#dev 2024-01-29

2024-01-29 UTC
colinbate joined the channel; colinbate left the channel
#
[tantek] sounds like a great learning experience! looking forward to hearing how it goes
#
[tantek] very much interested in what subset of "most used md syntax elements" you end up implementing
#
[tantek] on another topic, per weirdwriter post in #indieweb-stream https://chat.indieweb.org/stream/2024-01-29/1706490001758500 do we need a new h-* microformat for (hierarchical) lists that do not represent a "feed" per se? just as RSS and OPML are different formats, h-feed and h-????
#
[tantek] one consuming use-case (in addition to weirdwriter's auto-updating) is to detect a blogroll or list (possibly multiple) of friends, followers, followings, subscriptions on a page like a home page distinct from feeds of information (like a post stream, event stream, recent articles/photos streams) and use that blogroll/list as a source for discovery, recommendations, vouching, following/subscribing etc.
#
[snarfed] maybe "The prevailing idea on marking up collection posts is that a collection is an h-entry that contains children h-entries." ? https://indieweb.org/collection#how_to_markup_2
#
[tantek] [snarfed] indeed, though is that sufficient to convey a distinct semantic when in the presence of other kinds of data like on a home page?
#
[tantek] or would a consuming application have to apply imperfect heuristics to find a blogroll marked up with h-entry items among content streams of h-entry?
#
[tantek] I suppose a blogroll could be an h-feed of h-card children, however that only really works for flat lists. no obvious way to convey / interpret hierarchical semantics. h-cards inside h-cards could mean so many different things
#
[tantek] even a hierarchy of nested h-feeds with h-cards only as leaf nodes could be hard to interpret
#
[tantek] also that page is for a collection of content, not a collection of people / profiles
#
[snarfed] I mean, people would be h-cards, right?
#
[snarfed] h-entry with child h-cards
#
[snarfed] but this feels like two separate questions. 1) how to mark up lists that are not feeds, 2) how to indicate the semantics of a collection/list, eg blogroll, projects, quotes, etc
#
[snarfed] 2 seems maybe less important, and less suited to mf2, unless you're saying blogrolls are special and qualitatively different from other lists
#
[tantek] since the original example named OPML, I am including an assumption of hierarchical organized subscription/following lists
#
[tantek] I am saying that perhaps lists are a broader semantic with more use-cases beyond feeds
#
[tantek] like yes it makes a sense to markup all h-feeds with <ol><li>, however it does not make sense to markup all <ol><li> with h-feed
#
[snarfed] definitely! and assuming we have consuming use cases for non-feed lists, h-entry with child items sounds like the most recent brainstorming, and a reasonable straw man
#
[tantek] what is a NAS?
#
Loqi NAS is a Network Attached Storage device, either a purpose-built computer or an embedded system which shares storage over a network https://indieweb.org/NAS
#
[tantek] is that something we would expect users to setup and use and maintain?
#
[tantek] also that page is quite light, the dfn sounds very Wikipedia-generic like, without any clear IndieWeb relevance.
#
[tantek] GWG, do you use your NAS you mentioned in #indieweb as a means of "owning your media" and if so, could you add yourself to a new "IndieWeb Examples" section on the /NAS page noting your indieweb-like usage of it?
#
GWG The NAS page doesn't have much on it yet but the definition
#
[tantek] that's my point, and hence my request for you to add yourself in a new IndieWeb Examples section summarizing your "own your media" use-case
#
[tantek] suggestion more than request really
#
[tantek] your use you noted in #indieweb seems sufficient to merit keeping the page, assuming that indieweb-relevance is documented
#
[tantek] ugh, because of the acronyms, sharing here. looks like Google/Gmail has recently become stricter about SPF or DKIM which is breaking a bunch of my indie (domain) email setup so looks like I need to migrate away from using Gmail
#
[tantek] Gmail--
#
Loqi Gmail has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (-2 in all channels)
[campegg], [Caleb_Hearth] and IWSlackGateway joined the channel
#
GWG [tantek]: I saw that
kody, [aciccarello], wagle, rerek-21 and tPoltergeist joined the channel; rerek-21 left the channel
#
[KevinMarks] That use case sounds exactly like xoxo, which is a more lightweight way of doing nested lists, and we came up with it as a counterpoint to OPML (which has some very annoying characteristics)
kody_, sebsel and tPoltergeist joined the channel
#
p​fotenhauer Hi there, can anyone help me to log in to https://xn--sr8hvo.ws/ or webmention.io via IndieAuth? I have no problems with indieauth.com but with all services that use indielogin.com. I now have a selfauth installation as authorisation_endpoint. Previously I used the indieauth.com service, which didn't work either.
#
p​fotenhauer This is in my `html` head:
#
p​fotenhauer <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="https://indieauth.com/auth" />
#
p​fotenhauer ```
#
p​fotenhauer <link rel="me" href="https://github.com/pftnhr">
#
p​fotenhauer ```
#
sknebel pfotenhauer: get rid of the <?xml encoding="UTF-8">
#
sknebel that doesnt make sense in HTML and breaks the parsing of the site
#
sknebel (the parser should probably be able to deal with it, but I'm fairly sure thats causing the problem)
#
p​fotenhauer Thank you! It really was.
tPoltergeist and [Paul_Robert_Ll] joined the channel
#
[Paul_Robert_Ll] Impressive sleuthing sknebel++
#
Loqi sknebel has 15 karma in this channel over the last year (37 in all channels)
#
sknebel (funny thing is, I'm not even sure I tested with the right parser. But Spidey sense works anyways 😅)
[jacky] joined the channel
#
[jacky] https://alternativeto.net/news/2024/1/privacy-oriented-x-front-end-nitter-is-shutting-down-following-changes-to-guest-accounts/
#
[KevinMarks] new static maps tool from Stadia https://stadiamaps.com/build-a-map/
#
aaronpk Ooh
CRISPR and jaythefox joined the channel
#
GWG Shiny
trentsk[d], CRISPR, tPoltergeist and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
[tantek] maybe we should have http://IndieWebify.me flag any ?xml as a RED error since it does break some consuming clients.
tPoltergeist, [campegg], Renfield and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
p​fotenhauer indieauth.com has no problem with this
#
aaronpk totally different HTML parser
#
p​fotenhauer Ah, ok. Are there plans to agree on a standardised format for the parsers? This could possibly make it easier to get started.
#
sknebel The standardized format is HTML. Getting HTML parsers in all languages to agree on how they treat every example of broken HTML is a laudable goal, but a bit out of our reach 😅
#
sknebel We can see if there's useful workarounds , but edge cases are always iffy
#
p​fotenhauer All right
#
sknebel (I'll see what various languages do when I get the time, I'm a bit surprised the one I tried broke on it because that one should be quite close to browser behavior
#
p​fotenhauer <body class="h-card vcard blog">
#
p​fotenhauer <main class="h-feed container">
#
p​fotenhauer ```
#
p​fotenhauer <header>...</header>
#
p​fotenhauer <article class="h-entry">
#
p​fotenhauer <header>
#
p​fotenhauer But I already have the next "problem": indiewebify.me does not find `h-entry` in my source code, although it is there:
#
p​fotenhauer <h1 class="p-name">...</h1>
#
p​fotenhauer </header>
#
p​fotenhauer <div class="e-content articleContent">...</div>
#
p​fotenhauer </article>
#
p​fotenhauer <article class="h-entry">
#
p​fotenhauer [edit] But I already have the next "problem": indiewebify.me does not find `h-entry` in my source code, although it is there:
#
p​fotenhauer <header>...</header>
#
p​fotenhauer ```
#
p​fotenhauer <body class="h-card vcard blog">
#
p​fotenhauer <main class="h-feed container">
#
p​fotenhauer <article class="h-entry">
#
p​fotenhauer <header>
#
p​fotenhauer <h1 class="p-name">...</h1>
#
p​fotenhauer </header>
#
p​fotenhauer <div class="e-content articleContent">...</div>
#
p​fotenhauer </article>
#
p​fotenhauer <article class="h-entry">
#
p​fotenhauer Got it. The `h-card` was around it.
eitilt and Renfield joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] aha, right - indiewebify doesn't look for nested items.
gRegor, CRISPR, [tantek], gRegorLove_, [Al_Abut], gxt, Scott1 and kody joined the channel