that interface looks cool tbh
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[jacky] what is Rust
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Loqi Rust is a system programming language by Mozilla https://indieweb.org/Rust
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[jacky] Rust << [https://lib.rs/crates/webmention webmention] A crate implementing [[Webmention]] with a CLI for sending and receiving
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://lib.rs/crates/webmention webmention] A crate implementing [[Webmention]] with a CLI for sending and receiving" to the "See Also" section of /Rust https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=90897&oldid=84657
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[snarfed] right, afaik Masto etc don't display name for Note objects
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[snarfed] only for Articles
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[0x3b0b] On Fedisroot, where my Second Account is, my articles appear a lot like a very long note with the article title at the top (just under my profile header) as a link to the article on my site, or if you see it in stream with other stuff it's just truncated with a Read More.
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[0x3b0b] The Fedisroot instance also appears to let a non-logged-in user read the article in the Fedisroot interface, whereas I think some instances will automatically redirect to my site instead in that case.
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[snarfed] (and to make them show content, we'd need to convert to Notes, not Articles)
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[0x3b0b] I wonder if that means that Akkoma/Mangane doesn't handle Articles the same way as Mastodon does, or that Microblogpub federates Articles as long notes.
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[tantek] [snarfed] I'm fine with the current Mastodon showing articles as only the title/name
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[tantek] I think that's a reasonable way for their UX to handle it
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gRegor Agreed
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[fluffy] [snarfed] I just noticed that I’m getting reply webmentions for my Tumblr crossposts, e.g. https://tumblr.beesbuzz.biz/post/735220302839169024/fluffy-rambles-what-time-is-it-unstructured sent a mention to https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/7067-What-time-is-it-Unstructured-rambling-time which is pretty unexpected given the way that similar crossposts happen on other social networks. Is there something I should be doing differently?
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[fluffy] And meanwhile the notes that happened on the Tumblr entry didn’t propagate as Webmentions as I’d have expected.
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[fluffy] I see the http://brid.gy connection for Tumblr is still just for receiving webmentions as Disqus comments, and this only started very recently.
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[KevinMarks] I agree that Mastodon abuses `summary`
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[KevinMarks] this, but for standards: https://techhub.social/@tottinge/111206152704023579
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[snarfed] [fluffy] hmm! I haven't touched Bridgy's Tumblr code in a long time, I have no idea what's going on yet
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[snarfed] but Bridgy Tumblr has always done both outbound and inbound wms, https://brid.gy/about#blogs
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[snarfed] and it doesn't do backfeed, so it's expected that notes didn't flow back to your web site
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[snarfed] (Bridgy thinks of Tumblr more like a web site host than a social network silo. that's fuzzy, of course, it's really kind of both)
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[schmarty] hehehe https://www.zachleat.com/web/w3c-banner-web-component/
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[tantek] nice
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[fluffy] [snarfed] Right, makes sense, I guess it’s just surprising that I hadn’t been getting these “reply” notifications until just now. Was it maybe because of the `u-uid` fix?
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[fluffy] The first one came in after the blog post that you’d highlighted as an “edge case” after years of it having been that way.
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[snarfed] yeah, understood, I don't know why you got one for your POSSEd post but hadn't before
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[snarfed] not the u-uid fix, that was only in Bridgy Fed
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[fluffy] hm, weird
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[jacky] lmfao I love the fanfic one
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[jacky] :sigh
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[jacky] oof, forgot that there's no editing here
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[jacky] that, alone, is enough for me to get my IRC bouncer going lol
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[jacky] so I can't get my site syndicating with IndieNews
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[jacky] this is my MF2 https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjacky.wtf%2F2023%2F11%2FVUnN
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[jacky] eh well once this major update goes out, I'll be resending _all_ of my webmentions anyway lol
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[snarfed] odd, looks fine
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[jacky] 🤷 and I don't have too much info on the logs for that attempt (something I'm fixing)
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[snarfed] https://news.indieweb.org/en/submit says link not founud
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[jacky] and I'm getting a 500 doing it manually 😞
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[jacky] chunks into the backlog of things to fix later
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gRegor [jacky], aside, noticed your u-author h-card doesn't have your name inside the link so it parses your name as an empty string
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gRegor Since you're linking to /about which has a representative h-card, I think you could change that empty link to class="u-author". /authorship-spec should follow that link and find the rep h-card
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[jacky] hmmmm okay
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gRegor Not sure about the no_link_found on indienews, though, everything else looks correct in the mf2
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[jacky] pushes up the change for authorship
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[jacky] what is umani
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "umani" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "umani is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jacky] what are analytics
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Loqi analytics is the collection, analysis and reporting of a websites traffic https://indieweb.org/analytics
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[jacky] ha nvm
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[jacky] I wonder if that works for people living in the US but hosting their code _outside_ of the uS
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[jacky] *US
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[jacky] prob not heh
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[jacky] ah that was a reference to the convo in #indieweb-chat off
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[jacky] but back to the http://news.indieweb.org thing, it looks like my site responds okay (in the event it's something about how it was fetching it)
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[jacky] upside: I finally fixed my rep h-card heh https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjacky.wtf%2F
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[jacky] kinda wish there was a thing that could listen for changes to your site and alert you if something's missing
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[aciccarello] [jacky] I have some unit tests for microformats that alerts me if something has changed
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[aciccarello] Could be smarter about authorship though. Just checks a json object right now
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barnaby that’d be a fun service to build into indiewebify.me. on the first successful h-card validation where it finds an email address, it could offer to periodically check to make sure the h-card is still present and send a notification email if not
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[aciccarello] I keep meaning to look into http://indiewebify.me improvements. Too many things on my list already though.
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barnaby me too :(
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gRegor I've been working on migrating it to Slim4
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[jacky] ooooh
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gRegor https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/82
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[jacky] subscribes
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[jacky] randomly noticed that codeberg has an endpoint for activitypub? https://codeberg.org/api/swagger#/activitypub
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gRegor what is codeberg
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Loqi Codeberg is an online service offering Git repository hosting, issue trackers, code review tools, activity feeds, and wikis similar to GitHub and GitLab https://indieweb.org/Codeberg
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[tantek] [jacky] re: "wish there was a thing that could listen for changes to your site and alert you if something's missing" <-- that's for the premium version of http://IndieWebify.me 😂
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gRegor indiewebify-me Pro
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[aciccarello] indiewebify-me plus??
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capjamesg Is that a subscription plan or a one-time purchase?
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[jacky] ha tbh a one-time purchase could be something hooked up to opencollective to fund the indieweb 🙂
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[jacky] postmark has a free tier with 100 emails/mo