#dev 2024-05-19

2024-05-19 UTC
amyiscoolz, geoffo, PuercoPop, jeremycherfas and [Al_Abut] joined the channel
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capjamesg aaronpk news organizations could be an audience for FedCM: https://rubenerd.com/paywalls-on-stuff-i-pay-for/
barnaby, [Jo], barnabywalters, barnabyw, box464, geoffo, gerben, nertzy, uje, [Joe_Crawford], gRegor, laker, [Ros], [tantek], jeremycherfas and morganwebdev joined the channel
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[tantek] morganwebdev, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-sgml-wg/1997May/0079.html is a classic of mistaken assumptions
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[tantek] This quote is the winner: "It was pointed out that if adopt the draconian policy, and then at some later point decide that error recovery should be allowed in some or all circumstances, we can relax it." HAHAHAHAH and that never happened.
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Loqi [tantek]: lol
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morganwebdev morganwebdev
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[tantek] morganwebdev++
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Loqi morganwebdev has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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morganwebdev Ok! So what I am hearing is partly, that my reading of history was not off base
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morganwebdev I was 8 at the time
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[tantek] yeah there were a couple of phases to it, but you've got the gist
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[tantek] there were the XML vs HTML wars
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[tantek] then there were the XHTML vs HTML wars
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[tantek] guess who went 2 for 2?
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[tantek] XML couldn't even hold its own as a "just for APIs" format. JSON came along later and demolished it there too.
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morganwebdev Fascinating, interesting to think about
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morganwebdev So do you think the general point about error tolerance is interesting or persuasive? Im just gonna make a blog post about every html element and write what I know about it basically
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morganwebdev So far 2-3 :)
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[tantek] morganwebdev, the general point about error tolerance is interesting because I believe the takeaway lesson is differences in desired (attempted) eventual scale of adoption, and forgiving/fault-tolerant technologies & architectures vs. draconian/fragile technologies & architectures.
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[tantek] The latter is why eventually the JS piles of cards will come crashing down
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capjamesg morganwebdev One piece of feedback: A brief intro sentence that describes the purpose of the series would be great, or a separate intro post that explains your goals. I felt like I was missing a bit of context before diving into reading the post.
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morganwebdev ! Great Idea
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capjamesg I have wanted to see more writing on HTML and you're making it happen. You have a spark and I'm curious to hear what ignited it 🙂
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capjamesg Also, you may enjoy: https://jamesg.blog/2024/03/22/html/
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Loqi [preview] HTML's readability, robustness, and intuitiveness
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capjamesg Perhaps the quoted resources will be of inspiration, too.
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morganwebdev "We arrived at the topic of why HTML -- and more broadly the web -- won."
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morganwebdev Great stuff there
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morganwebdev The word "slop" has come up a few times in recent discourse about generative content. I recently heard one conference speaker talk about how content is "shovelled" at you on so many platforms.
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morganwebdev The quotes about HTML being sloppy seem interesting in hindsight
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morganwebdev "You have a spark" capjamesg. - I can give a few details of the mood. I have deactivated 8+ slack workspace accounts in recent weeks, seen and encountered things in the creative agency web dev space that make me want to think about revitalizing old ways without seeking nostalgia
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morganwebdev I started working with Eleventy to get those four 100's on lighthouse and really fast web performance metrics
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morganwebdev I want every page on the series to perform really well
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morganwebdev I think Google's AI search rollout of that feature is what gives me frustrated energy to make my own website more
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morganwebdev Whats the best IRC client for MacOS? Any ideas?
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pcarrier I like quassel because I want my IRC connections to be persistent on my personal server, so I can use it in client-server mode
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bmm I am using Quassel
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morganwebdev_ Ok this is maybe the first time Ive used IRC in like over a decade and it fits with my mood
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morganwebdev [tantek] Lets says I was motivated by a goal. Partly altruistic, partly selfish, partly just a good use of volunteer time. The goal is to contribute to HTML. I know that HTML5 is a sort of buzz term for newer versions of HTML, but lets say, where would the most fertile grounds be to contribute today?
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[tantek] ooof that is a very hard question, and I'm quite in the middle of things like that.
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[tantek] in short, there's a lot to learn about what HTML can currently do, before being informed enough to contribute specific technical proposals
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[tantek] that being said, there's a user / use-case side of it which can use contributions immediately by all levels of web user and developer, the Web We Want project
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[tantek] what is web we want
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Loqi The web we want may refer to The Web We Want (webwewant.fyi) independent website & community, the past 2014-2017 site webwewant.mozilla.org, 2014 Web We Want Festival or The Web We Want video, or 2013 Mozilla Summit “Web We Want” sessions https://indieweb.org/web_we_want
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[tantek] the first one in that list
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reillypascal Hi! I'm testing webmentions on my site using this blog post: https://reillyspitzfaden.com/blog/05-17-2024
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reillypascal I'm using webmention.io, and I'm testing it here: https://webmention.rocks/receive/1/5e0fdcc5a3b2f910ad37d4118b072754
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Loqi [preview] [Webmention Rocks!] Receiver Test #1
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reillypascal It passes receiver test 2 (sends a proper error message), but not receiver test 1
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reillypascal I have this tag in the head: <link rel="webmention" href="https://webmention.io/reillyspitzfaden.com/webmention" />
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reillypascal Any suggestions?