#dev 2024-03-08

2024-03-08 UTC
burley, gRegor, geoffo, [snarfed] and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[lcs] because "molly" wasn't available? 🤷
jjuran, [Ana_R], geoffo, sebbu2, [tantek], [qubyte], barnaby, samboyer, [lcs] and to2ds joined the channel
#
to2ds Or even 0xfff?
geoffo and ttybitnik joined the channel
#
[lcs] Makes even more sense
to2ds joined the channel
#
to2ds Wonder if rgb(255,255,255) was taken too? 😄
#
to2ds On a more serious note, does webmention.io remove the data record if a 404 or 410 is returned for a subsequent webmention?
#
to2ds Sent out several webmentions yesterday that were for bookmarks, but they were technically incorrect, and I'd like to try again.
[Paul_Robert_Ll], AramZS and [schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] to2ds: looks like http://webmention.io supports deletes with a 410: https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/commit/eaa399085a95a6e874c8cbeaa294639860fb92b3
geoffo, paotsaq and to2ds joined the channel
#
to2ds [schmarty]: Thank you. Can't remember where I read it (maybe the spec?) that both 404 and 410 were supported. The webmentions themselves are actually static HTML files, so I could probably default the associated web server not found rule to the 410 status code whether the actual webmention ever existed or not should they be removed for whatever reason.
#
aaronpk what is http-equiv?
#
Loqi meta http-equiv status is an HTML extension specification that adds the "Status" value to the existing meta element's http-equiv attribute as a method for representing the HTTP Status code https://indieweb.org/http-equiv
#
aaronpk you can also do that
#
to2ds aaronpk: Thank you. Appears today will be another intense learning session :)
#
aaronpk i'm 90% sure webmention.io supports that, if not it is a good feature request. but generally that's how a static site can support HTTP 410 without fiddling with the web server
#
capjamesg angelo I think you might like https://blog.cloudflare.com/harnessing-office-chaos
[Tilley] joined the channel
#
real_devastatia Here's a problem someone might find interesting. jsonfeed.org recommends that online feed readers pass a subscriber count in the user agent string when fetching a feed. Dynamically altering the UA string would be overly complicated for my setup though. Is there a standard or recommended HTTP header for that?
jacky joined the channel
#
sknebel I dont think so, afaik user agent is the most common way (predates jsonfeed)
#
jacky is there something like http-equiv for RSS?
[Joao_Paulo_Pes] joined the channel
#
real_devastatia Well, I suppose I can put the UA string on the to-do list for later, but I don't want to get sidetracked with stuff like that while I'm trying to get ready for launch.
#
real_devastatia I was thinking a GET variable even, but you never know how that may affect somebody's feed request handler.
[calumryan] and paulrobertlloyd joined the channel
#
[schmarty] real_devastatia - unless you have a clear consuming case (like you know of a popular analytics tool that knows how to look for these on more than a case-by-case basis) that seems very safe to postpone for later!
#
gRegor Ran into a downside of aggressive anti-spam on Wordpress: sending a webmention a second time seemed to get my IP flagged as spam.
#
gRegor So got a 503, didn't even accept the webmention. Ah well, tried to leave it as a comment, will see if Akismet also flags me :)
to2ds joined the channel
#
to2ds http-equiv++
#
Loqi http-equiv has 1 karma over the last year
#
to2ds indieweb.org could one day become indieweb.edu?
#
[snarfed] yeah subscriber count in User-Agent when feed fetching has been around forever with FeedBurner. it always seems like a nice hack, but niche, I don't know that much has ever come of it?
#
[snarfed] and also seems orthogonal to any specific feed format like JSON Feed
paulrobertlloyd, gxt_, jacky and barnaby joined the channel
#
[tantek] gRegor to a WP self-hosted or WP .com?
#
[tantek] to2ds what problem are you trying to solve with a .edu domain name?
#
gRegor self hosted
#
[tantek] that's concerning. sounds like something worth filing an issue on the WP Webmention Plugin for
#
gRegor It may be out of its control, like WordFence is a popular security plugin that can flag/limit interactions
[Joe_Crawford] joined the channel
#
[Joe_Crawford] I asked a few days ago about the necessity of the gist here: https://indieweb.org/WordPress_Webmention_Plugin#Automatically_approving -- it was unclear.
#
gRegor Not sure this person has that plugin, just a popular one I'm familiar with
#
[Joe_Crawford] That was in IndieWeb #indieweb-wordpress channel
#
gRegor That's a bit different, that's once the wm is in wordpress. Mine was rejected earlier in the process
#
gRegor In my limited experience, a snippet like that is still a good idea. Otherwise a lot of webmentions get caught as spam. I use https://gist.github.com/gRegorLove/8215cb9c9584b364aaf4ef2999416f56 on a friend's site
#
GWG I want to revisit the moderation code entirely.
#
GWG Because I know [pfefferle] just made a commit about it
#
GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/commit/8ecd4036517e49a92f9ec70d094d1c45f0f74c9e
#
GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/442
#
[tantek] gRegor wait were you able to do automatic endpoint discovery at least or was that blocked too?
#
gRegor Discovery worked ok. It was a 503 response when sending the source and target to it
[Fran] joined the channel
#
gRegor It was this post brought up earlier if anyone else wants to try: https://lordmatt.co.uk/technology/the-internet/all-the-active-sites-using-webmention-that-i-found-so-far-march-2024/
#
Loqi [preview] [Matthew Brown] All the (active) sites using Webmention that I found so far [March 2024] Readers with long memories will remember my post “All the (active) sites using Webmention that I find (sic) so far” – the May 2022 edition and then the June 2022 edition.... https://lordmatt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2023/12/H_IMG_9816-scaled.jpg
#
gRegor And the wp-json endpoint responded with something like "your IP has been flagged as spam/malicious"
#
gRegor I did send him a successful wm back in May 2022. interesting
#
[Joe_Crawford] It looks like that page on lordmatt co uk is returning JSON for me. Activitystream data.
#
aaronpk conneg fail?
#
[Joe_Crawford] I guess. Or a caching layer that stashed the wrong thing. I’m using plain Safari on iOS iPad. Switched to a Private window got same thing.
#
[tantek] conneg-- fail
#
Loqi conneg has -16 karma in this channel over the last year (-19 in all channels)
#
aaronpk oh is it on cloudflare?
#
[snarfed] https://github.com/Automattic/wordpress-activitypub/issues/580 strikes again
#
gRegor Think they are running the WP AP plugin
#
[tantek] 🤔
#
Loqi [preview] [uk3] #580 WordPress sometimes returns JSON to a Webbrowser instead of the HTML page.
#
gRegor conneg--
#
Loqi conneg has -17 karma in this channel over the last year (-20 in all channels)
#
gRegor haha "steps to reproduce No idea 🤷"
#
[Joe_Crawford] conneg--
#
Loqi conneg has -18 karma in this channel over the last year (-21 in all channels)
#
[Joe_Crawford] https://lordmatt.co.uk/technology/the-internet/all-the-active-sites-using-webmention-that-i-found-so-far-march-2024/?html-really querystring helped for me
#
[tantek] wait the blog post that documents sites using Webmentions itself is having trouble receiving Webmentions, did I understand that correctly?
#
[tantek] LordMatt join us and let's figure this out!
#
gRegor heh, well at least *my* webmention, this time, yes.
#
gRegor I did end up sending it twice in short succession, and my reply has 3 links in it, so I was guessing it got flagged by something as spam, but just a guess.
#
gRegor And none of the links were about online gambling, promise
#
gRegor indiemap and indieweb.org links, https://gregorlove.com/2024/03/awesome-heres-a-few/
#
Loqi [preview] [gRegor Morrill] Awesome! Here's a few more good sources: indiemap, a 2017 crawl of over 2300 sites. The indieweb.org chat names is a self-selecting list of community members and links to their sites. Not all of them support Webmention, but a good portion of them pro...
[campegg] joined the channel
#
gRegor LordMatt is an acquaintance of mine from the NucleusCMS dev forums, we exchanged a couple webmentions May 2022 so I know it's worked at some point. Encouraged him to check out an HWC but don't know if he's been to HWC EU yet
#
gRegor what is openmentions
#
Loqi Open Mentions is a syndication service organized into topics to help with content discovery https://indieweb.org/openmentions
#
gRegor he also set up that
jacky joined the channel
#
[tantek] This looks interesting, both as a substitute for Twitter embeds, and a project to contribute to (mf2 etc.) https://github.com/FixTweet/FxTwitter
#
gRegor Hmm, and I got a 503 just trying to send a wm to Joe. Wonder if my site IP is on a list. I used the form on his page and it sent OK.
#
gRegor Need to expand my logging, don't have much beyond the 503
#
gRegor [Joe_Crawford], do you have WordFence or a similar plugin that might return that?
#
[Joe_Crawford] I do have wordfence yes. And Akismet.
#
[Joe_Crawford] Your comment showed up
#
gRegor Wonder if wordfence has any logs related to me
#
gRegor Only after I used the form on the bottom of the page
#
gRegor When my site tried to send it directly (lazy cron), got 503 service unavailable